What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

ruking1

On second thought, I am swagging the smaller engine will probably use slightly more than the larger engine. I certainly use the smaller engine more aggressively than the 3.0 L . 100 mph comes up pretty quick on the 3.0L as it lulls one to sleep. On a 2.0 I am whipping its haunches. @ those speeds the engine is SCREAMING. (figuratively of course)

ruking1

El Presidentiae just moved on ! link title

jpp75

I'd give the diesel C class serious consideration for my next ride if they bring it over.

stever

Since petrol is the equivalent of one cent a US gallon in Caracas when I recently checked, I don't think it's going to get any cheaper. :shades:

"BNSF Railway Co., one of the country's biggest consumers of diesel fuel, plans this year to test using natural gas to power its locomotives instead."

Berkshire's BNSF Railway to Test Switch to Natural Gas (WSJ)

gagrice

That could have an effect on urea usage. I also read it has to do with how hard you push the engine. Anyway I don't believe it is the cost issue it was made out to be at first. Does VW include it with the service contract like BMW?

gagrice

With Chavez dead it may jump up to market price. Depending on what the next greedy dictator decides to do with the oil wealth. They did kick out our diplomats. Another country we are enemies with.

ruking1

Yes, I am sure more aggressive rpm does have an effect. I think I will probably use even less (ad blue), once the break in is complete (@30,000 to 60,000 miles)

I am finding it hard to push the 3.0 engine very hard without using lower gearing, as I did during early break in (under 65 mph). I do let it decelerate as aggressively as I can (or probably more operationally: NTE 4,000 rpm) without being a safety hazard on LONGER downgrades. The "no fuel draw" feature (with no throttle demand) really adds to the mpg. The 8 speed A/T is also VERY robust.

I think we showed the cost/s. Truly it does not seem to be the issue that some might have feared. In any case I think the supporting data/formulas is/are there for anyone to use as they see fit. I got the Ad blue cheaper than Walmart's prices. It is probably why they include it in the contract !? :shades:

fintail

The basic Prius isn't terribly expensive, and a VW TDi isn't too upmarket - many 4cyl cars get good mileage too these days. The impacts might not be as great as could be though, for like you say - with rising fuel market prices via no valid market reasons, efficient cars don't help people save, rather just maintain the same expense.

fintail

I would have chosen one instead of an E if it existed here. C250 seems like the optimal choice for me - decent performance and mileage, while still being an actual car.

ruking1

To me that is one utility of the VW Jetta TDI. It is NOT upmarket. :surprise: Another is given the fact this 10/11 year old car is getting close to turning 200,000, it is almost NOT a challenge to turn 300,000 miles. 50 mpg driven hard might be another. :shades:

stever

Funny how that works. I think I've talked my wife into deferring car shopping for another year. She knows I'm trying to have one car in my life that I put 200k on.

Not having driven the van for 2 months isn't helping run the miles up though. :shades:

(and I'd settle for one 30 mpg tank driven easy).

gagrice

The most I have personally put on a vehicle is 107k miles on a 1974 Dodge Van. The engine needed overhaul at 104K. So I had the engine and transmission rebuilt at the same time. It was 1983 and they charged me $1700 total. I drove it about 6 months and traded it on a new Ford Bronco. Most they would give me in trade was $1700. Lesson learned on keeping vehicles too long and spending money on repairs. The 84 Ford Bronco was one of my favorite vehicles.

ruking1

As you guys talk it is actually causing me to alter my perspectives a bit.

I am not sure how CA compares with the audiences in the other 50 states, but I am not eager to spend close to 9% in sales tax every 100,000 miles.

So folks can easily get a handle on it, PER 10k that is app 900.

So 20k, 30k , 40k (for a car) can put that @ a + plus $1.8k, 2.7k, 3.6k. It also boosts your car registration to ever increasing new year car registration, which does go down every year after. There is talk of reinstating the 2% declining yearly fee, in lieu of state income tax. This would be in addition to the state sales tax. In other words tax on tax is the concept. The realities are tax on tax on tax, etc. Insurance also spikes and you carry comprehensive and collision insurance almost perpetually.

To state the obvious, going forward, one will have a hard time buying a $10,900 vehicle. Just the simple fact of unstated inflation boosts the price of a car from year to year app 4%. So really for planning purposes, one is really looking at a $21,800. Again, even that is a moving target.

gagrice

Thinking about taxes per mile driven is a REAL cost to drivers. Worrying about the half cent for AdBlue is chump change per year. If you drive your diesel 15,000 miles per year in CA AdBlue is about $75 of your cost per year.
Your fuel tax on the same miles at 30 MPG will be $397.50. Toss in another $450 per year for state vehicle registration, and you get some serious taxes on driving here.

ruking1

Indeed I would agree.

