By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
You and I are both familiar with Altamont Passes, CA Wind Farm! Most folks don't know this, but when you go by, (& we do a lot) you're staring at a graveyard . The majority of those turbine generators don't even move. They are considered antiquated, out of date and dangerous . Yet absolutely none of it is rocket science !? Years ago the thing it has going for it ( investment wise) was that you could take some tax credits and tax write off's . I passed@ that time. It looked deficient then.Now that it is a bone yard, when it should be producing income...@ high prices per kWh, it is dead!!! Even environmental [non-permissible content removed]/Cheer leaders hate it.
While I have absolutely no ill wishes toward EV, in my 41 years experience, EV's dead in the water. EV populations are not even measurable % wise. 291,332/269.3 M =.001082%
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country
So to me, because of everything considered, it's still advantage DIESEL.
Is it a challenging time for VW ? You betcha!
"No software constituting an improper defeat device as defined in law is installed in vehicles with EA288 EU5 as well as EU6-engines in the European Union. Consequently, new vehicles of the Volkswagen Group offered within the European Union with those engines comply with legal requirements and environmental standards."
VW 'EA288' diesel meets EU emission standard (pistonheads.com)
For anyone who doubts either assertion, run your own numbers! So for example, do you think yearly sales are going up or down? Is the PVF up or down from the NHTSA 2013 figures?
If there's anybody that doubts the importance of vehicle sales to the American economy, harken back to ancient history, circa 2009.
Some folks may have taken umbrage with the fact IRS offered a $1,200 tax credit for buying (specifically) a 2009 VW Jetta TDI. One benefit was it made the diesel WAY cheaper than the gasser. In the context yr, many MORE advantages were given to gassers than diesels. In case the real question is not hitting between the eyes, WHO( relatively) was buying at that time?
If I were marketing diesel cars in America I would present them to be as normal as possible---like a gasoline engine that does some things better--you know, like Mazda did with the rotary or Saab did with turbos.
So for example, it is blatantly obvious that nobody cares that I get 35 in a (like model,MB GLK 250 BT/ diesel versus GLK350) 22 mpg in a gas. (Gasser premium of $500 MSRP) or use app 3,090 gal LESS over 12 yrs/180,000 miles.(avg yr 15,000 miles, age, miles) So if most folks like to spend more,(app $9,000 more) and use far more fuel, why should I be upset about that?
Well it does beg the question, which is the whole "like model" point: how much can a DIESEL Mazda 3 post? For that matter a diesel Prius. You nor I, really don't know, for obvious reasons?
So truly, if you want to play that game, the only thing TO get is a like model DIESEL. That is probably one major point why diesel is vilified! The real game is to use more fuel while professing to use less, cost more, while professing efforts to cost less.
Why put the buyers through mental torture and stress of recall and re-calibration. Just fine the VW and exempt the already sold cars.
Its a very logical decision .
There are many different equipment which pollute more then these TDIs , like the thousands of big-rig semi !!
IF the agencies have an issue with current offerings' "real-world" emissions, then they need to consider changing their regulations going forward.
So like most folks don't know that you can burn alternative fuels like: 100% ethanol, e85, e10, methanol, natural gas, diesel, biodiesel, EV, battery, hybrids, etc.
So again if a RUG/PUG is 95 to 97%, would it be better or worse with say each were @ 10% of the PVF? Do you think the fuel costs would go up or down ?
Down + by a LOT !
The owners did not go out to cheat the regs when they bought these cars.
They have as much beef with the EPA as with the VW
EPA allowed these cars to be passed and sold to the public.
Class action lawsuits will be filed against the EPA for defrauding the consumers by "allowing " the VW to cheat the consumers.
Now how do you like my argument which I have turned your argument on its head ????
And what is the point of that fruitless enterprise? Wouldn't it be so much easier for the consumer to be made right by the culprit, which is obviously VW.
I know hating the government is fashionable right now, but let's be practical and address the problem that VW diesel owners have, which is not a political problem---it's a checkbook balance problem.
Hate the government? No! But it's not right that the government agencies like EPA/CARB be politicized and weaponized, and the taking due to an owners purchase of a lawful product, certified by the taking agency.
Why does EPA have no skin of their teeth in this fiasco and consumers need to fight with the VW ?
EPA failed in its duty to protect the consumers whatever people may say otherwise on this thread.
