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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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BMW diesel tax credits
Mercedes-Benz announced a new range of four-cylinder diesel engines today, reiterating their focus on reducing engine size while maintaining performance. The new lineup delivers better economy and power levels than Mercedes’ previous generation of four-cylinder diesel engines, with the most powerful variant delivering 20% more power and torque than the outgoing powerplant.
The range topper is a new 204hp 2.1L unit with a peak torque of 500Nm – as much twist-force as a petrol V8. Despite the increase in power and torque, the new four-cylinder diesel burns substantially less fuel than its predecessor and as a consequence CO2 emissions are reduced by as much as 13% and are now in line with future EU5 emissions standard.
The new engine lineup will initially be offered in the C-Class sedan. It will come in three guises: 250CDI with 204hp, 220 CDI with 170hp and the 200CDI with 136hp. There are also plans to put the engine into SUV's, as well as install it in hybrids and possibly combine it with Mercedes' BLUETEC technology. The top of the line 250CDI will accelerate from 0-60mph in about 7.7 seconds and still return fuel economy of 46mpg.
That would translate to 38 MPG here, which is still VERY good.
My interest would be in that engine in the GLK class which is slated. Will we get it is the question.
There was no posting as to how it would be used (in tandem) with tax CREDITS, such as $1,800 and $900. for the X5 35D, 335 D respectively.
Anyway, 38 for any SUV is great. Nothing we have here now does that well.
C250 CDI
My thought on getting it to America in that format? Fat chance, if history has any say in it.
While we all might have this "NASCAR" fantasy and might vilify less hp vehicles, the real scenario is speed limits of 65 maybe 70 on rurals. Across the pond they have the "little" cars and have autobahn's that still have portions with unlimited speed limits !! Probably more normal are 80 mph speed limits. And the so called small hp HUGE torque MONSTERS do just fine, albeit better mpg to name JUST ONE. Get an American hp monster over there and in flight refueling will become a genuine asset !
One place I have cruised that was an absolutel pleasure was I 40 E/W in TX. Two things: speed limit sign @ 80 mph and another that said, left lane for passing ONLY !!! Well I happened to get into a time/distance mph band width with a loaded tractor trailer, who was riding his torque curve. Now I didn't want to cruise at 110 mph to put some distance between us, or get off the road for 30 min to 1 hour to let him get far enough ahead... so... Upshot is we passed each other on each's torque curve strengths, when the situation presented itself aka 85-90 with bursts to 95. He's ok and so am I with it. Well on one section, I look to pull out to pass, signal and..... I see WAY back in the distance a black spot catching up FAST. So I hang back. I get the high beam flash and he seems now to be even with me, only pretty far back. I signal to pass the trailer at 95 and signal to go back to the slow lane. By this time, the black and white passes ME like I am lollygagging !!
Still a fill gave 48 mpg, 90 hp/155# ft !!! Along the lines Larsb has noted and I ask how many of those kind of cars getting higher (48 mpg, at any level) do we have in the states?
I also test-drove the TDI Smart fortwo about 6-7 years ago in Frankfurt, but the dealer was uncooperative about getting into an export transaction. Does anyone know why Canada is getting diesel Smarts, but not the US? Is there any hope that we will be able to buy Diesel Smarts here, and why is diesel fuel selling at such a high markup over high test gasoline in the USA? Diesel can be made from lots of different petroleum feedstocks, including old motor oil, so why is disel so expensive?
The EPA and CARB have fashioned the emissions tests to eliminate all but the cleanest diesel cars. PU trucks can spew out as much as you like no problem. They are not a health risk it seems. So far the only affordable diesel car sold in all 50 states is the Jetta TDI and the Sportwagen variation. I fell in love with the little Smart diesel in Vancouver BC. Why they do not allow that fuel sipping vehicle in is near criminal. It gets an easy 70 MPG around town. And folks have gotten as high as 90 MPG. We get the gas guzzling version that cannot even beat the much bigger Yaris in real driving. A real joke. If you really like hatchbacks and high mileage the Prius is the only thing on the market. You just will not get close to the same safety, performance, braking or handling of the Golf.
