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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Europeans drive less, drive more efficient vehicles, generally live closer to work, etc. And they actually get something for those high fuel taxes, like transit and nice infrastructure, so the crying about price is usually only a moderate whimper. I don't think the prices are the contributor to the economic malaise, rather, the EU is an example of the road to hell being paved with good intentions, and that too many members simply have dissimilar work ethics and economies...and too much leadership are more examples of patronizing self-hating old folks who think they can save the world.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    What you're seeing here is a growing trend among dealers to stock only the most popular models and to showcase videos of the rest of the lineup. This is because automakers like Audi (and the Germans in general) will soon be fielding up to 60 (not a typo!) models in a model year, in order to cover every conceivable niche market and steal every conceivable sale from their competitors.

    Platform sharing and more efficient engineering processes make this cost effective.

    So in the future, don't expect any niche cars to actually be in German car showrooms. You'll have to order 'em up from the factory.

    As for test drives, since there is so much platform sharing, you can probably scare up a similar model to drive that is more mainstream.
    gagrice said:

    San Diego county dealers have 4 GLK250 Bluetec, 11 GLK350 gas. I looked at the numbers on leasing a Mercedes ML350 BlueTec and it just did not work for me.

    Looking at the Touareg TDI, the choices are even more limited. Only 3 available in SD county. And they are proud of them. Like model to mine for $18k more, I don't think so. Looking at the used Touaregs matching mine, there are 4 in the entire USA for sale. With 20k miles price is $45k. That means I have only lost a little over $3 grand in a year and a half and 20k miles. I can live with that loss. That is a TCO in Prius range and getting to drive a Luxury vehicle.

    Talking about holding their value. A 2013 ML350 BlueTec with 288,805 miles is listed for $46k. That is a heap of driving on a two year old vehicle.

    http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/625936193/overview/

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    So in the future, don't expect any niche cars to actually be in German car showrooms. You'll have to order 'em up from the factory.


    Starting in 1974 I found ordering from the factory or a dealer in another city, the best way to get what I wanted at the price I wanted to pay. I went to the Anchorage Dodge dealer intending to buy a new extra length van. He had a bunch without AC. I asked if I could order one with Air. He flat out told me what was on the lot is what I had to chose from. So I called dealers in Seattle and Portland and the dealer in Seattle was most accommodating. And I saved enough for my wife and me to fly down, and drive the van back to Alaska. This VW is the first new vehicle I have bought from a local dealer in decades. And it came from AZ. I am pretty sure I would have had to factory order a vehicle if we went with a MB ML350 BlueTec.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited January 2015
    it is a mystery why this "new protocol" has taken so long to hit the mainstream, OVER the concept of say manufacturing say 250,000 Corollas (shorter orders of Audi's, MB's per Shiftright's example) and hoping to heaven they all can be sold ?

    So for example, Chevrolet (Corvette) has been doing this for a while (since 2000 that I am familiar ) for a so called "niche" vehicle. Not one is made without "somebodies name" on the order.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I can believe it. When I re-upped my lease, the diesel prices just weren't bad, the selection was poor - there weren't many cars optioned in a way I would consider. Much easier with a gasser.

    Audi-BMW-MB probably combine for 60 models already. So much brand equity to take advantage of.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited January 2015
    Audi expects to field 60 models by 2019. 60!

    Hey, don't knock it I guess, Buick has managed quite well by living in those niche-y cracks.

    We may see a diesel in every model line pretty soon, at least from Germany.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited January 2015
    Buick has been a VERY long time "Rodney Dangerfield" for GM. It has been one of GM's most durable, reliable, value, etc. products.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Sometimes the model count can be deceptive - counting FWD vs AWD cars, or engine variations.

    If we could only get the C250 Bluetec wagon - I'd probably buy rather than lease, and keep it for awhile.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited January 2015
    fintail said:

    Sometimes the model count can be deceptive - counting FWD vs AWD cars, or engine variations.

    If we could only get the C250 Bluetec wagon - I'd probably buy rather than lease, and keep it for awhile.

    The VW JSW (Jetta (station) Sport Wagen) has certainly demonstrated the concept and for more than over a decade. I have read the JSW TDI take rate is @ 85%.

    We all (5 drivers) are loving the 2.1 L twin turbo diesel !!! (in the MB 250 BT) My guess is that engine is peppier in the wagon !!

    When used in commute traffic with 3 (drivers), it posts app 37 mpg.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    fintail said:

    Sometimes the model count can be deceptive - counting FWD vs AWD cars, or engine variations.

