Because of the capital that it takes to develop any new products or any new technology's, everybody's scared to figurative to literal death investing into the wrong technology. Just look at how much vilification the diesel gets, just for trying to lessen & BALANCE gas use! Or how do you get off Using gas when both the gas and gas hybrid are still ...gas ???
You and I are both familiar with Altamont Passes, CA Wind Farm! Most folks don't know this, but when you go by, (& we do a lot) you're staring at a graveyard . The majority of those turbine generators don't even move. They are considered antiquated, out of date and dangerous . Yet absolutely none of it is rocket science !? Years ago the thing it has going for it ( investment wise) was that you could take some tax credits and tax write off's . I passed@ that time. It looked deficient then.Now that it is a bone yard, when it should be producing income...@ high prices per kWh, it is dead!!! Even environmental [non-permissible content removed]/Cheer leaders hate it.
While I have absolutely no ill wishes toward EV, in my 41 years experience, EV's dead in the water. EV populations are not even measurable % wise. 291,332/269.3 M =.001082%
"No software constituting an improper defeat device as defined in law is installed in vehicles with EA288 EU5 as well as EU6-engines in the European Union. Consequently, new vehicles of the Volkswagen Group offered within the European Union with those engines comply with legal requirements and environmental standards."
The clarion call charging forward: SELL more diesels ! The fiasco has never been a rally point for getting RID of diesels. Getting rid of PVF diesels is about as absurd as getting rid of PVF GASSERS!
For anyone who doubts either assertion, run your own numbers! So for example, do you think yearly sales are going up or down? Is the PVF up or down from the NHTSA 2013 figures?
If there's anybody that doubts the importance of vehicle sales to the American economy, harken back to ancient history, circa 2009. The yearly car sales was projected to hit 10.5 M ! In that years context, that was considered a pre-depression announcement ! F/F to 2015 projected @ 17.5 M, & hopefully above, makes it 67% more! So , it begs the question would we really like it to go back to 40% or less sales ?
Some folks may have taken umbrage with the fact IRS offered a $1,200 tax credit for buying (specifically) a 2009 VW Jetta TDI. One benefit was it made the diesel WAY cheaper than the gasser. In the context yr, many MORE advantages were given to gassers than diesels. In case the real question is not hitting between the eyes, WHO( relatively) was buying at that time?
I don't see gasoline and diesel cars as a separate category of technology, and I suspect the general buying public doesn't either. The diesel engine is not so unconventional or unfamiliar to be regarded as anything new or "21st century" or "hi-tech". Hybrids and EVs and Hydrogen cars, as well as autonomous cars, are definitely perceived as having to do with the "future".
If I were marketing diesel cars in America I would present them to be as normal as possible---like a gasoline engine that does some things better--you know, like Mazda did with the rotary or Saab did with turbos.
I don't see gasoline and diesel cars as a separate category of technology, and I suspect the general buying public doesn't either. The diesel engine is not so unconventional or unfamiliar to be regarded as anything new or "21st century" or "hi-tech". Hybrids and EVs and Hydrogen cars, as well as autonomous cars, are definitely perceived as having to do with the "future".
If I were marketing diesel cars in America I would present them to be as normal as possible---like a gasoline engine that does some things better--you know, like Mazda did with the rotary or Saab did with turbos.
You probably have heard me say two different phrases, slow news diesel day and SOS/DD. That is exactly the concept of your last paragraph, from a consumer's point of view.
So for example, it is blatantly obvious that nobody cares that I get 35 in a (like model,MB GLK 250 BT/ diesel versus GLK350) 22 mpg in a gas. (Gasser premium of $500 MSRP) or use app 3,090 gal LESS over 12 yrs/180,000 miles.(avg yr 15,000 miles, age, miles) So if most folks like to spend more,(app $9,000 more) and use far more fuel, why should I be upset about that?
There is nothing sacred about 37 mph, 35 mpg, 22 mpg.
Well it does beg the question, which is the whole "like model" point: how much can a DIESEL Mazda 3 post? For that matter a diesel Prius. You nor I, really don't know, for obvious reasons?
So truly, if you want to play that game, the only thing TO get is a like model DIESEL. That is probably one major point why diesel is vilified! The real game is to use more fuel while professing to use less, cost more, while professing efforts to cost less.
