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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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Pollution Tax Not Effective
Kelly's team now plans to determine whether the new restrictions improve the air - and people's health.
"If you can demonstrate a health benefit, then you would imagine the public would be more enthusiastic for a scheme where they would have to dip into their pockets every day."
London's poor air quality tackled with launch of Low Emission Zone
The Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, said: "Thousands of Londoners suffer ill-health from pollution released by traffic fumes and seven out of ten Londoners are concerned about the impact of air pollution.
The new study looked at the effects on 60 people with mild and moderate asthma of walking along the western end of busy Oxford Street in London, where only diesel-powered taxis and buses are permitted.
The researchers, from Imperial College London, the New Jersey School of Public Health, and other international institutions, found that both during and after a two hour walk along Oxford Street, the test volunteers experienced increased asthmatic symptoms, reduced lung capacity, and inflammation in the lungs. It took a few hours for these to return to their normal levels.
The researchers confirmed their results by comparing how the same people were affected by a two hour walk in the traffic-free, western part of London's Hyde Park. Here, the volunteers experienced some of the same problems but to a far lesser degree.
This is the first study to investigate in a real-life setting, outside of the laboratory, if traffic fumes make symptoms worse for people with asthma. Two thirds of people with asthma believe this to be the case, according to Asthma UK.
The researchers believe that diesel exhausts cause problems for people with asthma because of the particulates - minute particles of dust, dirt, soot and smoke - which they release into the air. Particulates come in different sizes but those of less than 2.5 microns, and the tiniest "ultra fine" ones, can interfere with the respiratory system, because they are so tiny that they can be inhaled deeply into the lungs. Ultra fine particles can also be absorbed in the blood, which may have damaging effects.
Until clean diesel engines circa-2007 and later are the norm, diesel exhaust will still be a major problem in tightly-packed European cities.
You can love diesel cars all you want, but don't try to ignore the health issues caused by diesel exhaust in the process of your love affair.
Actually that goes back hundreds if not at least a thousand years (read BEFORE automobiles.)
'Sall I'm Sprayin.............
I just don't like diesel that much because most of what I seen of it hasn't impressed me. What I'm especially unimpressed with is the complexity. That we can have pretty clean gasoline powered cars is pretty evident and it's not especially complex systems. It's basically decent EFI (with 02 sensor) , catalysator and EGR and you have a pretty clean car. This setup isn't that complex and will in most cases live for quite a few years before it need some repairs. Compare that with how hard it is to clean a diesel engine, I simply don't' think (kind of know) they will last that long before needing repairs and guess what people will be driving them for a year before a smog test will catch them... It's kind of simple to figure out they will dirty down more since they will require repairs more often hence will run more often with bad emissions than a gasoline powered car...
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."I don't know about all THAT. London is still among the worst polluted air cities in Europe: "...
Actually that goes back hundreds if not at least a thousand years (read BEFORE automobiles.)
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Well they though it was a good thing to burn coal in fireplace so every single household had one or two fireplaces where they burnt coal -- creating those nice and red sunset and fog (smog) that London was famous for :-)...
Well got to run, so see you folks another day
Cheers Dyna
PS: Like the "You can love diesel cars all you want, but don't try to ignore the health issues caused by diesel exhaust in the process of your love affair." comment.
With less than 1% of the US market being diesel cars there is little to no defacto choice.
So far both me and hubby are very happy with our LPG (SGi) powered 1999 Cadillac Seville --- lets just hope it's not to much electronic stuff that will go south. Probably will do LPG on some of our Classics too (the very thirsty once) as long as it can be somewhat hidden (don't like intrude on original look).
The cycle/train/sneakers is fine but it's more for daily commute to work. To be honest I don't really believe in public transport unless it's scheduled things like going to and from work at the same time day in and day out. I simply can't stand waiting 30 min for e.g. a bus. Beside don't think it's that green to have a double decker bus with a massive diesel engine transporting a single passenger..
Cheers Dyna
I agree with you on part of your point. Most of the US relies on buses for public transport (such as it is) and I don't use them. I hate buses, except for chartered ones. I don't like waiting either, and I don't like not immediately knowing the fare structure, the routes the zones, teh wait times, all that crap.
I DO however like using subways, metros, trolleys, and skytrains in cities around the world. These are usually fast, run frequently, are inexpensive, and easy to figure out even if I am not familiar with it. I save money, time and parking over trying to drive in these areas. If Iran the world, light rail would be available everywhere.
Unfortunately, most of the US is only set up for individual cars, and it is likely to stay that way. Constructing rational transport that people will really use has now become prohibitively expensive. It could only be done with things like tacking a $2 tax on each gallon of gas/diesel, and who is going to go for that, save the few voices crying in the wilderness? I think it will eventually come, even to the US, but things have to get much, much worse here first in terms of congestion, bad roads, godawful commutes and so on before the groans about light rail proposals die down.
In the meantime, I can be as selfish as the next guy. If I have to drive because I live here and the whole thing is set up around the car, then I want to use less fuel. I've gotten my best fuel cost per mile from a TDI. Now, I realize if diesels ever did take off in this country as they have elsewhere, people would probably drive even more, do longer commutes and exacerbate some of the very problems we already have. The earth's oil would last longer as well, and that would delay the development of suitable alternatives. Every situation has its drawbacks.
Its just a urea cannister that pumps slowly into a catalyst...
My gasoline-powered car has 3 catalytics in series. Technically, my gasser is more complex.
Doesn't seem like its likely to 'dirty down'. Doesn't seem likely to break. It might empty and be required to be refilled at Jiffy Lube, but thats about as complex as I think it gets.