I mean I can understand a non diesel type blowing an intellectual gasket at the thought of ad blue (additional) costs and the extra effort. So for example, if I DIY for the ad blue (given your example plus real costs @ 20 per 15,000 miles), the ad blue costs per mile driven is closer to .00133.

stever

Plus a couple of hours of time (shopping and pouring it in).

But yeah, guys like me who balk at buying a car that requires premium fuel or having to use synthetic oil don't like the thought of additional maintenance.

fintail

From what I can tell from the adblu tank on my car, it's insanely easy to refill - the tank is in the spare tire well, and the filling hole is right on top. Get a funnel and pour.

Guys like you aren't going to shop a complex or highline car to begin with

stever

Nope, and I don't want to fight your traffic to find a jug at Fred Meyers either.

Interesting that you think diesel cars are "complex" though.

ruking1

I do not have the specs, but the consumption rates of the MB E350 bluetec are probably not much different from the VW Touareg's. The most complicated procedure I have to do to add adblue is to remove all the junk in the way of the trunk to get to the tanks filling neck. In the Touareg's case a backing and a rug and a catch mat.

fintail

Could probably buy it online and have it shipped. Who shops for everything on foot these days? :shades:

A diesel like mine is a complex car compared to the base Rio that might appeal to a skinflint. The systems will be unfamiliar to the normal gasoline car driver, and finding fuel will worry them. It's probably not for everyone, but could be for many more than it is now.

stever

Well, never having owned one I can't really say, but my guess is that the biggest complexity is finding a mechanic who has diesel training. A good dealership should cover that base.

And yeah, the USPS woman has been here twice already this week. :-)

Mr_Shiftright

Well he has a point---diesels today are very sophisticated in their own right--just because they don't have a normal ignition system doesn't mean they don't have computers, turbos, emissions systems, etc.

They also run extremely high compression ratios and are fuel-sensitive buggers, so you have to be on your toes to run a diesel.

ruking1

The points are well taken. However I think the truth in ANY make (gaser/diesels) are a good mechanic/s, let alone a good SHOP/s are jewels !!The down side of that is not all jewels are TREASURES.

gagrice

But yeah, guys like me who balk at buying a car that requires premium fuel or having to use synthetic oil don't like the thought of additional maintenance.

That is why they make plain vanilla ice cream. I prefer Dulce de leche or better yet a nice Creme Brulee with fresh raspberries on top.

ruking1

Further, most all those things are unscheduled maintenance. Most of the scheduled stuff CAN be DYI. Now I personally can do most to all except the 100,000, 120,000 miles timing belt and water pump changes, scheduled major tune, aka diesel related, arguably. Schedule maintenance like oil and filter changes, tire rotation, are really not diesel related, per se. Brake rotors, pads, suspension, parts alignment and tire changing and alignments are others that are not per se diesel related.

So I just had one of my first diesel related unscheduled maintenance items @ app 179,000 miles. Computer scan indicated an intermittent #3 glow plug check idiot light issue. The $69 glow plug harness was swapped out and just for preventative grins, 4 glow plugs were changed out. Over kill? yes.

xwesx

Overkill? I'd say that's wise preventative maintenance. It may be premature at 179,000 (my father-in-law's 1997 F350 diesel is having glow plug issues at 350,000 miles, but his truck was used as a pilot vehicle for 300K of those, so there were many miles driven between starts), but bad glow plugs will strand you in the least opportune of places.

You just reset the clock for the whole system. That's a wise move to prevent down time in the future as they each fail one by one.

Mr_Shiftright

that F350 couldn't have its original turbo, though right? They were known to be fragile.

ruking1

Thanks for the heads up. I have always taken the attitude to call em as I see them or when they happen.

crkyolfrt

I agree, money well spent..plus, leaving them in too long can result in a very complicated issue getting them out. I speak from experience on my old 77 Rabbit.. :sick:

crkyolfrt

Boy, that's for sure. Now I can't speak for the new HPFP systems, but the old mechanical injection pumps had tolerances closer than any gas job. In fact, when working on a pump, the tolerances are so close, that if you hold some parts in your hand too long before placing them, the heat from your hand will expand them enough they won't fit and you have to start over. Plus, if ya wanna talk clean?.. when working on pump innards..how about needing to be almost as clean as a manufacturing plant that produces CD's.