Found it. The X5 35D has a $1800 tax Credit and the 335D is $900. So many people in the demographic that buys BMW will be caught with the AMT which does not allow for tax credits.
Question is will we get them in the USA? What would come even close to a combined 46 MPG in a midsized and accelerate from 0-60 MPH in 7.7 seconds?
Mercedes-Benz announced a new range of four-cylinder diesel engines today, reiterating their focus on reducing engine size while maintaining performance. The new lineup delivers better economy and power levels than Mercedes’ previous generation of four-cylinder diesel engines, with the most powerful variant delivering 20% more power and torque than the outgoing powerplant.
The range topper is a new 204hp 2.1L unit with a peak torque of 500Nm – as much twist-force as a petrol V8. Despite the increase in power and torque, the new four-cylinder diesel burns substantially less fuel than its predecessor and as a consequence CO2 emissions are reduced by as much as 13% and are now in line with future EU5 emissions standard.
The new engine lineup will initially be offered in the C-Class sedan. It will come in three guises: 250CDI with 204hp, 220 CDI with 170hp and the 200CDI with 136hp. There are also plans to put the engine into SUV's, as well as install it in hybrids and possibly combine it with Mercedes' BLUETEC technology. The top of the line 250CDI will accelerate from 0-60mph in about 7.7 seconds and still return fuel economy of 46mpg.
If it is an improvement on the current C class diesel then it is probably as posted 46 MPG. The Current C class diesel 4 cylinder is rated 49.6 MPG in the UK. Which translates to 41.3 MPG US. 38 MPG would not be all that impressive out of a 4 cylinder diesel. The current 6 cylinder E class owners are getting as much as 38 MPG combined and it is a much larger car.
My interest would be in that engine in the GLK class which is slated. Will we get it is the question.
Any body can goggle this but the Senate has just passed a bill effective Nov 2008 to Dec 2009 that will give tax DEDUCTIONS up to $49,500 for a new car bought at and between those time frames.
There was no posting as to how it would be used (in tandem) with tax CREDITS, such as $1,800 and $900. for the X5 35D, 335 D respectively.
It is not an SUV. The C250 is a midsized sedan. It will match the combined mileage of the Prius and get far better highway mileage. If it gets 20% better economy than the current C200 CDI, it should top 62 MPG US on the highway. I don't think it has been released outside Germany so far. I don't see it listed in the UK for sale. The EU has many diesel cars that get 60 MPG US on the highway. Just not sold here where fuel is cheap and the American drivers all think they should be in a NASCAR race.
Here is a complete listing on the C250 CDI from MSN. The EU mileage is 54.3 MPG combined. In US that is 45.21 MPG Combined. 0-62 MPH in 7 seconds. Should satisfy the Nascar boys and the Prius crowd at the same time.
I could get used to the GLK sized CUV MB if they offered it with their small diesel. No chance I will buy the gas version that only gets 21 MPG on Premium unleaded out on the highway. The real question is will any auto maker expand the diesel offerings in this economic climate?
That is almost too funny 369 is HUGE torque !! We have been posting on diesel threads for a while and most folks STILL do NOT get this !!??
While we all might have this "NASCAR" fantasy and might vilify less hp vehicles, the real scenario is speed limits of 65 maybe 70 on rurals. Across the pond they have the "little" cars and have autobahn's that still have portions with unlimited speed limits !! Probably more normal are 80 mph speed limits. And the so called small hp HUGE torque MONSTERS do just fine, albeit better mpg to name JUST ONE. Get an American hp monster over there and in flight refueling will become a genuine asset ! So yes, if they REALLY want better mpg in the US markets, they really either have to build em or let in cars that ACTUALLY GET better mpg and at cruising speeds or... both.
