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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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But, will be curious how they price it. Anything over $30k to start will probably price folks out.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
This 2012 Business Week story may partly explain why the Europeans have been leading the Japanese in diesel car production:
"Thirteen years ago, Tokyo’s governor destroyed Japanese interest in diesel vehicles by banning all but those that installed exhaust fume purifiers from roads in the nation’s largest city. Now the cars are making a comeback as manufacturers adopt technology that make them more eco-friendly."
So for example, LA LA LAND has THE MOST hybrids !!! So IF LA LA land's air quality is the bell weather, even they say their air quality is FAR FAR WORSE !!!!!! /hm... That is hardly a good result or advertisement for what hybrids were supposed to do, AND over 12 MY's of ever increasing hybrids. !! ???
OK ! OK! I know magical pollutive powers are attributed to my 2003 Jetta TDI with 187,000 miles, i.e.., can single handedly cause CA state's diesel pollution !!!
On a DIESEL note, ( across 4 diesels AND different sizes 1.9 T L, 2.0 T L, 2.1 TT L, 3.0 T L,) The (MB GLK 250 BT's) EPA's 24 C / 33 H are easily exceeded. You all know how HARD I try !!
I find that interesting from the above ruking article. When I buy red dye diesel here for my tractor, it is only a dime less. So is the state ripping us off or the dealer? Looks to me like a dealer rip-off. Problem I can take my five gallon can and buy ULSD from Shell down the hill for 50 cents less than the 76 station charges for red dye diesel. I will question him next time I stop in there. I buy so little diesel for the Kubota. Five gallons easy lasts a year or more. I dump in that treatment so it does not spoil.
The latest 1% or less INCREASE in oil production shows that diesel pricing can be WAY cheaper ALSO. It is also probably more than obvious that its use and pricing can be used aa local to world wide CONTROL mechanisms.
To me, ONE real lesson, hidden in ( the articles) plain sight: IF RUG/PUG is CHEAPER to SO much cheaper, it should be a no brainer to swap out (red dye) diesel for (red dye) RUG/PUG use. OR the snap shot should really be ALREADY some to most CONVERTED to RUG/PUG !!! ???
The short term goal would be getting DOWN the overall cost (of diesel) from 4.7% of the food dollar to 3.7% After all, FARMERS (rest of the food chain) have normally a difficult time even making .... profits ????? Even if one doesn't give a RIP about farmers (less than 2% of the US population of 317 M) , what about massive price increases @ the grocery store does ONE like ?????
Well guy's and girls, it isn't only Toyota that is flying the CA COOP ??? LOADS of others "scrambling" to get out ! ?
..."California has a way of living up to the worst regulatory expectations,"... ..."prices in California are 66% higher than in other parts of the West"...
http://www.wsj.com/articles/californias-scrambled-eggs-1422232494?mod=hp_opinion
Hey, there's a storm in one corner of the country. You know what that means.
Diesel Jumps to One-Week High as Snowstorm May Boost Demand (Bloomberg)
Edmunds has a way to take out your frustrations over fuel prices.
On the (LEFT) CA Coast, the predictably CERTAIN global "ice age" is almost no where near this CA SNOW ski resort. The SF, CA BAY sea levels are @ historic LOWS !!!!! We of course by now should have been UNDER massive depths of WATER !!! Sierra snow falls should have been and should NOW be A--H--- DEEP to a tall giraffe! Instead, I can see ANTS.
@ 6,225 ft ft (Lake Tahoe's altitude) there is ZERO snow build up on the ground !!
Instead, the lands are increasing being LIBERATED OF water !! ???
Actually the spin off is much LESS energy is consumed,albeit @ higher prices !!!! ?????
More on point, WE are hoping ULSD $$ PRICES CRASH further !
https://autos.yahoo.com/news/2015-ram-1500-ecodiesel-hfes-24-mpg-fuel-133721785.html
SLOW news diesel day: local / resort
ULSD $2.99 / $2.65
RUG $2.45 / $2.15
MC $2.55 / $2.25
PUG $2.65 / $2.35
You hit that one out of the park. Eggs went up over $1 per dozen on the first of January. The PETA Pukes and Eco Nuts worry more about livestock than they do children.