Large diesel work trucks are required for America to go about it's daily business. Diesel passenger cars are not.
There's the difference.
Now, speaking personally: Would I like for ALL diesel pickups to be held to the same tight emissions standards as the passenger cars? Yes I would. But for whatever reasons, they are not.
But really, since they are sold in such small volume, it really does not matter that much. They will sell only a certain number of them regardless of the emission requirements.
Now, if there ever developed a situation where the regulators knew that a million diesel pickups would be sold every year, then that would change things and they would tighten up on the requirements.
My guess is that part of the reason the regs are so tight on diesel cars is because they know that heavy-duty diesel work vehicles, trucks, buses, and off-road devices are doing so much polluting.
And the ports that keep bringing foreign fuel guzzlers into the country?
It is that kind of insane and elitest thinking that keeps gets and keeps us in perpetual trouble !! It is sort of like the spoiled prince who commits a transgression (our legislators and the food chain) so to teach him a lesson they execute a group of slaves in front of him and let him give the order. Nice if you are the prince/princess and can later intellectualize about it. Not to nice if you are the one getting executed/(denied in this analogy)
So again another example of we follow the import the fuel guzzler (36 mpg) and keep out the fuel sipper (70 mpg) So what has really changed????
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The 280 # ft of torque (I4) dwarfs any (gasser) Honda Accord available here, even a V6 @ 254 # ft link title
(On more than a few ocassions) I have done 584 miles in slightly less than 6.25 hours, driving and filled with 12.1 gals (point that fuel lamp and buzzer goes off and finding the next station) in an 03 Jetta TDI. This particular instance was between 2000 ft to 6,600 altitudes with the A/C blasting half the trip (viva Las Vegas!
It does beat the Yaris by 5 mpg or so. Not a lot, but it is there. Taller gearing and a leaner air-fuel ratio would stretch that out to 10 or more, but that would just make the "it's too slow" crybabies even more whiny.
Having said that, I'd take a 1 liter 60 hp/ 100 ft-lb turbodiesel smart the second after it was announced.
I'd hazard a guess that a new-gen diesel in the 451 with roughly equivalent performance as the gasser would get maybe 60-65 in mixed use, with straight highway mileage stretching into the low 70s.
How to sell diesel to Americans
I called Ford executive Mark Fields a "wuss" in my AutoWeek column because he would not commit to bringing to our shores the charming Fiesta with the optional diesel engine. Gasoline power, yes; that Fiesta is scheduled to arrive within the year (from Mexico).
But no diesels. The mileage for the gas engine is rated at a so-so (for a small car) 35 mpg. The diesel gets almost double that.
Mark has that lovely title at Ford--Head of All the Americas--so the power is his. I dissed him because he chose to operate from the safe, wussy notion that Americans won't buy diesel.
True, that conviction is easier than ever to defend these days. While Europeans were where we are now with diesel use a dozen years ago, that use has zoomed to more than half of all cars on the road in Europe being diesel-powered. Some countries are 90 percent diesel. Yes, of course, taxation and driving conditions are different there. And, Americans have never cottoned to the European ideal of sporty wagons and hatchbacks, mostly on the small side and mostly well-appointed.
In addition, three things make diesel an even tougher sell in the United States at the moment:
I am a bit surprised you'd go for something like a Tiguan. I'd figure a Kia Borrego with the 3L V6 turbodiesel would be more your style.
An increase of 7% from december.
At a coast of 17 billion dollars DAM way to much money going over seas.
This is the engine that was going to be delivered in '10 Acura TSXs, but probably won't be now.
Part of why I bought a gas TSX last year was to be able to trade it in for one of the diesels. Oh well. . . Plus which, they put a beak on the car that I don't much care for.
Also, better availability of Diesel fuel in my area (west central Wisconsin) would help.
