Funny, sounds like they are still maybe a little miffed that the Lexus brand is virtually irrelevant in Europe.
"“Even in markets where you wouldn’t think people would want to buy hybrids we’re selling a lot of hybrids,” said Templin, pointing to the Middle East and US markets."
Huh? Americans embraced the hybrid early on. Suits, what can't they do. A couple of the comments on that story are pretty idiotic, too, as to be expected from the best nanny state.
There will be a diesel hybrid in at least the upcoming new C-class, and probably others - best of both worlds. The Germans can admit it - but can the hubris-filled overpaid empty-suit execs at Toyolex?
@Stever@Edmunds said:
"If we look 10, 20, 30 years down the road we don’t see the future in diesel. It’s kind of like a feather in our cap that the Germans are now starting to sell their first hybrids.
@gagrice said:
Record cold temps dating pre automobile. What happened to the GW we were looking forward to? Not the same as Hell freezing over but close.
And here I was looking forward to having my place near beach front property without moving ! I really want to wear my Tommy Bahama's wardrobe during "winter," so sad !
Saying there is no global warming because it is cold outside is kinda like saying there is no such thing as a sun because it's night time outside your house
I would think that cold weather extremes, such as being created by current alterations in the Jet Stream (due to global warming...ahem...) are not good news for diesel--they tend to misbehave when it gets really cold outside, unless you are pro-active with fuel additives and block warmers.
Also, demand for home heating oil is bound to drive diesel prices up.
@Stever@Edmunds said:
"If we look 10, 20, 30 years down the road we don’t see the future in diesel. It’s kind of like a feather in our cap that the Germans are now starting to sell their first hybrids.
The news that Lexus sees no future in diesels could come as a shock to parent company Toyota, which relies heavily on diesel-powered models to lead the market."
What do you expect out of a flash in the pan Luxury brand? They offered a good alternative to MB in the 1990s. They went to Foo Foo vehicles and are not even close to catching MB or BMW.
@MrShift@Edmunds said:
Saying there is no global warming because it is cold outside is kinda like saying there is no such thing as a sun because it's night time outside your house
I would think that cold weather extremes, such as being created by current alterations in the Jet Stream (due to global warming...ahem...) are not good news for diesel--they tend to misbehave when it gets really cold outside, unless you are pro-active with fuel additives and block warmers.
Also, demand for home heating oil is bound to drive diesel prices up.
Don't plan to be anywhere that has extremes. Speaking of heating oil. Less people are using heating oil than wood to heat their homes. Just read where the EPA would like to ban wood stoves. Or make them so expensive they would not be an option. The Ironic part is Obama paid for 30% of my Wood Stove Fireplace insert 3 years ago and it will not pass the new regulations.
"There's not a stove in the United States that can pass the test right now — this is the death knoll of any wood burning," Reg Kelly, the founder of Earth Outdoor Furnaces in Mountain Grove, told Missouri lawmakers during a recent hearing.
More than three dozen Missouri lawmakers have co-sponsored a bill that would symbolically fight back against the EPA by declaring that "All Missourians have a right to heat their homes and businesses using wood-burning furnaces, stoves, fireplaces and heaters."
There are about 12 million wood stoves in U.S. homes, including about 9 million that are less than half as efficient as the newer stoves, according to the EPA. The agency's proposed rules would not affect stoves already in homes.
Most people who own wood stoves have other means of heat, such as electric or gas furnaces. But about 2 percent U.S. homes rely on wood as their primary heating source — a figure that has been rising over the past decade.
BMW seems to be the runaway leader, at least in sales. In terms of "image", or name-dropping among consumers of luxury goods, Lexus is a formidable competitor. But alas, not for "drivers".
@ruking1 said:
And here I was looking forward to having my place near beach front property without moving ! I really want to wear my Tommy Bahama's wardrobe during "winter," so sad !
We have had some nice days this winter in So CA. Not as warm as the LIARS in the NWS would have people believe. What has been warmer is the over night lows are not near normal. Not a single frost this year at the 2000 foot level. If we get a late frost which has happened we will lose all our fruit that is already setting on. There is CC, just not buying the Politicians agenda.
Doesn't matter. The nations of the world don't have the political will to do anything about CC, so we're stuck with whatever happens. It's too late. But humans are adaptable, one way or the other.
I am really concerned about fuel costs though. Every rise in fuel prices sucks huge amounts of money out of the economy.
@MrShift@Edmunds said:
Saying there is no global warming because it is cold outside is kinda like saying there is no such thing as a sun because it's night time outside your house
I would think that cold weather extremes, such as being created by current alterations in the Jet Stream (due to global warming...ahem...) are not good news for diesel--they tend to misbehave when it gets really cold outside, unless you are pro-active with fuel additives and block warmers.
Also, demand for home heating oil is bound to drive diesel prices up.
Well no, your first paragraph is called W,S,S,F WINTER SPRING SUMMER FALL and has been going on for as long as I have been alive.
The "consequences" of GW ing (per the global warming crowd, now known as the Global Climate change set) is more the beach front properties where NONE has existed for an eon or two. The Sahara Desert was once a very lush and fertile area. Did they not sacrifice enough vestal virgins then? We might as well blame George Bush for the Sahara fertile plains turning to DESERT !!! So sad !
As for the seasonality of diesel prices, that has been going on for as long as they have been using heating oil to heat homes. Indeed the volume and percentage of homes using heating oil has been declining for decades. The main obstacles have been the infrastructure/s to get natural gas to the points of consumption.
