What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

ruking1

@gagrice said:
The Problem I see with the Highlander Hybrid is about $18k more than the standard Highlander and real World mileage only about 3 MPG gain over the 4 cylinder Highlander. And a couple MPG less than the Touareg TDI. If you are considering the Highlander, I would take the Subaru and get for sure better mileage.

I agree, the cost for the "status" badge is HUGE. But if driving a hybrid floats someones boat, I am mind full (as I am sure you are also) that the extra 18k spent are not my nickels.

The difference for the 04 Civic vs 04 Prius was app $ 12.3 K. $300 more and I could have had TWO 04 Civics.

elias

@gagrice said: I sure hope they add a gas guzzler tax to the 14 MPG Premium gas hog. You can buy a faster Corvette and get 33% better mileage.

mpg is just one factor in choosing a car, not necessarily a major factor for some applications. back seats can be a major factor sometimes.
btw, V-series wagons get a solid 19 mpg on the highway and are tuned to run fine on 87 octane if you prefer. the non-V wagons do 30% better on mpg of course. no diesel GM wagons to compare with, so far...

fwiw, for 2015 'll also be cross-shopping a VW passat TDI & jetta wagon tdi, each with stickshifts. and GMC canyon, chevy colorado base model with stickshift. if i bought a VW i'd always opt for the diesel engine wherever possible, even for the premium $ . the canyon/colorado with diesel&automatic will probably be so much more $ than the base/stickshift truck as to be cost-ineffective , just like for the Cruze LS M6 vs Diesel/automatic cruze.

ruking1

@elias said:

MPH being only one factor (in choosing a car) should be obviously, .... obvious. It should be also obvious that he did not say IT was THE major factor. It was more like you say that he said that, which he did NOT. So yes (using your example), if back seats are the major factor , IF the car gets 19 mpg or even less, THEN it should be up to the one dispensing the nickels, all things being equal, which of course, they never are. Of course to some others, that might be a bit like looking through the wrong end of the binoculars.

So I say good luck in your car search. While more diesels and more oems and diesel models are coming to market each year, the diesel PVF % has not moved much. Indeed, that can be a good to bad thing. One may or may not like the philosophies of those oems that do offer diesels, VW, BMW, MB, to name only a few. On the other hand, one might really like being one of the first diesel adopters for a TBD Canyon/Colorado to a slightly more seasoned Cruze diesel.

So for another example, I am surprised we get little or no feedback on this board for the diesel Cruze.

ruking1

@nippononly said:
What was nice in the past was that the TDIs were still imported from Germany. Not so any more, or for the last few years, as I understand it.

Well for sure the situations are FAR worse that you depict. VW has long since been a WW manufacturing company. Golf (wherever manufactured) has been VW's bread and butter lines for what 40 years? US market Passats have their own US Passat site to name just one@ $7 B (probably +).

Purists Porsche enthusiasts have seen Porsche armageddon come and go. I think it would be difficult to have an on going Porsche concern without its profitability, let alone EXTREME profitability. Interestingly enough most of its more profitable product start off being assembled in Slovakia ????

I am really not sure if there are published study/ies (outside of the industry) on the real/imagined statistical differences between assembly in Mexico vs Germany vs China, etc., etc.

I do know that for some consumers, it can have a MARKET (way downstream) value. What that is, I really do not know.

I have read in passing that the VW Mexico plants have (had) both the state of the art and the BEST and highest capital investment in the VW universe to include being better than German capital investment in Germany, not to mention better state of the art equipments. Indeed I have read that Mexico plant is going on 50 years old.

I have also read the volume that comes out of the Mexico plant FAR exceeds German production. So while I would probably agree that more lemons come out of that plant, I am guessing the percentages (good to great cars) are WAY better @ the Mexico plant over the German plant. Correction costs alone would dictate here.

Another might be country/s taxes and/or treaties. While I do not know the (precise) details, I am sure there are NAFTA consequences to a VW (Golf) from Germany vs one that will come from Mexico. (i.e.., WAY cheaper duties and costs)

Perhaps I read too much, but the real logistical rational for a Golf from Mexico is being able to jettison the 6 week boat ride (costs and potential damages) from Germany. Ergo, better product turn around times. I am sure that monies for 6 weeks LESS (lower capital costs) and monies conversions make more sense also.

