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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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Along those lines:
If you don't read the news, you are not informed. If you read the news you are misinformed. -Mark Twain
In more topical news (unless you want to read about India's diesel fumes fueling glacier melt and otherwise proving lethal):
Can Diesels Rescue Cadillac From Pitifully Small Sales In Europe? (Forbes)
I am sure India does a great job with emissions standards. Not a first world area.
If Caddy wants to be relevant in Europe, it must have diesel. Few to no diesels (and a fleet of bland invisible hybrids and boring gassers) is why Lexus is a bit player there.
Actually the science is the current documentation of huge and many earlier failures to get to a particular point. The SPANISH inquisition serves as a reminder. The modern day "inquisition" call people that see climate change as a facade: DENIERS. Not much has changed eh? SOS/ DD.
LOL !
Any time there is a discussion going on, and someone says the science is settled, you immediately know two things. One, the person who said this is losing the argument, and two, the question about the science is still raging...
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Indeed.
The "Kool Aid " in 1974 to 1976 was an absolute slam dunk scientifically for (another) GLOBAL WINTER. Of course the Pentagon, albeit defense department had a plethora of plans for that "inevitability".
So not a scant generation later (BYPASSING winter and all the intricate planning coming to pass), we NOW have "KOOL AID" of a different FLAVOR, ala GLOBAL warming, aka Global Climate change, albeit Clima geddon . Put some C02 in it and we have fizzy soda.
Cheers !
Uncle Warren (Buffet) came out and said we are remarkably FREE of US hurricanes and weather related DAMAGE $$ (he owns some of the BIGGEST Insurance company's in the US) is actually DOWN.
Deep Future, by Curt Stager, is an award-winning book that charts the hard science of what's happening with global warming. Global temperatures and the global sea level are going to rise for not just decades, not just hundreds of years, but thousands of years. That seems baked into the cake. How much it's going to rise depends on what we do, but it seems likely that, for instance, quite a bit of Florida (c. 30%?) will be underwater by the year 3000. Eventually, that underwater view of New York found in Spielberg's AI seems possible....
The topic is what would it take for you to buy a diesel car.
"While hybrids are key players in the U.S. and Japanese markets they remain niche products in Europe. Combined sales of gasoline-electric, diesel-electric and plug-in hybrids in Europe rose more than 40 percent last year to 214,237 units, according to JATO Dynamics, but that resulted in an overall market share of less than 2 percent. To put it another way, Toyota’s 2013 U.S. sales for the Prius (234,228) topped the overall volume in Europe last year. The reason is that many diesel powertrains offered in Europe can match or beat the fuel economy of a hybrid at a lower starting price."
Toyota chairman says hybrids will soon have 20% global share (autonews.com)
VW Polo DIESEL that can easily post 73.5 mpg (commonly available in Europe) @ current "affordable prices" will probably not see the light of day in US markets.
"The Volkswagen Polo is one of the world's best-selling supermini cars with nearly 14 million units produced. Supermini car? At least that is the official name of the Polo class in Germany - in the international jargon of the automotive industry it is the B segment. Whatever the segment name, and regardless of its compact dimensions, attractive prices and good fuel economy values, there is nothing small about the Polo. All the more so now, because a generation of the bestseller is now making its debut which has been significantly updated technically. The new EU-6 engines and the infotainment and assistance systems of the VW Polo, in particular, have now taken enormous strides forward. Consider the engines: the entire engine range was reconfigured. Volkswagen has realised fuel economy improvements of as much as 21 per cent. The new Polo TDI BlueMotion sets a record here; with a combined fuel consumption of 3.2 l/100 km (82 g/km CO2) it is one of the most fuel-efficient cars on the planet. The Polo TSI BlueMotion, available starting autumn 2014, also marks the first time that a Volkswagen with a petrol engine is being marketed as an independent BlueMotion model. In this car, 4.1 l/100 km and 94 g/km CO2 set top values."...
netcarshow.com/volkswagen/2014-polo/
182 grams per mile 2014 Prius (www.fueleconomy.gov)
WOW !! , imagine that !! ??? Prius puts out 122% more pollution that the VW Polo DIESEL !!!!!!!!!!!! ???? One take away is that it is has NEVER been the big a deal as it has been made out to be, by the enviro cons.
