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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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I'm hoping the above is a typo, as that's 3.9 times higher for gagrice.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Yes, the intentional typo (19.5/5=390% ) demonstrates (or perhaps drives home) one of the points I have been saying all alone ! On one to a few levels, I am still in wonder why hardly anyone bats an eyelash on the ULSD price of $4.00 vs $15.60, or as you rightly figured out 390% more !! ???? (to illustrate electrical powers' WEIRD cost structure as it might apply currently to plug in cars)
You probably remember more than one say (on this board) one would not get diesel because it costs MORE per gal. ( rather than cost per mile driven: like models. )
So on a Good Friday
Local fuel station
ULSD $4.09
PUG $4.25
RUG $4.05
Yes ! yes ! yes! ULSD IS 4 cents more than RUG !!!!
?????????????
Sand Diego ULSD is 17 cents less than RUG. Cheapest gas in the County is $3.99. Cheapest diesel $3.82. Costco RUG $4.05, county average $4.24. RUG is rising, ULSD slowly going down.
So on an Easter Sunday
(same) local fuel station
ULSD $4.07 (down - 2 cents)
PUG $4.25
RUG $4.05
And here in Colorado, RUG is $3.39 while ULSD is $3.69.
You think taxes has a part to play in this?
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Local Chevron - PUG = $4.29, Diesel = $4.09 - both slowly creeping up, but a ratio that definitely favors higher line brand diesels.
Diesel will continue dropping until about August... that's when the refineries re-gear for #2 home heating oil in place of some of the #2 diesel fuel. This week, diesel is barely above PUG - local Hess is:
87 - $3.419
89 - $3.659
93 - $3.819
diesel = $3.839
By Memorial Day, diesel will be approaching 89's price.
http://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas-overview/industry-economics/~/media/Files/Statistics/StateMotorFuel_OnePagers.pdf
Again this is google able, BUT the link gives CO/CA RUG/PUG taxation @ 40.40/71.29 & DIESEL @ 44.90/73.98
So, way more taxation is at least one component of the increased prices.
Same story every year - your refineries are having problems. (motherjones)
Gasoline prices jump in California as refineries encounter trouble (LA Times)
Good conspiracy theories in this story (including the Third Law of Gougeonomics):
Usual Suspects Surface as California Gasoline Prices Soar (allgov.com)
The truckers are pushing their weight around too, and the Greens aren't happy since "Diesel soot is by far the largest contributor to cancer risk of any air pollution source in California and was declared a toxic air contaminant by the state in 1998."
Air quality board to consider another relaxation of diesel rules (LA Times)
Diesel has gone up to $4.25 in Indiana, while RUG has gone up to $3.67. Less than the usual 65 cent difference. On trip to NC last weekend, gas dropped 40 cents from IN to Knoxville, TN.
My RUG mpgs on the trip equated to mid 40's if I were paying diesel prices in my 2.4 L Malibu.
Electricity has got rediculous here in last year or two. I am using 730 KwH per month and paying $106. When I moved here 6 yrs ago, I was paying $100 for 1000 KwH. The kids moved out, I got a new dryer, and I insulated the garage and yet I still pay more. I figure I am subsidizing wind and solar to the tune of a 40% increase in prices, mostly since 2010. On the silver lining side, if I were to drive through Hazard, Ky, I probably have a lower chance of getting stuck behind a slow truck hauling coal.
The truckers are pushing their weight around too, and the Greens aren't happy since "Diesel soot is by far the largest contributor to cancer risk of any air pollution source in California and was declared a toxic air contaminant by the state in 1998."
[Air quality board to consider another relaxation of diesel rules
Looks like the truckers that have complied are not in favor of the laxing of the rules. And I don't blame them. Around here the smog producers I see are coming up from Mexico. NAFTA has made it easy for Mexican trucking companies to haul freight in and out of the USA. I wonder if CA enforces the laws on them. CA has a long history of mandating stuff then dropping the mandate after companies have spent $millions to make it happen.
It is funny the issue scattergram is figuratively and literally all over the map. Prior to the 2006 (October) mandatory ULSD cut over, ULSD compliance was rewarded by frustration by having to use LSD which the (ULSD compliant) vehicles were not designed to run. ( can cause figurative and literal GUNK build up) Sort of a backwards way of saying we were forced to NON comply with the compliance.
So for example, now if someone used LSD in their ULSD vehicle (or LSD in their LSD designed vehicle) they could literally be fined and JAILED for using the same fuel (LSD= illegal) that I was forced to use prior to 2006 ULSD mandatory cut over.
Needless to say, the irony was/is not lost on me. (are we at least partially confused and frustrated yet?)
