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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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Comments
One other factor continues to weigh on the resolve of the Detroit automakers to carry out their diesel-pickup plans: the cost of diesel fuel remains stubbornly high in relation to gasoline. Although diesels are expected to return about 25 percent better fuel economy than a comparably-powered gasoline engine, diesel fuel continues to be priced markedly more than 25 percent higher than gasoline at the retail pump. If the fuel-economy advantage of diesel is erased by the cost of the fuel, the automakers believe even fewer customers will opt to lay out the considerable extra cost for the diesel-engine option"
Diesel Pickups Dumped By Detroit? (AutoObserver)
I am ready to replace my Dodge Dakota (semi-hemi V8) with a Dak powerd with a 4-cylinder detroit diesel. Dodge has manufactured these things in Brazil for a long time... all they have to to is bring them to North America!
I want a pickup truck which is diesel... but NOT full-sized and NOT designed for raw pulling abilities. VW used to build the Rabbit-Pickup in Latrobe Pennslyvania. Toyota used to sell small diesel pickups too.
I also question the use of the words "comparitivly powered gasoline engine"... just what does this mean? Deisels are not really big on horsePower, they rely on TORQUE to motivate the vehicle. Comparing the power between gasoline and diesel is just plain stupid.
My VW Jetta TDI is rated at 90 HorsePower.... but can easilly out-accellerate a gasoline engine with same displacement engine.
As they say -- > People buy horsepower... but drive torque.
That is because people in this country are not educated to the pleasure of driving a modern diesel vehicle. Once you drive one it is hard to go back to a gas engine. Especially a little 4 banger screaming gas engine. Never again for me.
Gas is for the masses...
He no longer seems to post on www.Edmunds.com !?
I also would like to see him do a hypermiling gig on a diesel (Honda Accord). He of course made it famous for a 59 mpg on a gasser.
With NO real hypermileage techniques, it was literally a no brainer to get 59 mpg @ 75 mph with bursts to 80 mph on a past 3 state and from a foreign country trip (from Vancouver BC, CN), in a 03 Jetta TDI.
link title
..."Honda Civic Least Expensive Vehicle to Own Over Five Years"...
but lower on the decision tree, coulda would shoulda been a DIESEL (Honda Civic DX-VP 4 dr Sedan ????
Well, if I were in the market for a new daily-driver, absolutely nothing. I test-drove a 335i automatic and 335d back-back. The 335d was just plain better for what I would use it for.
The torque was available everywhere. Shift action was better than the 335i. And acceleration was just as strong at full-tilt.
Just a more readily-available powerband than any car I've ever driven. It takes less right pedal to get it to move, and it doesn't hunt for gears as much. Would make a phenominal daily driver.
I would definitly consider buying this car because of that more than just the economic factors.
Agreed
Jose
PS: The owner of a 335d coupe for almost a year now. My pleasure.
Oh, rub it in our amigo. You probably have a small diesel PU truck also that gets 45 MPG. I guess I could retire over there. What would a nice small wine vineyard in Spain cost me?
Indeed, it wouldn't be a bad occupation to take care of a small vineyard after retirement. I really don't know how much the cost would be, but may be the crisis would help.
Regards,
Jose
Torques a Lot, Emits a Little
BMW 335d
Mark was very low key and not pushy in the least. A pleasure visiting with. He also gave me a demo of the NAV in another X5 with iDrive. I like the traffic update feature. Not sure it is any better than the Toyota NAV. Which leaves much to be desired.
What would it take to buy the new BMW X5 diesel? I would have to get a heck of a deal. I did not even talk to him about trading the Sequoia. If I got serious I would give them a shot. Though I am sure we would be miles apart.
The attention I got compared to a couple years ago was an obvious indication of the current market. They have only sold one of the X5 diesels since they arrived. He asked if I was interested in the 335D and I told him no. Don't like cars.
Peugeot
3008
Too bad Jose is the only one that will get the option. We get CUVs that are lucky to top 22 MPG. Pretty pathetic for the Once most powerful Nation on earth. No freedom of choice. Before long it will be only cars designed in Washington DC built by the Nationalized car company.
On the other hand, I am aware North Americans do not like 4cyl. engines. But the truth is there is so many excellent items to choose among them right now! From BMW and Audi through Peugeot/Citroen/Nissan down to many others. Regarding economy and efficiency, 4cyl. engines (diesels but not only diesels) are an excellent compromise to most town&road passenger traffic. But fighting against tradition-based biases is a difficult thing to do, I understand.
Regards,
Jose
Do it (not only for the castles)!
Regards,
Jose
Never say never - stranger things have happened:
Threesome: Fiat Looks To Link With Peugeot as Well as Chrysler, Reports Say (AutoObserver)
"Now, it appears the two companies could, for no investment, place Fiat, Renault and Peugeot cars in Chrysler showrooms and potentially shoulder out the vehicles of the fading Chrysler, nurturing only the still-attractive Jeep brand and possibly Chrysler's pickups."