One place I have cruised that was an absolutel pleasure was I 40 E/W in TX. Two things: speed limit sign @ 80 mph and another that said, left lane for passing ONLY !!! Well I happened to get into a time/distance mph band width with a loaded tractor trailer, who was riding his torque curve. Now I didn't want to cruise at 110 mph to put some distance between us, or get off the road for 30 min to 1 hour to let him get far enough ahead... so... Upshot is we passed each other on each's torque curve strengths, when the situation presented itself aka 85-90 with bursts to 95. He's ok and so am I with it. Well on one section, I look to pull out to pass, signal and..... I see WAY back in the distance a black spot catching up FAST. So I hang back. I get the high beam flash and he seems now to be even with me, only pretty far back. I signal to pass the trailer at 95 and signal to go back to the slow lane. By this time, the black and white passes ME like I am lollygagging !!
Still a fill gave 48 mpg, 90 hp/155# ft !!! Along the lines Larsb has noted and I ask how many of those kind of cars getting higher (48 mpg, at any level) do we have in the states?
My wife and I used to make yearly vacation trips to Europe, where we rented a VW Golf Diesel because of its great mileage and the low cost (!!) of diesel at the time - about 20% less than REGULAR. Autobahn blasts @ 160 kph (about 100mph) gave us 43 mpg. We have since had a number of people tell us that they averaged 53 mpg in the USA with the same car. Maybe they meant a Jetta TDI? Have VW Golf TDI's been imported into the US lately? I love all hatchbacks for their versatility and cargo room, but have so far been unable to find a new Golf TDI here in the states.
I also test-drove the TDI Smart fortwo about 6-7 years ago in Frankfurt, but the dealer was uncooperative about getting into an export transaction. Does anyone know why Canada is getting diesel Smarts, but not the US? Is there any hope that we will be able to buy Diesel Smarts here, and why is diesel fuel selling at such a high markup over high test gasoline in the USA? Diesel can be made from lots of different petroleum feedstocks, including old motor oil, so why is disel so expensive?
Does anyone know why Canada is getting diesel Smarts, but not the US?
The EPA and CARB have fashioned the emissions tests to eliminate all but the cleanest diesel cars. PU trucks can spew out as much as you like no problem. They are not a health risk it seems. So far the only affordable diesel car sold in all 50 states is the Jetta TDI and the Sportwagen variation. I fell in love with the little Smart diesel in Vancouver BC. Why they do not allow that fuel sipping vehicle in is near criminal. It gets an easy 70 MPG around town. And folks have gotten as high as 90 MPG. We get the gas guzzling version that cannot even beat the much bigger Yaris in real driving. A real joke. If you really like hatchbacks and high mileage the Prius is the only thing on the market. You just will not get close to the same safety, performance, braking or handling of the Golf.
The previous generation Golf TDI was available here from 1999 to 2005. It had either a 90 hp or 100 hp 1.9 liter diesel, and easily got the mileage you mention (I have one, my sister has one, several friends have them). The Rabbit (Golf) will have a diesel option again this fall. However, it is a more powerful engine and will likely not achieve 50 mpg consistently.
gagrice says, "PU trucks can spew out as much as you like no problem. They are not a health risk it seems."
Large diesel work trucks are required for America to go about it's daily business. Diesel passenger cars are not.
There's the difference.
Now, speaking personally: Would I like for ALL diesel pickups to be held to the same tight emissions standards as the passenger cars? Yes I would. But for whatever reasons, they are not.
But really, since they are sold in such small volume, it really does not matter that much. They will sell only a certain number of them regardless of the emission requirements.
Now, if there ever developed a situation where the regulators knew that a million diesel pickups would be sold every year, then that would change things and they would tighten up on the requirements.
My guess is that part of the reason the regs are so tight on diesel cars is because they know that heavy-duty diesel work vehicles, trucks, buses, and off-road devices are doing so much polluting.
..."My guess is that part of the reason the regs are so tight on diesel cars is because they know that heavy-duty diesel work vehicles, trucks, buses, and off-road devices are doing so much polluting." ...
And the ports that keep bringing foreign fuel guzzlers into the country?
It is that kind of insane and elitest thinking that keeps gets and keeps us in perpetual trouble !! It is sort of like the spoiled prince who commits a transgression (our legislators and the food chain) so to teach him a lesson they execute a group of slaves in front of him and let him give the order. Nice if you are the prince/princess and can later intellectualize about it. Not to nice if you are the one getting executed/(denied in this analogy)
So again another example of we follow the import the fuel guzzler (36 mpg) and keep out the fuel sipper (70 mpg) So what has really changed????
