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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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I think the same drill is happening in Fintail's area. (WA state)
Best name-brand prices in my little corner of the world are at a local Hess...
87 - $3.299
89 - $3.559
93 - $3.659
Diesel - $3.879
PUG and diesel both 3.99 at my local Chevron.
Regarding Canadians - not an impact on Seattle gas prices, but they usually keep Bellingham gas prices about 20 cents higher.
The $1000 fuel rewards card VW is offering with the purchase of a new Jetta or Passat TDI will offset a lot of price differential, which is exactly why they are offering it of course. That plus the local Giant Food discount program makes buying a diesel very attractive.
On the independent rear suspension topic: I don't think it matters one bit if the rear axle is a metal stick or an ISR at regular speeds and for commuting use on something like a Jetta. If it saves $6000, then metal stick it shall be if I was buying it as a second car.
That's interesting about the rewards card. I guess VW is aware that the typically higher pump price for diesel scares off some potential TDI buyers.
Chevron on NE 8th in Bellevue has PUG for $4.06, diesel for $3.89. It's about a block from the MB dealer, too.
This $1000 "fuel rewards card" being offered by VW a $1000 Pre Loaded Visa or Master Card. So let's do the math here (@ruking, correct me if I'm wrong): ULSD @ $4.49/ gallon. The Passat has an 18.5 Gallon Tank. So say I fill up the tank with 17.5 Gallons. $78.58 per tank. My commute is 65 miles round trip. Each day, my (theoretical) Passat would use 1.63 Gallons of fuel assuming 40 mpg. So I could fill up every 10 - 11 days. The $1000 fuel rewards card would get me about 12 tanks of ULSD. So for me it works out to approximately 3 months of "free" fuel.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
The $1000 Fuel Rewards card also lowers the price delta between the 1.8T SE w/ Sunroof & the TDI SE w/ Sunroof to $1000. The SE has 0% Financing vs. 0.9% for the TDI (I know I'm splitting hairs here). The TDI requires an AD BLUE service every 10K miles (1st 2 covered by VW) and a DSG Fluid change every 40K miles (?). The 1.8T runs on RUG. Does the TDI have what it takes to get ME "to buy a diesel car?"
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Another comparison would be to figure the price difference between regular and diesel in your area since you're going to have to pay to gas up whatever you drive.
Assume the differential is fifty cents a gallon. So figure the fuel card would save you $8.75 on that 17.5 gallon tank.
Then figure in the increased mpg you should get with diesel. And profit. :-)
I am continually amazed to see gasser folks not being able/ willing/and or both to all of the above to point out that for LIKE model vehicles that 50 mpg diesel has no $ advantage over 50 mpg gassers especially if fuel prices$$'s (RUG/PUG) are the SAME !!! So almost continually it is an apples to junk food comparison. To me, it is better to acknowledge it and .... move on. The system indeed further economically handicaps diesel and for obvious (maybe not so obvious) reasons. Two examples being 1 higher acquisition costs 2. higher taxation's schemes. The most obvious one is it is IMPOSSIBLE for say a (gasser) PRIUS to use NOT use RUG if the only choice IS RUG. Equally obvious I can NOT use RUG/PUG when I have a (current) turbo diesel !!!!!!! ???? So this disingenuousness is systemic, pervasive and in many ways hidden in plain sight.
Yes, the basis for the math is the (app) 30 to 62% diesel advantage. The system wants ALL of us to use more and of the same (RUG/PUG) and NOT less. Indeed if we use LESS, they want us to pay MORE !!!!
Yet for the type of driving I do, the turbo diesel is better adapted and for our roads. Or shall I say the roads I drive on. The fact that it is cheaper per mile driven is pure gravy (x whatever mileage one happens to do IN 10 years) . This is not even to mention much greater torque and @ low rpm !!! I also know the insurance is cheaper also. Over 10 years just these two variables can be substantial savings.