On a slow news diesel day note, one H7 low beam decides to give up the ghost. Don't ya just hate the DRL concept?
(09 Jetta TDI 75,000 miles R/R for $15. @ the dealer, $ 9@ Walmart's.)
Slow diesel news day !
Local stores prices seem to be treading up.
RUG @ $4.09
PUG @ $4.29
ULSD @ $4.07
CNBC TV (financial news) had a news piece on higher GAS prices.
Wow; cheaper than RUG today! That's impressive.
We're getting close - only a thirty cent differential at one station we passed today between RUG and diesel (diesel was $3.89).
Diesel is $3.89 here as well. Only RUG is mostly over $4. This Shell is typical of brand name stations.
http://www.sandiegogasprices.com/Shell_Gas_Stations/San_Diego_-_South/35683/index.aspx
Evidently it is even a SLOWER news plug in day.
https://autos.yahoo.com/news/effort-sell-rav4-electric-suvs-toyota-puts-cash-134428186.html
A basic 2014 Toyota RAV4 EV has a base price of $49,800, plus a mandatory $860 delivery fee ($50,660) . (like model gasser starts off @ $24,410 to 30,580 MSRP according to edmunds.com)
..."We'll say up front that the leasing math is complicated."...
(imagine that !!!)
What would it take for ME to buy a diesel car? More money in my savings account.
I have a customer who for 8 years and 190K drove a 2005 V6 Cayenne that he bought CPO in 2006. It finally started to give him some problems and he decided it was time for something "new." He decided on a CPO 2013 Cayenne Diesel with a little over 10K on the odometer. He saved himself some cash by buying an ex-service loaner. He took me for a ride. It is identical in every way to my Mom's former 2011 V6 Cayenne except the torque thrust me back into the seat. All I can say is WOW! I'm impressed & I'm not even sure what kind of mileage he's getting yet because he hasn't had to fill up yet:)
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Yeah, 0-60 in less than 7 seconds if fast enough for me. I love the 30-80 acceleration. Great for fitting into tight freeway on ramp traffic. Hope the diesel Cayenne gives him good service.
If the car was not flogged or run into curbs a lot, the 13 Porsche Cayenne TDI is barely broken in !!
Diesel is slipping under PUG now here in NJ... my nearby Hess:
87 - $3.439
89 - $3.679
93 - $3.849
D2 - $3.819
And the Sunoco near where I used to live/work...
87 - $3.539
89 - $3.649
93 - $3.819
D2 - $3.799
Should be within striking distance of 89 for Memorial Day weekend, and could be between 87 and 89 for July 4, which is a 3-day weekend this year, so expect the "demand spike".
Weird changes today (well maybe not so weird) Local station prices are UP
RUG $ 4.15
PUG $ 4.35
D2 $ 4.13
That's like buying a Coke at McDonalds.
Small, medium or large? They all cost one dollar.
LOL !
As you know, there are a lot of folks that make a BIG deal about higher per gal D2 prices. Most (95%+of the PVF are gassers, with app 9% PUG recommended / required with less than 5% diesels ) remain unmoved by gasser/s 's higher per mile driven costs. They also ignore the much higher (than diesels) gasser/hybrid acquisition costs. And then there is wildly more expensive plug ins........
I don't remember this:
"It actually takes 20% more oil to produce a gallon of diesel than a gallon of gasoline."
Diesel vs Hybrids: The Costs and Benefits of Both (And a Shiny Calculator!) (Union of Concerned Scientists)
I will have to call the guy on his calculations. Looking at a Golf gasser 2.0L they put out 159 G/KM of CO2. The Golf TDI 2.0 L only puts out 106 G/KM. Which means the comparable vehicle burning RUG is 33% worse.
I have no idea how they came up with Diesel taking 20% more crude oil than gasoline. They get about 10 gallons of diesel from a barrel of crude and 19 gallons of gas. The rest is byproducts of several 1000 different uses. Yes diesel has more energy than gas. A gallon of distillate is a gallon of diesel. Unless they consider the removal of Sulfur which is not a waste product.
Betcha he drives a Prius. Slowly, in the left lane
I would agree. This op ed is more "political science" rather than SCIENCE. Now I do not advocate in any way want to limited a scientist's political views. The math and any number of .gov official and refinery industry web sites does/do not back up the 20% MORE assertion. Indeed a 23% diesel PVF would drastically cut down the demand for barrels of oil and the use OF RUG/PUG. This is not even to mention the 33% better diesel mpg.
The only way the assertion makes any real world or economic sense is IF they discover a refinery process that yields NO diesel and 29 gals of RUG/PUG,
So if they discover that, then it makes even more sense to discover how to yield ALL diesel (29 gals to start) and NO RUG/PUG. The reasoning here should be obvious, given diesels greater (33% and beyond) mpg advantage over RUG/PUG)
In addition, the article does not even address the fact that RUG/PUG is 2 TIMES to 18 TIMES DIRTIER (by law).
