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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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Over 309,000 (TDI) miles, we have had VERY few full tank fuels with only "city" driving. Some years ago, I did 300 miles in Las Vegas (downtown, stop and go, mostly STOPPED) It was not a full tank @ 6.8/14.5 gals (03 Jetta TDI, 5 speed M/T, 44+ mpg lowest posted, 4 persons in car, A/C on full ). I really had wanted to get a sense of what all "city" driving would yield. I further don't have a clue what I would have gotten in a 1.8 T Jetta gasser under same conditions. I can of course, swag.
So I am glad you are having good experiences with your MB Bluetec.
Fueled (09 Jetta TDI) this morning to post 40.7 mpg
(pretty normal for the 18 to 36 mph 27 miles 40 to 90 min average daily commute, which happens to be one of Fuelly's common highest mpg: DIESEL 49/425 vehicles, sedan).
Fuelly lists the 09 VW Jetta GASSER 1.8 T for 28 mpg (common highest mpg of 4/425 vehicles, sedan).
This would put that 09 TDI @ 45.4% higher fuel mileage.
So for 36,000 miles, (aka the length of a 3 year/36,000 miles lease) that would be 401 gals saved (USED 1,286 gals- 885 gals= ) for $1,672.00 fuel savings or $46.44 mo. (4.17/4.05, $5,175. - $3,584.
So it does appear the 2 gasser vehicles listed in fuel economy.gov (qbrozen's post) is a very small population, which might present a skewed picture (diesel example also. The 09's TDI's/Gassers have also had more mileage, to be in arrears also) . So if one saves $1,200 and spends $1,672 more in fuel? Ah yes, cheaper !!!
Strictly TMI
There is an over looked or shall I say not very much mentioned anomaly : that mpg does not begin to get FULLY to really better until or between 30,000 to 50,000 miles. One consequence: best fuel mileage may/may not kick in during a 36,000 miles lease. Best mpg kick in for gassers, 1,000 to 5,000 miles.
Strictly TMI over TMI:
diesel resale value is far higher than the gasser.
Unrelated, but related to the topic. I just read that Volvo will come out with a $46,000, 2.4 L, I 5 , 309 # ft, 2015 TDI in the XC60 D5 AWD EPA est @ 28 mpg. I am not sure why the WSJ AMERICANIZED the TDI specifications, as the TDI will naturally NOT be available in US markets.
pal of mine owns a new jetta wagon tdi and sent his 100 mile trip mpg yesterday: 54.5 mpg, average speed 65 mph. these seem to be the typical mpgs for lightfooted VW TDI owners. between 45 and 50 mpg for leadfoots. (my experience is with ~400k on 4 VW TDIs).
To me, this is one of the REAL beauties of diesels, TDI's !!!
Ptobably TMI:
As you probably know and would agree, it is commonly known in the VW TDI community/s that JSW's have a tendency to get less mpg than sedans,
sans the issue of light/lead foot ness. 
. Now this is what JSW drivers tell me. I personally have not done an A/B test, nor do I have anecdotal experiences (tank fuels) with the JSW. I have driven various years, JSW's: DSG 5/6 speed M/T's I have also driven the 01M auto transmission (dodge a bullet here).
Further "RANGE" are the "out of the box" mpg records of 84+ mg/78 (?) mpg set by Tailors/Gerdes et al on a 12 Passat TDI. Both sets of record breakers have mention going 5 mph UNDER the speed limit as a strategy component.
Further TMI still, Gerdes broke his own HYBRID record @ 66 mpg?
Perhaps this is a good sign. While "FOGEYING" along in the SLOW lane (aka 4/4, old folks home), I watched in the rear view mirror, a black and white car pass on the right (#2 lane) several left lane campers. After passing, the B/W car got back into the #1 or fast lane. A short time later, I was passed by the same B/W car, now confirmed and recognizable as a Highway Patrol in the #1 lane. For whatever reason, I was having a hard time keeping up with him as he disappeared into the parallax!!! I did later fill for 50.83 mpg (488 miles 9.6 gal)
Yes I know, SLOW news diesel day.
my experience/recollections is that the 1999 & early 2000s jetta wagons got better mpg than the sedans. this is often true with wagons due to lower drag coefficient for the wagons. maybe not true for the new sportwagens vs new jetta sedan?