Thanks for posting a link to that AWD article. Here in the North East, you don't see a luxury nameplate sedan without the "badge du jour" denoting it has AWD. The lack of AWD availability in any low to moderately priced diesel powered vehicle will be a big proponent in steering me towards another gasser when the lease is up on my 328xi this coming September. I'm going to test drive a couple of Subarus (Forester & current generation Legacy) as well as a couple of Jettas (SE 1.8T Gasser & TDI). I plan on leasing again, so short term (3 years/45K miles), I'm not sure if the diesel would work out in my favor. The TDI costs more initially, runs on very costly ($4.499/Gal) ULSD, and will be equipped with the DSG transmission that will require a costly service. Unless I could sell it for literally thousands more than its stated residual value to break even.
Speaking of heating oil. I'm getting slaughtered. 3.42/gal, 3.49/gal, 3.60/gal, & if I didn't take a 6 month "price cap" of $3.54, then it would have been 3.76 yesterday
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Doesn't matter. The nations of the world don't have the political will to do anything about CC, so we're stuck with whatever happens. It's too late. But humans are adaptable, one way or the other.
I am really concerned about fuel costs though. Every rise in fuel prices sucks huge amounts of money out of the economy.
I think countries like Australia and Canada have come to the same conclusion. So rather than make their constituents pay through the nose for essentials like electricity, they will just do their best not to add more than necessary to the GHG. Even Japan is not close to meeting their own Kyoto goals.
I think fuel at $4 plus or minus is the new norm. We are about 40 cents below this time last year on Costco RUG. Not sure about diesel price as I was not buying any last year this time. I cannot see how pumping all the dollars into the World economy the price of oil can come down. Even with new found reserves in places like Nevada. The cost of extracting shale oil will probably keep it around $100. I was hoping high priced fuel would keep more people off the roads. It is worse than ever around here. And we are still in the recession at 9% unemployment Still better than the agricultural areas that are above 20%. You just happen to be in the only part of the state that is not depressed with under 5% unemployed.
@Stever@Edmunds said:
Guess you've never lived places with two seasons. Winter and construction season.
I have tried to assiduously avoid those places. When I have been "sent" there, one of course has to make the best of it. The home improvement show "Home Time" really makes me appreciate where I currently am.
Speaking of heating oil. I'm getting slaughtered. 3.42/gal, 3.49/gal, 3.60/gal, & if I didn't take a 6 month "price cap" of $3.54, then it would have been 3.76 yesterday
Well, at least you're still in the upper-mid $3 range.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
When I bought my house in July 2010, I "locked in" a price of $2.56 or $2.59 per gallon for the year. So mid $ & high $3 do impact my personal economy:)
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
So how much are you folks paying per month for heating (or cooling) your houses? How many that use heating oil would convert to RUG/PUG because it is cheaper per gal than heating oil?
We had a natural gas bill of $197 for Jan. and $183 for Feb. We have an electric fireplace in the bedroom that gets used for thirty minutes most winter evenings, and the electric bill was $119 for Jan. A summer electric bill (no AC) is closer to $60 and NG gets down around $15. We have R57 in the attic but little or no insulation in the walls, ~2700 sq. ft. Most of the electric here is from hydro.
Wikipedia says there's only 4 "oil" power stations generating electricity in Michigan. 66% of the generation is from coal.
@nyccarguy said:
When I bought my house in July 2010, I "locked in" a price of $2.56 or $2.59 per gallon for the year. So mid $ & high $3 do impact my personal economy:)
Oh, I completely understand! According to the little cheat sheet I have readily available, I paid $1.38 a gallon for #1 heating oil in April of 2004. That price had gone up to $1.77/gal by October of that year, and was $3.91 in January of 2012. I felt like I got a really good deal this year when I paid $3.76/gal in September because the price passed $4 shortly there after and has stayed steady near $4 since then.
I am thankful that I have a 1,000 gallon tank and only use ~650 of that annually (which gives me flexibility in terms of when to buy), but it is a huge cost (approximately twice my property tax) that grows, typically, much faster than my attempts to keep pace in terms of percent of income.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
@xwesx said:
I am thankful that I have a 1,000 gallon tank and only use ~650 of that annually (which gives me flexibility in terms of when to buy), but it is a huge cost (approximately twice my property tax) that grows, typically, much faster than my attempts to keep pace in terms of percent of income.
I thought you got Natural Gas in Fairbanks? Didn't they run a pipeline for gas up the Parks Hwy? I had a month this winter when we used $468 worth of propane before the price went up. Then the weather got better and I just use the wood stove on cool days. Not close to my taxes yet.
The natural gas portion: $29.27 AVG per month. (12 months/1 year in arrears, for water heater, stove, oven, furnace, (1985 furnace specification -80%, 1.09 per therm) .
Ford upped the ante in the never-ending diesel power wars for heavy duty pickups.
To counter the 385 hp/850 lb-ft Cummins available in the Ram 3500, Ford announced today that the 2015 edition of their 6.7L Power Stroke V8 diesel will be rated at 440 hp (up from 400) and 860 lb-ft (up from 800). The maximum tow rating will surpass the Ram 3500's 30,000 pounds with the F-450 now rated at 31,200 (requires gooseneck connections).
The Cummins in my 2005 Ram 3500 is 325/610, which is plenty. If someone really needs 440/860 and 31,200 pounds of trailer, they should be looking at getting a CDL and a Class 6 rig with air brakes that can not only pull that load, but more importantly, can STOP that load.