Chrysler-Fiat Alliance Gets More Interesting With PSA Presence (AutoObserver)
Really what CAN Congress say? No and be the sugar momma/daddy for the big four GM/Ford/Chrysler/UAW, a failing industry even by their own and Congressional testimony accounts (Bail out monies)?
Gagrice's issue:
I think he and others have made the point the Congressional, executive, regulatory, logistical systems etc,etc., likes GREATER/better fuel consumption. It is as easy as do you really want folks to switch fast? Here is an easy one make diesel fuel cheaper than gas. Want them to switch even faster ? Give diesel fuel and cars meaning full TAX CREDITS.
Most thinking folks do not need a 2x4 across the forehead to see that 48 mpg (in a comparable CUV) is better than 22 mpg???. :surprise:
Not many in this country I am afraid. I have said it all along. If the mileage is high enough I will give up some comfort. I can tell you I am NOT going to give up the comfort of my Sequoia for a lousy 10 MPG gain. That is why I am torn on going with the new BMW X5 diesel. It is only rated about 7 MPG better than the Sequoia. I would give up size and some comfort. I would gain mileage, performance and handling. So it is tempting. Reports lead me to believe I could get 30 MPG on the open road.
One of my links said that the Lion would be coming out with a diesel-electric hybrid next year.
CLEAN diesel - is that like clean coal? :P
Indeed if folks want to peruse the Edmunds.com article about it, truly making the SUV's/PU/big car segments diesel would probably yield the most savings.
I can't wait for a diesel/electric silver Peugeot Pollyanna to fill a slot in my garage. :P
I have read that the US is Venuezula's top customer @ upwards of 93% of that countries oil production.
So yes, be VERY careful for what one wishes.
And yeah, without expensive oil, his political (and real) capital is way down.
I think that clean coal is still a bit worse than clean diesel. The EU seems very happy with diesel without Urea on the bigger ones. When you look at total emissions, diesel comes out looking better than gasoline. There is a LOT of false data floating around in the USA about harmful diesel emissions. I would guess most can be traced to oil company money. They have a lot of excess gasoline and not so much excess distillates to sell. Most of it is old data based on engines without particulate filters and not using ULSD. I would like to see a side by side comparison of a Jetta 4 cylinder gas and TDI. Look at all the emissions. Not cherry pick as CARB & the EPA have done.
& up to 18% MORE (LESS than 22 mpg or 18 mpg) in the winter !!
Pure percentage wise it is good. Actual money saved not so good. Trading is out of the question. I would say after beating the BMW guy down to say $5000 under invoice, I will be paying about $48k for a loaded X5 35D. At that point they would beat me down to a trade-in of about $25k on my near new Sequoia with 8K miles on it. That means it cost me $2 per mile in depreciation. Not my style. So you see I would have to sell my Sequoia for about $38k which I would say is doable considering the miles and condition. Plus it still has almost 6 years of Platinum warranty left. After which I would probably buy a used 2008 Mercedes ML 320 CDI that is really more plush than the X5. And does not require that Urea injection crap.
As an alreadly known entity, the fleet of (gasser) SUV's took app 35 years to go from less than 2% of the fleet to 12% of the fleet.... Lights, camera, sound, action!!!
As an aside, 2% of the passenger vehicle fleet is diesel. Of that % and number, 2%, upwards of 93% are diesel "so called" light trucks. History shows beyond a shadow of a doubt, the policy has been and probably continues to be one of higher consumption.
Lets compare Gasoline and Diesel engines for a moment...
Oil pressure -- SAME
Air in... exhaust out -- SAME
Cooling system -- SAME
Power steering (some are electric) -- SAME
AirConditioning -- SAME
ABS brakes -- SAME
Intake/Exhaust Valves -- SAME
Crankshaft -- SAME
CamShaft --SAME
ThrottleValve -- NONE ON DIESEL
IgnitionSystem -- NONE ON DIESEL
Gee - it looks as if diesel has LESS stuff on it than gasoline engine.... This is another reason Diesel is more reliable.
PS: The lack of throttleValve on Diesel engine is main reason it gets better MPG.... Unlike a gasoline engine which constantly sucking a vacuum against the throttle valve, a diesel engine is allowed to freely breathe as much air as it wants. (This is also why when you let off the throttle of a Diesel, the car barely slows down... no throttleValve to cause a vacuum)
"Available in two- or four-wheel drive, Tahoe Hybrid provides the power and capability you expect from a Chevy utility vehicle while offering fuel efficiency you never imagined — an outstanding EPA estimated MPG 21 city, 22 highway for 2WD models and 20 city, 20 highway for 4x4 models.
In fact, 2008 Tahoe Hybrid 2WD offers the same city fuel efficiency as a four-cylinder Toyota Camry."