Thankfully diesel is a buck and a half less now.
ULSD $2.19 / $2.13
RUG $2.19 / $1.99
MC $2.31 / $2.09
PUG $2.25 / $2.19
Similar to the Holden Monaro/GTO, the car which saved GM, as auto industry historians know...
as for the Corvette engine, gosh, those are terrible, who would want one?!
Show me a high performance diesel car in USA. with manual shift. and i'll try it.
How about a Passat TDI-CUP GTD R edition.
hybrids with manual shift are interesting too. honda insight and CR-Z offer manual shift.
clearly RUG is the winning passenger vehicle fuel until next battles of WW4 are won , reportedly all the enemy income from oil will drop to zero when RUG price drops to 1.63 in USA. we are almost there...
there is big extra cash in the economy in USA thanks to low RUG prices. less so from the diesel passenger vehicle drivers!
As for the GASSERS - Corvette engine..., ask GM (for other than the rhetorical answer). Grill the CEO for why they now bet significant portions of the farm on TERRIBLE products (or really, ... perhaps they have never really changed), like the Corvette engine, ... cited.
TMI and off topic, I have read it started off life (60 years ago?) as a $84. V8 GASSER engine. But then, a GM .75 cent ignition key product got FUBAR'ed beyond FUBAR.
I do think it smart as well as TELLING Chevrolet used an old retired Cadillac platform to spike up one of their product lines. My only nexus here is a theoretical TDI, like model. As for the Holden G8/GTO going forward ? YOUR guess is as good as anyone elses'.
GM shows one diesel CAR product (US). They have had the (light truck/s) V8 turbo diesel/s for a longer time. Indeed GM's DIESEL CAR efforts MAY have soured the car DIESEL market, and for over a biblical generation, even as they just recently got back into the diesel market.
I am glad you agree that RUG/PUG is the majority US product. (95%), You have listened to what I have posted, probably more than once: to show CONTEXT. I take absolutely no credit in affecting/effecting those ratio's. Anecdotally, (mine gasser/diesel) is @ 50%/50%.
With diesel cars @ less than 2.5% of PVF, you have a flare for the obvious about where the extra disposable cash pile is /.... bigger. But, keep it up, you are on a row !!
So IF your underlying assumption is US PVF car diesels should be at 51% to 49%, or if you are trying to say that I am saying that, math sez you are WAY off. But you knew that.
I am perfectly fine with less than 2.5% diesel PVF cars. The markets can, will, continue to take care of themselves, given strategic policies, AND folks use of THEIR nickels.
. ..."GM shows one diesel CAR product (US). "...
I have also heard the OPINION, the Cruse TDI is built FAR better than the gasser Cruze !! ??? IF true, this of course could/would account for a (unknown) portion of the so called diesel premium.
OFF TOPIC:
To me, the DOWN side of a CRUSE GASSER would be: why isn't the gasser Cruse built as well as the DIESEL ?? If noticeable, I would pass.
Since they took it from the "bench" inventory, etc., THEN the remaining engineering task/s would be making it ready for US regulators/markets. (dumb down, waste monies, etc.)
http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?stnid=9414290
RE: Disappointing diesel review. Car and Driver finds the 328d a rather noisy buzzy contraption.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-bmw-328d-diesel-wagon-long-term-test-review
So truly, it is not a disagreement with ME !!
It is more like a case of living in New Orleans (BELOW SEA Level). So when water seeks it own level (aka SEA LEVEL) folks are SHOCKED with damage to buildings LOWER than sea level.
Again, the funny line was in the article?
..." Chalk up another hash in the column labeled “Reasons Never to Buy a BMW Out of Warranty.” "...
For ALL of my driving and car buying life, I have resisted the plunge. Forewarned is forearmed? So thanks for the reminder ? !