Always liked her reviews but haven't seen any by her in a while. I forget about some sedans having rear windows that only go halfway down. Never liked that, but rarely ride in the back anyway.
@ruking1 said:
Volkswagen Passat a fuelish family sedan
For a car gal, she is not keeping up with sales. The Nissan Ultima is the top selling car last month and this year. Passed up the Camry. More importantly the top selling Ford F150 sales are flat, Chevy Silverado is in the toilet down 15%. The Ram PU is up 24% and close behind Chevy. And it put the top selling car the Ultima in 4th place. I have to believe the 1/2 ton diesel is what gave the RAM the burst of sales.
@gagrice said:
For a car gal, she is not keeping up with sales. The Nissan Ultima is the top selling car last month and this year. Passed up the Camry. More importantly the top selling Ford F150 sales are flat, Chevy Silverado is in the toilet down 15%. The Ram PU is up 24% and close behind Chevy. And it put the top selling car the Ultima in 4th place. I have to believe the 1/2 ton diesel is what gave the RAM the burst of sales.
I would guess she was given a (word and probably paragraph) count and had to limit her observations and points. I am also guessing that she is also writing to the slightly over 50% audience of women who are the decision makers in car buying.
My CT Light & Power bill last month was $236.65
I got my last heating oil delivery on 1/25/2014 $722 ($3.61/gallon - 200 gallons). I'm getting another delivery tomorrow.
Oh, and another expense I'd incur if I leased a FWD TDI Jetta, 4 dedicated snow tires & wheels
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
My CT Light & Power bill last month was $236.65
I got my last heating oil delivery on 1/25/2014 $722 ($3.61/gallon - 200 gallons). I'm getting another delivery tomorrow.
Oh, and another expense I'd incur if I leased a FWD TDI Jetta, 4 dedicated snow tires & wheels
I feel real silly complaining about my utilities. Shows how utilities can really hurt those of US on fixed income or with poor paying jobs. I thought heating with propane was horrible. Propane as a byproduct of Natural Gas should be less expensive than heating oil. Both are about triple the cost of Natural Gas heat. Cheapest is still Anthracite coal.
@Stever@Edmunds said:
Until the fly ash leaks out of the holding ponds and you wind up having to buy water shipped in from three counties away.
This could be real.
I think hybrids in all wheel drive CUV applications are not worth buying. Electric motors and stressful driving like in deep snow or mud are marginal. The slight gain you may get in Urban driving to me does not outweigh the loss of utility. Such as an RX hybrid that is not recommended off road or towing more than a tent trailer. And they do not get any better mileage than a comparable diesel SUV.
It really eludes me why hybrids have WAY more hype than substance. To hear some, it is one answer to getting rid of smog, to whatever, blather....
To me, it should be as simple as: gasser engine alone gets 38 mpg . Hybrid adds 7.6 mpg 20% (or whatever) = 45.6 mpg .
So given the choice between 04 Civic getting 38 mpg (range 38-42 mpg) or 04 Prius getting 45 mpg no brainer right? , But for/@ $12,000 more.... I save 62 gals per year (15,000 miles yr). @ todays RUG price ($3.73) $231 per year/$19.27 month. The (VW Jetta TDI) diesel premium was $236 @ that time.
I will break even in, (drum roll)....51.95 years. Or if that is too theoretical, the $12,000 will buy (3,217 gals x 38 mpg) 122,252 miles of commuting. Or if you do 15,000 mile per year, 8.15 years of commuting.
So, ... folks will buy the Prius over the one that costs 12k. Fair enough !
Yet, no one thinks the Prius should cost just 20% (2,400) more or $14,400.
YET,...
People go crazy when a diesel has a premium of 2,500 ???? Yet the diesel engine advantage is 30% ?
One does not even need a cheap crack cue lator to draw a bead on this scenario.
I hate to even put it in these terms, but 50 to 55 years ago, they would not let anybody (me) out of grade school let alone 3rd/4th grade, if a problem like the above could not be solved. We didn't have calculators then let alone CHEAP !
Of course, the abacus has been around a while..... (wiki indicates 2,700 BC. Sumerian version) Did they have SUV's/CUV's back then?
Another real slow diesel news day. Fueled (509 miles) with 10 gals (14.5 gal or 229 miles of range left) the 03 Jetta TDI (going on 183,000 miles) . The mpg was probably not as good, as I ran the A/C to make sure the systems stayed in trim. (temp was adjusted so I didn't get chilled) While @ the tire guru's shop, (Touareg's tire rotation) I was surprised to learn/hear the 03 Jetta TDI is priced app 100% over what the 03 Jetta gasser would currently fetch !! So if I sell now, I would get hit for app .0328 cents per mile: depreciation. To put this in TMI terms, depreciation is app $47.62 per month to OWN. Further TMI puts cost per mile driven (today @ 4.04) fuel @ .07937. So SAD, as in 2003, fuel, per mile driven was more like .03635 or 118.4 % more today.
No, I think you miss the point. Climate change is occurring far more rapidly than in the historical past. You will, in your lifetime, see islands and coastal cities in some parts of the world disappear. This isn't a "geological" time frame.
As these changes occur, it might inspire much more rapid and creative internal combustion engine modifications and design elements, because it will become an excellent marketing and political tool---to "save the planet" and all that---even though, IMO, there is no political will to mitigate the effects of GW in any substantial way.