Random Fuel Station Samplings:
NYC:
RUG - $3.99
PUG - $4.27
ULSD - $4.17 (1st time I've seen diesel cheaper than super)
CT:
RUG - $3.99
PUG - $4.35
ULSD - $4.39 (1st time I've seen diesel so close to premium)
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I will have to call the guy on his calculations. Looking at a Golf gasser 2.0L they put out 159 G/KM of CO2. The Golf TDI 2.0 L only puts out 106 G/KM. Which means the comparable vehicle burning RUG is 33% worse.
I have no idea how they came up with Diesel taking 20% more crude oil than gasoline. They get about 10 gallons of diesel from a barrel of crude and 19 gallons of gas. The rest is byproducts of several 1000 different uses. Yes diesel has more energy than gas. A gallon of distillate is a gallon of diesel. Unless they consider the removal of Sulfur which is not a waste product.
"On the highway the Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel is remarkably quiet, to the point you can barely detect it's a diesel."
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit 4x4 Ecodiesel Full Test
Defacto and by almost TOTAL omission, he makes almost no mention of BIODIESEL. Indeed, it has ZERO ppm sulfur vs 30 to 90 ppm sulfur for RUG/PUG. ZERO biodiesel makes RUG/PUG DIRTIER percentages totally ridiculous. Again, defacto, the advocation is to burn MORE when less can be burned. It also goes without saying using the dirtier product at higher rates when cleaner and less will do just fine.
This is not even to mention the multiple and complex streams of what you can make biodiesel from: new, old, waste, fresh, plant, animal, etc etc. It is a total mantra theme (scarcity) in which the general goal is to scare the C--- out of everyone (for control purposes among many others).
Speaking of C---, biodiesel can be harvested FROM C---. To state the obvious, we have THAT in abundance! Try that with VERY ABUNDANT RUG/PUG !! ?????
So to entertain a fake comparison, we will use a FAKE number: 1 ppm sulfur. This of course now makes RUG/PUG 30 to 90 TIMES DIRTIER !!!!!! Monies are FAR from where the mouths are. It can be no surprise why no TDI is certified to be able to run up to 100% bio diesel.
I was sad Jeep was so far behind in getting their diesel GC to market. I will be test driving it before my next change. It has a tough act to face against the Touareg. I really don't know how VW could make it much better. I am happy we have some mid size SUV choices now. A small CUV with 4 cylinder diesel is really needed. The GLK is smaller but not in a lot of people's budget.
Yes, I think that the Jeep TDI delays upends a lot on its head.
If the 14 GLK 250 BT can be gotten (sans the package padding/s) under the 40k MSRP , the "luxe" name plate can be a FAR better value ! ? It can more normally be had for 44k to 50 k. However it can be deceptively easy to drift to a tad under 60k (58k) I have read 2.99 % MB financing.
The 14 VW T TDI REMAINS the SCREAMING secret hidden in plain sight (if sales volume (or lack there of) is any indicator ). When you add the .9% financing 2014 for 60 mo I have read about,,, WOW !!
more useless facts. The pres said in 2012 we would have 1 million elec vehicles by 2016. We have 84,000 or 8% of goal in 66% of time. As far as global warming goes, they just figured out that ethanol is worse than gasoline for carbon dioxide creation. And for this we are emptying the Olagallah aquifer to give away food. There are 3100 cubic miles of moisture in the atmosphere at any given moment. That moisture is at an avg temp of 50-60F. Based on 7 billion people, that gives 80 million pounds of water and snow in the air for me. Lake Superior has another 80 million pounds of 34 degree water just for me. Greenland...it has 7.5 billion pounds of ice just for me. Yes, Billion, and yes, JUST for ME. The Antarctic has even more for me. The Earth has warmed by 1 degree C since 1850. Nobody wants to ever have another winter like the one of 1815-16. Millions starved to death due to failed growing season. Why do we get alarmed when 48 cubic miles out of 3 million cubic miles of Ice on Greenland melt in one full year? That is equal to $1.60 out of $100,000.00 as a fraction. Last week they had to break through 2 foot thick ice to get a coal barge into a UP Mich. port to unload coal to keep a factory running so people could work. 62% of Lake Superior was still frozen.
a commission is due to ruking if anyone here buys a vw 2reg-tdi . (and just so you cross-shoppers know, GM is offering the 0.9 financing on 2014 CTS-Vs.)
GM is offering the 0.9 financing on 2014 CTS-Vs.