Fuelly.com shows gassers to get 26.7 mpg vs 35? mpg for its diesel, for app 31% better fuel mileage. However, I guess the first guide is the author of the articles quote?
Not sure who they disagree with? I think 9 inches over 100 years is livable. Where the predictions of 20-30 foot over the next 100 years are mostly scare tactics.
As for BMW, there are things I like about them. I don't see them as better than Mercedes. I have not driven their 4 cylinder diesel. I don't imagine it is as refined as Mercedes. Yet BMW beat MB last for US sales, barely. Neither company say much about diesel sales. Both small potatoes compared the VW/Audi World wide.
Even 20 feet would totally submerge London. That would be too bad. I like London.
RE: Diesels --I just don't get it. America makes some of the most rugged, durable, powerful diesels in the world and we have to look to rather cranky German cars to get what some of us want in a car?
Here is an interesting "efficiency" article, albeit TMI.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/why-0-5-liter-cylinders-will-soon-dominate-automotive-engine-design/
I was going by what Al Gore said: Everyone knows he is full of Hot Air. Not to mention he wants to destroy the auto industry.
In “The Inconvenient Truth,” the country’s foremost doomsayer warned that the world’s sea levels would rise 20 feet as a result of the polar ice melting.
The New York Times reports:
IPCC rejects Al Gore sea-level rise hysteria — worst-case 3 feet, not 20 feet
At the other extreme, the report considers a scenario in which emissions, which have soared in recent years, continue at a runaway pace. Under those conditions, sea level could be expected to rise at least 21 inches by 2100 and might rise a bit more than three feet, the draft report said.
USLD $ 2.89
RUG $ 2.39
MG $ 2.49
PUG $ 2.59
OFF TOPIC and TMI (probably)
New (2nd set) tires on the 09 Jetta TDI are past the (GENTLE) break in phase. I hope to beat 89,000 miles (actually 88,970 on the poorly rated oem set), on this set, Continental Pure Contact H rated.
From an intellectual point of view, I am having a hard time getting used to going to a 5,000 miles rotation cycle from 10,000 miles and skipping (one to three) rotations. (5 to 8 rotations vs 18) However, it seems to really cut back rubber consumption on the 12 VW Touareg TDI, as good as that was on the oem tires AND 10,000 miles rotations!! SO I guess I need to GET with the program. So IF I get 90,000 miles (more is better obviously) that would put cost per mile driven: tires @ .00594 cents. (tad more than half of 1 cent per mile) The oem set (retail) posts .00784 cents pmd tires or 32 % MORE.
The exterior of the 12 VW Touareg TDI got DETAILED, after 2 years and app 52,000 miles (wgood Zaino polish base coats applied when new). Thank heavens, (going up to the snow (and what that all means) and every so often getting behind salt trucks and snow plows) this thing still looks like it came off the showroom floor. (no spider webs, scratches, etc.)
I detailed the 09 VW Jetta TDI's HPFP issue with VW A stepping up for the out of warranty scenario. The 12 VW Touareg TDI has been flawless. Now I am looking @ the dirt and salt caked MB 250 BT.... ah...oh well.
I just paid $2.05 (not taxed) per gallon for 200 gallons of #2 home heating oil.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I don't think it is too much of a reach to put the $2.89 (taxed FED/STATE/state sales tax) per gal price or .84 cents MORE due to mostly TAXATION = 41% (or app)
Oil Watch
Nymex crude, dollars per barrel
$ 44.24
Jan 28, 2015 3:54 pm LT
WSJ
I don't know the ppm sulfur. I can call & find out tomorrow. Yes it will get delivered straight to the oil tank in my basement.
@gagrice
I've actually only lived here in Connecticut since July of 2010 and am relatively new to the home heating oil "game," learning as I go. Yes, the $2.05 per gallon is the cheapest I've paid for #2 since we've moved here. The oil companies try to get you to "lock in" for a specified amount of time (usually 1 year). Then they have you on automatic delivery (based on their estimation of your usage) and the spread the bill out over an 11 month period so this way you get an even monthly bill. The oil company sends a statement after the 11th month to see what the balance or credit is. the thing is, that there is never a credit. They sneak in deliveries during the summer months when you don't want an oil delivery.
