What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

elias

WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO GET ME TO BUY ANOTHER VW DIESEL:
- Waterboarding
- Mandatory participation in human-pyramids.
(This occurred often during my 1960s/1970s phys-ed classes.)
- Aeronautical porcines egressing a posterior location.

OR THE SOMEWHAT LESS LIKELY:
- New VW USA model with stickshift, RWD or AWD, and similar torque as BMW 335d.
(Call it the 2017 VW COAL-ROLLER and I won't be able to resist it, diesel or gas.)

thecardoc3

Mr_Shiftright said:

Socialism is a very wide spectrum of meanings.

There may be a wide range of examples but it is best explained by a quote associated to Margret Thatcher." The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Margaret_Thatcher

stever

A chemist, Thatcher was instrumental in passing the Environmental Protection Act 1990, which enabled the government to "prescribe any process or substance and set limits on it in respect of emissions into the environment." (wiki) She knew what NOx is. (margaretthatcher.org)

Unfortunately her climate views at the time helped lead John Major to continue to ignore the warning signs back in '93.

Ministers were warned of toxic diesel in 1993 (thegwpf.com)

ruking1

elias said:

WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO GET ME TO BUY ANOTHER VW DIESEL:
- Waterboarding
- Mandatory participation in human-pyramids.
(This occurred often during my 1960s/1970s phys-ed classes.)
- Aeronautical porcines egressing a posterior location.

OR THE SOMEWHAT LESS LIKELY:
- New VW USA model with stickshift, RWD or AWD, and similar torque as BMW 335d.
(Call it the 2017 VW COAL-ROLLER and I won't be able to resist it, diesel or gas.)

From your post, it is equally as apparent NONE of the other OEMs (named or implied) that you would select in place of VW's are holding their collective & individual breath/ & s for your business, either.

ruking1

stever said:

A chemist, Thatcher was instrumental in passing the Environmental Protection Act 1990, which enabled the government to "prescribe any process or substance and set limits on it in respect of emissions into the environment." (wiki) She knew what NOx is. (margaretthatcher.org)

Unfortunately her climate views at the time helped lead John Major to continue to ignore the warning signs back in '93.

Ministers were warned of toxic diesel in 1993 (thegwpf.com)

Goes to show you that conservatives are far from perfect also.

ruking1

carboy21 said:

gagrice said:

Meanwhile Honda in the EU is kind of like VW in the US - always seems to have trouble gaining traction and market share. Now Honda is trying to take advantage of DieselGate by hyping their new turbocharged gas engines. Details at Autocar.

Maybe because they are kind of ugly. And gas is still expensive over there. So Honda sold 150,000 vehicles in the EU and 100,000 were diesels. Did that tell Honda what Europeans want? They never could sell their gas guzzlers in the EU. They should keep building diesels for the EU. And try to clean them up for the US market as well. They have not been selling real well here the last several years.

Nothing can be uglier then the VWs

I would beg to differ! In 2003/2004, that (butt ugly) and slow sales were factors known, in negotiating a favorable deal on that 2004 Honda Civic, which now has about 186,000 miles.

While I have not been able to compare a European Honda Civic versus the US Honda Civic, there's no doubt in my mind that the US Honda would have to significantly upgrade many components of the drivetrain,& @ higher costs to even consider using a diesel.

One can see this $$$ contrast in Chevrolet Cruse gas/diesel.

TMI

I was a tad surprise ( not sure why I was) to see that in the 2015 Honda Civic had 45% less torque (129) than the comparable VW (236). EPA mpgs are less also. It does beg the question @ comparable torque (236=236), what gasser EPA mpgs would be posted?

gagrice

Nothing can be uglier then the VWs

And Stever responds OUCH!

Yes beauty is all in the eyes of the beholder. Over two years now, and I still look at my Touareg with pride. Unlike the Sequoia prior, I was tired of it within the first year. I cannot imagine going out to my garage facing this day in and day out.

Mr_Shiftright

I don't see where giving it away in the UK is any less moral than stealing it in the USA.

Cheap talk coming from a woman whose country's automobile andmotorcycle industry collapsed into utter rubble under her watchful eyes.

Not that the board room of GM in the same period of time couldn't have made for an excellent sci-fi movie about an outbreak of brain-eating spiders.

thecardoc3 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Socialism is a very wide spectrum of meanings.

There may be a wide range of examples but it is best explained by a quote associated to Margret Thatcher." The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Margaret_Thatcher

gagrice

I must say the new MB GLC is growing on me. And what's not to like with their great 4 cylinder diesel engine? I was wondering Ruking, does it bother you that the shifter is not in the center console on the Mercedes? Still not interested in anything new for a while. I do like how MB cleaned up the lines in the new GLC that replaces the GLK. Very classy look to me.

gagrice

Cheap talk coming from a woman whose country's automobile andmotorcycle industry collapsed into utter rubble under her watchful eyes.

Kind of poetic justice that the Indians have taken over much of Britain's industrial wealth. After years of being enslaved by the Brits. I think India produces more good doctors and engineers than any other country. I know we sure bring a lot of them to work in the USA. We are becoming one big family.

Mr_Shiftright

Smart people the Indians---and they've been around a lonnng time.

Speaking of India, and diesels, here's a list of the Top Ten Diesels in India

ruking1

gagrice said:

I must say the new MB GLC is growing on me. And what's not to like with their great 4 cylinder diesel engine? I was wondering Ruking, does it bother you that the shifter is not in the center console on the Mercedes? Still not interested in anything new for a while. I do like how MB cleaned up the lines in the new GLC that replaces the GLK. Very classy look to me.