Is that in league with a Touareg TDI? Not in my book. I sure hope they add a gas guzzler tax to the 14 MPG Premium gas hog. You can buy a faster Corvette and get 33% better mileage.
It would appear that "Global Warming"(before that, Global ICE Cooling) , aka Global Climate change (who knows what it will be called in the future, when it becomes more than apparent Al Gore is on to something with private jet use) is taking on the vestments of THE state's religious tenets. Prayer services will begin @ the ANTI anti rally potluck...
All suffering and pain to the Climate Change Deniers !!
Good post. We have been having a good discussion on "global warming" over on the "stories from the sales front lines" forum of all places. Come on over.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Well, EV's have been working well on GOLF courses !!
Maybe they'll switch to diesel carts to keep the fees down
I must have overlooked that (diesel) ? So, is the 14 CTS-Vs offered in DIESEL ?????????
I just checked "all incentives," ( for the 14 CTS V;s, Edmunds.com) it indicates 2.9 % for the 60 month term ! ?? Need to hurry, the offer appears to end in 2/3 days @ 04/30/2014
Interestingly enough if one is "cross shopping" ( gassers also), the Touareg comes in two other versions, one gasser, the other, supercharged gasser hybrid. @ .9% also.
66 to 72 mo terms jump up WILDLY to 1.59%.
Of course, Prius V is available with 0.0 for 60 mos right now with $1500 cash on top, and has 2 more cubic feet of cargo room than the Touareg. :-P
Of course, it's DEADLY slow and has a plastic fantastic interior. It also costs $20K less for the top model vs the base Touareg TDI....and uses 40% less fuel.....
On a different note, I was most sad to see VWoA cancel the upcoming U.S. sales of the GTD from Europe...the regular Golf diesel is so slow and soft....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Indeed, a real good reason to let the higher DIESEL ( 75) mpg cars (like Polo) into the country. It uses WAY less fuel than the Prius
While I am not an expert in the various model cars in Europe ( or the world markets), most to almost all models have @ least one diesel option. Way less monies than the overpriced and over complicated Prius and Camry/Highlander hybrids. Way cheaper also than the other Toyota and Lexus hybrids, in keeping with the apples to banana's comparisons .
US markets (We) on the other hand are lucky to have (VERY) few models that have (only) ONE diesel option.
Now if only they would let my 2003 Jetta TDI with 187,000 miles pass CA .gov mountain chain controls without chains..... the NON Touareg would be WAY cheaper...... Do I NEED a AWD/4WD to drive in snow? No ! Evidently the STATE (s) sees that as an option.
Even in the relatively power less (155# ft of torque, (so sad the 03 Prius even has more hp (24 more) ) old 2003 TDI, I have little to no issues passing Priuses on LONG upgrades (to 7,388 ft) .
I saw RUG and diesel at the same price (3.99) at a Chevron today, PUG 20-30 cents more. Nice.
That would be a real stretch comparing a Touareg to a Prius. I think it is obvious why Toyota is making deals. The Prius sales are in the toilet. Down 21.7% for the year. 1200+ within 75 miles of me. have you driven the Sportswagen TDI with manual transmission? The price is less for the VW than the Prius V. And you get your manual transmission.
I think a lot of folks do the math and Prius makes little sense over say the Honda Civic segment. (I am obviously leaving out a lot of other "worthy" competition in that segment) I think that was true for me in 04 (Civic) and continues to probably be true in 14, 10 MY's later.
Yes, it would also appear closer SUV/CUV comparison/s would be the Lexus 450 H (Edmunds.com has them MSRP @ $47,320 vs the test mule (that I tried any number of times) MB GLK 250 BT. MSRP starting at $ 39,905 ?
Looks like the Touareg has about the same maximum cargo capacity as the Sportswagen and Prius V (all are a bit under 70 cubic feet). The Highlander comes in around 83 cubic feet. The issue with the Prius for us was the small hatch opening due to the sloping roof. That's been the deal breaker for us but we'd probably manage just fine anyway.
Yes, I have, and I was being a bit facetious earlier. If I absolutely had to go out and purchase a fuel-sipper today, it would probably be the Sportwagen TDI with manual, with which I was suitably impressed when I drove it. But I would pay extra for the very longest B2B warranty I could possibly get. I don't trust the Mexican-built VWs, they tend to be fairly crappy in the long run.
What was nice in the past was that the TDIs were still imported from Germany. Not so any more, or for the last few years, as I understand it.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The Problem I see with the Highlander Hybrid is about $18k more than the standard Highlander and real World mileage only about 3 MPG gain over the 4 cylinder Highlander. And a couple MPG less than the Touareg TDI. If you are considering the Highlander, I would take the Subaru and get for sure better mileage.