I think we've had this conversation ... if you plan on keeping the new car for more than 5-7 years then the TDI is the way to go. If not, get the 1.8T.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Well, the real issue continues @ the SECOND 5 to 7 year cycle !
NOW I am sure ALL of us are affected by some degree of "boredom", aka, from want a new Ferrari when a Smart car will do, etc., etc.
However, pretty soon (aka, using my case) 187,000 miles (11 MY's) GOEZ by !!! The passenger fleet numbers do not show that to be too much off the mark. The majority of the passenger vehicle fleet is actually getting older from 10.5 years to more like 12 years old.
The post would be (@50 mpg) 3,740 gals used (@ $4.) for $14,960. USLD vs (@26 mpg) 7,192 gals used (@ $4.13) $29,704. Needless to say, that is a LOT of money ($29,704- 14,960=) $14,744 MORE, for being "cheaper" up front ???? Of course, this is not to mention the much higher resale value of the 03 TDI over the 03 1.8 T. and lack of 2nd depreciation cycle for a 2008/09 replacement.
The Bloomberg article does not specifically mention TDI's, but most of the oem's AND models mentioned will have a ( an unknown) percentage of diesels.
bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-08/bmw-to-decide-in-coming-months-on-new-north-america-plant.html?cmpid=yhoo
@ruking
You are absolutely right! I forgot about torque! I should just think of the $1000 up charge for an "engine upgrade."
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I don't think most people argue that a diesel has no advantage over a gas engine in terms of $$$ saved on gas, but rather that the advantage is not significant enough to motivate the switch. Naturally, other factors, such as where you live and how much you drive each year, affects that perception considerably.
Good example of the dilemma facing buyers would be the Chevy Cruze Diesel. Apparently a nifty little car that competes head to head with the VW Jetta TDI, on cost, range and fuel economy. The "problem" is that it costs as much as a highly optioned upscale Cruze LTZ gas turbo.
So the buyer has to really ponder whether the LTZ, with lower mpg, suits their needs and their yearly mileage habits better than the diesel.
With a 700 mile range and a real world average of say 44 mpg (same as the Jetta), the Cruze diesel could be, maybe, the car that can steal Jetta TDI market share, as well as take that bad diesel taste out of American drivers mouths, once and for all.
If you live in San Diego, Diesel is now the cheaper alternative. Most discount stations have diesel for less than RUG. Costco is at $3.85 for RUG. Wish they would start selling diesel.
http://www.sandiegogasprices.com/ARCO_Gas_Stations/Carlsbad/23330/index.aspx
http://www.sandiegogasprices.com/Shell_Gas_Stations/Carlsbad/162990/index.aspx
IF a LOT of real money is not one "significant enough" reason to motivate a "switch",(from gasser to diesel) I have ALWAYS been ok with that. I take umbrage with efforts quashing or limiting choices like being able to (economically) buy (i.e.,) a like or lower priced diesel.
Another disingenuous (might be too strong a word) one that I ran into in 2004 was the 25,000 Prius 20,000 Honda Civic hybrid, 15,000 Corolla, sub 13,000 Honda Civic. F/F, the Civic has been the proverbial trooper. But more on topic, I would be even happier with a Civic TDI. World wide indicators lead me to swag 52 mpg for a Civic TDI. So given no Civic TDI, the Civic gasser was a no brainer. So while I am not unhappy with the Civic gasser's 38 to 42 mpg, ah .... 52 mpg would have been 14 mpg to 10 mpg better. It would even get (way 52 vs 43 mpg) better mileage than the much higher priced Prius and a price difference of app $12,000 MORE is almost a joke to break even over a Civic TDI. Needless to say there would have been a significant fuel savings in addition.
Gasser users have very short memories when it comes to RLG, aka regular LEADED gasoline as opposed to RUG, UN leaded gasoline. The regulations @ that time should have been to implement LSD to ULSD WAY sooner. So a lot of the so called brouhaha can be laid @ the feet of the legislative to enforcement agencies.