I have no problem with diesels that meet the regs. I have a big problem with diesels (or gassers, or any vehicle) that cheats the regs.
And there are WAY more gassers, volume + %'s that cheat & " cheat" the regulations. Logic dictates fixing the BIG problems before the small, piddle. Hysteria and chicken littling wants to blow the nit of a grain of sand into an asteroid heading to earth on an Armageddon collision course, with no Bruce Willis.
Diesels aren't being vilified. Most Americans are just apathetic towards them.
If your premise is true, then the smartest thing that EPA/CARB can do is to EXEMPT those minimal VW 425,000 diesel cars (/269.3 M or) .0011508 % of the PVF. The owners committed no infraction.
Diesels aren't being vilified. Most Americans are just apathetic towards them.
If your premise is true, then the smartest thing that EPA/CARB can do is to EXEMPT those minimal 425,000 diesel cars/269.3 M or .0011508 % of the PVF. The owners committed no infraction.
I fully agree with. There is no need to make the buyers. the scape goat . Why put the buyers through mental torture and stress of recall and re-calibration. Just fine the VW and exempt the already sold cars. Its a very logical decision . There are many different equipment which pollute more then these TDIs , like the thousands of big-rig semi !!
I have no problem with diesels that meet the regs. I have a big problem with diesels (or gassers, or any vehicle) that cheats the regs.
And, that's really the issue. If they have the defeat device, then there's a problem. If they don't, and they meet the lab test requirements, then they're good to go. It doesn't matter whether tailpipe emissions go up or down while out on the road; if they meet the reg without cheating, then they meet the reg.
IF the agencies have an issue with current offerings' "real-world" emissions, then they need to consider changing their regulations going forward.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
The regs have to be met. If the owner can't meet them because of the automaker, then the owner has a beef with the automaker. Exempting the cars just let's VW off the hook. No way.
Diesels aren't being vilified. Most Americans are just apathetic towards them.
If your premise is true, then the smartest thing that EPA/CARB can do is to EXEMPT those minimal 425,000 diesel cars/269.3 M or .0011508 % of the PVF. The owners committed no infraction.
The real issue is the good news and bad news is in the OBD & software updates. This will open up a whole new can of worms, other than diesel.
So like most folks don't know that you can burn alternative fuels like: 100% ethanol, e85, e10, methanol, natural gas, diesel, biodiesel, EV, battery, hybrids, etc.
So again if a RUG/PUG is 95 to 97%, would it be better or worse with say each were @ 10% of the PVF? Do you think the fuel costs would go up or down ?
The regs have to be met. If the owner can't meet them because of the automaker, then the owner has a beef with the automaker. Exempting the cars just let's VW off the hook. No way.
Diesels aren't being vilified. Most Americans are just apathetic towards them.
If your premise is true, then the smartest thing that EPA/CARB can do is to EXEMPT those minimal 425,000 diesel cars/269.3 M or .0011508 % of the PVF. The owners committed no infraction.
The regs have to be met. If the owner can't meet them because of the automaker, then the owner has a beef with the automaker. Exempting the cars just let's VW off the hook. No way.
Diesels aren't being vilified. Most Americans are just apathetic towards them.
If your premise is true, then the smartest thing that EPA/CARB can do is to EXEMPT those minimal 425,000 diesel cars/269.3 M or .0011508 % of the PVF. The owners committed no infraction.
I am sure even you know this can never be true. The owners did not go out to cheat the regs when they bought these cars. They have as much beef with the EPA as with the VW EPA allowed these cars to be passed and sold to the public.
Class action lawsuits will be filed against the EPA for defrauding the consumers by "allowing " the VW to cheat the consumers.
Now how do you like my argument which I have turned your argument on its head ????
I think you are confusing your sense of justice with what actually happens in the legal system. Do you really expect any consumer to get any kind of relief by suing the United States government? Really?
And what is the point of that fruitless enterprise? Wouldn't it be so much easier for the consumer to be made right by the culprit, which is obviously VW.
I know hating the government is fashionable right now, but let's be practical and address the problem that VW diesel owners have, which is not a political problem---it's a checkbook balance problem.