Also, spiking energy costs will motivate even more efficient diesel engine designs, especially in those areas requiring "heavy lifting".
Geez, I used that cheap crackulator (solar, the solar flares haven't kilt it yet, the host will get a kick out of that). It lit up $571.44 per year.
I am not sure how to add this to the discussion, but I did pay the "DIESEL" premium @ that time. Separated out by itself $236. So again, if I sold now,/183,000 or .0012896 cents per mile driven. @ that time it was a 1.31% premium. However, since the diesel sells (now in arrears) for 100% more, not a bad rate of return? (1 to 25.424 ratio, more correctly, it cuts the losses a tad)?
@MrShift@Edmunds said:
No, I think you miss the point. Climate change is occurring far more rapidly than in the historical past. You will, in your lifetime, see islands and coastal cities in some parts of the world disappear. This isn't a "geological" time frame.
Any real science to back up your prediction...or do you just believe Al Gore on faith? ABC, NBC, and ABC have climate change alarmists on tv on a weekly, if not daily basis...but it has literally been years since they had on anyone who disagreed with them, even though there are plenty of qualified scientists available. Even though the main street media only will allow one side of the discussion to be aired, the country is still split about 50/50 on the issue of man made global warming.
I think as energy costs are driven up by climate extremes of heat and cold, the most demand for new diesel tech will come from the industrial and trucking industries. These types of powerplants have a long future IMO because diesels engines can DO THE WORK! Most companies that have anything to do with diesel engines are totally on board with the science of GW, because they employ engineers, not poll takers. Companies don't survive long in the 21st century if they don't have a Plan A, B and C. We even see the US Navy working with developers of racing engines to engineer new diesel marine powerplants. Less fuel = greater range for fleet or tactical missions. Even the eggheads in the Pentagon are planning strategically for GW.
On the passenger car end of things, fuel economy and reduced emissions are a big marketing ploy---and given that hybrids and EVs and highly efficient ICEs all compete directly with diesel passenger cars, my opinion is one of a scenario of some truly brutal upcoming competition, with not a lot of market share to be stolen away, one from the other. Also diesel engines generally weigh more than their gasoline equivalents, and weight is a Holy Grail these days for automakers. 50 lbs is a big deal now.
So passenger diesel engines have to ramp up yet again, IMO, to stay competitive. If you can't get the market share, you lose the economy of scale, and you have to throw in the towel.
@Stever@Edmunds said:
The point Shifty made was that energy prices will go up, and that'll affect diesel designs.
So on to the topic, will diesel penetration continue to grow in the US or it this just a blip?
I think the instant popularity of the Ram 1500 diesel tells a lot. Ford PU sales flat this year. GM new model in the toilet down 15%. Ram PU 8000 diesels ordered first three days they are made available. Sales of Ram 1500 up 24%. I think only thing limited VW sales is lack of diesel inventory. My VW dealer has 52 Passats listed. Only 1 base model diesel and 14 premium diesels starting at $30k to over $35k. They have one mid level Touareg TDI at $59k. Out of 119 Jetta sedans only 11 TDI models. That tells me VW diesels are selling and people are letting the gassers sit on the lots. Looking for Grand Cherokee diesels is a big challenge as well. Only 12 from Mexico to the Los Angeles county line. Sill no call for a test drive from my local dealer who now has one in stock.
The Jetta may be the story here. Pickemup folks will buy the diesels for the torque, not necessarily for the fuel savings. And diesel pickups have been around for a couple of decades, moreso than cars.
A lot of people bought Heavy Duty PU trucks just to get the diesel option. With a smaller diesel PU they can have useful towing and good mileage in a 1/2 ton PU.
@Stever@Edmunds said:
Good point. Now we'll be back to the quandary of why pay so much for a "little" truck when you can get a big one for a few bucks more.
No not really!! Diesels as you have already indicated, do benefit from weight reduction (ALSO). In fact more so with diesels. Ford made a big deal about a reduction of 700#'s or so. Perhaps one reason why Ford truck sales are slow to slowing is they misread (the back lash) for UP charging $6k for the weight slash. So IF Ram can do weight slash with the diesel and NOT UP charge for the (not YET BUT inevitable) weight slash, they will be very competitive !
sidebar:
VW Touareg TDI during a not too distant past model and year "refresh," dropped 400#'s (to 4,950 #'s). Simultaneously, they kept the price similar, to dropping it. Another example is the14 AUDI Q5 (underlying VW T) TDI is a full 900#s, lighter (4,050#'s) . Making this even wilder are both torque (5.4% better) and hp are greater, which I am led to believe @ the same RANGE of rpm !!!!. The extra hp comes on @ higher rpm.
The fact that there is a sizable market for "small" trucks is perhaps more telling, albeit for a few "less bucks"
Yeah, that's everyone's question. We get a lot of posts about people wanting a smaller pickup, but when push comes to shove, will they still opt for big ones?
@MrShift@Edmunds said:
Another, albeit smaller problem, is that first-time diesel passenger car buyers are not used to turbo lag, which can be a bit unsettling for newbies.
To a certain extent, switching to a gasser TURBO can and does have the same to similar effect/s.
I would agree, but really the PREMISE/s is/are both false and misunderstood. ONE expectation is that it HAS TO or should be EXACTLY the same as a (normally aspirated) gasser. If one has a TURBO or two, why would one logically expect it to behavior like there is/ are ... NO turbo/s ????