    If we could only get the C250 Bluetec wagon - I'd probably buy rather than lease, and keep it for awhile.

    Are you totally against owning a CUV? If I was just after a wagon the GLK250 BT would be at the top of the list. You should drive one if you haven't yet. You will thank me when you get a bit older and lifting yourself out of a sedan kills your back.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited January 2015
    Slow news diesel day.

    ULSD $2.99

    RUG $ 2.35

    MG $2.45

    PUG $2.55

    Based on US average yearly miles of 12,000 to 15,000 miles, AND average mpg of 24.1 mpg, that is an average monthly range of 1,000 to 1,250 miles and 41 gals to 52 gals.

    The VW Jetta TDI sedan (that is an average monthly range of 1,000 to 1,250 miles) @ 41 mpg (commute) is using 24 gals to 30 gals per mo.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I filled Thursday at ARCO for $2.48 cash. All ARCO are still cash or Debit (with charge) in San Diego. Then Costco that sells diesel dropped to $2.45 which is all CC service with 3% cash back. That brings the price down to $2.38 a gallon.

    Same price as PUG.

    http://www.sandiegogasprices.com/Costco_Gas_Stations/Chula_Vista/75686/index.aspx
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2015
    ruking1 said:

    Slow news diesel day.

    I can fix that. B)

    “Having long been seen as a ‘clean fuel’, diesel is now seeing something of a backlash in Europe,” says Stuart Pearson, analyst at Exane BNP Paribas.

    Cities are under pressure from the European Commission to tackle pollution. Studies from the International Council on Clean Transportation, a research body, and King’s College, part of the University of London, have highlighted the scale of emissions from diesel vehicles and linked them to as many as 60,000 deaths a year in the UK."

    Carmakers braced for European crackdown on diesel vehicles (ft.com)

    Note that the French government owns about 15% of Renault and Peugeot, the biggest sellers in France, so this is a bit of shooting oneself in the foot. .

    And another interesting quote from the link:

    "While Europe leads the world as the biggest market for diesel cars, there has been very little take-up in Japan and the US.

    “Unless the market in diesel takes off around the world — and that looks increasingly unlikely — the European manufacturers are effectively backing the wrong technology,” says Greg Archer, clean vehicles manager at Transport & Environment, a Brussels-based think-tank."
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited January 2015
    stever said:

    ruking1 said:

    Slow news diesel day.

    I can fix that. B)

    "“Having long been seen as a ‘clean fuel’, diesel is now seeing something of a backlash in Europe,” says Stuart Pearson, analyst at Exane BNP Paribas.

    Cities are under pressure from the European Commission to tackle pollution. Studies from the International Council on Clean Transportation, a research body, and King’s College, part of the University of London, have highlighted the scale of emissions from diesel vehicles and linked them to as many as 60,000 deaths a year in the UK."


    Carmakers braced for European crackdown on diesel vehicles (ft.com)
    I can't say that at this stage in my life that I feel motivated to live in the EU. At one time, I had jobs lined up, one in the UK and one in Germany. I had at the time, the mindset to be over there anywhere from 4 to 12 years.

    Yes, $8.00 US per gal fuel in the EU is not enough when ULSD here (local) is $2.38 to $2.99 !!! Can't wait to apply a .50 cent discount and back out the 3% card discounts. (2.41 pr gal)

    I would really love for the EU's 75 mpg TDI's to hit the US markets and for ULSD to hit my delusional $1.85 gal !!

    That would put per mile driven fuel @ 2.467 cents !!!!! The monthly (COMMUTE) bill would be less than $31 !!!! /3 would be $10.33 per person @ 225 mpg in commuter eze. GEEZ monthly connectivity would cost more !!!

    While they are at, it they should ban ALL plane, ships, etc.etc., that use fossilized fuels !! You think EU economies are BAD now !! ???

    Here is a 2003 VW Golf TDI for sale

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2es86ffElSo&feature=youtu.be

    Over the years I have seen the owner @ GTG's

    There is a WHOLE total TMI over kill @ another TDI web site.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Looks like the same recycled report with 60k dead from diesel pollution. Very likely the oil companies are behind these reports. That kind of backdoor pressure is as old as the oil industry. Rockefeller pushing gas by getting alcohol banned. Of course they don't like diesel. People travel twice as far on a gallon. I don't think cities like London and Paris have done anything to eliminate diesel buses and delivery trucks. Large polluted cities should just ban all fossil fueled vehicles. Go EV, horse back or bicycle.