Folks at GTG's tell me the Golf TDI is lighter than the Jetta TDI. There are also subtle differences. Be that as it may, 43 mpg is definitely do able (albeit @ 100 mph) !! 53 mpg in the states does not seem out of the ordinary/realm of possibility.
(On more than a few ocassions) I have done 584 miles in slightly less than 6.25 hours, driving and filled with 12.1 gals (point that fuel lamp and buzzer goes off and finding the next station) in an 03 Jetta TDI. This particular instance was between 2000 ft to 6,600 altitudes with the A/C blasting half the trip (viva Las Vegas! ) . The other half full HEAT, as it is CCC...COLD in Durango, CO. It indeed would be an interesting comparison to do the exact trip in a (gasser) Honda Civic, as good as it gets at much slower avg speeds 27 miles between 45 min to 1.5 hours @ a range of 38-42 mpg.
We get the gas guzzling version that cannot even beat the much bigger Yaris in real driving.
It does beat the Yaris by 5 mpg or so. Not a lot, but it is there. Taller gearing and a leaner air-fuel ratio would stretch that out to 10 or more, but that would just make the "it's too slow" crybabies even more whiny.
Having said that, I'd take a 1 liter 60 hp/ 100 ft-lb turbodiesel smart the second after it was announced.
I talked to a guy in BC that loved his Smart diesel. Said he was averaging 72 MPG just running around Vancouver Island. The dealer only orders the diesel model and they are sold before they get to the dealership. They had several waiting to be picked up when I looked at them in the Mercedes dealership. The Cabriolet with every option was $19k Canadian.
72 vs 40 mpg?(diesel/gasser SmartCar) 80% better speaks for itself, even as 40 mpg is STELLAR! . If the deny er's still dont know how to do the math or don't care, it is just further evidence of the "RUG to PUG" only policy and greater consumption vs lesser consumption being the rule !! Most people can only swim against the tide for so long.....
Canada uses Imperial gallons, so that works out to about 60 US mpg for mixed driving. Canada doesn't get the diesel version of the current model (451) since it won't pass emissions.
I'd hazard a guess that a new-gen diesel in the 451 with roughly equivalent performance as the gasser would get maybe 60-65 in mixed use, with straight highway mileage stretching into the low 70s.
I think Mercedes new 2.2L diesel probably shows more promise for real world usage. If it will haul a C class car around and get 45 MPG combined it would be worthwhile looking into. I like the 6 cylinder diesels the Germans are offering. They are more than I really need or want. I would rather have a bit smaller SUV type vehicle with a 4 cylinder that I could squeeze 40 MPG out of. I think as popular as the Tiguan is it would sell well with the current VW TDI used in the Jetta.
I called Ford executive Mark Fields a "wuss" in my AutoWeek column because he would not commit to bringing to our shores the charming Fiesta with the optional diesel engine. Gasoline power, yes; that Fiesta is scheduled to arrive within the year (from Mexico).
But no diesels. The mileage for the gas engine is rated at a so-so (for a small car) 35 mpg. The diesel gets almost double that.
Mark has that lovely title at Ford--Head of All the Americas--so the power is his. I dissed him because he chose to operate from the safe, wussy notion that Americans won't buy diesel.
True, that conviction is easier than ever to defend these days. While Europeans were where we are now with diesel use a dozen years ago, that use has zoomed to more than half of all cars on the road in Europe being diesel-powered. Some countries are 90 percent diesel. Yes, of course, taxation and driving conditions are different there. And, Americans have never cottoned to the European ideal of sporty wagons and hatchbacks, mostly on the small side and mostly well-appointed.
In addition, three things make diesel an even tougher sell in the United States at the moment:
I would assume that the new smart diesel (it will need a new engine to meet Euro 5) would employ the lessons learned with the Benz 2.2L, though perhaps not so vigorously for lack of anywhere to mount a suitably large intercooler.