Well there were a few articles indicating that CARB wants to now lock the stables after the horses escaped. CARB wants to deny registration, IF CA owners do not comply with the recall. No other states would demand this. This is a form of eminent domain on a title, which would only be exercised because of CARBS fraud, gross incompetence, willful negligence, etc. @ the very least it requires market value, and justly, penalties and punitive & other damages. So yeah, let's start off with $37,000 for my 2009.
Hate the government? No! But it's not right that the government agencies like EPA/CARB be politicized and weaponized, and the taking due to an owners purchase of a lawful product, certified by the taking agency.
Escalate the discussion much? VW screwed up, they defrauded their customers, the cars should be brought into compliance and the purchasers compensated by VW for any loss in mpgs or performance. Not rocket science.
What kind of Justice system penalizes the consumers who have to neuter their vehicles because the EPA [non-permissible content removed] up in their duty to conduct proper assessment of the emissions and got defrauded by the VW ?
Why does EPA have no skin of their teeth in this fiasco and consumers need to fight with the VW ?
EPA failed in its duty to protect the consumers whatever people may say otherwise on this thread.
Escalate the discussion much? VW screwed up, they defrauded their customers, the cars should be brought into compliance and the purchasers compensated by VW for any loss in mpgs or performance. Not rocket science.
$ 37,000 is a good starting point? IF they force compliance?
So the police get sued every time a crime is committed? When has that EVER happened. Nothing 'socialist' going on here.
Just exempt the existing owners from compliance as it was not their fault that VW fooled the EPA. Is that so difficult to understand ? EPA can screw VW as much as they want but leave the buyers alone Police dont get sued because the Government does not penalze the victim like the car owners .
So the police get sued every time a crime is committed? When has that EVER happened. Nothing 'socialist' going on here.
The articles actually have been posted on this website. So if you didn't read them take a look. If you have read them, the above take is a misrepresentation.
Cancel the Iranian deal? Geez everybody & their brothers wants to deal with / do bit niss wid Iran. Oh and would we rather all of the German auto plants go to now Mexico or where ever, instead of parts of the US ? WE don't even put domestic auto plants in ! !!
VW could walk out of USA and start business with Iran and built plants there. So could most other German industries. Obama can only watch impotently . German labor unions (IG Metal) are as strong as the UAW here and will not roll over and watch Obama rob their livelihood.
If the USA becomes more of a drain than it is worth, I see VW expanding their ties with Russia. They could probably sell more VWs there than here. They are already the biggest in China. The facts are the US is a diminishing market. A welfare state close to bankruptcy. The auto sales bubble could burst like the home sales. Subprime lending on cars can backfire in a big way.
You know that Russia is an economic catastrophe right now, yes? I wouldn't want to put my eggs in that basket. There's been a virtual humanitarian crisis there for some time, the worst parts of the US pale in comparison. The US is still a vital and necessary market, and that won't shift in any of our lifetimes.
Subprime auto loans have little chance of causing any meaningful economic impact.
If the USA becomes more of a drain than it is worth, I see VW expanding their ties with Russia. They could probably sell more VWs there than here. They are already the biggest in China. The facts are the US is a diminishing market. A welfare state close to bankruptcy. The auto sales bubble could burst like the home sales. Subprime lending on cars can backfire in a big way.
Essentially what I think it means: where can VW efficiently sell its US market share to targets of 450,000 to 800,000 units? (above and beyond what they're already doing worldwide,) IF US markets are hostile. VW has defined these numbers needed to top world wide first place Toyota. If either and/or both will let that happen, those places are where VW will concentrate.
So for example, given US projected 2015 17.5 million in yearly sales, 2.5% of US market share, will be 437,500 units, 2015 MY. Two posters linked articles indicating VW offering up app 2x industry avg (to $4,600) incentives to sell EACH remaining unit. So products, that were screaming buys, are now even better! If I were in the market, what's not to like ?
So, (going forward) IF the US markets don't see fit to buy more of those products @ far less (-minus $4,600, etc.,) the question becomes : why not sell the same product's in someplace else not having to offer those high incentives?
Actually in a socialist country you are more likely to get government compensation. I think you turned that shot on yourself. But I can tell you what might happen if say the EPA were put under intense political pressure:
1. Someone high up in the EPA would be selected as scapegoat, and resign (with full benefits I might add)
2. The government will appoint a new "tough" head of EPA who will avow in a press conference that the EPA will in the future make sure consumers are not treated this way, and he/she will apologize for the incident.