    "I want to see the end of diesel in Paris by 2020," she said, adding that there exceptions could be made for low-income car owners to allow them to use old vehicles only occasionally.

    "Today 60 percent of Parisians already do not have cars, compared with 40 percent in 2001. Things are changing quickly."

    Hidalgo's plan also includes limits on the tourist buses that clog Paris streets, banning trucks from cutting through the city on their way elsewhere, and adding electric vans to the city's car-sharing scheme.


    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/07/us-paris-pollution-idUSKBN0JL0FO20141207
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2015
    Oil's oil - wouldn't it be the refineries who would back diesel use?

    >>Large polluted cities should just ban all fossil fueled vehicles.

    Careful what you wish for. :)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Most of you will probably live to see the day when a major city bans all fossil-fuel vehicles from its centers. Not sure I want to count on electric fire engines however. :)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    Most of you will probably live to see the day when a major city bans all fossil-fuel vehicles from its centers. Not sure I want to count on electric fire engines however. :)


    Good point. And even harder for emergency vehicles to find fuel for their vehicles. No demand, no gas stations. Anything can happen, I would have never believed that New Orleans would come down with such a strong ban on smoking, even E-Cigarettes. For decades owning a car in NYC has been very expensive. I am sure most major cities would like to get rid of the congestion and the pollution that goes along with it. As the Boomers retire and move to Sun Cities in CA, AZ and FL. The younger lower paid Millenials will probably rethink their need for vehicles if they live in a city of any size. I cannot see US old dudes giving up our SUVs while we can still see to drive. Though there are some 80-90 year olds driving around here that are scary.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2015
    Nah, when you move to Sun City you get an electric golf car with cladding on it to look like a SUV (or Rolls, or a VW Bug).

    Looks like the EU would adopt our more stringent diesel emissions regs if they really were trying to cut down on the particulates, at least on the passenger cars. I guess they are in the pipeline, but you'd think moving the regs forward would be easier to do politically than banning cars.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Oil's oil - wouldn't it be the refinerys who would back diesel use?

    Unless they make a lot more on diesel, I cannot see why they would. The real issue in the EU cities is emissions control. They do not have the same expensive systems that we have with urea. They have sold over 50% diesel cars for a long time with little smog control. I can see their concern. Thankfully the Germans were able to overcome the obstacles put in the way of diesel by CARB and EPA. They will have to pry my cold dead fingers off my diesel SUV.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited January 2015
    stever said:

    Nah, when you move to Sun City you get an electric golf car with cladding on it to look like a SUV (or Rolls, or a VW Bug).

    Looks like the EU would adopt our more stringent diesel emissions regs if they really were trying to cut down on the particulates, at least on the passenger cars. I guess they are in the pipeline, but you'd think moving the regs forward would be easier to do politically than banning cars.

    Mark my words, no matter what they go to (energy source) @ some point it will be vilified enough to be taken out.

    So for example, SF CA still uses cable cars ! (aka, OLD OLD OLD electro mechanical, aka electrically very inefficient) with SERIOUS health and safety issues !!!! I am sure they know and have done studies that a statistically significant # of TOURISTS (using pollution devices to get there) will no longer come. Electrical (antenna) buses were installed and summarily removed, Now for some reason, the electrtical idea has resurrected. In addition, the electricity has been and is still FREE.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Stever: Nah, when you move to Sun City you get an electric golf car with cladding on it to look like a SUV (or Rolls, or a VW Bug).

    That is true, when my tax man moved from here to the Villages in FL, the place came with a golf cart. Said he rarely used his RX while he lived there. Now he is back here at Lawrence Welk retirement community. More driving as there is not much shopping at LW complex. The RX is about 15 years old and less than 50k miles.

    For me a Golf TDI would be about perfect for short trips.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Yay, reactionary action from moronic often guillotine-worthy greenie weenies in the EUSSR. History will end up proving that nothing good comes from Brussels, not even their sprouts.
    stever said:

    ruking1 said:

    Slow news diesel day.

    I can fix that. B)

    “Having long been seen as a ‘clean fuel’, diesel is now seeing something of a backlash in Europe,” says Stuart Pearson, analyst at Exane BNP Paribas.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I'm not in the demographic, at least not yet. I see highline CUVs driven by two groups - old guys (no offense meant, I am not getting any younger, myself), and women who have infinite disposable income but don't seem to have ever held a real job. Maybe get back to me in 30 years, if we still have fuel then, if I live that long, if I have money, etc.