I am a bit surprised you'd go for something like a Tiguan. I'd figure a Kia Borrego with the 3L V6 turbodiesel would be more your style.
I did not know they were going to offer a Kia Diesel SUV. Right today I would probably buy a slightly used 2007-08 ML320 CDI if one wandered by my door. VW is supposed to offer their V6 TDI in the Touareg this year. That is a possibility. I like the looks of the Touareg better than the X5 or the ML320. It is also tougher built for off road use. Not in a hurry unless the Overhead door guy comes back and has to buy my Sequoia. Then I will get more aggressive in my search.
408.7 million barrel of oil imported in U.S. in January An increase of 7% from december. At a coast of 17 billion dollars DAM way to much money going over seas.
That is why you should buy a diesel car and save some oil for your kids. Maybe a nice VW Jetta TDI or a Mercedes E320 CDI. Nice cars. Nothing like them built in Detroit.
VW was given a cap of 60,000 units by the IRS for the 2009 MY; when the $1,300 tax CREDIT begins to be lessened. I am not sure of the over all significance of this, as the sale of new cars (overwhelmingly gassers) over all is not going to go much over 10 M units, down from 16.5 M units the year before, or minus -39.4%. In addition, while this might seem like a small number, I have read in passing the VW TDI 's for 2003 was 4% of MY 225,000 units total sales, for 9,000 TDI's.
This HONDA diesel is literally awesome, but will remain for the Euro market.
This is the engine that was going to be delivered in '10 Acura TSXs, but probably won't be now.
Part of why I bought a gas TSX last year was to be able to trade it in for one of the diesels. Oh well. . . Plus which, they put a beak on the car that I don't much care for.
I would buy a Diesel-powered compact car over a hybrid if one were offered by more mfrs. Also, better availability of Diesel fuel in my area (west central Wisconsin) would help. It's a chicken-or-egg dilemma: more Diesels would be sold if Diesel fuel was more widely sold; which it would be if there were more Diesel vehicles; which there would be if...
That was a concern when first considering a diesel in late 2002. The reality is unless you HAVE to have a diesel outlet @ your "corner store", (symbolic purposes) (I happen to, but that is just the luck of the draw.) in 6 years and 113,000 miles later, there has been absolutely no problems or issues getting D2 fuel. In my case the range is 700 miles, and usually along the way is normally cheaper than "corner store prices".
The EPA and CARB have fashioned the emissions tests to eliminate all but the cleanest diesel cars. PU trucks can spew out as much as you like no problem.
As owner of one such vehicle, I can tell you that HD diesel pickups have gone through far more emissions tightening than any other "light" vehicle. Cummins had to re-engineer the diesel they provide to Dodge in 1994, 1998, 2002, 2004, and 2007 to meet constantly changing emissions regs. My 1996 was completely mechanical... no electronics anywhere (once running, you could disconnect the batteries and it would continue until you cut off the air or fuel), but still had a cat-con. My 2005 has computer-controlled everything including three-shot fuel injectors to reduce unburned fuel events (it also cost me about 10-15% in fuel economy).
There is no visible exhaust on my 2005 unless I induce smoke by doing something patently stupid like redlining it when the engine's ice cold.
Another round of diesel regs arrive Jan 1 2010... although Cummins opted to meet those regs with their 2007 redesign. There will be a revised Duramax for Chevy/GMC, and since they ended their contract with Navistar, Ford will likely have their new in-house diesel ready by then.
How many times have gasoline emissions regs changed since 1994?
Yes I agree that there have been many additions to the diesel engines on large PU trucks to cut emissions. So many in fact that our 2004 Ford diesels would not go a week in the Arctic winter without the check engine light coming on and a trip to the shop. They would reset and it would come back in a few days. My point is, as clean as they have made the current 3/4 ton diesels they still put out much larger amounts of GHG, NoX etc than a small 4 or 6 cylinder diesel engine in a car or SUV. If we would have joined with the EU on standards when ULSD was mandated it would have saved $millions in unneeded emissions R&D for the companies wanting to sell diesel cars and SUVs in the USA. If we had followed the EU emissions standards on ULSD and equipment on cars, we could have saved Billions in foreign oil. Last count the EU is now 70% diesel with some countries higher than that. The only downside that I see is what do you do with the nasty gasoline that is a by-product of refining oil? The same issue that plagued Rockefeller in 1898. I guess you sell it to people that are willing to settle for a gas hybrid.