3. Life will go on as usual.
Like Texases says, the pragmatic and obvious (to me anyway) solution is to have VW make it right with its customers. The EPA should not under any circumstance open up a Pandora's box of exempting certain "victims", because then everybody will try to jump on board in the future.
The rules are the rules and should apply across the board. The rules can certainly be changed, but then again, they should apply to everybody.
Yep, and the way the laws are written, one can NOT be FORCED to make (the EPA) recalls. Of course,some bureaucratic gobbledygook will be mentioned : trying to aggressively make sure that the recalls are implemented. Then life will go on. It is well known in the auto industry that large percentages of people, who own cars don't get any to all recalls done. So for example on resale any new owner can easily get whatever recalls done as he/she/ etc., wishes. So SOS/DD. Things are right as rain.
But really in five years who's going to care than an 11-year-old model has 100% or less recall compliance?
Didn't someone (me?) post a link a while back saying that California could refuse to register a car with an outstanding emissions recall?
Seems like I've also read that the recall completion rate for all recalls was something like 20% and that Congress was pressuring the NHTSA to come up with some way to get that number up. Chrysler was offering gift cards for one recall to encourage people to visit the dealer.
(and if you ask ten people in here to define "socialism" you're likely to get fourteen different answers, ranging from communism to Bernieism).
Didn't someone (me?) post a link a while back saying that California could refuse to register a car with an outstanding emissions recall?
Seems like I've also read that the recall completion rate for all recalls was something like 20% and that Congress was pressuring the NHTSA to come up with some way to get that number up. Chrysler was offering gift cards for one recall to encourage people to visit the dealer.
(and if you as ten people in here to define "socialism" you're likely to get fourteen different answers, ranging from communism to Bernieism).
I am making your cases?!!
Best socialist system in the world is the US military! Any other ones you can point to are probably wannabe's
Socialism is a very wide spectrum of meanings. Medicare might be considered "socialism", as would...duh...Social Security....but so might an automaker's CEO's Roth-IRA retirement fund. I don't expect any of those benefits would be voluntarily renounced by most Americans on the principle of being anti-american.
Socialism is a very wide spectrum of meanings. Medicare might be considered "socialism", as would...duh...Social Security....but so might an automaker's CEO's Roth-IRA retirement fund. I don't expect any of those benefits would be voluntarily renounced by most Americans on the principle of being anti-american.
There's a lot of truth there. WAY off topic some" local retirements" are jaw dropping?! We had one Fire Chief that was caught scamming the system, for which he was not prosecuted for, forced to retire " in humiliation " at about $455,000 per year. Through some lawful scenarios, he was able to take another fire chief's position, while drawing full pay & allowances. I am unsure whether his new job allows them to pad the $455,000 a year retirement' or starts another new retirement .
I am sure it would be easy to just fake the recall being corrected, just like how it isn't impossible to simply pay to pass an emissions test. I'd probably try to work around it, too.
The military is even better than socialist, seeing how the policeman of the world keeps many regions stable for little investment from those regions. Of course, one can also look at past policy by our leaders and allies and say "you broke it, you bought it". There's a lot of socialism even in this economic realm which claims to value being self-made, some of it is much less detrimental than others. Most people who cry about socialism don't have much economic education.
Didn't someone (me?) post a link a while back saying that California could refuse to register a car with an outstanding emissions recall?
Seems like I've also read that the recall completion rate for all recalls was something like 20% and that Congress was pressuring the NHTSA to come up with some way to get that number up. Chrysler was offering gift cards for one recall to encourage people to visit the dealer.
(and if you as ten people in here to define "socialism" you're likely to get fourteen different answers, ranging from communism to Bernieism).
I am making your cases?!!
Best socialist system in the world is the US military! Any other ones you can point to are probably wannabe's
Essentially that's what the EPA/CARB has been doing to many CA diesels: made to pay for emissions certifications that tested ZERO emissions. They were more truthful when they EXEMPTED diesels from emissions tests.