It is interesting to see them (defacto) admitting as much. It is like coming out, or getting "out ed" in San Francisco during WW2 (starting in 1941): Another obvious "outing" is 49 mpg vs 73.5 mpg is ANOTHER no big deal (defacto 50% better DIESEL mpg) , aka, another admission. If this is vague to anybody, the American reality can be stated thus: Why get 73.5 mpg and emit far less pollution when 49 mpg and far more pollution will do?
Remember the bru ha hoopla that was made when Prius hit the 2 M mark ww !! ??? VW Polo has sold 14 M ww !!!! ????????? Not to confuse anyone with the math, but that is 7 TIMES more !!!!!! ????
There's the problem right there. Americans aren't knocking the doors down to buy smart cars. The Polo isn't really that small, but you can't go round calling them Superminis in the US and expect decent sales, no matter the drivetrain.
But the smart car makes no sense on any level. The fuel economy is WORSE than the popular standard economy cars, yet its slower, smaller, and no less expensive. I can get an Accent for less than a smart car. Its just silly.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Well, MB makes an electric smart car that's just arrived, if you can believe the website, and live in one of the few states where it's available. It's a ZEV Bin 1.
Whatever that means, lol. Zero emissions vs PZEV (parital) for the Prius and Jetta hybrid, and a whole laundry list of confusing definitions. Greenest Vehicles of 2014 (greenercars.org)
|(Here's one for you Ruking1 - Sales Reviews. Sounds like your kind of miles.)
WOW imagine that !! ??? Prius puts out 122% more pollution that the VW Polo DIESEL !!!!!!!!!!!! ???? One take away is that it is has NEVER been the big a deal as it has been made out to be, by the enviro cons.
Remember the bru ha hoopla that was made when Prius hit the 2 M mark ww !! ??? VW Polo has sold 14 M ww !!!! ????????? Not to confuse anyone with the math, but that is 7 TIMES more !!!!!! ????
Toyota USA is a one pony show, hybrids. They don't have the engineering skills required to make a diesel that will pass EPA/CARB.
The real American answer is the PVF is 25% " small" vehicles, 75% "LARGE" vehicles
(.gov 2011 FARS figures in arrear @ 257.5 M vehicles) .
The further narrative is that % has not changed much. I am not sure of the percentage of the the so called "MINI" segment IN the "small car" segment . I am guessing it is VERY small to barely measurable. So for example, a WW Prius 2 M vehicles, posts (a defective # of) .007767% American.
But then, I am "old enough" to be able to say the "compact" 14 CIVC , et al is/are a damned Cadillac Sedan DeVille (% wise) in comparison to the first Civics that hit the US markets.
A 2014 Civic is larger than a 1984 Cadillac Cimarron.
Civic length: 179.4 inches, width: 69, height: 56.5
Cimarron length: 177.8, width: 66.3, height: 54
And the top of the line Civic now has heated leather seats.
If anyone missed the boat on the Cimarron back in the day, you can get a larger, more powerful, and more luxurious Cimarron in today's Civic.
You answer your own question - the news only shows one side because every scientist agrees that there is global warming. Just a few quacks say otherwise. And the country is nowhere near 50/50.
Or maybe it is all a conspiracy.
Once again, let's stick to diesel cars please. We've tried the GW discussion and it just bogs down into politics and name calling.
Thanks.
And now, for some "stay on topic" encouragement......
"Somewhere inside me there's a new direction
Somewhere before me there's an open road
Can't go to sleep without that diesel singing
And somebody telling me it's time to go
Let's ride
Come on boys, let's ride
Come on boys, let's ride"
from "Ride" by Trace Adkins
In the USA the "ROAD" (itself) has almost become an icon. However, there are some interesting comparisons and contrasts with the US and European diesels. Indeed Europe's passenger vehicle fleet (FLEETS actually unless we are saying EU) is (are) larger than the USA's @ 270.5 M to 257.5 M. Europe's price of fuel is almost 2x what it is in the USA. The avg yearly mileage is 9,000 to 10,000 to 12,000 to 15,000 miles. Both have similar avg age of the PVF (passenger vehicle fleet) @ 10.5 to 12.5 years old. Yet despite a much lower avg mileage, passenger diesels are fully 50% + of the PVF vs less than 5% in the USA.