I live in west central WI (Hixton/Alma Center) as well and have never had any difficulty fueling my TDI. I think Ford and GM plus Toyota, Honda, etc. will jump in as soon as something is done about the higher diesel fuel cost. There certainly is no need for it to cost more than RUG.
Indeed RUG to PUG consumers pay with .50 per gal more. Diesel consumers (primarily NOT passenger car diesel users) also pay a min of .50 cents more for domestic diesel under the same as the english say scheme. Since most of the diesel customers are business and the transportation business, consumers really pay the bill for the diesel premium, in addition. The tax subsidy to export domestic diesel (normally to,....you guessed it Europe) is another .50 cents So there is a direct $1.00 total direct subsidy. The indirect/direct subsidy through the tax code is a min of another .50 cents.
The only reason I see is the glut of Unleaded. There is a Thrifty station here that is selling diesel for less than Premium. Only 12 cents higher than RUG. Many places here selling diesel at $2.19 per gallon. Most Premium is at $2.25 and higher. Costco is $2.05 for RUG now. For me in San Diego, diesel is a good deal with the added MPG. Just finding what I want is the tough part.
New diesel engine break in is a pain, 50-60,000 miles till full compression
On the other hand, a 03 MY diesel @ 114,000 miles is and has been getting ITS' best mpg. These global warming "cold" winters have taken their toll- only 50-51 mpg! :lemon: It also doesn't help that just recently the oem tires were switched out @ 112,000 miles! Here's hoping for the next 100,000 miles (target 200,000 miles) :shades:
Even at these so called "falling fuel prices", the apples to oranges comparison is the 04 Civc gasser at 38 mpg is 35.7% % more (per mile driven) than the 03 VW TDI @ 50 mpg !! I probably should not emphasize this at all.
When one compares like models 03 VW's 2.0 Rug/1.8T PUG..... !!!! But I am already too guilty of preaching to the choir. :lemon:
Indeed, am seriously thinking of it. Lots of talk of owner loyalty ( previously NOT for the TDI's) of late. The big HOWEVER is despite 114,000 miles, I actually am starting to really like it ! :shades:
This is even in direct comparison to the 09 MY !!! 140 hp/236# ft (vs 90 hp/155# ft) and the DSG (direct shift gearbox) really makes it quite a different car not to mention the fact it feels more" BMW like" Funny thing however is the 09 MY, even during break in gets better mpg than the Civic, albeit 4-6 mpg !!!!
I just read in passing, the sales tax for a NEW automobile bought in TY 2009 will be deductible.
..."Mikulski’s proposal would grant a tax credit for vehicles bought between Nov. 12 of last year and Dec. 31 of this year. The tax break would only go to families making less than $250,000 a year, and would only apply to interest on loans up to $49,500."...
..."Buyers would still pay the regular state sales tax on your new car or truck, but then you could deduct that tax on your federal income tax. You can do the same thing with the interest payment on your car loan."...
This is nothing new, and will not last.Diesel prices tend to start to go down as the heating season ends. Every year, the pattern is a bit different, but diesel prices have fluctuated for years. If diesel stayed down where it goes on the low swings, companies would no longer delay introduction of their diesel models. I don't think this represents a sea change. I have seen it before.
Refiners have throttled back on gasoline production due to the rather notable drop in miles driven over the past year, which apparently is continuing even after gas prices recovered from last summer. Oil is still below $40 a barrel, but gasoline has risen over 20 cents since the start of the year - refiners have stated they have no interest in producing excess gasoline when demand is dropping. OTOH, diesel has continued its slower but steadier decline. Diesel's demand is steadier due to the truck, bus, and rail industries, thus its continued decline along with oil's barrel price.