Not that this have much to do directly with diesels but, I have just read that Toyota (Marketing in Torrance, a LALA land burb of Southern California, circa 1957) is looking to move some of its structural components OUT of LA LA land to TEXAS??? . The article does its best to not say MASSIVE COSTS (aka high cost of living and TAXES and anti business attitudes) are a driver. It can affect up to 5,000 jobs !!! Great job CA !!!!!

Nissan flew the So CA coop in 2006, so might this be an ongoing trend?

ruking1

Again anyone can google for any number of articles. Here is (only) one link

At VW’s Mexico plant, the biggest car factory in North America still has room to grow
By Neal Pollack
January 22, 2014 2:26 PM
Motoramic

https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/vw-mexico-plant-biggest-car-factory-north-america-192656830.html;_ylt=A0SO8x1a.F5TrHEAbeRXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzdm4zNWpkBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNQRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkA1NNRTQyNF8x

The real issue/s is/remains, of course very simple. Not enough folks that are willing to pay the German " made" price structures for VW's.

According to Yahoo news its official, Plano TX ????

news.yahoo.com/toyota-moving-us-california-texas-182247217.html

gagrice

Toyota will join Cigna Corp., Hewlett-Packard Co. and Pepsico Inc.'s Frito Lay in a city with an unemployment rate lower than the state average. Plano's 265,000 residents have a median income of $81,000, one of the highest in the country.

The people of the state of CA have no one to blame but themselves. They vote these losers into the legislature, and before long we will beat out Illinois as the worst state in the Union. If not for semi decent weather we would already be in the toilet. Only RI is lower than IL for pride in being there. And that is where we are headed.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/04/25/state-pride-gallup-montana-alaska/8140879/

nippononly

@ruking1 said:
the real logistical rational for a Golf from Mexico is being able to jettison the 6 week boat ride (costs and potential damages) from Germany. Ergo, better product turn around times.

I'm no business expert but I would bet dollars to donuts that it is the $35+ per hour PER PERSON they save in labor costs between the place with the highest wages in the world and one with almost the lowest....and yes, being able to truck them across the border rather than shipping them from far away can't hurt either...

The Cruze diesel WAS selling at the annualized rate of a couple thousand a year, so not many folks in that group yet, would explain the lack of posters waxing poetic about the wonders of the Cruze diesel on this site.

stever

Lots of VWs get shipped out of Veracruz. Not sure where they go from there....

gagrice

@nippononly said:
The Cruze diesel WAS selling at the annualized rate of a couple thousand a year, so not many folks in that group yet, would explain the lack of posters waxing poetic about the wonders of the Cruze diesel on this site.

About 65 Cruze diesel owners have posted on Fuelly. com. Looks like 40 MPG is average. Not sure on sales as they not plentiful here. Less than 10% of the Cruze in my area are diesels. All $27k and up. The Cruze cannot compete with the Passat for size and comfort yet they want as much for them.

ruking1

@nippononly said:
'm no business expert but I would bet dollars to donuts that it is the $35+ per hour PER PERSON they save in labor costs between the place with the highest wages in the world and one with almost the lowest....and yes, being able to truck them across the border rather than shipping them from far away can't hurt either...

The article did go over that in interesting detail.

One diesel take away would be the 14 GOLF TDI would be the last German built, for US markets anyway.

xwesx

I wonder if that will have an effect on quality (aside from perception)?

qbrozen

noticed at one of the local stations this morn that ULSD is priced same as mid-grade gas. $3.69 (RUG @3.49 and PUG @3.83)

gagrice

Gas prices showing no downward trend. Cheapo brand RUG $4.19. Same station selling ULSD at $3.91. Premium 48 cents higher than diesel.

http://www.sandiegogasprices.com/USA_Gasoline_Gas_Stations/San_Diego_-_South/25142/index.aspx

I think we will see $5 gas this Spring here.

http://www.sandiegogasprices.com/Chevron_Gas_Stations/Carlsbad/39894/index.aspx

stever

I dunno - people are snagging "great" deals on Priuses over in the Prices Paid discussion. Guess the word hasn't gotten out about high gas prices yet - otherwise the "Geo Metro" rush for them would be on and dealers would be holding out for MSRP.

gagrice

Did VW wise up for the 2015 Touareg models. Looks like they may not be wasting money bringing the Hybrid version. My dealer sat on one for months and finally sold it well below cost to get rid of it. The 2015 Touareg is debuting at the Bejieng auto show. Tells me the USA is not VWs most important market.