I have to confess the issues you present AND some of the results were head scratchers to me. I got wind (no pun intended) of this from some (later model) JSW owners @ (VW) GTG's that had sedan's/JSW's before. (TDI's of course) I guess what caught my attention was the slight to more noticeable frustration in their voices.
I am starting to pay more attention, as the wife has said more than once of late, she likes the look of the current JSW.
As a downstream consequence, I would expect app 1 to 3 mpg (14 JSW EPA 30C/42H) more than the current 09 TDI SEDAN DSG EPA 29C/40H (39 to 43 commute) or 40 to 46 mpg. But I would not be unhappy if there were no changes.
Some anticipated upcoming changes 15 MY + that might be worth waiting for are the + 10 hp engine (same torque @ 236 # ft ) with the 8 speed dry sump DSG. They may or may not increase mpg and/or drive ability.
Slow Diesel News Day:
I noticed yesterday the the price of ULSD has fallen about $.10 per gallon to $4.399. I swear I even passed a gas station that had PUG & ULSD for the same price ($4.299).
My stable of gassers has posted the following this week:
2011 BMW 328xi: 20.3 mpg (avg 21.3)
2011 Honda Pilot: 16.5 mpg (avg 15.7)
2001 Honda Prelude: 23.8 mpg (avg 23.5)
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
In your opinion is the Acura MDX (2013 on back) the same platform as the Pilot? I have read in passing they share the Odyssey platform. I have also read the 2014 MDX has been redesigned to share the RDX platform. The MDX engine has been down sized and tweaked be able to post 28 mpg H EPA.
At Chevron yesterday, PUG was something like $4.12, Diesel was $3.99. Premium brand diesel car dealers are probably smiling.
@ruking1
The previous generation MDX shares numerous platform components with the current generation Honda Pilot. Look at the rear ends of the 2 SUVs and you can see the rear suspension components are identical. I don't know if this is still the case, but the MDX rides on a 108.3" wheel base vs. the Pilot's 109.2. I used to think the "rule of thumb" was "same exact wheel base, same platform," but that might not be the case any longer. The differential is less than an inch, so I might be wrong.
The MDX does get slightly worse gas mileage compared to the Pilot due to its bigger, more powerful engine, and full time AWD system (constantly transferring power from front to back & left to right). The Pilot is FWD until slippage is detected in which case it diverts power to the rear wheels (you can also lock the Pilot's center differential in 1st and 2nd gear up to 18 mph) Starting in 2011, the MDX got a 6 speed automatic compared to the Pilot's 5 speed Automatic.
I'm not sure of the actual numbers, but the MDX holds its value incredible well. My Pilot is a Honda and will always be worth more than I owe on it, but MDX's (even with higher than usual miles) seem to bring more than decent money.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Corner store prices:
ULSD $4.05
PUG $4.21
RUG $4.01
Interesting update circa 4/1/2014: NY and CA STILL have some of the highest fuel taxes.
api.org/oil-and-natural-gas-overview/industry-economics/~/media/files/statistics/state_motor_fuel_excise_tax_update.ashx
Check out this Fusion Hybrid vs. VW Passat TDI article right here on edmunds.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
So which one did his friend choose?
My money is on the friend getting the FORD GASSER/hybrid ( Ford Fusion Hybrid). (given the scenario, to something far different, but still gasser)
Some (swagged) background reasons:
I don't think diesels are vilified anymore--I certainly don't see this in the media, except when talking about heavy truck pollution overseas.
The reason diesel cars are still a step-child is because their advantages are simply not apparent to the average car buyer. They are subtle advantages, they don't jump out at you.
It's a "jump ball" in other words.
Whereas when the Prius came out, the advantage was pretty clear---"oh, I get double the gas mileage of my X car".
I always thought the expanding market for diesel cars in America lies in full-size sedans and SUVs, not in small cars.
In most other countries, people drive little diesel cars because they have to--here, we do it because we choose to. And hence, the leisure of choice does not favor the small diesel car.
@MrShift@Edmunds
"I always thought the expanding market for diesel cars in America lies in full-size sedans and SUVs, not in small cars."