    To me, this is worlds better looking than the Tonka toy-like GLK, and probably drives worlds better, too:

    image

    gagrice said:

    fintail said:



    Are you totally against owning a CUV? If I was just after a wagon the GLK250 BT would be at the top of the list. You should drive one if you haven't yet. You will thank me when you get a bit older and lifting yourself out of a sedan kills your back.

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited January 2015
    fintail said:

    I'm not in the demographic, at least not yet. I see highline CUVs driven by two groups - old guys (no offense meant, I am not getting any younger, myself), and women who have infinite disposable income but don't seem to have ever held a real job. Maybe get back to me in 30 years, if we still have fuel then, if I live that long, if I have money, etc.

    To me, this is worlds better looking than the Tonka toy-like GLK, and probably drives worlds better, too:

    image



    gagrice said:

    fintail said:



    Are you totally against owning a CUV? If I was just after a wagon the GLK250 BT would be at the top of the list. You should drive one if you haven't yet. You will thank me when you get a bit older and lifting yourself out of a sedan kills your back.


    Yes, the wallowing land yacht look and @ $80,000 to $120,000 ? If so, I'd take 2 to 3 "Tonka" models. The smaller E 350 class wagon is way too big and expensive @ 60k MSRP.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Europe didn't even have mandatory catalytic converters until the 90s, I believe.

    The problem is still virtually unregulated commercial vehicles, and ill-maintained old (non-classic) cars still in the overall fleet. To throw the entire vehicle type based out on a small problem is as irresponsible as, well, the people who support such action.
    gagrice said:

    Oil's oil - wouldn't it be the refinerys who would back diesel use?

    Unless they make a lot more on diesel, I cannot see why they would. The real issue in the EU cities is emissions control. They do not have the same expensive systems that we have with urea. They have sold over 50% diesel cars for a long time with little smog control. I can see their concern. Thankfully the Germans were able to overcome the obstacles put in the way of diesel by CARB and EPA. They will have to pry my cold dead fingers off my diesel SUV.

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited January 2015
    fintail said:

    Europe didn't even have mandatory catalytic converters until the 90s, I believe.

    The problem is still virtually unregulated commercial vehicles, and ill-maintained old (non-classic) cars still in the overall fleet. To throw the entire vehicle type based out on a small problem is as irresponsible as, well, the people who support such action.


    gagrice said:

    Oil's oil - wouldn't it be the refinerys who would back diesel use?

    Unless they make a lot more on diesel, I cannot see why they would. The real issue in the EU cities is emissions control. They do not have the same expensive systems that we have with urea. They have sold over 50% diesel cars for a long time with little smog control. I can see their concern. Thankfully the Germans were able to overcome the obstacles put in the way of diesel by CARB and EPA. They will have to pry my cold dead fingers off my diesel SUV.

    Even if you were able to wave the magic wands and achieve those goals, there will be no measurable as well as statistically meaningful decrease to pollution, let alone correlation to the 60,000 alleged deaths they want folks to be scared about.

    Indeed, I was reading a "health" article indicating 400,000 deaths per year are due SOLELY to hospital "mistakes."
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    True, because as those of us who don't like in Paris, London, or Brussels (centers for one world lowest common denominator garbage, no less) will admit, eliminate diesel vehicles entirely and pollution won't go away.
    ruking1 said:



    Even if you were able to wave the magic wands and achieve those goals, there will be no measurable as well as statistically meaningful decrease to pollution.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    It's a C wagon. Price would be similar to C sedan, starting in the 40s, going up with options of course.

    Regarding wallowing, I'll take one of those on the track vs a GLK, I wonder who will win :)
    ruking1 said:

    fintail said:

    I'


    Yes, the wallowing land yacht look and @ $80,000 to $120,000 ? If so, I'd take 2 to 3 "Tonka" models. The smaller E 350 class wagon is way too big and expensive @ 60k MSRP.

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited January 2015
    fintail said:

    It's a C wagon. Price would be similar to C sedan, starting in the 40s, going up with options of course.

    Regarding wallowing, I'll take one of those on the track vs a GLK, I wonder who will win :)

    ruking1 said:

    fintail said:

    I'


    Yes, the wallowing land yacht look and @ $80,000 to $120,000 ? If so, I'd take 2 to 3 "Tonka" models. The smaller E 350 class wagon is way too big and expensive @ 60k MSRP.