Here in NJ where the gas/diesel price split had been more severe, diesel can be had for $1.999 if you look around, and it's equal to or within cents of premium unleaded at many stations. At the current pace of gasoline increase and diesel decrease, diesel should catch regular unleaded this spring.
Comments
BMW diesel tax credits
Mercedes-Benz announced a new range of four-cylinder diesel engines today, reiterating their focus on reducing engine size while maintaining performance. The new lineup delivers better economy and power levels than Mercedes’ previous generation of four-cylinder diesel engines, with the most powerful variant delivering 20% more power and torque than the outgoing powerplant.
The range topper is a new 204hp 2.1L unit with a peak torque of 500Nm – as much twist-force as a petrol V8. Despite the increase in power and torque, the new four-cylinder diesel burns substantially less fuel than its predecessor and as a consequence CO2 emissions are reduced by as much as 13% and are now in line with future EU5 emissions standard.
The new engine lineup will initially be offered in the C-Class sedan. It will come in three guises: 250CDI with 204hp, 220 CDI with 170hp and the 200CDI with 136hp. There are also plans to put the engine into SUV's, as well as install it in hybrids and possibly combine it with Mercedes' BLUETEC technology. The top of the line 250CDI will accelerate from 0-60mph in about 7.7 seconds and still return fuel economy of 46mpg.
That would translate to 38 MPG here, which is still VERY good.
My interest would be in that engine in the GLK class which is slated. Will we get it is the question.
There was no posting as to how it would be used (in tandem) with tax CREDITS, such as $1,800 and $900. for the X5 35D, 335 D respectively.
Anyway, 38 for any SUV is great. Nothing we have here now does that well.
C250 CDI
My thought on getting it to America in that format? Fat chance, if history has any say in it.
While we all might have this "NASCAR" fantasy and might vilify less hp vehicles, the real scenario is speed limits of 65 maybe 70 on rurals. Across the pond they have the "little" cars and have autobahn's that still have portions with unlimited speed limits !! Probably more normal are 80 mph speed limits. And the so called small hp HUGE torque MONSTERS do just fine, albeit better mpg to name JUST ONE. Get an American hp monster over there and in flight refueling will become a genuine asset !
One place I have cruised that was an absolutel pleasure was I 40 E/W in TX. Two things: speed limit sign @ 80 mph and another that said, left lane for passing ONLY !!! Well I happened to get into a time/distance mph band width with a loaded tractor trailer, who was riding his torque curve. Now I didn't want to cruise at 110 mph to put some distance between us, or get off the road for 30 min to 1 hour to let him get far enough ahead... so... Upshot is we passed each other on each's torque curve strengths, when the situation presented itself aka 85-90 with bursts to 95. He's ok and so am I with it. Well on one section, I look to pull out to pass, signal and..... I see WAY back in the distance a black spot catching up FAST. So I hang back. I get the high beam flash and he seems now to be even with me, only pretty far back. I signal to pass the trailer at 95 and signal to go back to the slow lane. By this time, the black and white passes ME like I am lollygagging !!
Still a fill gave 48 mpg, 90 hp/155# ft !!! Along the lines Larsb has noted and I ask how many of those kind of cars getting higher (48 mpg, at any level) do we have in the states?
I also test-drove the TDI Smart fortwo about 6-7 years ago in Frankfurt, but the dealer was uncooperative about getting into an export transaction. Does anyone know why Canada is getting diesel Smarts, but not the US? Is there any hope that we will be able to buy Diesel Smarts here, and why is diesel fuel selling at such a high markup over high test gasoline in the USA? Diesel can be made from lots of different petroleum feedstocks, including old motor oil, so why is disel so expensive?