I can offer up the 2003 TDI designed (it actually goes much farther back than 2003) for ULSD and by law's and REGULATION's ULSD not being available on the open markets.
So how well would vehicles designed for RUG do with RLG ??
Further RUG to PUG have been WAY dirtier than diesel fuel. 15 ppm sulfur ULSD nominally delivered @ the pump 7 to 10 ppm vs RUG/PUG 30 to 90 ppm sulfur. So RUG/PUG fuel is 2 to 13 TIMES dirtier. YET despite the facts and figures, diesel is called dirtier !!!! ??????
Further disingenuousness is (the ZERO ppm) biodiesel. In effect an economic choke hold is around biodiesel.
We have to assign biodiesel a fake number (of 1 ppm sulfur) to make sense of RUG/PUG being 30 to 90 TIMES dirtier] !! ???? YET again, biodiesel takes the hit for being .... dirtier.
Again that is easy to control for there are no CERTIFIED diesel engines (passenger vehicle) specified and approved to run up to 100% biodiesel.
@Michaell@edmunds
Maybe not. Even with VW throwing $2750 lease cash at 2014 Passat SE 1.8T w/ Sunroof (36 month, 12K per year, 50% residual, .00006 mf) I worked out a payment (incl tax) of $287.84 including tax. VW's residual for the TDI SE w/ Sunroof is 55% (36 month, 12K per year, .00061 mf) gives me a payment (incl tax) of $356.10. After the $1000 fuel reward card, that drops my monthly expenses by $27.78 per month. ($328.32) The difference is only $40.48 per month.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I stand corrected, but over 3 years its still close to $1500 more.
Having said that, for your commute the TDI is the way to go, IMO
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
This is pretty novel ! ? JD Powers data posts VW @ # 2 in a customer service index?
http://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/Slide2csi.2014.JPG
Pretty good, just a hair behind Buick (Caddy wins in the luxury division). Good for VW.
This rating is pretty good too.
Congratulations to the host's web site are in order !
So when is Buick coming out with a 3.0L TDI?
Blue smoke for the blue hair crowd?
Two stereotypes with one stone.
Wouldn't surprise me to hear of one "soon". The Cruze diesel almost keeps up with the Jetta TDI in mpg and is quiet and peppy.
Here is another reason to pick a TDI VW over it's 1.8T Gasser Counterpart.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
But, according to fueleconomy.gov, which I think is the only fair way to make the comparison, the 1.8T only costs $80 more annually to fuel for 12k miles. Take that away from the payment difference and the diesel is costing $405.76 more each year, for a total of over $1200 during the lease. So the gasser seems the obvious choice when comparing those particular leases.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
...."But, according to fueleconomy.gov,which I think is the only fair way to make the comparison, the 1.8T only costs $80 more annually to fuel for 12k miles."...
IF that is the ONLY measure that you give validity, you would be severely handicapped, to wrong a lot of the time, OR fail to see or ignore anamolies. Data is often not posted or incomplete. There are any number of OTHER mpg sites and measures. One that normally comes with new cars are the C/H EPA's and ranges.
But then, the majority of (gasser) drivers do not really know the operating parameters and specifications of their OWN ( gasser) engines let alone really know how to operate within them.
So IF one does not see $14,000 more for fuel as a motivator (earlier post) , then I can see why spending more is seen as spending less can be deduced.
So I did a TMI look, given some UPDATED data to fuel economy.com (that has not been there for easily 2 years) between the (gold standard) 12 Acura MDX and 12VW Touareg TDI. One short example is the VW T TDI gets 87% better fuel mileage. If I use my data, more like 100% better. Another point of data is the gasser UNDER performs the EPA figures C/H/combined. Combined MINUS- 25%. The VW T TDI OUTPERFORMS C/H/combined. Combined PLUS+ 7.7% !!!
And all diesel owners are highly trained in the technical aspects of their vehicle.
Got it.
Absolutely TRUE.