It's a chicken-or-egg dilemma: more Diesels would be sold if Diesel fuel was more widely sold; which it would be if there were more Diesel vehicles; which there would be if...
As owner of one such vehicle, I can tell you that HD diesel pickups have gone through far more emissions tightening than any other "light" vehicle. Cummins had to re-engineer the diesel they provide to Dodge in 1994, 1998, 2002, 2004, and 2007 to meet constantly changing emissions regs. My 1996 was completely mechanical... no electronics anywhere (once running, you could disconnect the batteries and it would continue until you cut off the air or fuel), but still had a cat-con. My 2005 has computer-controlled everything including three-shot fuel injectors to reduce unburned fuel events (it also cost me about 10-15% in fuel economy).
There is no visible exhaust on my 2005 unless I induce smoke by doing something patently stupid like redlining it when the engine's ice cold.
Another round of diesel regs arrive Jan 1 2010... although Cummins opted to meet those regs with their 2007 redesign. There will be a revised Duramax for Chevy/GMC, and since they ended their contract with Navistar, Ford will likely have their new in-house diesel ready by then.
How many times have gasoline emissions regs changed since 1994?
kcram - Pickups/Wagons Host
RUG $2.11
PUG $2.31
D2 $2.25
New diesel engine break in is a pain, 50-60,000 miles till full compression
On the other hand, a 03 MY diesel @ 114,000 miles is and has been getting ITS' best mpg. These global warming "cold" winters have taken their toll- only 50-51 mpg! :lemon: It also doesn't help that just recently the oem tires were switched out @ 112,000 miles! Here's hoping for the next 100,000 miles (target 200,000 miles) :shades:
RUG $ 2.09
PUG $ 2.39
D2 $ 2.03
When one compares like models 03 VW's 2.0 Rug/1.8T PUG..... !!!! But I am already too guilty of preaching to the choir. :lemon:
Indeed, am seriously thinking of it. Lots of talk of owner loyalty ( previously NOT for the TDI's) of late. The big HOWEVER is despite 114,000 miles, I actually am starting to really like it !
This is even in direct comparison to the 09 MY !!! 140 hp/236# ft (vs 90 hp/155# ft) and the DSG (direct shift gearbox) really makes it quite a different car not to mention the fact it feels more" BMW like" Funny thing however is the 09 MY, even during break in gets better mpg than the Civic, albeit 4-6 mpg !!!!
..."Mikulski’s proposal would grant a tax credit for vehicles bought between Nov. 12 of last year and Dec. 31 of this year. The tax break would only go to families making less than $250,000 a year, and would only apply to interest on loans up to $49,500."...
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..."Buyers would still pay the regular state sales tax on your new car or truck, but then you could deduct that tax on your federal income tax. You can do the same thing with the interest payment on your car loan."...
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We have already cited the specific models in past posts for the clean burn (D2) alternative vehicle tax credits.
Every little bit helps even as 2/3 are not really diesel specific.
gagrice, "Report Your Local Gas Prices Here" #8453, 13 Feb 2009 10:26 am
If this trend continues and lasts for a while, there's going to be a bump in demand for diesel rigs.
Refiners have throttled back on gasoline production due to the rather notable drop in miles driven over the past year, which apparently is continuing even after gas prices recovered from last summer. Oil is still below $40 a barrel, but gasoline has risen over 20 cents since the start of the year - refiners have stated they have no interest in producing excess gasoline when demand is dropping. OTOH, diesel has continued its slower but steadier decline. Diesel's demand is steadier due to the truck, bus, and rail industries, thus its continued decline along with oil's barrel price.
Here in NJ where the gas/diesel price split had been more severe, diesel can be had for $1.999 if you look around, and it's equal to or within cents of premium unleaded at many stations. At the current pace of gasoline increase and diesel decrease, diesel should catch regular unleaded this spring.
Article: Sun-Sentinel Feb 15 2009 - "The price of crude oil falls to yearly low, but gas goes ever higher - what gives?"
kcram - Pickups/Wagons Host