Not to get too far field, but I think our system HAS to keep alive that "self-made" fantasy mechanism. Obviously, that helps keep alive the "Disneyland" view of immigrant & to a certain extent EMIGRANT America alive. This is not to mention the taxes that the system gets from the ones so naïve as to believe the "self made" fantasy.
The other side of this are the 47% that pay no to little taxes! So to say that socialism does NOT exist in United States is a notion TOTALLY out of touch with reality . Four more % points & it meets the # & % definition of MAJORITY? IF one is a higher % taxpayer, does not one want more folks paying more taxes on a lesser & lessening load? Indeed many immigrants and emmigrants target the US socialistic system.
Seems fair to me after those VW Union people put all that cheating stuff in the cars. For those that think only US corporations get tax write-offs they should not. Cost of doing business.
Analysts expect Volkswagen to report a 3.5 billion euro operating loss for the third quarter when it publishes its financial results on Wednesday, down from a year-earlier profit of 3.2 billion.
Someone explain this? Highest poverty rate in the Nation and near the bottom on SNAP usage.
But the 23.8 percent of Californians who are impoverished – due largely to the state’s very high costs of housing and other necessities – have one of the nation’s lowest rates of using federal food assistance benefits, according to another Census Bureau report and data from federal and state agencies.
Seems fair to me after those VW Union people put all that cheating stuff in the cars. For those that think only US corporations get tax write-offs they should not. Cost of doing business.
Analysts expect Volkswagen to report a 3.5 billion euro operating loss for the third quarter when it publishes its financial results on Wednesday, down from a year-earlier profit of 3.2 billion.
Lots of people making Sergeant Schultz out to be the genius!?
Someone explain this? Highest poverty rate in the Nation and near the bottom on SNAP usage.
You can't explain that stuff because of all the different ways of defining whatever it is you are talking about.
Nothing to do with diesels anyway....
Meanwhile Honda in the EU is kind of like VW in the US - always seems to have trouble gaining traction and market share. Now Honda is trying to take advantage of DieselGate by hyping their new turbocharged gas engines. Details at Autocar.
Anymore, it's the interrelatedness of things. The $700 gas savings actually resulted in a freeze to Social Security COLA? Did it actually come from a Social Security saved COLA? The case can be made: yay/nay or not even correlated. in any case, I'll take the savings to the bank. it's not much use ( to/for you) to spend it on something else.
Anymore, it's the interrelatedness of things. The $700 gas savings actually resulted in a freeze to Social Security COLA? Did it actually come from a Social Security saved COLA? The case can be made: yay/nay or not even correlated. in any case, I'll take the savings to the bank. it's not much use ( to/for you) to spend it on something else.
I am surprised no one in the government has missed the opportunity to tag US with a windfall profit tax. Oh, yeah they did. US SS people don't get a COLA because everyone else gets cheap gas and diesel. Even though food is skyrocketing upward. Most I have seen produce and Beef in forever.
I try to drive as much as possible to get my fair share. Not easy to do.
Meanwhile Honda in the EU is kind of like VW in the US - always seems to have trouble gaining traction and market share. Now Honda is trying to take advantage of DieselGate by hyping their new turbocharged gas engines. Details at Autocar.
Maybe because they are kind of ugly. And gas is still expensive over there. So Honda sold 150,000 vehicles in the EU and 100,000 were diesels. Did that tell Honda what Europeans want? They never could sell their gas guzzlers in the EU. They should keep building diesels for the EU. And try to clean them up for the US market as well. They have not been selling real well here the last several years.
Meanwhile Honda in the EU is kind of like VW in the US - always seems to have trouble gaining traction and market share. Now Honda is trying to take advantage of DieselGate by hyping their new turbocharged gas engines. Details at Autocar.
Maybe because they are kind of ugly. And gas is still expensive over there. So Honda sold 150,000 vehicles in the EU and 100,000 were diesels. Did that tell Honda what Europeans want? They never could sell their gas guzzlers in the EU. They should keep building diesels for the EU. And try to clean them up for the US market as well. They have not been selling real well here the last several years.