I couldn't agree with you more. The Passat TDI is a step in the right direction. A full sized sedan that compromises nothing for its fuel economy gains. @ruking & @gagrice Toureg TDIs are a fantastic example of just how good a diesel can be. The big problem is that they might be cheap to own, but not cheap to buy. I think a diesel powered Pilot or Highlander would do great. My Dad would buy a diesel powered Tahoe in a second.
The fuel economy numbers are there. People really do need to get out and drive a modern diesel powered vehicle. The smooth, effortless torque, the extended range, and fantastic passing power. The fuel economy should almost be thought of as an added bonus, but it is high (if not tops) on so many people's "needs" when they shop for a car. They aren't so much concerned with the price of the car, but with how little gas it uses.
Friends of ours bought a Prius V (the big one). I asked them how they liked it. They replied: "Great, it only costs us $35 a month in gas." If anybody ever asks me about my BMW, I don't give out FE numbers unless they specifically ask.
There was an article in THE STAMFORD ADVOCATE (my local CT paper) about certain train station parking lots only having 1 EV charging station, how some people have developed a system of "sharing" it, and how others are complete DBs and "hog" the spot. There was one person quoted who drives a Fusion Energi (plug in hybrid). They talked about how they save so much money by driving back and forth to the train station in EV mode only and not putting gas in their cars (thankfully I leave early enough in the AM, don't drive near the train station, and don't get stuck behind these people). I'm reading this article and screaming to myself: If you want to "save" money, then lease a Civic, buy a "station" car, but for crying out loud, don't spend $30K on a plug in Hybrid!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Despite the decades long effort to get size 12 shoe preferences into size 4 shoes (so to speak) the "SMALL" passenger vehicle fleet has been pretty stable @ 25%. Defacto, of course that leaves app 75% of the PVF as "LARGE." But as the host has mentioned, probably not in the context of this," I am glad for the choices, albeit NARROW." I am probably not alone in this, but ALSO others that chose diesels.
I was trying the (SMALL CUV 4265#'s?) ) MB GLK 250 BlueTec and in app 100 miles, the thing is posting (onboard computer) 38.6 mpg (sub 75 mph) The EPA C/H is 24/33 mpg. The 2.1 L twin turbo is a hoot and pretty much seamless. I think if I didn't know it had a twin turbo configuration, that I would not probably suspect that it was a twin turbo, or if I were a passenger. This thing moves solidly (good and bad thing?) almost like a mini freight train.
I was trying the (SMALL CUV 4265#'s?) ) MB GLK 250 BlueTec and in app 100 miles, the thing is posting (onboard computer) 38.6 mpg (sub 75 mph) The EPA C/H is 24/33 mpg. The 2.1 L twin turbo is a hoot and pretty much seamless. I think if I didn't know it had a twin turbo configuration, that I would not probably suspect that it was a twin turbo, or if I were a passenger. This thing moves solidly (good and bad thing?) almost like a mini freight train.
Glad you enjoyed your test drive of the GLK250 BT. My 3 test drives were not long enough. MB here is not into long tests. The VW salesman we bought from seemed to want a long test drive. We were out at least an hour with him in the Touareg TDI. Driving the GLK is a hoot. And you can get a stripped one here for under $37k. The one I liked with leather and multimedia package was up over $47k. Which was about what I paid for the bigger Touareg TDI. MB also wanted about $2500 more for the 4 year service program. No Zero financing or great lease.
If I lived in snow country and just wanted a beater AWD to dice it up with the masses on the ice, it would be a great choice. They are not that much more than a Subaru Forster and a lot more vehicle. Not to mention much better mileage and torque.
Indeed that is the reason for an AWD SMALL CUV, aka the no chains option on mountain chain controlled roads. I was informed MB would require a no chains/cable signed waiver.
For this region, this MB dealership is one the bigger ones. They seem to be a pretty good dealership. The folks in internet sales kept me in the loop for last years 13 model but most to all were some configuration of "all" the options. So I was a bit surprised this one was only 1 of 2 GLK 250 Blue Tecs and BOTH were literally FOTB (Fresh Off The Boat) via Bremen, Germany (75% Germ content, this one had 12 miles) . The other one was north of $ 48 k MSRP. I had a laugh when they checked the dealer inventory for the different options and the searches led to So CA.