I would always caution that if IT ( the difference) has the potential to cause gas, stick with GAS sers ! If one is OPEN to the differences, then really it is a matter of KNOWING the differences (a lot of people do not) getting use to the differences, how to use it BETTER, and whether one likes IT or NOT.
Me? I have always seen it as an opportunity to use its advantages.
Well in my experience diesel turbo lag seems a bit more pronounced, but not drastically so. Maybe this occurs more in the manual transmission models, which are the only kind I've driven lately (Jetta and Passat TDIs). On my friend's turbo diesel truck w/ automatic, I didn't notice it.
@MrShift@Edmunds said:
Well in my experience diesel turbo lag seems a bit more pronounced, but not drastically so. Maybe this occurs more in the manual transmission models, which are the only kind I've driven lately (Jetta and Passat TDIs). On my friend's turbo diesel truck w/ automatic, I didn't notice it.
I had a slight incidence with turbo lag in our Touareg TDI when trying to get going rather quickly. The engine all but died when I hit the throttle hard. Now I use the rolling start to quick acceleration without any scary moments. The 2005 Passat TDI was more prone to the little quirk on quick takeoffs.
Turbo lag in my car is present, but minor - I adapt to it. You can tell when the turbo kicks in. The new C250 I drove several days ago had more noticeable lag to me, especially right off the line, where the Bluetec just starts moving with no drama.
@houdini1 said:Any real science to back up your prediction...or do you just believe Al Gore on faith? ABC, NBC, and ABC have climate change alarmists on tv on a weekly, if not daily basis
Comments
Funny, sounds like they are still maybe a little miffed that the Lexus brand is virtually irrelevant in Europe.
"“Even in markets where you wouldn’t think people would want to buy hybrids we’re selling a lot of hybrids,” said Templin, pointing to the Middle East and US markets."
Huh? Americans embraced the hybrid early on. Suits, what can't they do. A couple of the comments on that story are pretty idiotic, too, as to be expected from the best nanny state.
There will be a diesel hybrid in at least the upcoming new C-class, and probably others - best of both worlds. The Germans can admit it - but can the hubris-filled overpaid empty-suit execs at Toyolex?
And here I was looking forward to having my place near beach front property without moving ! I really want to wear my Tommy Bahama's wardrobe during "winter," so sad !
Saying there is no global warming because it is cold outside is kinda like saying there is no such thing as a sun because it's night time outside your house
I would think that cold weather extremes, such as being created by current alterations in the Jet Stream (due to global warming...ahem...) are not good news for diesel--they tend to misbehave when it gets really cold outside, unless you are pro-active with fuel additives and block warmers.
Also, demand for home heating oil is bound to drive diesel prices up.
What do you expect out of a flash in the pan Luxury brand? They offered a good alternative to MB in the 1990s. They went to Foo Foo vehicles and are not even close to catching MB or BMW.
Also, demand for home heating oil is bound to drive diesel prices up.
Don't plan to be anywhere that has extremes. Speaking of heating oil. Less people are using heating oil than wood to heat their homes. Just read where the EPA would like to ban wood stoves. Or make them so expensive they would not be an option. The Ironic part is Obama paid for 30% of my Wood Stove Fireplace insert 3 years ago and it will not pass the new regulations.
"There's not a stove in the United States that can pass the test right now — this is the death knoll of any wood burning," Reg Kelly, the founder of Earth Outdoor Furnaces in Mountain Grove, told Missouri lawmakers during a recent hearing.
More than three dozen Missouri lawmakers have co-sponsored a bill that would symbolically fight back against the EPA by declaring that "All Missourians have a right to heat their homes and businesses using wood-burning furnaces, stoves, fireplaces and heaters."
There are about 12 million wood stoves in U.S. homes, including about 9 million that are less than half as efficient as the newer stoves, according to the EPA. The agency's proposed rules would not affect stoves already in homes.
Most people who own wood stoves have other means of heat, such as electric or gas furnaces. But about 2 percent U.S. homes rely on wood as their primary heating source — a figure that has been rising over the past decade.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/epa-wood-stove-proposal-prompt-rural-backlash-22638554
BMW seems to be the runaway leader, at least in sales. In terms of "image", or name-dropping among consumers of luxury goods, Lexus is a formidable competitor. But alas, not for "drivers".
We have had some nice days this winter in So CA. Not as warm as the LIARS in the NWS would have people believe. What has been warmer is the over night lows are not near normal. Not a single frost this year at the 2000 foot level. If we get a late frost which has happened we will lose all our fruit that is already setting on. There is CC, just not buying the Politicians agenda.
Doesn't matter. The nations of the world don't have the political will to do anything about CC, so we're stuck with whatever happens. It's too late. But humans are adaptable, one way or the other.
I am really concerned about fuel costs though. Every rise in fuel prices sucks huge amounts of money out of the economy.
Well no, your first paragraph is called W,S,S,F WINTER SPRING SUMMER FALL and has been going on for as long as I have been alive.
The "consequences" of GW ing (per the global warming crowd, now known as the Global Climate change set) is more the beach front properties where NONE has existed for an eon or two. The Sahara Desert was once a very lush and fertile area. Did they not sacrifice enough vestal virgins then? We might as well blame George Bush for the Sahara fertile plains turning to DESERT !!! So sad !
As for the seasonality of diesel prices, that has been going on for as long as they have been using heating oil to heat homes. Indeed the volume and percentage of homes using heating oil has been declining for decades. The main obstacles have been the infrastructure/s to get natural gas to the points of consumption.