    Mine will spend ZERO time and ZERO % on a track. Indeed given my posts, you should have a pretty good idea how and where I run it and why it's a GLK instead of a say,... C class (not yet available) wagon let alone diesel wagon. I've had to watch it to keep it from being in the 95 to 100 percentile on two lane mountain roads UPGRADE to 7,380 ft altitude !!! I am not PUSHING IT !! ???. Going downgrade from (7,380 ft altitude, it is an absolute no brainer to get 49.9 mpg for app 90 miles. So now that you mention it, I do now wonder what a C wagon BT would do in the exact leg of the trek.

    Even in the real world, it has never been about testosterone. So you "win," if it meets your wants and needs, plus they are YOUR nickels. The GLK meets mine, even as I do not want and/or need the "4 motion" portion (the NON option is not an option for the BT). :(;) It does however meet the requirement @ defacto CA government chain control set ups.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Then why care about someone else wallowing? ;)

    I'd take a GLK over an ML, GLA might even be better, but alas, no diesel here.
    ruking1 said:



    Mine will spend ZERO time on a track. Even in the real world, it has never been about testosterone. So you "win," if it mets your wants and needs, plus they are YOUR nickels.

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    fintail said:

    Then why care about someone else wallowing? ;)

    I'd take a GLK over an ML, GLA might even be better, but alas, no diesel here.


    ruking1 said:



    Mine will spend ZERO time on a track. Even in the real world, it has never been about testosterone. So you "win," if it mets your wants and needs, plus they are YOUR nickels.

    I am glad you acknowledge the point.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2015
    There's a new Accord Hybrid owner wondering about other's experiences today because he's not getting his 50mpg EPA. I don't know if he even has used one tank of gas yet. The neighbors across the street just got one but I forgot to ask about their mpg when the mom came over with her kids to sell us some Girl Scout cookies (bless her. :) )

    Speaking of gas, just filled up for $1.56 at the Bradley. They were out of Premium or maybe they don't bother selling it. Or maybe the one pump I used was broken - the little sign looked like it had been on the pump for a good while. No diesel either.

    The Valero catty-corner across the street was selling regular for $1.69 and diesel for $2.77. Drive another mile or two toward the college and regular is $1.89.

    Not sure I would have driven the extra couple of miles to save the $2 on the tank but I was down in the area getting some shawarmas. Walked over to the Restore store in the same strip mall and passed one of those MB wagons - don't ask me which one, it was older though. Kind of appealing. The next rig I noticed, naturally, was an idling diesel pickup, rattling and belching away, parked so close to the wall of the store we had to walk behind him and through his fumes.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Fintail: To me, this is worlds better looking than the Tonka toy-like GLK, and probably drives worlds better, too:

    I do agree the GLK is not as sleek as I would like. I look more for ground clearance. I hate that scraping sound my wife's Lexus makes when you go into steep cut driveways. Not to mention the potholes. The Audi Allroad wagons were my top pick a few years ago. Styling, handling and ground clearance. The ones without the fish mouth preferred. Diesel will have to be offered. Best compromise between wagon and CUV.


  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Stever: I was down in the area getting some shawarmas.

    I can't believe they have an Arab restaurant in Las Cruces. We have at least a dozen restaurants, delis and grocery stores where you can get Shawarma meats. No two taste the same. Some taste like Gyro others much different spices. So many choices and so little time. I like them all, I am not a vegan.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    This place is usually pretty okay but today it was a bit disappointing. The Thai place we go to isn't bad either, and they give $1 refills on Thai ice tea. We're kind of in a rut though, keep hitting the same five or six joints instead of trying more. You should burn a tank (maybe less :) ) and pop over for lunch.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    If our infrastructure continues to decay, CUVs will certainly become more appealing. I'll never choose another car with big wheels and low profile tires, anyway.

    Allroad was a good idea, too bad about the reliability.

    These things with PUG requirements for gassers, and a bit of mass to haul around, are just made for diesel.
    gagrice said:


    I do agree the GLK is not as sleek as I would like. I look more for ground clearance. I hate that scraping sound my wife's Lexus makes when you go into steep cut driveways. Not to mention the potholes. The Audi Allroad wagons were my top pick a few years ago. Styling, handling and ground clearance. The ones without the fish mouth preferred. Diesel will have to be offered. Best compromise between wagon and CUV.

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited January 2015
    Well guy's, I was in a rig that burned app 1.5 hours of fuel for $4.65 a gal @ 140 mph? (120-125 knots or so) :D The small plane flight was @ 3,500 ft altitude or so. The route triangulated app 3 airports, Palo Alto air patch, (a bit past Moffat Naval Air Field) past SFO and around Oakland Intl in a right x 4 pattern. This flight put us in almost TOTAL gratitude mode.