Seriously, I don't try to talk anyone into buying a diesel. They ride with me and I tell them I will never buy another gas powered vehicle. And if they ask I try to tell them in simple language why. 90% of Americans are clueless. A car is something with 4 wheels they drive to work. If the brand they buy has given good service, they buy another one from that company.
You lost me. Its comparing the combined fuel economy as measured by the EPA, not individual owners. No, I don't believe in using anomalies for data comparison.
You aren't saving $14k in fuel on a 3-year lease no matter what you do. Well, OK, unless maybe you compare leasing an airplane to a hybrid car? I dunno. But that would obviously be silly.
Let's not take this beyond the stated comparison. A 3-yr/36k mile lease of jettas. That's it. That's all I was responding to.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
That might be one conclusion, but it will/would probably be right twice in a 24 hour clock period . In that sense, diesel "converts" (from gassers) would/will probably also be clueless for DIESELS.
So for example, EVEN with that "cluelessness", it is a no brainer to get better diesel mpg. SO if one were more clued on BOTH (gasser and diesel), in theory one can execute better mpg on both gassers AND diesels.(thanks for the softball pitch)
So for example, since the population indicates 95% of the p vehicle fleet ARE gassers, and defacto less than 5% are pvf diesels, really, pick a clueless percentage (same for both gassers AND diesel folks) and apply it to 100 and mathematically the NUMBER of clueless gasser operators will be WAY more !! SO am I saying that all 5 diesel owners are EXPERTS vs 100% of the 95 gasser owners are being clueless ? ABSOLUTELY NOT !!! I am saying the percentages are probably pretty similar.
Of course I lost you ! YOU didn't even go to the place YOU say is the only place to go. (fuel economy.com) .
So yes, IF one insists on spending the absolute most for a car by leasing, ( a 3yr/ 36,000 miles lease) one really needs only grade school math (cheap crack u lator) for fuel use/consumption/savings) .
So let me do it on (over the life a 36,000 miles) lease for
12 Acura MDX 15 mpg combined vs
12 VW T TDI 28 mpg combined
= 2,400 gals (@$4.15 PUG = ) $9,960.
vs 1,285 gals (@4.05 ULSD=) $5,204 or
$4,756 SAVED (1,115 gals) . So in this example, $4,756/36 mo= $132. per mo
The same is true with me. Most folks don't even know they are diesel's. The conversation may only shift to diesel if I get asked about mpg. I really should say, well, it could be better. I only tell folks if they ask further and if they do not show any further interest, I normally drop it right there. As in, ... how about them COWBOY's (well here it is the 49 ners)
I know I shouldn't even say this for fear of the backlash. But Fuelly (with much bigger sample sizes) shows the 12 MDX (12 cars) avg @ 20.4mpg. Touareg (43 cars) at 24.4mpg. The VW sample is a little skewed as only 40 of the 43 are TDI's, but hardly enough to skew the data that much.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
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What in the world are you talking about? MDX? No, no. The topic at hand, which I replied to, was comparing 2 Jettas. Since you apparently don't think I looked at fueleconomy.gov (and really didn't even need to as I'm simply using the combined EPA numbers), here is a screenshot to make it very simple for you.
What we are talking about has absolutely nothing to do with an MDX or any other SUVs. So, once again, its quite simple, in the comparison of the Jetta 3-yr leases cited above, the gasser works out to be less expensive.
Having said that, I'd probably still opt for the diesel .... but that wasn't the point.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Backlash? No !, the more the merrier !! I would want to see more than one/2 posting to get a better feeling for the range. He actually made my case !! That is unless 1/2 examples is DAH bible as he has stated.
I already know I can easily get better than EPA ratings for both gassers and diesels. The thing I particularly enjoy with diesels is once you know the drills, one does not have to be as careful as one would have to be with gassers and gasser hybrids, E85, natural gas. Indeed if one IS careful, it is almost a slam dunk to far EXCEED C/H EPA figures.