Guess you've never lived places with two seasons. Winter and construction season.
@ruking1
Thanks for posting a link to that AWD article. Here in the North East, you don't see a luxury nameplate sedan without the "badge du jour" denoting it has AWD. The lack of AWD availability in any low to moderately priced diesel powered vehicle will be a big proponent in steering me towards another gasser when the lease is up on my 328xi this coming September. I'm going to test drive a couple of Subarus (Forester & current generation Legacy) as well as a couple of Jettas (SE 1.8T Gasser & TDI). I plan on leasing again, so short term (3 years/45K miles), I'm not sure if the diesel would work out in my favor. The TDI costs more initially, runs on very costly ($4.499/Gal) ULSD, and will be equipped with the DSG transmission that will require a costly service. Unless I could sell it for literally thousands more than its stated residual value to break even.
Speaking of heating oil. I'm getting slaughtered. 3.42/gal, 3.49/gal, 3.60/gal, & if I didn't take a 6 month "price cap" of $3.54, then it would have been 3.76 yesterday
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Doesn't matter. The nations of the world don't have the political will to do anything about CC, so we're stuck with whatever happens. It's too late. But humans are adaptable, one way or the other.
I am really concerned about fuel costs though. Every rise in fuel prices sucks huge amounts of money out of the economy.
I think countries like Australia and Canada have come to the same conclusion. So rather than make their constituents pay through the nose for essentials like electricity, they will just do their best not to add more than necessary to the GHG. Even Japan is not close to meeting their own Kyoto goals.
I think fuel at $4 plus or minus is the new norm. We are about 40 cents below this time last year on Costco RUG. Not sure about diesel price as I was not buying any last year this time. I cannot see how pumping all the dollars into the World economy the price of oil can come down. Even with new found reserves in places like Nevada. The cost of extracting shale oil will probably keep it around $100. I was hoping high priced fuel would keep more people off the roads. It is worse than ever around here. And we are still in the recession at 9% unemployment Still better than the agricultural areas that are above 20%. You just happen to be in the only part of the state that is not depressed with under 5% unemployed.
I have tried to assiduously avoid those places. When I have been "sent" there, one of course has to make the best of it. The home improvement show "Home Time" really makes me appreciate where I currently am.
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Well, at least you're still in the upper-mid $3 range.
@xwesx
When I bought my house in July 2010, I "locked in" a price of $2.56 or $2.59 per gallon for the year. So mid $ & high $3 do impact my personal economy:)
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
So how much are you folks paying per month for heating (or cooling) your houses? How many that use heating oil would convert to RUG/PUG because it is cheaper per gal than heating oil?
We had a natural gas bill of $197 for Jan. and $183 for Feb. We have an electric fireplace in the bedroom that gets used for thirty minutes most winter evenings, and the electric bill was $119 for Jan. A summer electric bill (no AC) is closer to $60 and NG gets down around $15. We have R57 in the attic but little or no insulation in the walls, ~2700 sq. ft. Most of the electric here is from hydro.
Wikipedia says there's only 4 "oil" power stations generating electricity in Michigan. 66% of the generation is from coal.
Oh, I completely understand! According to the little cheat sheet I have readily available, I paid $1.38 a gallon for #1 heating oil in April of 2004. That price had gone up to $1.77/gal by October of that year, and was $3.91 in January of 2012. I felt like I got a really good deal this year when I paid $3.76/gal in September because the price passed $4 shortly there after and has stayed steady near $4 since then.
I am thankful that I have a 1,000 gallon tank and only use ~650 of that annually (which gives me flexibility in terms of when to buy), but it is a huge cost (approximately twice my property tax) that grows, typically, much faster than my attempts to keep pace in terms of percent of income.
I thought you got Natural Gas in Fairbanks? Didn't they run a pipeline for gas up the Parks Hwy? I had a month this winter when we used $468 worth of propane before the price went up. Then the weather got better and I just use the wood stove on cool days. Not close to my taxes yet.
Hm, a rough estimate shows that our natural gas bill is about the same as our tax bill. Around $700.
The natural gas portion: $29.27 AVG per month. (12 months/1 year in arrears, for water heater, stove, oven, furnace, (1985 furnace specification -80%, 1.09 per therm) .
Ford upped the ante in the never-ending diesel power wars for heavy duty pickups.
To counter the 385 hp/850 lb-ft Cummins available in the Ram 3500, Ford announced today that the 2015 edition of their 6.7L Power Stroke V8 diesel will be rated at 440 hp (up from 400) and 860 lb-ft (up from 800). The maximum tow rating will surpass the Ram 3500's 30,000 pounds with the F-450 now rated at 31,200 (requires gooseneck connections).
http://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2014/03/05/new-2015-ford-f-series-super-duty-will-deliver-best-in-class-hor.html
The Cummins in my 2005 Ram 3500 is 325/610, which is plenty. If someone really needs 440/860 and 31,200 pounds of trailer, they should be looking at getting a CDL and a Class 6 rig with air brakes that can not only pull that load, but more importantly, can STOP that load.
Volkswagen Passat a fuelish family sedan
Associated Press By ANN M. JOB
8 hours ago
news.yahoo.com/volkswagen-passat-fuelish-family-sedan-172507433.html
Always liked her reviews but haven't seen any by her in a while. I forget about some sedans having rear windows that only go halfway down. Never liked that, but rarely ride in the back anyway.