    Yes, the GLK styling is probably NOT to most folks liking. It is also reputed to have windshield noise issues above 75 mph. So far, each of the 5 drivers who drive it are all loving it. I most likely would not have gotten it, IF it did not have the BT 2.1 L twin turbo diesel engine mated to the 7 speed A/T (great drive train) . NO REAL sense in getting a small CUV getting 20 mpg to 23.3 mpg PUG, when a bigger mid sized CUV, VW Touareg TDI gets 31 to 37 mpg AND mated to a 8 speed A/T.

    I do not have a clue as to how much better mpg the GLK could get IF the styling were more sleek or had better/lower coefficient of friction.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    Saw dawdling 535d on snowy highway yesterday on I-93 in Concord NH, hogging left lane. nice loooong car.
    speaking of 5-series gassers vs 5-series diesels...
    Chevrolet makes a better M5 than BMW now. In Australia. for half the price of the bmw one.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Fintail: If our infrastructure continues to decay, CUVs will certainly become more appealing. I'll never choose another car with big wheels and low profile tires, anyway.

    I think the B class wagon with the 2.1L BlueTec would be a great small car. I have only seen the one B with Canada plates. Just seemed like a nice small wagon. The guy that owned it was pretty good sized. Said it was very comfortable on the highway. So why only in an EV for US?? In the EU they have 3 different diesel options with over 50 MPG US combined. And 15k mile service schedule.


  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    That's just about perfect. Just needs sliding doors. B)
  • henrynhenryn Member Posts: 4,289
    Forget the sliding doors, does the Blonde come with it? If so, put me down for one!
    2023 Chevrolet Silverado, 2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,499
    @ruking1‌

    You put 5 people in a GLK at once? I sat in a used GLK 350 4Matic (gasser) that was open & on the lot of a local Chevy dealer (waiting for a warranty repair to get done on my Dad's Tahoe). The GLK is a strangely optioned (no sunroof & 20" wheels) 2013 with just under $32K on the odometer with an asking price of $32,990. Anyway, I sat in the GLK & played with the seat adjustments until it was right for me (5'10" 160 lbs). Then I got in the back. Whoa this thing was cramped. Good head room, but I can't see squeezing 3 full sized adults back there for any amount of time. Nice looking vehicle though. I'm sure it drives good too. If you are looking used, there are tons of GLK gassers out there compared to used blue tecs.

    Diesel is a very hard sell to the masses, even when gas is expensive. Regular, non-car people don't look at the benefits of long term ownership like so many of us do. Look how many people dumped their SUVs in droves about 10 years ago when gas prices went through the roof. All they cared about was the fact that it cost them $100 a week to drive their SUV and now $40 every 2 weeks in their new Prius. They didn't care about the thousands in depreciation they lost.

    Even for me it is a tough sell at the $30K price point. If I wanted to go back to snow tire swapping (which I don't), I'd certainly choose a Golf TDI over a Golf TSI. Give me a GTI to drive back to back with a TDI and I'd probably take a GTI. Moving up market I would probably go for an E350 Blue Tec 4Matic and not even drive the gasser E350. Reaching a bit further up from the E, I'd definitely look at the Cayenne diesel given that it is now the base model.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited January 2015
    elias said:

    Saw dawdling 535d on snowy highway yesterday on I-93 in Concord NH, hogging left lane. nice loooong car.
    speaking of 5-series gassers vs 5-series diesels...
    Chevrolet makes a better M5 than BMW now. In Australia. for half the price of the bmw one.


    I have read it is based on an OLD Cadillac platform (fully depreciated, resurrected from the grave , seeing new life as an "BMW M5 beater", competitor ! GM is also using more of its companies parts bins: Corvette engines to plastic bits. I am not sure why they also do not have more go to diesel from the stump pulling tow 'ers @ more competitive pricing to 1.4 L sippers. Just as the MB 2.1 L T TDI jumps out at me, a V8 Cummins 5.0 L (CHOICE OF TURBOS/SUPERCHARGERS) TDI'S with 350 hp? 550 # ft is monster.