The guy I bought the house from used to lock in every August when the prices were historically at their lowest (with the same company, Standard Oil no less). I did this the 1st year & came out ahead locking in at $2.59 per gallon. After I locked in, prices went up & stayed up all the way through my contract. Then years 2 & 3, I thought the prices were too high to lock in. I would just call when I was starting to run low. Minimum delivery is 100 gallons usually, but there is a price break at 150 & 200 gallons. I get 200 gallons at a time.
Sorry to bore the board with my oil buying strategy.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Does anyone here use Cetane booster? Does it actually help the mileage?
I actually experienced much BETTER mpg during new tire break in. !! ??? Again, the dynamics are NOT rocket science. The clue was in the post, " GENTLE" break in.
Much past this is off topic and TMI. I will go there ONLY if folks find it of diesel nexus and/or general interest or both. The truth is: IF I had done a few things differently, i.e. BETTER, (safe) and LONGER wear could have been the result.
UPDATE:
I used the tire depth gauge to measure two TDI's tire wear 12 VW T TDI is @ 20,000 miles per 1/32nd in of wear. The MB GLK 250 BT is @ 16,500 miles per 1/32nd in (RUNFLATS?????)
I suppose you could air them up to 80 psi.
Looks like Ford recommends cetane booster; maybe you should ask VW customer service.
Group hopes to ban older diesel trucks (portlandtribune.com)
"Ever since California moved to phase out the use of older diesel vehicles and off-road commercial rigs there, many have found their way into Oregon — freight trucks, school buses and bulldozers — and some fear those will grow more numerous as more of California’s rolling deadlines take effect."
New 'clean' diesels not associated with lung cancer risks (autoblog.com)
It's time for Cash for Old Diesel Clunkers.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Some of this is TOTALLY misguided, even @ the same time, it is totally understandable.
OVER LSD (500 ppm) has not been on the market for diesel trucks and for a VERY long time ! So IF Oregon now sells OVER LSD, SHAME on em ???? However, I do not believe that IS the case.
LSD (500 ppm 49 states, 140 ppm CA) HAD been the standard before the 2006 mandatory (30 ppm) ULSD standard !!
Indeed, it is my understanding "OLDER. LARGER" diesel trucks are required/mandated to use ULSD. This fact alone removes 94 to 98% of the emissions potential over just LSD!!!
The facts belie that Toyota Prius are REQUIRED to use FAR dirtier fuel than older, larger diesel trucks !!!
Again to beat a dead horse, 15 ppm diesel (nominally delivered @ 5 to 10 ppm) l vs RUG/PUG 30 ppm up to 90 ppm RUG.
So LAWFUL STANDARDS Prius fuel, RUG can be 2 x's DIRTIER than ULSD !!! In PRACTICE, it can be 6 times to 18 TIMES dirtier.
Be that as it may, how about the 15 VW GOLF GTD variant, aka TDI, WAGON, AWD, .... manual/DSG, ?????
http://carbuying.jalopnik.com/the-golf-gtd-variant-is-the-jaloptastic-wagon-youve-bee-1682507513
This will be interesting IF the diesel 2018/2019 VW Phaeton comes to US markets, aka sold @ a $32,000 loss ???
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/01/28/vw-phaeton-coming-despite-cost-cutting-big-losses/
TMI I think the change is the Jetta is going BACK to being a more contented iteration.The BIG change which for most folks will be seamless and almost totally opaque is the new platform.
I am not sure what I would replace either Jetta with. But @ 90,000/187,000 miles I am looking for 240,000 miles each, before looking for new ones.
But then, IF CA enacts the per mile tax, even more. The third tune up or 360,000 miles each. (why encourage or reward them for first promising earmarked road repairs monies will be used only for roads? Then they UN earmarked them, and charging you again for monies earmarked. Who is to say those extra monies will not be used AGAIN like the first earmarked monies?