What else is confusing about the clean diesel engine?
IMO, those that don't like diesels are using the complexity of the Windex dispenser as justification for their life-long hatred of diesels.
Some people just don't like certain cars. No justification necessary!
If diesel prices were the same as regular like it used to be I would be interested in a diesel again.
The other considerations I would have for a diesel would be in SUV's where a hybrid is not an option. I would be willing to lose out a little on the cost rather than drive my 14 mpg Expedition. If it had an 18 mpg diesel that would have been in my garage, even at the significant initial cost difference.
With vehicles at a higher FE rating the savings of a diesel in real monthly costs are not all that much if any.
I beleive that part of the decesion to go with a NONurea technology is because the US EPA was balking at the need for the owners to fill-up a tank every couple of years.
BTW: My windshield-washer fluid has to be filled about once a month for Feb, March, April as the salt on the roads tends to get on EVERYTHING. (Cars, Trees, Houses, Small animals...etc) Only after the spring rains have washed away all the salt from the roads does my windshield-washer use subside.
Good luck with that.
I've been waiting 8 years (so far) to buy a diesel Audi like the ones I drove in Germany. Not even a hint of anything over here yet, especially in the 1.9-2.0 litre size I'm primarily interested in.
You're welcome
Scott
Problem: You had to qualify for "VW Owner Loyalty" program and you have to have a 760 Fair Isaac score to get that price and financing.
Good deal for those who qualify, however.
Hard to beat .09% on a Acura MDX !!!
My swag was a min of a 100 Plus alignment, to perhaps tire,suspension damage ! yuck! :lemon: Of course those 65 mph pungie sticks (mini spears) were not inviting either !!!
I was curious about this and went looking - just to inject a little fact into this discussion, the 2/3 budgetary requirement in California actually dates to a Depression-era constitutional amendment (passed in 1933). It was basically put in place to limit spending increases, given the effects the Depression was having on the state's finances. Indications are that it was widely supported by everyone, not surprisingly.
Of course, the question becomes whether a Depression-era amendment is still good to have, given how the sociological context has changed - lots more people without healthcare today, at the same time the expectation of good healthcare has increased tenfold. Lots of funding for all sorts of social programs and schools was available from the federal government at that time, and no longer is. There are needs now that will not be met unless the state pays for them. On the flip side, spending must match revenues - how complicated is that concept? The "no tax increases" people and the social programs people need to compromise - some reductions in services, some increases in taxes or fees.
It was a recommendation of the California Constitutional Commission in 1996 that 2 changes be written to the constitution (among others):
1. the budget must be balanced every year, no borrowing allowed to cover deficits,
2. the 2/3 requirement must go away.
Of course, all their recommendations were roundly ignored, millions of taxpayer dollars down the toilet for no public benefit.
I would be in favor of eliminating the 2/3 requirement, even if it is replaced by a 55% requirement rather than 50% + 1.
And all of this has little to do with diesels, which will be required in Europe to be cleaner than CARB's requirements by the middle of the next decade.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Lets see 1.00 tax on a now 2.25 per gal of diesel and that has NOTHING to do with diesels???? Well I vote folks that feel that way and want the 1.00 tax, pay all my diesel fuel taxation !!
http://www.api.org/statistics/fueltaxes/upload/January_2009_gasoline_and_diesel_- summary_pages.pdf
and they would like to raise it another $1.00 per gal.
And to totally bore you all. per mile driven on like models 29 mpg/.537 cents=.0185 cents taxation per mile driven 49/.636 cents = .013 or 42.3% more.
"BMW wants to ensure the warmest possible reception for the 2009 BMW 335d and 2009 BMW X5 xDrive35d, so the company has made it impossible for you to make the number one most aggravating mistake: accidentally refueling your diesel vehicle with gasoline."
I was under the impression that a lot of pumps had the same size nozzle these days for both diesel and gasoline.
By ANDREW TAYLOR, Associated Press Writer Andrew Taylor, Associated Press Writer
link title
And... a $1300 dollar diesel jetta tax CREDIT !! Woo Hoo !!
I eyeballed a diesel nozzle this morning while filling up the wagon. I was too chicken to try to cram it in the filler tube. The sizing is similar at first glance but the diesel nozzle was obviously bigger, so you'd have to be daydreaming or preoccupied not to notice. The green handle helps too.
PS
Some stations have two sizes of diesel nozzles. The larger one for big trucks would not fit in my Passat TDI. I think the new ones will not allow the modern gas nozzles that have to go all the way down over the seal to get that far in a diesel spout. The new gas nozzles at least in CA help protect you from the deadly fumes that Gas puts off.
As far as it being an actual problem, that link I posted yesterday says that there are 5,000 "misfueling" incidents in Germany every year. So it's a real, if small issue.
I didn't notice my shoes smelling like diesel after I filled so I guess no one had used the diesel side of the pump lately and hadn't spilled any on the ground. :P
If cars and ICEs were invented today, the EPA probably wouldn't let them on the road because of the health hazards.
link title
Bimmer's U.S. Clean Diesels Qualify For Clean-Car Tax Credits From IRS
But it is almost stunning if you compare it against the M3 (20 mpg) or 80% better.
I am very undecided at this time. I did have someone wanting to buy my Sequoia. So I may have to decide sooner than I was planning. I think right today I would opt for the pre Urea 2008 ML320 CDI. They are around and about $10K less than the new one. Or I may just keep trying to wear out the 20 year old Lexus.
PS
I could not find the amount of the incentive in your linked article.