    Just as VW has gone to a MLQ platform and parts bin sharing concept, Conceptually, the Golf platform is going on @ least 40 years old.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited January 2015
    Fueled by oil, agriculture sector welcomes low diesel prices

    Posted: Jan 24, 2015 6:50 AM PST
    Updated: Jan 24, 2015 4:18 PM PST
    By ROXANA HEGEMAN
    Associated Press

    http://www.njherald.com/story/27930361/fueled-by-oil-agriculture-sector-welcomes-low-diesel-prices


    Here is a "PLAN" that is ripe for being FUBAR, almost before testing.

    http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_27387446/california-considering-plan-replace-gas-tax-charge-per?source=infinite

    ..."But it is gaining momentum. This year, Oregon is beginning a test program in which 5,000 volunteers will pay 1.5 cents per mile driven, and be refunded each month what they paid under the state's 30-cent gasoline tax. Colorado and Washington state also are studying similar pilot programs."...

    It sounds almost innocuous, BUT in the context of 15,000 miles, case of AVG mpg of 24.1 and 41 mpg, taxes are $225, $187, $110. or taxation increases of a minimum of 20 % to 70 % percent !!!!!! Or just look at it as a SEPARATE stand alone tax item ! ?

    In other words, the STATES (CA state) are bent out of shape because I pay $77 LESS than the average mpg, AND less than they want me to, because they ASKED (forced in the worst case) me to !!!! ??? Keep in mind this is NOT counting the extra taxation on diesel fuel ALREADY levied.

    So those who have taken efforts to fulfill the spirit and intent of the "goals" are being further and unfairly penalized!!! ???? CA state uses mandatory road monies almost totally in the GENERAL fund !!!!!!! ????? TOTAL disingenuousness to hypocrisy comes to mind.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Did it have diplomatic plates or something? I was not aware the diesel B has been sold in Canada, but I know they've had 4cyl gassers there for 8 or 9 years now. Another interesting car we don't get, no doubt due to focus groups and cookie cutter MBA clones.

    You can even go smaller and just as practical, and get an A hatch - we kind of get one, as the controversially styled CLA:

    image

    Put a little diesel in it and see mileage soar into the 50s no doubt.
    gagrice said:



    I think the B class wagon with the 2.1L BlueTec would be a great small car. I have only seen the one B with Canada plates. Just seemed like a nice small wagon. The guy that owned it was pretty good sized. Said it was very comfortable on the highway. So why only in an EV for US?? In the EU they have 3 different diesel options with over 50 MPG US combined. And 15k mile service schedule.


  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited January 2015
    nyccarguy said:

    @ruking1‌

    You put 5 people in a GLK at once? I sat in a used GLK 350 4Matic (gasser) that was open & on the lot of a local Chevy dealer (waiting for a warranty repair to get done on my Dad's Tahoe). The GLK is a strangely optioned (no sunroof & 20" wheels) 2013 with just under $32K on the odometer with an asking price of $32,990. Anyway, I sat in the GLK & played with the seat adjustments until it was right for me (5'10" 160 lbs). Then I got in the back. Whoa this thing was cramped. Good head room, but I can't see squeezing 3 full sized adults back there for any amount of time. Nice looking vehicle though. I'm sure it drives good too. If you are looking used, there are tons of GLK gassers out there compared to used blue tecs.

    Diesel is a very hard sell to the masses, even when gas is expensive. Regular, non-car people don't look at the benefits of long term ownership like so many of us do. Look how many people dumped their SUVs in droves about 10 years ago when gas prices went through the roof. All they cared about was the fact that it cost them $100 a week to drive their SUV and now $40 every 2 weeks in their new Prius. They didn't care about the thousands in depreciation they lost.

    Even for me it is a tough sell at the $30K price point. If I wanted to go back to snow tire swapping (which I don't), I'd certainly choose a Golf TDI over a Golf TSI. Give me a GTI to drive back to back with a TDI and I'd probably take a GTI. Moving up market I would probably go for an E350 Blue Tec 4Matic and not even drive the gasser E350. Reaching a bit further up from the E, I'd definitely look at the Cayenne diesel given that it is now the base model.

    Yes and indeed to all your points !

    TMI to your observation ..."The GLK is a strangely optioned (no sunroof & 20" wheels) 2013 with just under $32K on the odometer with an asking price of $32,990."...

    Yes, my MB GLK 250 BT is sans sunroof. I did NOT want it. I' ll even go out on a limb by saying, I probably would not have gotten it, IF it had the sunroof "option" ! ? One really needs to conceptualize sunroof/sans AND the differences in ambience. Your choice will probably get OLD fast, if you do not like the one chosen.

    Also to me, lots of advantages to no sunroof.