They were FLUSH with MB GLK 350's (GASSERS) .
Indeed, even with a low interest rate, it is almost funny to be able compare against ZERO %. I was amused to see the VW Touareg TDI is worth more than I owe on it. I was thinking ZERO % would further degrade resale prices. Evidently I was WRONG !! So I am guessing we have the Fed Chairman's to thank. (not to mention VWA, thank you VW A finance!! ) The current one had taught at the alma mater. Go BEARS !!!
Indeed, even with a low interest rate, it is almost funny to be able compare against ZERO %. I was amused to see the VW Touareg TDI is worth more than I owe on it. I was thinking ZERO % would further degrade resale prices. Evidently I was WRONG !! So I am guessing we have the Fed Chairman's to thank. (not to mention VWA, thank you VW A finance!! ) The current one had taught at the alma mater. Go BEARS !!!
I am hoping my Touareg will have retained a good amount about 4 years down the road. If they have made any improvements or come up with a 4 cylinder to compete with MB, I would be interested. Though I have no reason to want to get rid of it unless I find something better. So far Car and Driver comparo that rated the Touareg TDI top in class has held up for me.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2014-jeep-grand-cherokee-summit-ecodiesel-4x4-vs-2013-volkswagen-touareg-tdi-2013-mercedes-benz-ml350-bluetec-4matic-2013-porsche-cayenne-diesel-2013-bmw-x5-xdrive35d-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-7
Indeed, on almost all points !!
Given 75% PVF @ LARGE cars and trucks and a past article done on GALLONAGE, by Edmunds.com, the fuel numbers and projection are undeniable. I have in past posts used the 14 to 16 mpg on a SUV of 4800#s vs 30 to 33 mpg CUV of 4975#'s . That is 1,000 gals vs 500 gals (@ 15,000 miles per year). This of course is the GOOD/BAD news.
The Prius V owners (swag) have a lot more going on, besides how little fuel it uses.
To wit, $35 per month( @ $4 per gal @50 mpg consumption ) is like 438 miles mo or 15 miles a day.
Using my 04 Civic (@ MINUS- $12,000 cheaper off the 04 Prius, 38/42 mpg would use $46. @ today's RUG fuel prices (MINUS -11 mo ) , it would be POINTLESS mention a quick and dirty break even of 91 YEARS.
I know it is even worse with the plug ins, as normally unless someone is going to provide FREE electricity, it costs more per mile driven that like model diesels and gassers.
Slow test drive segment. I know now that (@ 75 mph and slightly below) the 14 MB GLK250 BT is capable of 41.6 mpg (H). It is a bit scary however even in the SLOW lane, 4/4, this is WITH a fair amount of VARIED RPM) I kept looking for the 8th speed. with the UP/DOWN paddle shifters. I finally got over that. Trying to figure out the various systems controls did not let road hypnosis threaten.
I also got a look @ the Prius mpg figures on fully.com and mpg figures seems to be more like 42 to 45. Anything better than that, most folks are driving like the hyper miler, Gerdes. Indeed the 04 Prius at that time and now seems more like 43/44 mpg.
The 03 Jetta TDI is between more like 48 to 52 mpg.
BUT on new 15 VW TDI Jetta, Golf Wagon notes.....
https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/volkswagen-brings-new--ish--jetta-to-new-york-along-with-golf-sportwagen-183834468.html
BUT on new 15 VW TDI Jetta, Golf Wagon notes.....
I always thought the Jetta Sportswagen was the same exact vehicle as the Golf Estate sold in the EU. I could see us getting a Golf hatch TDI for running errands. If I ever talk my wife into selling her LS400. We took it for a trip to Costco yesterday to charge up the battery. Been sitting for a bit over a month. Ran great. I could never leave the Sequoia that long or the battery would be dead. The Touareg battery does not seem to get low with 3 weeks sitting.
tnx for that info, king. for that car the 6-speed manual would be mandatory for me. VW stickshifts are awesome!!!!! and more hp is nice, where did they get it? For less cost than a new VW diesel, i am informally shopping for a 2004-2006 mercedes-benz E diesel. If one shows up nearby I may investigate/buy it especially if it's blue. There are plenty of interesting non-blue ones available a few hundred miles away...