Follow the money. Some of those EU countries subsidize diesel through lower taxes vs petrol.
Indeed ! WE penalize diesels and diesel fuel thorough multiple taxation schemes and a plethora of other penalties. As it turns out, the price per mile driven is actually pretty close to the same despite say $4.00 and $8. fuel.
So for example, I have read the AVG mpg for the US PVF is (currently) 24 mpg= 16.7 cents per mile driven . Europe is closer to 48 mpg=16.7 cents per mile driven.
So it might be a leap to some, but a 50 mpg Euro car with ...... US FUEL ($4) prices ....... SO, most folks do not care about the math. Now if you ask me if I like 73.5 mpg @ $4 per gal...... It doesn't really take a lot of computing power to answer this one eh?
However over 12 years (avg age of US vehicle fleet @ 15000 per year (high average) it can begin to look like real monies @ 30,060 vs 14,400. The year avg of 10,000 vs 15,000 miles is kicker on the USA vs Euro comparison. So given the variables the US driver pays more for fuel per year than Europeans with 2x higher fuel prices.
Less GASSER cylinders are NOT the panacea ? CR raises the issue. I would guess the underlying environmental assumption is there is some how a FREE (gasser) lunch to downsizing.
autos.yahoo.com/news/consumer-reports-testers-explore-trade-offs-fewer-cylinders-163000301.html
I have mentioned it indirectly in the OIL use/consumption in the 4 cylinder TDI's.
It would be interesting to hear what (4 cylinder gasser) turbo folks experiences have been.
So, so far in 183,000 miles I have topped up with 3.05 qts (to so called "top" per time oh the high side, 1/2 qt/l )
..."Diesel made from natural gas may one day be powering cars and trucks in the United States."... aka, GTL (gas to liquids), albeit sulfur FREE, ZERO ppm.
theinfomine.com/2010/06/04/diesel-made-from-natural-gas-may-be-future-of-fuel/
Not real technical, but the RUG/PUG antidote?
money.cnn.com/2012/05/09/news/economy/natural-gas-diesel/index.htm
Perhaps this is ONE REAL HMMMMM ?????? or conundrum !!!!!.
..."The World Bank estimates that over 150 billion cubic metros of natural gas are flared or vented annually, an amount worth approximately 30.6 billion dollars, equivalent to 25 percent of the United States’ gas consumption or 30% of the European Union’s gas consumption per year,[14] a resource that could be useful using GTL."...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_to_liquids
Any to all of those numbers harnessed correctly are figurative and literal GLOBAL game changing concepts.
Crazy eh? And just think of all the water (and diesel!) being pumped into the ground to frack.
And since farmers (and elevators) are using propane to dry corn causing a supply problem for homeowners, you have to ask if the dried corn is going for human food, animal food or ... wait for it ... biofuel.
One HUGE tell would be the legislative and regulatory segments "GREEN" lighting specifications for TDI engines running UP to 100% BIODIESEL.
Seems like a fair number of states in the USA are looking to raise the tax on fuel, but sneakily, through pegging it to inflation. They need money to make up for the loss of revenues to fix up the road infrastructure.
Yeah, better mpg (gpm) means less tax revenue, no matter the fuel.
Way too funny !! They should be careful what they advocate and wish for. Just think, this is only a reduction in GROWTH of year over year INCREASES !!!
A lot of the folks who have bought the plug in electrical "KOOL AID" really don't know it yet, BUT per mile driven GAS equivalent costs MORE than gas.
The underlying principle are the "hamsters" think they are making progress because they get a lot of exercise in the wire spin cage.
I think CA raised ours again last July 1st. It also looks like the cities are getting the tax dollars and not fixing the roads and refusing to account for it. Time to revolt. CA pays the highest gas tax in the nation and almost the highest diesel tax. Twice the amount as the bottom states. Many of which have better roads than we do.
http://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas-overview/industry-economics/~/media/Files/Statistics/state-motor-fuel-taxes-report-summary.pdf
Part of the State requirements for gas tax revenue is that the cities must have separate funds established to track the money. Beaumont uses 'Fund 3', but the account is in such disarray it is of little value use as a reference. From July, 2010 to January, 2013 the Bank Statements show that the City of Beaumont has received $2,912,551.98 in gas tax funds, but the City only lists receiving $1,492,964.02 on the General Ledger.