Indeed, Don't get hung up in the example. So, yes! yes!! My points: do the math, then see how that factor rates in ones universe, then decide. Lease numbers are very high to me, gassers and way down the priority line, diesels. So if one is going to overpay, what is $586 more (for fuel) of YOUR monies? I say get what you want. (your nickels' anyway)
Really as you would probably agree, you are really paying for the privilege of NON ownership and to wash one's hands of it @ the third year or 36,000 miles So in that sense, what is the big deal? So that is 1,047 gals used vs 923 gals used or 124 gals saved (like model diesels still get 13.4% better mileage) . Totals (today's prices (4.13/4.05)are app $4,324-$3,738 or $586 saved (16.28 mo). So if VW is going to drop a $1000. diesel fuel card on you (28 per month)..... and IF that still makes it more expensive.....
The counter point would be then, why NOT try a diesel ?? There is in effect almost no downside.
If you don't like it, (even if you like it) or isn't close to what that zealot RUKING sez, turn it back in and wash the hands, (after the 3 year/36,000 miles markers) If VW still has the 3 year 36,000 miles warrant and included maintenance, it is literally (almost) ALL covered, even if you get a lemon.
The MDX gasser vs VW T TDI really demonstrates the real longer term deal that is really is. Too bad that is hard for you to see or to agree or see in context over 3 leases (108,000 miles) (realities can be cruel) . But then most lease/ buy gassers, so you are indeed mainstream. (95%) I was reading in passing that a pretty big minority (30 to 38% of new cars are leased. So for example on a 15.5 M yearly sales figure, that is anywhere from 4.65 M to 5.89 M leased units. IF those % rates hold true for diesels with new car sales @ LESS than 5%, that is less than 775,000 diesel units. 30 to 38% would post less than app 232,500 to 294,500 leased diesel units. Really, I am not into dissuading anyone from leasing or converting anyone to diesel.
uhhh... no, it doesn't work that way. Saving $1200 over 3 years in the Jetta example by picking the 1.8T over the TDI does not somehow translate into a savings with the TDI over the gasser if you lease 3 times in a row. It is quite linear and shows $3600 savings over 9 years.
The reasons the Jetta doesn't work in this particular case is the severe difference in the lease money factor coupled with the relatively low difference in fuel mileage. Sure, if you compare different vehicles with a larger delta in mileage and smaller delta in lease terms, it could be quite a different story. Again, its just one example; one person comparing 2 particular cars with 2 particular lease agreements. It says nothing about the diesel vs gas debate in general, so no need to beat on it as if it somehow represents a ding against diesel ownership (or leaseship, as it were).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
So why then don't you post the per month lease cost etc. for each ?? Then it is pretty easy to see. Or is it really you don't want it to be ....seen.
..."After the $1000 fuel reward card, that drops my monthly expenses by $27.78 per month. ($328.32) The difference is only $40.48 per month."...
Because you ignored/ glossed over this:
..."Totals :today's prices (4.13/4.05)are app $4,324-$3,738 or $586 saved (16.28 mo)."...
The difference is now 24,20 per month (40.48- 16.28) fuel savings)
So if I read his quote correctly the per mile cost (ownership/lease is app .328 cents per mile.
On my 03 TDI "ownerships" is @ app .032 cents per mile driven.
So the $1,200 costs cited over 36,000 miles is .0333 cents per mile??? If any thing you are making a big deal out of something very small, being as how leases are WAY more per mile driven anyway. In the 03 TDI case 10.25 TIMES more.
If I wanted to lease (a TDI in this example over a 1.8 T), assuming what you say is true), then I would tell em to equalize it, as a minimum to make the deal. Then yes, thank you very much for $1k fuel card. The 13% + better fuel milage and savings GRAVY.