I have read in passing it is an engine component redesign efficiency . The hp is gained due to less friction. Further in theory, that would mean slightly better mpg, but no numbers were assigned in the articles I have read. I am not saying it is related, but when a similar engine component redesign efficacy upgrade was done on the 3.0 L TDI, it resulted in 10 hp, and 1 mpg better. (no increase in torque)
I am swaging the 7/8 speed DSG dry sump might be in subsequent years.
One addition/correction: AWD on the GOLF wagon, mated to an M/T?.
http://jalopnik.com/vw-will-bring-an-awd-manual-diesel-wagon-to-america-1562176442
Yes, the "older to OLD" MB diesels are almost a "CULT" thing around here. So it might be an interesting research project in YOUR neck of the woods. Out here for the VW GTG set, it takes the form of setting times and dates @ web sites. Then (almost like a flash mob in slo mo) folks show up.
What would you want for that old beast? What's the color combo? I might be interested in something like that some day - they are getting old enough now where really nice ones are getting hard to find. Kind of like 80s and 90s S-class.
Yep ! It's all good! Diesels need a few like that gasser Lexus !!
So, .... is anybody thinking about a electrical plug in ????? I am duly reminded that no good deed shall go UNPUNISHED !
(Not that it was ever a question for DIESELS)
http://news.yahoo.com/worlds-dumbest-idea-taxing-solar-energy-111300623.html
That's true. In some parts of the country with higher KwH costs, it has been calculated that running an EV costs as much as running a hybrid. There is no savings whatsoever.
i have calculated that, in sub-30-degree temps, our Leaf gets the dollar equivalent of 40-45mpg. Its a bit over 70mpg when the temps rise above 50 degrees.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Essentially power companies run on a cost PLUS profit model.
So for example, our local G&E Company blew up a community close to here. They needed an immediate scape goat, so they asked the CEO to go away with a $ 54 M golden parachute. Hey guys, you can fire me ANYTIME 24/7 for $ 54 M !!!! ????
Years later, they applied for rate increases (to pay for the damage and costs to manage the damage efforts they caused of course) and rate increases to comply with the NEW and more wonderful compliance rules. Now if they complied with the older rules, the blow up would not have happened and it would have been WAY cheaper ANYWAY. They are more recently being put up on Fed/State FELONY charges for the series of actions leading to the blow up. I am sure when the penalty amount is known, another rate increase is in order. Needless to say rates are @ the highest they have been. BEST EVER ! ??
They also recently got "out ted" hushing up a major and DEADLY serious "domestic terrorist" attack on a sub station. It was characterized in the media, corp security, and by city/ state/ fed/ officials as a dress rehearsal/s for possible future US wide infrastructure attacks.
Basically the perps shot a boat load of assault rounds (if I remember correctly AK47 ammo) at a cooling structure, cut or bypassed critical connections and of course it over heated and caused an electrical "meltdown". There was a casual mention in the media about a short power outage. Electrical outages are common here, so folks were asleep @ the wheel.
So we want to add more electrical load to an already over loaded systems and almost totally vulnerable infrastructure system? How sane is that?
A massive FBI investigation has yield NO suspects/results. Seems also for all the spying the CIA is doing domestically, there is the normal SGT Shulze's: I know NOTHING !!!!!!!!
This is all google able. So this is hardly the rantings of a crazy person.
CA went at it from the other end. They charge the customer a very high price for energy (37 cents per KWH) to make up for those that are not paying their share of the infrastructure cost. SDG&E is trying to get another increase, as more people install solar.
If you can get 100 miles out of a full 24 KWH charge on a Nissan Leaf, it will cost you about $8.88. With Costco gas selling for $3.99 a gallon it is about a wash with a 50 MPG car. Without the anxiety of not making it to the next receptacle.
Some state (Arizona?) is trying to tax solar panels.
Sure is an interesting way to say they really want you to make the solar LEAP !! ??