The Powertrain list will read very familiar for anyone who’s flipped through a Touareg brochure. The standard 3.6-liter V-6 and 3.0-liter turbo-diesel TDI have been confirmed for American consumption, but we’re hearing that the hybrid model may not come to our shores for 2015. Both of the confirmed engines with be mated to an eight-speed automatic, and for the first time outside of the hybrid model, the Touareg will get a standard coasting function that optimizes fuel economy by decoupling the engine from the gearbox when the driver lifts off the accelerator.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2015-volkswagen-touareg-photos-and-info-news

ruking1

@MrShift@Edmunds said:
Your fantastic diesel that you enjoy would never have existed had not California held the automakers' feet to the fire.

Actually the European standards for TDI's were, are, remain plenty tough enough. They would have done just fine unaltered in CA. CA just wanted wants and continues to want to change the regulations to add unnecessary costs.

It is commonly known that dumbing down perfectly good late model European diesels (gassers also) cost a lot of unnecessary monies for questionable to little gain. The cost to certify just one (vilified) diesel is wildly expensive. So for example the 2003 VW Jetta Euro TDI had/has a 6th speed and bigger injectors and gets 2 mpg BETTER. I have read the rational for smaller injectors and 5 speed US model were the regulators were concerned about the massive POWER aka 110 hp vs 90 hp. :@ Of course 50 mpg is BETTER than 52 mpg !!!! Needless to say the 04 Prius weighs in @ 110 hp !!!!

gagrice

@ruking1 said:
It is commonly known that dumbing down perfectly good late model European diesels (gassers also) cost a lot of unnecessary monies for questionable to little gain. The cost to certify just one (vilified) diesel is wildly expensive. So for example the 2003 VW Jetta Euro TDI had/has a 6th speed and bigger injectors and gets 2 mpg BETTER. I have read the rational for smaller injectors and 5 speed US model were the regulators were concerned about the massive POWER aka 110 hp vs 90 hp. :@ Of course 50 mpg is BETTER than 52 mpg

I think CARB just wanted to show they had more power than the EPA to do as they please. And being the largest auto market in the US, they got their way. It would have been better for all concerned if the EU/EPA/CARB had worked together for a common goal of cleaner emissions. Thta is just not the CA way. And they are going to pay for it in the long run. They are going broke with massive debt to their obscene pension plans. The latest tax bill the voters allowed is all going to CalPERS and CalSTRS.

stever

It would be nice to see EU, UK and US pollution standards "normalized". It's hard to compare notes right now.

(Insert your own joke about normalizing US standards between the CARB states and the rest of the country).

Mr_Shiftright

Didn't someone post about France cracking down on diesel emissions recently?

gagrice

Pent up demand. During the CARB diesel blockage the market for slightly used Diesels was Monstrous. A used diesel VW sold well over MSRP after it had the minimum 7500 miles on the ODO.

Off topic. Yes pension funds are in trouble all over the USA. None are even close to the two major CA funds. Way over $100 billion to get them close to the lower limits. That point was just to show how mismanaged the state is and CARB is just a small part of the mess. Companies pulling out like Toyota, Cygna, Pepsi etc etc are not going to help the econmy get better.

With the price of RUG higher than diesel I have reason to be SMUG.

ruking1

Just reading in passing the Occidental Petroleum Company also recently move from So Cal to (Houston) Texas also. I remember reading that Getty Oil morphed to Occidental.

stever

"The idea of a diesel engine in a light-duty full-size pickup has been kicked around for years now, so when Ram announced it was finally going to make it a reality we figured it was a good time to give its latest 1500 a try.

Couple that with the fact that the latest Ram is our highest-rated light-duty pickup and it only made sense to see if it will live up to that rating over the long term. Well, that and we want to see if the new EcoDiesel engine is really worth its added cost."