! It would encourage me to:
1. stop buying new cars
2. stop buying used cars
3. keeping what I already have longer.
4. getting rid of any not needed
5. do with less, even IF needed
6. buying a car ONLY if I can make it tax deductible (like employer reimbursement to IRS 179 rules)
So while they encourage car pooling ( which they know not many folks actually do,) like 3 drivers in a 09 Jetta TDI with 41 mpg and effectively 123 mpg, they HATE it on the per mile driven revenue side AND 1 car vs three cars on the road , aka car poolers are TARGETS.
So for want of a possible 1.5 cent tax on 15,000 commute miles, CA/FED will forgo 9% taxation on new cars on a more frequent cycle!! It works for me ! How did it work for the auto CRASH in 2008/2009 when yearly sales were 40% LESS?
I compared a 2015 VW Jetta 1.8T SE w/ Connectivity Package & Lighting Package to a 2015 VW Jetta TDI SE w/ Connectivity Package using my driving parameters, edmunds Incentives & Rebates, and my calculator. Diesel comes out ahead, even though the fuel is more expensive. Take into account that I drive 20,000 miles per year. Please correct me if I'm wrong (anybody):
2015 Jetta 1.8T SE w/ Connectivity & Lighting
MSRP: $24,140
Invoice: $23,109
Incentives: 1.9% APR for 60 months
EPA Estimates: 25 City/37 Highway (let's say I can average 30 mpg)
RUG priced at $2.33/gal
Driving 400 miles per week (for 50 weeks, I get 2 weeks vacation), I would use 13.33 gallons of RUG per week = 666.5 gallons
666.5 gallons * $2.33/gallon (I know this will vary, but just using today's prices) = $1,552.95 worth of RUG per year
2015 Jetta TDI w/ Connectivity
MSRP: $25,995
Invoice: $24,988
Incentives: 1.9% APR for 60 months
$2,500 dealer cash
Selling Price: $22,488
EPA Estimates: 31 City/46 Highway (let's say I can average 39 mpg)
ULSD priced at $3.59/gal
Driving 400 miles per week (for 50 weeks), I would use 10.26 gallons of ULSD per week = 513 gallons
513 gallons * 3.59/gallon (today's price, same gas station) = $1,841.61 worth or ULSD per year
The gasser costs $621 more up front
The diesel uses $288.66 more in fuel during the 1st year
Diesel advantage after year 1 = $332.34
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
the TDI lease deal is showing as $249/$2k.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
No brainer here @ 31% greater price of ULSD here. (PAR)
It goes also to what I have been saying all along, USE MORE fuel (like model) while professing to use LESS. The corollary: get penalized for ACTUALLY using LESS !!!
But I think on the 4,900 # (SUV/CUV) that USED to get 15 mpg GAS can now get 31 to 35 mpg ULSD is a HUGE step forward, given gassers can not STILL do it, and the fact that 75% of the PVF are STILL LARGE CARS to light trucks. .
Perhaps a better way to see it is: given the AVERAGE mpg @ 24.1, the VW Touareg TDI can get 31 to 35 mpg.
Sidebar: even with (gasser) HYBRID, Highlander does not get much more than the AVG.
So for example the economics lets me keep a 94 TLC for 21 years and 30 years will not be a stretch. Think of 30 years of NO monthly (360 mo) car payments !!! ???
Real slow diesel news day !
MB GLK 250 BT filled 12.3 gals $2.99 ULSD for 484 miles, aka .076 cents per mile driven. So for PUG 2.49 23.4 mpg ( MB GLK 350 GASSER, fuelly.com) would be .1056 cents. or 39% MORE.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I did just that. The answer was VW does not recommend any kind of additive. I will check with my local dealer and ask them.
VW technical data has consistently NOT recommended any kind of additive.
I also have read that FORD/GM/RAM are fine with B20 (aka 20% biodiesel for those unfamiliar). VW is barely ok with B5.
TMI and WAY off topic is we have a B20 Chevron close by ( metro/urban area)