In the last three years there is not one entry for any road-related work in Fund 3. The only expenses the City of Beaumont shows in Fund 3 is $86,333.00 for 'Administrative Overhead' and $363,018.56 paid to 'Urban Logic Consultants'.
http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/lets-make-some-smart-business-decisions/2013/may/17/california-state-gas-tax-increasing-july-1st-money/
Isn't Beaumont the city that had that big corruption scandal recently? That may not be indicative of most municipal governments, but then again I may be overly optimistic here!
The trend, clearly, is government accountability continues to decline, despite all the "transparency" measures enacted of late.
For those who subscribe to global warming, I have to ask: what is wrong with it? I just got a "WINTER " natural gas bill . Basically consumption was MINUS - 64.2 % LESS natural gas (than last year, same month) !!! ??? Needless to say, IF consumption goes down, they will probably RAISE the rates to get the same monies as when 180% more natural gas was consumed. Perhaps I should consume a lot more, (specifically 180% MORE) to keep my bill cheaper ????
Speaking of "cheaper", the gas company has to make a profit and I'd be one of the last to begrudge them that. They list the "price" they charge ( price per therm, dictated by law) BUT I am billed 138% more (TAXATION's) So $.415470 per therm (with a series of stepped penalties, even as I use 64.2 % LESS) and the bill is $.9891397 per therm.
The trend, clearly, is government accountability continues to decline, despite all the "transparency" measures enacted of late.
California has more than their fair share of corrupt cities. Beaumont is not the one that was in the news a couple years ago. That was Bell CA a part of Los Angeles County. A small city with 35k residents being ripped by their city government. Hopefully they all rot in prison.
Spaccia, 55, testified that she knew she was making too much money when her salary exceeded $340,000 but maintained it wasn’t criminal.
She was left to stand trial alone after her former boss, Robert Rizzo, pleaded no contest to 69 corruption charges.
By the end of her tenure, prosecutors said, Spaccia was making $564,000 a year in salary and other compensation. Rizzo was giving himself an annual salary and benefits package of $1.2 million. His $800,000 in wages alone was double that of the president of the United States.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/bell-calif-city-manager-found-guilty-11-corruption-charges-article-1.1542745
There were projected benefits from GW, including a massive, worldwide engineering effort to cope with it--there will be all kinds of new ideas and technologies being spawned by the upcoming adverse, benign and beneficial effects of GW that we will see in our lifetimes.
For you diesel guys--- given that the majority of the US population probably lives in the more temperate zones, lower heating costs might mean cheaper fuel, since home heating oil is essentially the same as what you buy.
The upper regions of the USA may experience very weird weather, so that's unpredictable.
I notice diesel and PUG are getting close to even at many local stations now. That might help some highline buyers make the switch.
Today in San Diego diesel is less than Premium at most stations we pass. Still 10-20 cents above RUG.
The (NorCA close to the real heart of Silcon Valley
) local Shell station prices are:
RUG $3.85,
PUG $4.05,
ULSD $4.01
Lower Michigan has been a disappointment. Gas is a quite a bit higher here than it is in the UP. I filled up at home for $3.69 (minus the grocery credit which saved me about $6). Diesel is running $4.09 (it finally nudged up a dime).
Down here most gas is $3.87 and diesel is running $4.25.
king, too many false premises in your post to count, and with many calculations and significant figures based on those. it's fortunate that you are able to stay so warm and with surplus in natural gas while others suffer extreme shortage/cold due to supply and other vortices.
is this the diesel forum?
so, what do you think about how diesel performance is great for luxo barges and pickup trucks and SUVs and general-use cars but how diesel tech is unable to compete with gas tech for performance vehicles? (I'd like VW to prove that idea wrong in USA with a GTD but i am skeptical they will do it.)
Anybody can Google this, but the new 10 to 15 ppm RUG/PUG mandate (from 30 to 90 ppm) is soon coming.