2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel Long-Term Road Test

ruking1

It is interesting that Edmunds.com had to come north to NOR CAL (from car/truck availability mecca LA LA land) to find a (rare) diesel 1/2 ton truck. The funny part is if I wanted/had to have a Chysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram this would be the closest dealership. Up close and personal to this Ram 1500, this thing is HUGE !!!! But then I felt the same way about the 13 Toyota Landcruiser.

stever

Yeah, but we always load the testers up with a lot of options and rarely wait for one to be ordered. And it gives the editors an excuse to test out our dealer quote and inventory tools "in the real world".

gagrice

@Stever@Edmunds said:
Yeah, but we always load the testers up with a lot of options and rarely wait for one to be ordered. And it gives the editors an excuse to test out our dealer quote and inventory tools "in the real world".

I will be eagerly anticipating their long term thoughts on the PU Truck. If I was in the market for a new PU truck that is the only one I would be looking at until GM offers their mid size diesel PU trucks. The VW Amarok TDI would move to the front if it comes to America.

"GM is testing prototypes for its diesel-powered Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon alongside Volkswagen's Amarok pickup truck on the streets of Milford, Mich.
"The presence of the Amarok testing with GM's new, U.S.-spec midsize pickups is interesting. Such testing will help GM see how they will compare with the Amarok for global markets, but we've heard VW is also discussing the possibility of entering the U.S. truck market in the future. It's highly unlikely that the current Amarok will see U.S. showrooms — as some have deemed it too small for the North American market. VW's entry into the U.S. truck market will likely come with the next-generation, upsized Amarok model — which is expected to be a better fit for the U.S. market."

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2014/04/spied-2015-chevrolet-colorado-duramax-diesel.html

gagrice

@MrShift@Edmunds said:
Didn't someone post about France cracking down on diesel emissions recently?

You know I think they have a problem in Paris. I would say too many people, not too many cars. I wonder if that means you only have to show up for work every other day. Sounds like something the French would try.

France's air pollution crisis became yet more dramatic Monday, as Paris banned half of its region's cars from the roads.

After highly polluted air became trapped close to the ground across France last week by unseasonably warm weather, authorities introduced free public transport over the weekend in Paris, Bordeaux, Caen, and Rouen. Now Paris has announced that only cars with odd numbered registration plates will be allowed to drive as of 5:30 this morning. To enforce the ban, police patrols will monitor traffic and dole out €22 fines to transgressors. Should poor air quality continue—and it's highly likely it will—on Tuesday cars with even numbered registration plates will take to the roads alone. Many are already asking whether the temporary ban will really work, and whether such short-term measures will be enough.

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2014/03/air-quality-woes-may-finally-force-paris-rethink-its-love-diesel-fuel/8649/

dave8697

__Well whoever "they" were who "figured it out" are wrong: It was a $500,000 US gov study done this year that found out that decaying corn residue in farm fields removes a lot of CO2 from the atmosphere.

Greenland melting ice: If the recent high melt year that caused 48 cu miles to melt was actually the rate over the last 87 years (since 1927), it would total 1.87 inches of sea level rise in those 87 years. But since there has been snow in Greenland since 1927, A more realistic account of the net ice loss in Greenland migh have caused the oceans to rise just 1 inch over 87 years. 48 cubic miles in that one really bad year out of Greenland's 3 million cubic miles is like worrying about buying a $1.60 drink once a year with $100,000 in your pocket all year. The report a few years ago that stated that Greenland had lost 15% of it's area of ice over a couple decades was off by a 15 thousand times exaggeration. (1.5 million percent error). (When the time between maps that gave the 15% WAG is compared to one actual bad year of melt).

interestingly, there are absolutely no articles available to document the effects from this past winter for ice creation. All quiet...

ruking1

16 Audi A3 TDI WAGON ?

3,600 destined for the street?