For a car gal, she is not keeping up with sales. The Nissan Ultima is the top selling car last month and this year. Passed up the Camry. More importantly the top selling Ford F150 sales are flat, Chevy Silverado is in the toilet down 15%. The Ram PU is up 24% and close behind Chevy. And it put the top selling car the Ultima in 4th place. I have to believe the 1/2 ton diesel is what gave the RAM the burst of sales.
I would guess she was given a (word and probably paragraph) count and had to limit her observations and points. I am also guessing that she is also writing to the slightly over 50% audience of women who are the decision makers in car buying.
@ruking
My CT Light & Power bill last month was $236.65
I got my last heating oil delivery on 1/25/2014 $722 ($3.61/gallon - 200 gallons). I'm getting another delivery tomorrow.
Oh, and another expense I'd incur if I leased a FWD TDI Jetta, 4 dedicated snow tires & wheels
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I feel real silly complaining about my utilities. Shows how utilities can really hurt those of US on fixed income or with poor paying jobs. I thought heating with propane was horrible. Propane as a byproduct of Natural Gas should be less expensive than heating oil. Both are about triple the cost of Natural Gas heat. Cheapest is still Anthracite coal.
Until the fly ash leaks out of the holding ponds and you wind up having to buy water shipped in from three counties away.
This could be real.
There Is A Diesel Ford Focus ST Coming But Don't Call It The Focus STD (jalopnik.com)
These aren't likely:
Subaru hints at plug-in hybrid diesel crossover with Viziv 2 concept (autonews.com)
Bentley Might Put A Diesel In Its SUV But Probably Won't (jalopnik.com)
This could be real.
I think hybrids in all wheel drive CUV applications are not worth buying. Electric motors and stressful driving like in deep snow or mud are marginal. The slight gain you may get in Urban driving to me does not outweigh the loss of utility. Such as an RX hybrid that is not recommended off road or towing more than a tent trailer. And they do not get any better mileage than a comparable diesel SUV.
It really eludes me why hybrids have WAY more hype than substance. To hear some, it is one answer to getting rid of smog, to whatever, blather....
To me, it should be as simple as: gasser engine alone gets 38 mpg . Hybrid adds 7.6 mpg 20% (or whatever) = 45.6 mpg .
So given the choice between 04 Civic getting 38 mpg (range 38-42 mpg) or 04 Prius getting 45 mpg no brainer right? , But for/@ $12,000 more.... I save 62 gals per year (15,000 miles yr). @ todays RUG price ($3.73) $231 per year/$19.27 month. The (VW Jetta TDI) diesel premium was $236 @ that time.
I will break even in, (drum roll)....51.95 years. Or if that is too theoretical, the $12,000 will buy (3,217 gals x 38 mpg) 122,252 miles of commuting. Or if you do 15,000 mile per year, 8.15 years of commuting.
So, ... folks will buy the Prius over the one that costs 12k. Fair enough !
Yet, no one thinks the Prius should cost just 20% (2,400) more or $14,400.
YET,...
People go crazy when a diesel has a premium of 2,500 ???? Yet the diesel engine advantage is 30% ?
One does not even need a cheap crack cue lator to draw a bead on this scenario.
I hate to even put it in these terms, but 50 to 55 years ago, they would not let anybody (me) out of grade school let alone 3rd/4th grade, if a problem like the above could not be solved. We didn't have calculators then let alone CHEAP !
Of course, the abacus has been around a while..... (wiki indicates 2,700 BC. Sumerian version)
Did they have SUV's/CUV's back then?
Another real slow diesel news day. Fueled (509 miles) with 10 gals (14.5 gal or 229 miles of range left) the 03 Jetta TDI (going on 183,000 miles) . The mpg was probably not as good, as I ran the A/C to make sure the systems stayed in trim. (temp was adjusted so I didn't get chilled) While @ the tire guru's shop, (Touareg's tire rotation) I was surprised to learn/hear the 03 Jetta TDI is priced app 100% over what the 03 Jetta gasser would currently fetch !! So if I sell now, I would get hit for app .0328 cents per mile: depreciation. To put this in TMI terms, depreciation is app $47.62 per month to OWN. Further TMI puts cost per mile driven (today @ 4.04) fuel @ .07937. So SAD, as in 2003, fuel, per mile driven was more like .03635 or 118.4 % more today.
king, beware the thousand dollar car even if it's a diesel...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsbJA9RM4Cc&feature=kp
No, I think you miss the point. Climate change is occurring far more rapidly than in the historical past. You will, in your lifetime, see islands and coastal cities in some parts of the world disappear. This isn't a "geological" time frame.
As these changes occur, it might inspire much more rapid and creative internal combustion engine modifications and design elements, because it will become an excellent marketing and political tool---to "save the planet" and all that---even though, IMO, there is no political will to mitigate the effects of GW in any substantial way.
Also, spiking energy costs will motivate even more efficient diesel engine designs, especially in those areas requiring "heavy lifting".
Geez, I used that cheap crackulator (solar, the solar flares haven't kilt it yet, the host will get a kick out of that). It lit up $571.44 per year.
I am not sure how to add this to the discussion, but I did pay the "DIESEL" premium @ that time. Separated out by itself $236. So again, if I sold now,/183,000 or .0012896 cents per mile driven. @ that time it was a 1.31% premium. However, since the diesel sells (now in arrears) for 100% more, not a bad rate of return? (1 to 25.424 ratio, more correctly, it cuts the losses a tad)?