It's like Gary says; the electric utilities want to protect their monopoly cash cow. (cleantechnica.com)
Funny thing is, it would be a convenience fee for tying into the grid. So that would fulfill my wish to get everyone entirely off the grid, or perhaps limit the grids to neighborhood size. I don't want a brownout when Quebec Hydro hiccups.
Ah, but we digress. Must be a long weekend approaching.
$.37 is crazy for electricity. Only $.05 in our part of SD. So a leaf would be more like 300+ mpg. Unfortunately everything is so far away you could never leave town.
What the... huh?! Dang. Well, I don't feel so bad either way. We paid about $0.195 last month, which I expect will probably go up to about $0.23 or so when (if?) the refinery closes its doors next month. But, both of those are a far cry better than $0.37!
This time, 'king... this time.
I paid $.079 per kwh last month here in CT
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Realities any more are WEIRDER than any concocted fiction !! ???
Yes, the .37 cents is considered a "penalty" tier. So again, neither Gagrice nor I are making this up. They basically set the consumption targets so LOW than almost any bump in weather , slight miscalculation, etc. can land portions of the fuel bill in the various tiered penalty boxes. So even if one uses NOTHING, the fixed costs are literally ASTRONOMICAL percentage wise. These guys have nothing on Carl Sagan.
So a so called "home fueling" (plug in) will GUARANTEE it. This is not to mention all the other legislative and regulatory tiers this installed home ADDITION will trigger.
So you don't think they know that? LOL
Just enough range to put you in DEEP kim chee !!!
On a GOOD Friday ! (but slow news diesel day)
Local fuel station
ULSD $4.09
PUG $4.25
RUG $4.05
What will they do? Pull a cloud over your house if you don't pay?
Pretty much. No sun, no power, and you won't be hooked to the grid for backup power. Lots of people don't want a utility room full of backup batteries.
If you want to live off the grid, I would think batteries and a small backup Genset would be the only way to go. The other biggies are water and sewer charges. Of course internet and TV can be the worst utility to pay. I have given up living totally off the grid. Just look for a place where the cost of utilities are kept under control. And of course where diesel is cheap year round.
You guys posting less than 10 cents for electricity, are you SURE about that? Mine is about 8 cents for the actual kWh... Then another 13 cents delivery charge.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
@qbrozen
I forgot to factor in the delivery charge. Let me check the bill.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Along with other charges. If I stay under tier 3 (less than 472 KWH) my total comes out to 19.5 cents per KWH. All in tier 3 is 37 cents per KWH. Which makes the bill go up exponentially. To keep my bills for electrity and propane low, I freeze in the winter and cook in the summer. People in states like KY keep their homes a comfy 72 degrees year round for a heck of a lot less than US in CA. Our massive rollout of Solar and Wind have raised our utilities to one of the highest in the Nation. That is why I am looking for a better place to live.
Period of Consumption Kilowatt Hour Rate
June 1 through September 30 5.49 ¢/kWh
October 1 through May 31 4.34 ¢/kWh
http://www.hmpl.com/rates/rrate.php
Kentucky? Lots of good old TVA socialism supplying power there.
Diesel-powered Audi A3 Sportback TDI coming to America in 2015 (autoweek.com)
OK guys, lets run Dudlyer's SD's .05 per KWH (assuming that is correct and both are correct, so apples = apples) vs Gagrice's .195 cents per KWH. This means 2.9 TIMES more for Gagrice, per KWH.
So if we apply that FACTOR to ULSD @ $4.00 per gal, that would mean Gagrice will pay $15.60 per gal ULSD.
And we wonder why K-12 doesn't like to teach mathematics well?
Or getting back on point, why electricity for transportation where ( in CA) arguably it is THE MOST touted, makes almost NO economic sense.
So how is it any different than the last A3 TDI that won green car of the year in 2010?
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/2009-los-angeles-auto-show/audi-a3-tdi-wins-2010-green-car-of-the-year-award
PS
Socialism that does not rob from the Middle Class is acceptable. In CA the Socialist rob from the middle class to feed their government agencies and obscene retirements. Along with the Green agenda gone amuck.
Hey, fancy luxo driver, where are the keys to the Touareg? I need to hit Costco tonight.
(You did fill up, right?).