    1, better ambience over sunroof option (for me) i.e., less visual fatigue
    2. no $ premium
    3. more head room
    4. less to go wrong
    5. less to maintain
    6. warmer/cooler
    7. less to break
    8. less depreciation
    9. less distraction


    I also think the 20 in and 19 in (oem) tire sizes are a tad ODD. They certainly have VERY limited tire options in the oem 19 in and 235/
    51.

    20 in (to me) rim/tire combinations are more the looks to status crowd/s.
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,251
    nyccarguy said:
    @ruking1‌ You put 5 people in a GLK at once? I sat in a used GLK 350 4Matic (gasser) that was open & on the lot of a local Chevy dealer (waiting for a warranty repair to get done on my Dad's Tahoe). The GLK is a strangely optioned (no sunroof & 20" wheels) 2013 with just under $32K on the odometer with an asking price of $32,990. Anyway, I sat in the GLK & played with the seat adjustments until it was right for me (5'10" 160 lbs). Then I got in the back. Whoa this thing was cramped. Good head room, but I can't see squeezing 3 full sized adults back there for any amount of time. Nice looking vehicle though. I'm sure it drives good too. If you are looking used, there are tons of GLK gassers out there compared to used blue tecs. Diesel is a very hard sell to the masses, even when gas is expensive. Regular, non-car people don't look at the benefits of long term ownership like so many of us do. Look how many people dumped their SUVs in droves about 10 years ago when gas prices went through the roof. All they cared about was the fact that it cost them $100 a week to drive their SUV and now $40 every 2 weeks in their new Prius. They didn't care about the thousands in depreciation they lost. Even for me it is a tough sell at the $30K price point. If I wanted to go back to snow tire swapping (which I don't), I'd certainly choose a Golf TDI over a Golf TSI. Give me a GTI to drive back to back with a TDI and I'd probably take a GTI. Moving up market I would probably go for an E350 Blue Tec 4Matic and not even drive the gasser E350. Reaching a bit further up from the E, I'd definitely look at the Cayenne diesel given that it is now the base model.
    Which is why I'm hoping the Golf GTD comes to the U.S. 185 hp, good handling and mpg better than the GTI

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  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited January 2015
    stever said:

    There's a new Accord Hybrid owner wondering about other's experiences today because he's not getting his 50mpg EPA. I don't know if he even has used one tank of gas yet. The neighbors across the street just got one but I forgot to ask about their mpg when the mom came over with her kids to sell us some Girl Scout cookies (bless her. :) )

    Speaking of gas, just filled up for $1.56 at the Bradley. They were out of Premium or maybe they don't bother selling it. Or maybe the one pump I used was broken - the little sign looked like it had been on the pump for a good while. No diesel either.

    The Valero catty-corner across the street was selling regular for $1.69 and diesel for $2.77. Drive another mile or two toward the college and regular is $1.89.

    Not sure I would have driven the extra couple of miles to save the $2 on the tank but I was down in the area getting some shawarmas. Walked over to the Restore store in the same strip mall and passed one of those MB wagons - don't ask me which one, it was older though. Kind of appealing. The next rig I noticed, naturally, was an idling diesel pickup, rattling and belching away, parked so close to the wall of the store we had to walk behind him and through his fumes.

    There is not a THING wrong with Honda Accord hybrids close to, @, or EXCEEDING EPA 50 (C/ 45 H- my sic) mpg. However posting this on a diesel thread, you throw out a SLOW softball pitch in a major league baseball pitched game . :p

    DIESEL mpg can easily beat both gasser AND more expensive gasser hybrid LIKE- models. To wit, a 12 VW Passat TDI EPA 31 C / 43 H mpg (Honda Accord and H A hybrid competitor) driven by the Taylor's/Gerdes posted 84+ mpg/77 mpg. ala, driven like with an egg between throttle and right foot.

    On the OTHER side/s of the range/s, DIESELS STILL post better mpg ! ?

    That being said, the H A hybrid owner should both understand and be WILLING and even more important to DO what a hybrid owner has to do to OPTIMIZE its mpg. In the H A H's case City mpg is rated higher than Highway mpg.

    So for example, while I understand the hybrid Accord has the capability to structurally get better mpg than a gasser Accord, it is wrong headed to expect automatic better mpg to be conferred and sets up better conditions for disappointment.

    Purely on a DIESEL note, it might be also too bad Honda does not offer its ( like model Accord) TDI on US markets.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,499
    @Michaell‌

    For what VW would charge for a GTD, I'd go for a Golf R (S3 Lite)

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

This discussion has been closed.