(downstream) Refiners say it will take $$$ BILLIONS in further refinery updates. How if will affect/effect consumers both short and long term is app a MINIMUM of .12 cent increase per gal. So this might sound like a very small price to pay, it is absolutely HUGE given app .05 cents is made at the pumps by the station owner. The governments (CA, Fed, Local, etc) for example make many times more.
So IF that is true, that would put RUG/PUG @ 3.97/4.17 respectively, with ULSD @ #$4.01. As most folks know ULSD went to 15 ppm nominally delivered at the pumps 7 to 10 ppm sulfur, app mid 2006. So defacto, it was already hit with price increases.
Well, you can ignore the post about a specific example of where diesel fits in the scheme of things (energy options), if it does bother you.
Absolutely nothing false in the premise/s, as NOTHING about the billing has changed EXCEPT for MINUS - 64% consumption. I'd be perfectly (even more) happy if they billed me for even far less !!! Even the power company says I pay too much! But then mine is an OLD house. More importantly build to OLD (power conservation) standards. The only variable here that seems to have shot up or expressed IS ENVY. Perhaps another is YOU in your area are experiencing the effects of global WARMING !! ??
Fuel prices as I have indicated are HIGH. Obviously due to a host of reasons (which you fail to outline) you are probably paying more.
I think you have to also remember the utter bankruptcy of the concept of solar. App midway between Gagrice and I is the Mohave Desert. Sun is about as near to 365 days a year, as any place in the USA can GET. Yet the "boutique" enviro con movement/s or enviro du jour or topic has blocked wide scale implementation of so called "solar farms". This is purely my .02 cents, but solar farms are BUTT ugly, not to mention totally inefficient, ergo poor land use. So is a better place to put a solar array (large or small) , a place that doesn't get good sun for half of the year ? Pardon me for asking this, but wouldn't that make an already inefficient system more so? We also are close to so called "wind farms". Again the enviro con movement has been enormously effect at rendering more ineffective and costly an already ineffective and costly system.
In fact, I live in an area that is literally enjoined from putting up (inefficient) solar equipment that would let me get "OFF THE GRID". (kind of like THOSE DRY Counties that makes famous US bourbon and whiskey). Indeed with batteries, I can store energy and sell back to the utility. Keep in mind it is not far from the Solyndra site. Natural Gas would NOT get me off the grid. But perhaps that/those is/are the real issue/s. eh?
So yes, if you are stuck in the quickest ZERO to 60 sec car mindset, my best advice is NOT to get a diesel (like model). I drive PERFECTLY fine without it (gasser or diesel) , EVEN as I have a car that CAN do a 4 second ZERO to 60.
Perhaps another point might be, (European ) diesels seem to be able to run at autobahn speeds (all day/night) with no problems. Indeed I have run one to all of my diesels (all day/night) without issue/s (not on the autobahn).
so, what do you think about how diesel performance is great for luxo barges and pickup trucks and SUVs and general-use cars but how diesel tech is unable to compete with gas tech for performance vehicles? (I'd like VW to prove that idea wrong in USA with a GTD but i am skeptical they will do it.)
Diesel has made SUVs into performance vehicles. Jeep, MB, BMW, Audi, VW are all selling diesel SUVs that outperform their gas counterparts. Try pulling a long 6% grade in high gear at 80 MPH in a high performance gasser, then you will know why I appreciate the Touareg TDI. While getting close to 30 MPG. I don't see any gas engines close to comparable. If racing from stop light to stop light is your thing I suppose a Premium sucking gas engine has some merit. Sub 7 seconds to 60MPH makes me smile. The 30-75 MPH needed around here merging onto the freeway is what I really appreciate after driving sluggish V8 gassers on the same on ramps.
I would have to disagree with your assessment. IMO, any money or time spent in an attempt to alter the natural warming/cooling cycles of the earth would be a total waste. Climate change is a natural phenomenon that is driven by the sun. It has always been with us and always will be, thank goodness.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
If it makes some folks happy to call it global warming, or whatever, I am ok with them living in THAT fantasy. I only take umbrage when they try to spread the REAL costs to me to solve a (fake) problem.
(I am not sure why the full quote was not pulled in, but definitely) an A men to that !!
If it makes some folks happy to call it global warming, or whatever, I am ok with them living in THAT fantasy. I only take umbrage when they try to spread the REAL costs to me to solve a (fake) problem.