I am swaging sold OUT, when the order cue starts up?

forbes.com/sites/hannahelliott/2014/04/29/audi-brings-back-the-hipster-wagon-the-new-a3-tdi-sportback/?partner=yahootix

stever

In other, ahem, diesel news, here's a new estimate about diesel particulates and their role in air pollution deaths in Britain:

Diesel engine pollution linked to early deaths and costs NHS billions(theguardian.com)

And another variation on the story from the Daily Mail:

Switch to diesel cars 'costs 7,000 lives every year'

Interesting quote in the last story:

"Diesel now fuels more than half of UK-registered cars, up from 14 per cent in 2000. They generate far less carbon dioxide than petrol vehicles, so have been favoured in the tax system."

stever

Before I forget, this was fun:

Volvo's plug-in hybrid wagon has more torque than a Corvette (Road & Track)

Really only caught my eye because it's a wagon.

fintail

Is it a diesel issue, or a commercial/old vehicle issue? Or an emissions system issue? The comments on those Britainistan articles are as good as the story.

stevedebi

@MrShift@Edmunds said:
...

In science, to debunk a theory you have to come up with a better one, and there is no better one to explain climate change at the moment. To say "I don't believe it" is not a rebuttal.

I've stayed out of this OT stuff, but I have to disagree there.

A theory should be proven or "debunked" by the facts. No substitute is required to test a theory under the scientific method. And there are other theories that explain climate change.

Mr_Shiftright

A FUN NEW DIESEL PROJECT?

A powerplant for a diesel rat rod?

http://www.dieselworldmag.com/cummins-4bt-101-4bt-basics-performance-options

dave8697

A really bad year, losing 48 cu miles of ice due to melt in Greenland. I don't have data on what was added by snow as a compensating factor. I did calculate the ice that was added to Lake Superior this winter: 12 cubic miles of new ice.(31,700 sq miles at 2 feet thick). Just think of the surface area of all the other Great Lakes, the 10,000 lakes in Minnesota, and all those big lakes in Canada. I wouldn't be suprised if more ice was added just in N.A. this winter, than needed to counter that 'worst' year of ice loss in Greenland. Lake Superior was 25% of the needed offset, in just one place. The human population of the entire planet can be frozen into one third of one cubic mile of ice. Too bad we have paid scientists going around spreading stories about how the oceans will rise dozens of feet in 100 years, or that Greenland has recently lost 15% of it's ice by area. When, in fact an inch of ocean rise in 100 years will be a reach, along with Greenland losing a tenth of one percent of it's ice in 100 years. Again, all this assumes no snow in Greenland, even in the winter.
A quote from a Guardian Liberty Voice article from yesterday:As of April 26, 2014, the Great Lakes system reported 35 percent ice cover, which is twice as much as the next highest record in history. I have a softball game a week from today and may need to wear a sweatshirt. In just 14 weeks, days will be as short again as they are today. Our season is 20 weeks and hasn't started. S. Indiana is just 98 miles N. of Texas panhandle.

stever

In case y'all didn't notice, we closed the global warming discussion a while back. If you have some news that says diesel cars are going to help or hurt GW, fine, but otherwise we may as well be talking about the weather.

What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

ruking1

So far my gassers are costing me more for (gasser related v diesel related) repairs. I just had to do an 04 Civic repair that literally make the comparison between the 03 TDI SLIGHTLY more to a whole lot more.

dave8697

If we all drive diesels and get 20% farther on a gallon, then we run out of oil at the same time because it takes more oil to make diesel? What's to gain? Being pushed harder against the seat back when accelerating? At what cost in efficiency?

stever

I'd love to have a super MPG hybrid or EV (especially one powered by solar). Then I'd drive three times as much and have to replace my car every three years instead of every ten years.

"Free" gas means everyone else would be driving way more, and we'd have massive gridlock everywhere. Plus the gas taxes would get "weird" as the politicians try to figure out how to pay for repaving the roads.

There's no free lunch with diesel or biodiesel or super bluegreen algae either.

gagrice

@Stever@Edmunds said:
In other, ahem, diesel news, here's a new estimate about diesel particulates and their role in air pollution deaths in Britain:

Diesel engine pollution linked to early deaths and costs NHS billions(theguardian.com)

And another variation on the story from the Daily Mail:

Switch to diesel cars 'costs 7,000 lives every year'

Interesting quote in the last story:

"Diesel now fuels more than half of UK-registered cars, up from 14 per cent in 2000. They generate far less carbon dioxide than petrol vehicles, so have been favoured in the tax system."

I guess a decision has to be made. Do we go with the theory that CO2 causes GW and kill off the population or protect lives at any cost to the environment? Life is full of compromises. People know that smoking kills them and continue to smoke. My guess is old Lories without emissions equipment are the real culprit in the EU.

stever

I think it'd make sense to switch the subsidy to alternative, "cleaner" and more efficient fuels.