The EPA and CARB have fashioned the emissions tests to eliminate all but the cleanest diesel cars. PU trucks can spew out as much as you like no problem. They are not a health risk it seems. So far the only affordable diesel car sold in all 50 states is the Jetta TDI and the Sportwagen variation. I fell in love with the little Smart diesel in Vancouver BC. Why they do not allow that fuel sipping vehicle in is near criminal. It gets an easy 70 MPG around town. And folks have gotten as high as 90 MPG. We get the gas guzzling version that cannot even beat the much bigger Yaris in real driving. A real joke. If you really like hatchbacks and high mileage the Prius is the only thing on the market. You just will not get close to the same safety, performance, braking or handling of the Golf.
Large diesel work trucks are required for America to go about it's daily business. Diesel passenger cars are not.
There's the difference.
Now, speaking personally: Would I like for ALL diesel pickups to be held to the same tight emissions standards as the passenger cars? Yes I would. But for whatever reasons, they are not.
But really, since they are sold in such small volume, it really does not matter that much. They will sell only a certain number of them regardless of the emission requirements.
Now, if there ever developed a situation where the regulators knew that a million diesel pickups would be sold every year, then that would change things and they would tighten up on the requirements.
My guess is that part of the reason the regs are so tight on diesel cars is because they know that heavy-duty diesel work vehicles, trucks, buses, and off-road devices are doing so much polluting.
And the ports that keep bringing foreign fuel guzzlers into the country?
It is that kind of insane and elitest thinking that keeps gets and keeps us in perpetual trouble !! It is sort of like the spoiled prince who commits a transgression (our legislators and the food chain) so to teach him a lesson they execute a group of slaves in front of him and let him give the order. Nice if you are the prince/princess and can later intellectualize about it. Not to nice if you are the one getting executed/(denied in this analogy)
So again another example of we follow the import the fuel guzzler (36 mpg) and keep out the fuel sipper (70 mpg) So what has really changed????
link title
The 280 # ft of torque (I4) dwarfs any (gasser) Honda Accord available here, even a V6 @ 254 # ft link title
(On more than a few ocassions) I have done 584 miles in slightly less than 6.25 hours, driving and filled with 12.1 gals (point that fuel lamp and buzzer goes off and finding the next station) in an 03 Jetta TDI. This particular instance was between 2000 ft to 6,600 altitudes with the A/C blasting half the trip (viva Las Vegas!
It does beat the Yaris by 5 mpg or so. Not a lot, but it is there. Taller gearing and a leaner air-fuel ratio would stretch that out to 10 or more, but that would just make the "it's too slow" crybabies even more whiny.
Having said that, I'd take a 1 liter 60 hp/ 100 ft-lb turbodiesel smart the second after it was announced.
I'd hazard a guess that a new-gen diesel in the 451 with roughly equivalent performance as the gasser would get maybe 60-65 in mixed use, with straight highway mileage stretching into the low 70s.
How to sell diesel to Americans
I called Ford executive Mark Fields a "wuss" in my AutoWeek column because he would not commit to bringing to our shores the charming Fiesta with the optional diesel engine. Gasoline power, yes; that Fiesta is scheduled to arrive within the year (from Mexico).
But no diesels. The mileage for the gas engine is rated at a so-so (for a small car) 35 mpg. The diesel gets almost double that.
Mark has that lovely title at Ford--Head of All the Americas--so the power is his. I dissed him because he chose to operate from the safe, wussy notion that Americans won't buy diesel.
True, that conviction is easier than ever to defend these days. While Europeans were where we are now with diesel use a dozen years ago, that use has zoomed to more than half of all cars on the road in Europe being diesel-powered. Some countries are 90 percent diesel. Yes, of course, taxation and driving conditions are different there. And, Americans have never cottoned to the European ideal of sporty wagons and hatchbacks, mostly on the small side and mostly well-appointed.
In addition, three things make diesel an even tougher sell in the United States at the moment:
I am a bit surprised you'd go for something like a Tiguan. I'd figure a Kia Borrego with the 3L V6 turbodiesel would be more your style.
An increase of 7% from december.
At a coast of 17 billion dollars DAM way to much money going over seas.
This is the engine that was going to be delivered in '10 Acura TSXs, but probably won't be now.
Part of why I bought a gas TSX last year was to be able to trade it in for one of the diesels. Oh well. . . Plus which, they put a beak on the car that I don't much care for.