I don't buy the man made GW scam either. I do try to do my part to not pollute and waste natural resources by driving a Diesel SUV, installing CFL and LED lamps when they are on sale at Costco. Not wasting water though I learned something quite interesting today. It costs the state about $60 per acre foot to acquire, store and deliver our water. Based on my last bill we the consumers are paying about $5580 per acre foot delivered to our homes. Farmers buy for as little as $3.50 per acre foot. No wonder they have cut off the CA farmers and sell to the homeowners.
Indeed, there is an ole English saying about that, BUT....
Anybody who has done any switching of CLF's LED's probably experiences the way FASTER than claimed failure rate. To boot, replacements COST many more times (more expensive) than the stuff it replaces.
Some of the stuff that "percolates through", like the water "mathematics" in your posts, would indicate why they go to the lengths they do to keep the GW SCAMS alive and TOTALLY opaque . I should not even THINK this, but it would appear the water rates will probably RISE. Artifical shortages do give in to real world pricing.
I tell about the 139 % PLUS COSTS over the power company's cost and mandated profits ( taxation) on natural gas for home heating and predictably and typically, the MESSENGER gets/got shot. I think if I run my fingers on that cheap SOLAR crack cue lator, the best thing to do is not to read the results.
Slow news diesel day. Did twin fill ups ($4.01): 03, 51 mpg /09, 45.4 mpg.
Thanks for the heads up on the Gas Buddy app for smart phones. Now, if they only had best pricing for "Hot Tamales"
Well, here's a fun one to raise some hackles.
"The tide may have finally turned for diesel in Europe. The myth of “clean” diesel is being challenged by the very same authorities who were previously those greenwashing the dirty fuel for decades. The worst pollution levels in 7 years are now choking Parisians. Paris is cloaked in smog as thick as pea soup and the culprit is in part diesel particulate according the local authorities.
The reason that US makers of diesel engines now always call them “clean” diesel is that they were forced by government action to make them stop spewing the black cloud of particulate they were well known for, as well as to bring the oxides of nitrogen they put out down to the same level of gasoline cars. It does not mean diesels are “clean” compared to hybrids or other green cars powered by gasoline, but rather compared to the choking pollution they created until they were until forced to stop."
Diesel vehicles blamed for polluting Paris air by authorities (torquenews.com)
GW is man-made OR if you can't go that far, man exacerbated, and we're going to have to do something about it. It is heavily linked to energy policy as well.
No sense making it worse by denying it. The problem really lies within scientific literacy among the general public. The scientists have less of a problem with the concept, but still a big problem with methodology.
The most interesting claim in that article is that the 2014 Toyota Corolla (gas) gets a better combined mpg that either the chevy cruze or the vw jetta (diesel). Add in the higher cost of diesel and that makes the corolla even more economical.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Well, I am talking about the stuff that happens in reality that totally up ends the FAKE GW story line/narrative. Really now, I can NOT even make this stuff up.
So here is an easy one:
IF ...."the warm a cists" really believed their own spew vector/s, why on EARTH did they rebuild (or let get rebuilt) the NYC's "World Trade Centers" ???? Osama Bin Laden helps us with urban renewal, and we rebuild something in (acknowledged flood zone) an area that will RE flood and soon, IF the spew is to be believed?
Is this an insane reaction to an insane act, eh?
Indeed, we should be GUTTING places like NYC ( I am obviously leaving OFF a lot of places) ???
Shall we use Detroit as a template? 144 square miles of (once fantastic industrial heart of USA ) city with ONLY 44 square miles of that (31%+ plus) now fallow? So how much of that area has been reclaimed by water due to global warming?
Let's see, just another small one:
300+ years ago, they build a city (New Orleans) that is BELOW sea level and some how we get continually surprised when the sea finds its own level ??? I mean they don't even make sure the "bilge pumps" systems works? Now here is a case of the (nut case) inmates running the asylum ??????
I missed that, although they did claim that gassers were more economical that similar diesels. Not sure if that's true though. Even after the other True Cost to Own stuff washes out, the better mpg of a diesel probably saves you money.
Be nice to have a Corolla diesel to directly compare.