Comments
You and I are both familiar with Altamont Passes, CA Wind Farm! Most folks don't know this, but when you go by, (& we do a lot) you're staring at a graveyard . The majority of those turbine generators don't even move. They are considered antiquated, out of date and dangerous . Yet absolutely none of it is rocket science !? Years ago the thing it has going for it ( investment wise) was that you could take some tax credits and tax write off's . I passed@ that time. It looked deficient then.Now that it is a bone yard, when it should be producing income...@ high prices per kWh, it is dead!!! Even environmental [non-permissible content removed]/Cheer leaders hate it.
While I have absolutely no ill wishes toward EV, in my 41 years experience, EV's dead in the water. EV populations are not even measurable % wise. 291,332/269.3 M =.001082%
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country
So to me, because of everything considered, it's still advantage DIESEL.
Is it a challenging time for VW ? You betcha!
"No software constituting an improper defeat device as defined in law is installed in vehicles with EA288 EU5 as well as EU6-engines in the European Union. Consequently, new vehicles of the Volkswagen Group offered within the European Union with those engines comply with legal requirements and environmental standards."
VW 'EA288' diesel meets EU emission standard (pistonheads.com)
For anyone who doubts either assertion, run your own numbers! So for example, do you think yearly sales are going up or down? Is the PVF up or down from the NHTSA 2013 figures?
If there's anybody that doubts the importance of vehicle sales to the American economy, harken back to ancient history, circa 2009.
Some folks may have taken umbrage with the fact IRS offered a $1,200 tax credit for buying (specifically) a 2009 VW Jetta TDI. One benefit was it made the diesel WAY cheaper than the gasser. In the context yr, many MORE advantages were given to gassers than diesels. In case the real question is not hitting between the eyes, WHO( relatively) was buying at that time?
If I were marketing diesel cars in America I would present them to be as normal as possible---like a gasoline engine that does some things better--you know, like Mazda did with the rotary or Saab did with turbos.
So for example, it is blatantly obvious that nobody cares that I get 35 in a (like model,MB GLK 250 BT/ diesel versus GLK350) 22 mpg in a gas. (Gasser premium of $500 MSRP) or use app 3,090 gal LESS over 12 yrs/180,000 miles.(avg yr 15,000 miles, age, miles) So if most folks like to spend more,(app $9,000 more) and use far more fuel, why should I be upset about that?
Well it does beg the question, which is the whole "like model" point: how much can a DIESEL Mazda 3 post? For that matter a diesel Prius. You nor I, really don't know, for obvious reasons?
So truly, if you want to play that game, the only thing TO get is a like model DIESEL. That is probably one major point why diesel is vilified! The real game is to use more fuel while professing to use less, cost more, while professing efforts to cost less.
Why put the buyers through mental torture and stress of recall and re-calibration. Just fine the VW and exempt the already sold cars.
Its a very logical decision .
There are many different equipment which pollute more then these TDIs , like the thousands of big-rig semi !!
IF the agencies have an issue with current offerings' "real-world" emissions, then they need to consider changing their regulations going forward.
So like most folks don't know that you can burn alternative fuels like: 100% ethanol, e85, e10, methanol, natural gas, diesel, biodiesel, EV, battery, hybrids, etc.
So again if a RUG/PUG is 95 to 97%, would it be better or worse with say each were @ 10% of the PVF? Do you think the fuel costs would go up or down ?
Down + by a LOT !
The owners did not go out to cheat the regs when they bought these cars.
They have as much beef with the EPA as with the VW
EPA allowed these cars to be passed and sold to the public.
Class action lawsuits will be filed against the EPA for defrauding the consumers by "allowing " the VW to cheat the consumers.
Now how do you like my argument which I have turned your argument on its head ????
And what is the point of that fruitless enterprise? Wouldn't it be so much easier for the consumer to be made right by the culprit, which is obviously VW.
I know hating the government is fashionable right now, but let's be practical and address the problem that VW diesel owners have, which is not a political problem---it's a checkbook balance problem.
Hate the government? No! But it's not right that the government agencies like EPA/CARB be politicized and weaponized, and the taking due to an owners purchase of a lawful product, certified by the taking agency.
Why does EPA have no skin of their teeth in this fiasco and consumers need to fight with the VW ?
EPA failed in its duty to protect the consumers whatever people may say otherwise on this thread.
Ohhh sorry, I did not know we lived in a Socialist country
Is that so difficult to understand ? EPA can screw VW as much as they want but leave the buyers alone
Police dont get sued because the Government does not penalze the victim like the car owners .