Also, better availability of Diesel fuel in my area (west central Wisconsin) would help.
It's a chicken-or-egg dilemma: more Diesels would be sold if Diesel fuel was more widely sold; which it would be if there were more Diesel vehicles; which there would be if...
As owner of one such vehicle, I can tell you that HD diesel pickups have gone through far more emissions tightening than any other "light" vehicle. Cummins had to re-engineer the diesel they provide to Dodge in 1994, 1998, 2002, 2004, and 2007 to meet constantly changing emissions regs. My 1996 was completely mechanical... no electronics anywhere (once running, you could disconnect the batteries and it would continue until you cut off the air or fuel), but still had a cat-con. My 2005 has computer-controlled everything including three-shot fuel injectors to reduce unburned fuel events (it also cost me about 10-15% in fuel economy).
There is no visible exhaust on my 2005 unless I induce smoke by doing something patently stupid like redlining it when the engine's ice cold.
Another round of diesel regs arrive Jan 1 2010... although Cummins opted to meet those regs with their 2007 redesign. There will be a revised Duramax for Chevy/GMC, and since they ended their contract with Navistar, Ford will likely have their new in-house diesel ready by then.
How many times have gasoline emissions regs changed since 1994?
kcram - Pickups/Wagons Host
RUG $2.11
PUG $2.31
D2 $2.25
New diesel engine break in is a pain, 50-60,000 miles till full compression
On the other hand, a 03 MY diesel @ 114,000 miles is and has been getting ITS' best mpg. These global warming "cold" winters have taken their toll- only 50-51 mpg! :lemon: It also doesn't help that just recently the oem tires were switched out @ 112,000 miles! Here's hoping for the next 100,000 miles (target 200,000 miles) :shades:
RUG $ 2.09
PUG $ 2.39
D2 $ 2.03
When one compares like models 03 VW's 2.0 Rug/1.8T PUG..... !!!! But I am already too guilty of preaching to the choir. :lemon:
Indeed, am seriously thinking of it. Lots of talk of owner loyalty ( previously NOT for the TDI's) of late. The big HOWEVER is despite 114,000 miles, I actually am starting to really like it !
This is even in direct comparison to the 09 MY !!! 140 hp/236# ft (vs 90 hp/155# ft) and the DSG (direct shift gearbox) really makes it quite a different car not to mention the fact it feels more" BMW like" Funny thing however is the 09 MY, even during break in gets better mpg than the Civic, albeit 4-6 mpg !!!!
..."Mikulski’s proposal would grant a tax credit for vehicles bought between Nov. 12 of last year and Dec. 31 of this year. The tax break would only go to families making less than $250,000 a year, and would only apply to interest on loans up to $49,500."...
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..."Buyers would still pay the regular state sales tax on your new car or truck, but then you could deduct that tax on your federal income tax. You can do the same thing with the interest payment on your car loan."...
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We have already cited the specific models in past posts for the clean burn (D2) alternative vehicle tax credits.
Every little bit helps even as 2/3 are not really diesel specific.
gagrice, "Report Your Local Gas Prices Here" #8453, 13 Feb 2009 10:26 am
If this trend continues and lasts for a while, there's going to be a bump in demand for diesel rigs.
Refiners have throttled back on gasoline production due to the rather notable drop in miles driven over the past year, which apparently is continuing even after gas prices recovered from last summer. Oil is still below $40 a barrel, but gasoline has risen over 20 cents since the start of the year - refiners have stated they have no interest in producing excess gasoline when demand is dropping. OTOH, diesel has continued its slower but steadier decline. Diesel's demand is steadier due to the truck, bus, and rail industries, thus its continued decline along with oil's barrel price.
Here in NJ where the gas/diesel price split had been more severe, diesel can be had for $1.999 if you look around, and it's equal to or within cents of premium unleaded at many stations. At the current pace of gasoline increase and diesel decrease, diesel should catch regular unleaded this spring.
Article: Sun-Sentinel Feb 15 2009 - "The price of crude oil falls to yearly low, but gas goes ever higher - what gives?"
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