Ohhh sorry, I did not know we lived in a Socialist country
Is that so difficult to understand ? EPA can screw VW as much as they want but leave the buyers alone
Police dont get sued because the Government does not penalze the victim like the car owners .
Subprime auto loans have little chance of causing any meaningful economic impact.
So for example, given US projected 2015 17.5 million in yearly sales, 2.5% of US market share, will be 437,500 units, 2015 MY. Two posters linked articles indicating VW offering up app 2x industry avg (to $4,600) incentives to sell EACH remaining unit. So products, that were screaming buys, are now even better! If I were in the market, what's not to like ?
So, (going forward) IF the US markets don't see fit to buy more of those products @ far less (-minus $4,600, etc.,) the question becomes : why not sell the same product's in someplace else not having to offer those high incentives?
1. Someone high up in the EPA would be selected as scapegoat, and resign (with full benefits I might add)
2. The government will appoint a new "tough" head of EPA who will avow in a press conference that the EPA will in the future make sure consumers are not treated this way, and he/she will apologize for the incident.
3. Life will go on as usual.
Like Texases says, the pragmatic and obvious (to me anyway) solution is to have VW make it right with its customers. The EPA should not under any circumstance open up a Pandora's box of exempting certain "victims", because then everybody will try to jump on board in the future.
The rules are the rules and should apply across the board. The rules can certainly be changed, but then again, they should apply to everybody.
But really in five years who's going to care than an 11-year-old model has 100% or less recall compliance?
Seems like I've also read that the recall completion rate for all recalls was something like 20% and that Congress was pressuring the NHTSA to come up with some way to get that number up. Chrysler was offering gift cards for one recall to encourage people to visit the dealer.
(and if you ask ten people in here to define "socialism" you're likely to get fourteen different answers, ranging from communism to Bernieism).
Best socialist system in the world is the US military! Any other ones you can point to are probably wannabe's
The military is even better than socialist, seeing how the policeman of the world keeps many regions stable for little investment from those regions. Of course, one can also look at past policy by our leaders and allies and say "you broke it, you bought it". There's a lot of socialism even in this economic realm which claims to value being self-made, some of it is much less detrimental than others. Most people who cry about socialism don't have much economic education.
Not to get too far field, but I think our system HAS to keep alive that "self-made" fantasy mechanism. Obviously, that helps keep alive the "Disneyland" view of immigrant & to a certain extent EMIGRANT America alive. This is not to mention the taxes that the system gets from the ones so naïve as to believe the "self made" fantasy.
The other side of this are the 47% that pay no to little taxes! So to say that socialism does NOT exist in United States is a notion TOTALLY out of touch with reality . Four more % points & it meets the # & % definition of MAJORITY? IF one is a higher % taxpayer, does not one want more folks paying more taxes on a lesser & lessening load? Indeed many immigrants and emmigrants target the US socialistic system.
Here is an old food stamps reality
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2015/01/17/cheat-sheet-states-with-most-food-stamps/21877399/
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/vw-freeze-promotions-due-emissions-105013167.html
Analysts expect Volkswagen to report a 3.5 billion euro operating loss for the third quarter when it publishes its financial results on Wednesday, down from a year-earlier profit of 3.2 billion.
But the 23.8 percent of Californians who are impoverished – due largely to the state’s very high costs of housing and other necessities – have one of the nation’s lowest rates of using federal food assistance benefits, according to another Census Bureau report and data from federal and state agencies.
http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article12272387.html
$700 per year savings, extra? @ $2.49 ULSD @ 40 mpg & 15,000 miles commute, that's 75% of the yearly commute!
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/10/24/surprise-the-average-household-is-getting-an-extra.aspx?source=eogyholnk0000001&utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=article
Real slow diesel News Day ! Three VW fiasco letters hit today in the mail.
Nothing to do with diesels anyway....
Meanwhile Honda in the EU is kind of like VW in the US - always seems to have trouble gaining traction and market share. Now Honda is trying to take advantage of DieselGate by hyping their new turbocharged gas engines. Details at Autocar.
I try to drive as much as possible to get my fair share. Not easy to do.
Maybe because they are kind of ugly. And gas is still expensive over there. So Honda sold 150,000 vehicles in the EU and 100,000 were diesels. Did that tell Honda what Europeans want? They never could sell their gas guzzlers in the EU. They should keep building diesels for the EU. And try to clean them up for the US market as well. They have not been selling real well here the last several years.