Subprime auto loans have little chance of causing any meaningful economic impact.
So for example, given US projected 2015 17.5 million in yearly sales, 2.5% of US market share, will be 437,500 units, 2015 MY. Two posters linked articles indicating VW offering up app 2x industry avg (to $4,600) incentives to sell EACH remaining unit. So products, that were screaming buys, are now even better! If I were in the market, what's not to like ?
So, (going forward) IF the US markets don't see fit to buy more of those products @ far less (-minus $4,600, etc.,) the question becomes : why not sell the same product's in someplace else not having to offer those high incentives?
1. Someone high up in the EPA would be selected as scapegoat, and resign (with full benefits I might add)
2. The government will appoint a new "tough" head of EPA who will avow in a press conference that the EPA will in the future make sure consumers are not treated this way, and he/she will apologize for the incident.
3. Life will go on as usual.
Like Texases says, the pragmatic and obvious (to me anyway) solution is to have VW make it right with its customers. The EPA should not under any circumstance open up a Pandora's box of exempting certain "victims", because then everybody will try to jump on board in the future.
The rules are the rules and should apply across the board. The rules can certainly be changed, but then again, they should apply to everybody.
But really in five years who's going to care than an 11-year-old model has 100% or less recall compliance?
Seems like I've also read that the recall completion rate for all recalls was something like 20% and that Congress was pressuring the NHTSA to come up with some way to get that number up. Chrysler was offering gift cards for one recall to encourage people to visit the dealer.
(and if you ask ten people in here to define "socialism" you're likely to get fourteen different answers, ranging from communism to Bernieism).
Best socialist system in the world is the US military! Any other ones you can point to are probably wannabe's
The military is even better than socialist, seeing how the policeman of the world keeps many regions stable for little investment from those regions. Of course, one can also look at past policy by our leaders and allies and say "you broke it, you bought it". There's a lot of socialism even in this economic realm which claims to value being self-made, some of it is much less detrimental than others. Most people who cry about socialism don't have much economic education.
Not to get too far field, but I think our system HAS to keep alive that "self-made" fantasy mechanism. Obviously, that helps keep alive the "Disneyland" view of immigrant & to a certain extent EMIGRANT America alive. This is not to mention the taxes that the system gets from the ones so naïve as to believe the "self made" fantasy.
The other side of this are the 47% that pay no to little taxes! So to say that socialism does NOT exist in United States is a notion TOTALLY out of touch with reality . Four more % points & it meets the # & % definition of MAJORITY? IF one is a higher % taxpayer, does not one want more folks paying more taxes on a lesser & lessening load? Indeed many immigrants and emmigrants target the US socialistic system.
Here is an old food stamps reality
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2015/01/17/cheat-sheet-states-with-most-food-stamps/21877399/
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/vw-freeze-promotions-due-emissions-105013167.html
Analysts expect Volkswagen to report a 3.5 billion euro operating loss for the third quarter when it publishes its financial results on Wednesday, down from a year-earlier profit of 3.2 billion.
But the 23.8 percent of Californians who are impoverished – due largely to the state’s very high costs of housing and other necessities – have one of the nation’s lowest rates of using federal food assistance benefits, according to another Census Bureau report and data from federal and state agencies.
http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article12272387.html
$700 per year savings, extra? @ $2.49 ULSD @ 40 mpg & 15,000 miles commute, that's 75% of the yearly commute!
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/10/24/surprise-the-average-household-is-getting-an-extra.aspx?source=eogyholnk0000001&utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=article
Real slow diesel News Day ! Three VW fiasco letters hit today in the mail.
Nothing to do with diesels anyway....
Meanwhile Honda in the EU is kind of like VW in the US - always seems to have trouble gaining traction and market share. Now Honda is trying to take advantage of DieselGate by hyping their new turbocharged gas engines. Details at Autocar.
I try to drive as much as possible to get my fair share. Not easy to do.
Maybe because they are kind of ugly. And gas is still expensive over there. So Honda sold 150,000 vehicles in the EU and 100,000 were diesels. Did that tell Honda what Europeans want? They never could sell their gas guzzlers in the EU. They should keep building diesels for the EU. And try to clean them up for the US market as well. They have not been selling real well here the last several years.