Why do I need to repost his numbers? You obviously saw them because you just quoted a small tidbit of it. But since you are being obtuse, here you go:
Even with VW throwing $2750 lease cash at 2014 Passat SE 1.8T w/ Sunroof (36 month, 12K per year, 50% residual, .00006 mf) I worked out a payment (incl tax) of $287.84 including tax. VW's residual for the TDI SE w/ Sunroof is 55% (36 month, 12K per year, .00061 mf) gives me a payment (incl tax) of $356.10. After the $1000 fuel reward card, that drops my monthly expenses by $27.78 per month. ($328.32) The difference is only $40.48 per month.
So the TDI is $40.48 more. I have no idea where your 4.13/4.05 numbers come from or even what they represent. Using the EPA figures, however, as I posted, the 1.8 would cost $80 more annually to fuel for 12k miles (in case you missed it, that's their posted annual fuel cost number, which shows $100 difference between the cars for 15k miles: 12k is 80% of 15k so 80% of $100 is $80). Hence, multiplying his payment delta by 12 mos and subtracting the $80, he would spend a bit more than $400/year more for the TDI. Now, if I wanted to get really granular with the numbers, I could point out that, using today's prices at my local station of 3.29/3.79 for RUG/ULSD, it is less than $25/yr more with the 1.8T, but I just don't see the need to cook the books, nor do I care enough.
I am not making a big deal out of anything. I merely helped out a fellow poster with some math for his lease quandary, but you decided this was some great affront to your diesel preference and have blown it way beyond its small place in this world.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
A little touchy are we ??
An affront? to me? Not even close !! You are making it a big deal, Indeed I said it was a little deal that you were making a big deal of. There are no books to cook, unless you don't put them out there. Indeed, you are the one who asked why should you. Fair enough question,...clarity. That is why I usually post the numbers, simple to check.
..."I have no idea where your 4.13/4.05 numbers come from or even what they represent. "...
Sure you do, you respond to them with yours, a little farther down in your post. Chill out guy.
It's not like you are Lois Lerner of the IRS pleading the 5th.
So is 4.13/4.05 your local RUG/ULSD price? Where do you live?
So, after all of this, I think you are saying you simply agree that nycarguy would spend less on a 1.8T lease than TDI lease, which was the only point being made anyway. Thanks.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Evidently it remains hard for you to state things as simply as the original poster, which was the (my) original point. IT really wastes a lot of bandwidth.
(i.e.) Bottom line payment (all things being equal of) $250 vs $255. From that (example) one can decide any number of ways to go.
It has been pointed out throughout this thread, "the systems" make diesel/s more expensive @ almost all points ( i.e., normally on ACQUISITION (aka lease), vs like model gassers).
So this (diesel premium) has been confirmed any number of times, any number of points, issues, etc. and in effect, you also agree.
In fact, the (11 MY's ago- my) 03 Jetta TDI 1.9 L had a $236 dollar premium to the 1.8 L T. The diesel/s penalties have been part to parcel of the issues. To make the issue short, the diesel is penalized for its way of complying with what the legislative and enforcement agencies SAY they want. To state the obvious, it is hardly new news( to me) that diesel/s cost more.
LOL! Q, you'll have to forgive ruking; discussion of all things diesel here makes up for those in-car Cowboy (49'er?) conversations with a less-willing audience.
So, ....
how about those Bronco's? (AKA diesels work real well @ altitude) Mile High City 
But then the three do nicely UPGRADE @ 7,382 ft also. N 38.81 W 120.03
The thing we need to keep in mind is something I figured out some time ago:
This board is ruking1's world, and the rest of us just live in it.
Or not.
True, but Q nailed him pretty good this time !
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
C'mon guys, there's not that many posters driving passenger diesel cars. If we didn't have Ruking, Gagrice or Fintail posting, we'd have no real world experience to listen to.
In your dreams !! So all you all have to do are to get diesels, then we can listen to YOUR real world experiences.
Oh, another thing in your dreams? 
Not much experience for me to report lately - car remains excellent on the open road, nothing special in town, in terms of mpg anyway. Over a year into it, I still think the diesel is easily a good competition for the V6, and superior in many ways.