Any real science to back up your prediction...or do you just believe Al Gore on faith? ABC, NBC, and ABC have climate change alarmists on tv on a weekly, if not daily basis...but it has literally been years since they had on anyone who disagreed with them, even though there are plenty of qualified scientists available. Even though the main street media only will allow one side of the discussion to be aired, the country is still split about 50/50 on the issue of man made global warming.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The point Shifty made was that energy prices will go up, and that'll affect diesel designs.
So on to the topic, will diesel penetration continue to grow in the US or it this just a blip?
I think as energy costs are driven up by climate extremes of heat and cold, the most demand for new diesel tech will come from the industrial and trucking industries. These types of powerplants have a long future IMO because diesels engines can DO THE WORK! Most companies that have anything to do with diesel engines are totally on board with the science of GW, because they employ engineers, not poll takers. Companies don't survive long in the 21st century if they don't have a Plan A, B and C. We even see the US Navy working with developers of racing engines to engineer new diesel marine powerplants. Less fuel = greater range for fleet or tactical missions. Even the eggheads in the Pentagon are planning strategically for GW.
On the passenger car end of things, fuel economy and reduced emissions are a big marketing ploy---and given that hybrids and EVs and highly efficient ICEs all compete directly with diesel passenger cars, my opinion is one of a scenario of some truly brutal upcoming competition, with not a lot of market share to be stolen away, one from the other. Also diesel engines generally weigh more than their gasoline equivalents, and weight is a Holy Grail these days for automakers. 50 lbs is a big deal now.
So passenger diesel engines have to ramp up yet again, IMO, to stay competitive. If you can't get the market share, you lose the economy of scale, and you have to throw in the towel.
I think the instant popularity of the Ram 1500 diesel tells a lot. Ford PU sales flat this year. GM new model in the toilet down 15%. Ram PU 8000 diesels ordered first three days they are made available. Sales of Ram 1500 up 24%. I think only thing limited VW sales is lack of diesel inventory. My VW dealer has 52 Passats listed. Only 1 base model diesel and 14 premium diesels starting at $30k to over $35k. They have one mid level Touareg TDI at $59k. Out of 119 Jetta sedans only 11 TDI models. That tells me VW diesels are selling and people are letting the gassers sit on the lots. Looking for Grand Cherokee diesels is a big challenge as well. Only 12 from Mexico to the Los Angeles county line. Sill no call for a test drive from my local dealer who now has one in stock.
The Jetta may be the story here. Pickemup folks will buy the diesels for the torque, not necessarily for the fuel savings. And diesel pickups have been around for a couple of decades, moreso than cars.
A lot of people bought Heavy Duty PU trucks just to get the diesel option. With a smaller diesel PU they can have useful towing and good mileage in a 1/2 ton PU.
Good point. Now we'll be back to the quandary of why pay so much for a "little" truck when you can get a big one for a few bucks more.
No not really!! Diesels as you have already indicated, do benefit from weight reduction (ALSO). In fact more so with diesels. Ford made a big deal about a reduction of 700#'s or so. Perhaps one reason why Ford truck sales are slow to slowing is they misread (the back lash) for UP charging $6k for the weight slash. So IF Ram can do weight slash with the diesel and NOT UP charge for the (not YET BUT inevitable) weight slash, they will be very competitive !
sidebar:
VW Touareg TDI during a not too distant past model and year "refresh," dropped 400#'s (to 4,950 #'s). Simultaneously, they kept the price similar, to dropping it. Another example is the14 AUDI Q5 (underlying VW T) TDI is a full 900#s, lighter (4,050#'s) . Making this even wilder are both torque (5.4% better) and hp are greater, which I am led to believe @ the same RANGE of rpm !!!!. The extra hp comes on @ higher rpm.
The fact that there is a sizable market for "small" trucks is perhaps more telling, albeit for a few "less bucks"
Yeah, that's everyone's question. We get a lot of posts about people wanting a smaller pickup, but when push comes to shove, will they still opt for big ones?
Another, albeit smaller problem, is that first-time diesel passenger car buyers are not used to turbo lag, which can be a bit unsettling for newbies.
To a certain extent, switching to a gasser TURBO can and does have the same to similar effect/s.
I would agree, but really the PREMISE/s is/are both false and misunderstood. ONE expectation is that it HAS TO or should be EXACTLY the same as a (normally aspirated) gasser. If one has a TURBO or two, why would one logically expect it to behavior like there is/ are ... NO turbo/s ????
I would always caution that if IT ( the difference) has the potential to cause gas, stick with GAS sers ! If one is OPEN to the differences, then really it is a matter of KNOWING the differences (a lot of people do not) getting use to the differences, how to use it BETTER, and whether one likes IT or NOT.
Me? I have always seen it as an opportunity to use its advantages.
Well in my experience diesel turbo lag seems a bit more pronounced, but not drastically so. Maybe this occurs more in the manual transmission models, which are the only kind I've driven lately (Jetta and Passat TDIs). On my friend's turbo diesel truck w/ automatic, I didn't notice it.
I had a slight incidence with turbo lag in our Touareg TDI when trying to get going rather quickly. The engine all but died when I hit the throttle hard. Now I use the rolling start to quick acceleration without any scary moments. The 2005 Passat TDI was more prone to the little quirk on quick takeoffs.
Turbo lag in my car is present, but minor - I adapt to it. You can tell when the turbo kicks in. The new C250 I drove several days ago had more noticeable lag to me, especially right off the line, where the Bluetec just starts moving with no drama.