"Tahoe Hybrid optimizes efficiency and performance whether you're driving in the city or on the highway thanks to the two-mode hybrid propulsion system. It's this innovative system that allows Tahoe Hybrid to offer up to 50% better city fuel economy the non-hybrid Tahoe."
While the Tahoe hybrid may offer a slight improvement over the non hybrid. It is in no way worth the higher price. GM could have had a real hit by putting a 6 cylinder diesel into the Tahoe class SUV. They could have easily made 25 MPG highway and not neutered the vehicle for towing. I got as high as 22 MPG on the highway with my old GMC hybrid PU truck. No thanks to the hybrid. In town it was the same old 15-16 MPG as all the other trucks I have owned. The Tahoe with 5.3L V8 gets 20 MPG on the highway and will tow 2500 lbs more than the hybrid. So that is only a 10% improvement over the non hybrid Tahoe. I think that all the Domestics and most of the Asians have missed the mark on large SUV power. They need to look at the German offerings to see where true economy resides. Within the next few months, VW and Audi will join BMW and Mercedes with 6 cylinder diesels that will blow the socks off anything offered in the USA. The BMW X5 diesel does the 0-60 MPH in 6.5 seconds. Try keeping up with any of the gas guzzling GM Hybrid SUVs. Then knock out 26-30 MPG on the highway.
Let's not hammer the guvmint for wanting clean diesels. It helps us to live longer.
Are you a city dweller? The cleaner air of this "going green" era may actually be increasing your lifespan. A new study by researchers at Brigham Young University and Harvard School of Public Health shows that average life expectancy in 51 U.S. cities increased nearly three years over recent decades, and approximately five months of that increase came thanks to cleaner air.
"Such a significant increase in life expectancy attributable to reducing air pollution is remarkable," said C. Arden Pope III, a BYU epidemiologist and lead author on the study in the Jan. 22 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.
"We find that we're getting a substantial return on our investments in improving our air quality. Not only are we getting cleaner air that improves our environment, but it is improving our public health."
The research matched two sets of data from 51 cities across the nation: changes in air pollution between about 1980 and about 2000; and residents' life expectancies during those years. The scientists applied advanced statistical models to account for other factors that could affect average life spans, such as changes in population, income, education, migration, demographics and cigarette smoking.
In cities that had previously been the most polluted and cleaned up the most, the cleaner air added approximately 10 months to the average resident's life. On average, Americans were living 2.72 years longer at the end of the two-decade study period; up to five months, or 15 percent, of that increase came because of reduced air pollution.
And that makes the same guvmint social programs less sustainable. We are living too long in retirement as it is. Not sure what that all has to do with wanting a clean diesel that saves fossil fuel for future generations. Life is a compromise.
Yes, diesel is more expensive, but you still burn less fuel. Plus, the more diesels they build and the more diesel refined, the more the cost is defrayed, eventually lowering the cost for consumers.
Unfortunately, gas is cheap again,making everyone forget last summer. I guess it's kinds of a good thing, since more people(like me) are losing their jobs everyday. Imagine the trouble we'd be in if gas was still $4.00/gal.
Na it's right we might never get 100% green, as everything will require some sort of energy to make. However I think it's will go less energy to produce a bike of 20 lbs than a car of 2000 lbs. Grin nope will not go into the toss about the energy it takes to get the food to the store etc.. and thats more than it takes to get the gas to the gas tank so to say.
So how would you get around in a densely created city like, NY or London? Take the car? Don't think so, it take 2 hours to get to the city center in a car and 45 min with bike, train and sneakers
Cheers Dyna
PS: I'm a she
Of course it would not be rocket science to project what that would do to the economy of London UK, as we know it, and the others.
While I can not speak for others, nor even the examples I cite, CA is experiencing a trend exodus. But then politicians spend all their energies making the environments down right hostile to business (people also) then when they move out, wonder why they all moved !!!!
This is exactly what is happening in the municipality where I live. The local councilperson did everything under the powers to drive folks and business out. Now as mayor, wonders what can be done to attract business and people. :P :shades:
So you are a lady in London that does not like the exhaust blowing in your face while riding your bike. I suppose if I could put myself in your situation I might feel as you do. I always picture London as it is in Lovejoy, one of my favorite series. I do imagine much of the diesel smell that you are getting in the city comes from delivery trucks, many of which don't have much in the way of particulate traps. All the recent diesels sold in the USA are very clean compared to those sold in the 1980s. The biggest issue was the fuel being cleaned of sulfur. That is where the nasty smell came from. I am just getting ready for the alternatives to become available for diesel. Such as biodiesel made from algae. Nothing much being worked on that will directly replace gasoline. So what ever you are burning now will be the same in 10-20 years. Unless someone comes up with a viable substitute for unleaded gas.
We don't want to run you off. We like to hear what is going on in other parts of the world.