Like diesel hybrids.

ruking1

@gagrice said:
I guess a decision has to be made. Do we go with the theory that CO2 causes GW and kill off the population or protect lives at any cost to the environment? Life is full of compromises. People know that smoking kills them and continue to smoke. My guess is old Lories without emissions equipment are the real culprit in the EU.

The truth is that even the environmentalists don't believe their own blather. All the London authorities need do is to ban any to all ICE engines from entry and operation in London proper or improper. Of course, the place will be an instant basket case. Absolute and TOTAL disingenuousness. They can even get the Lorry fleet to use RUG/PUG. How much better was it with "ORGANIC" horse drawn transportation? PLEASE (in reply to Stever's UK anti diesel post) !!!

Further they are packing em in there where the enviro cons expect massive FLOODING (due to global warming, cooling, climate change !!! How much sanity does that show, if their hypothesis are even remotely true?

How smart can packing a city surrounded by water and BELOW sea level be? (i.e., Amsterdam)

If we need a closer to home example how about NO, LA? 300+ years lower than sea level and no one thinks it will ever flood? So some smart authorities put billions of dollars of containment walls (aka city inside a bath tub concept)t and "bilge" pumps in and does not make sure they work let alone ON when they are needed ??????

houdini1

@Stever@Edmunds said:
In case y'all didn't notice, we closed the global warming discussion a while back.

GW seems like a very topical and popular subject. Why was the forum closed, and if people want to talk about it, why not reopen it? Shifty would make a good host.

stever

You can't assume that all "greens" think alike or agree with each other on any issue, any more than you can say that about any other group, political, religious or whatever.

A diesel hybrid entering the city at night, like many places already require (no deliveries after 6 am) with a speed limit to insure lots of running around in electric mode, would surely help. And you'd stop the unneeded idling, and lower the noise level too.

London must be a lot of fun right now with the tube strike.

ruking1

Really, they are getting what they deserve. When is the garbage strike scheduled? None of our G trucks are electric. Does anyone know if London's G trucks are?

fintail

Didn't gagrice already address the amount of diesel vs gasoline from oil argument?

Europe already has diesel hybrids, at least cars - new C-class exists that way, but not on the radar for Murica, we'll get more bloated SUVs and pointless crossovers. Yay.

ruking1

Yes, On more than one occasion (actually multiple) , it has been addressed by both Gagrice and I. It has been done either separately, together or in tandem. So truly, it is not the fault of, nor the lack of knowledge, nor references to that knowledge.

The other US market realities are the cars near and dear to European's are not going to be sold here, especially IF/WHEN, they do not SELL !! I would dare even say that many US market European cars would not sell well in Europe !!! ????

The other truth is the lead (dog) markets are no longer Europe/US. It is as Gagrice as mentioned, CHINA.

Mr_Shiftright

The Dutch are very astute in dealing with flooding. Their technology is way ahead of ours in this matter. I'm sure American harbors will be calling on them in the not too distant future.

As for pollution control, of course there must be compromises. You wouldn't have a loaf of bread on your table if it wasn't for the good 'ol diesel engine coming to your neighborhood.

ruking1

They are STUCK. The simple point to learn from them is hundreds of millions, if not billions SAVED in needless remediation, locating on( need I say) HIGHER ground. ??? I hope folks aren't taking Jay Carney lessons.

Mr_Shiftright

There are definitely going to be pressures on automakers and energy producers as the new data pours in. April data shows the highest PPM of C02 ever recorded in human history--a critical number of 400 ppm. Gases trapped in ice cores samples from 800,000 years ago show considerably less CO2 in the atmosphere.

Basically, the atmosphere is becoming a waste dump for our carbon emissions, and the dump seems to be filling up.

But yes, you're right, there may not be the political will to endure the costs of mitigation. It might come down to global resignation regarding any solutions-- or something like "well, we'll do the best we can".

ruking1

..."Diesels accounted for 42% of Passat sales and 31% of all VW sales. Diesels usually notch 22% to 24% of total VW sales."...

usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/05/01/european-automakers-april-sales/8533915/