On the transmissions controls layout differences, I do find myself having to think, visualize and try once or twice: to " lock in" the new pathways, especially if I switch/ back forth on the same day.

ruking1

Mr_Shiftright said:

Smart people the Indians---and they've been around a lonnng time.

Speaking of India, and diesels, here's a list of the Top Ten Diesels in India

If I did my math correctly, the Honda "Civic diesel " posting 26 km/liter translates to 61.15 MPG US.

Anyone that can not even begrudgingly acknowledge that our policies are to actually burned more while professing to burn less, wants to ignore a whole set of realities.

fintail

Funny that someone like Thatcher, who lived very well on the taxpayer dime, would cry about socialism.

The GLC is like a butched up C wagon - the car I want that we don't get here, thanks to crossovers being a fad and carrying larger margins. Not bad looking. Here's what it should look like:



If we could get a C250 Bluetec 4Matic wagon, I would buy one tomorrow/at lease end.

ruking1

At one time, station wagons were a niche rage. For easily the last 30 years, not popular at all. I had a cousin that brought one back recently, (from Belgium) a MB station wagon V8. He had a hard time selling it here and had to trade it in ( probably insult to injury) for a Prius. So a "d" station wagon is a niche within a niche, within other niches like mid size, German OEM etc.

I personally am OK with that in a large SUV or even CUV. (More utility, rather than looks) I haven't liked the station wagon car. My dad liked the station wagon car & bought a new 1986 Toyota Cressida. Of course, the sleeper here was a de tuned Supra 6 cylinder! This thing was a kick to drive, and even was a kick in the mountains(SOS/DD), albeit poor fuel mileage. Winter conditions made it sketchy@ best.

ruking1

An interesting take when HUGE governments, labor unions, union/ government pensions , family ownership can gang up on management, even when all the above ARE board & overseers of management & ownership!? Sort of a spy versus spy in one spy ?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/volkswagen-complicated-only-insiders-fix-071315804--finance.html

So I think it's easy to say that the criticism against VW are criticisms against governments, labor unions, pensions, etc.! Lessons here? Might be too much to even ask the ?'s? So if you come to rational conclusions like : big governments big labor unions, big union pension people, all asleep at the wheel.... or Sergeant Schultzing it.... ??

Lol, Bring out that "crappy movie maker parolee" in LA . The one sentenced for the Benghazi incident and give them another sentence for diesel gate! Sergeant Schulz and him should be able to save the day. AKA, movie, Casablanca: "round up the usual suspects".

I can't even make this stuff up.

stever

VW recently brought in an outsider.

VW names Daimler compliance manager to help tackle scandal (Reuters)

Interesting paragraph in your link:

"Fellow auto giants General Motors and Toyota stayed with insiders as CEOs as they faced scandals over defective vehicles. Toyota recalled millions of cars after a crisis in 2009-10 over unintended acceleration in some cars and GM had to fix vehicles where faulty ignition switches could shut off the engine and disable airbags."

Toyota just got hit with another huge recall, some 6.5 million vehicles to refix a fiery window switch after a similar recall of 7.4 million. (Forbes) It's their second try at fixing it - they either have too much grease on it or too little. Blame is being put on NHTSA's efforts to rein in the automakers, but Toyota is know to be very close to their suppliers, and Toyota only got their first "outside" board members in 2013.

ruking1

Totally my swag, but I thought they would bring in an outsider. I also indicated a woman also. Then after the klieg lights are turned off of the scandal/ or dies down in the media, blame the outsider for the resulting acrimony made in the clean up process. Then kick this person out to keep or rearrange everything the same as before.

I would daresay that VW serves as one model for GM's shift to massive ownership and board membership by union and union pensions & management. Keep in mind that not only did the FED make the taxpayer bail GM out, while stockholders, etc loss massively, but the FED also make BILLIONS of $$'s. So yeah, to answer Gragrices' question, posted long ago, there IS/ will be an optimum time/s to get back into VW stock. I'm still waiting for the other rollercoaster ride....DOWN!

ruking1

Gee if you just substitute oil for produce, does this (old) tune sound familiar? Planned destruction of domestic manufacturing, production, etc. !?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/californias-growers-bear-brunt-of-drought-woes-1445765403

Mr_Shiftright

Connect the dots because I'm totally missing this.

texases

One way to solve the "nobody will take their cars in" problem is to pay them. So TDI owners - how much would it take for you to accept EPA mpgs and an Ablu system?

carboy21

texases said:

One way to solve the "nobody will take their cars in" problem is to pay them. So TDI owners - how much would it take for you to accept EPA mpgs and an Ablu system?

The only suitable way to solve the problem is to grant exemption to the existing owners.
Why penalize the victims of a fraud ??

If a builders sells homes in their thousands which do not meet the code, would you penalize the homeowners ??

Would you pay the full value of the cars or the homes ?? Because that is the only acceptable solution and in both cases the Auto maker and the builder would rather file for bankruptcy then pay the billions like the famous GM and the UNITED / DELTA airlines

texases

So you would refuse $5,000?

gagrice

fintail said:

Funny that someone like Thatcher, who lived very well on the taxpayer dime, would cry about socialism.

The GLC is like a butched up C wagon - the car I want that we don't get here, thanks to crossovers being a fad and carrying larger margins. Not bad looking. Here's what it should look like:



If we could get a C250 Bluetec 4Matic wagon, I would buy one tomorrow/at lease end.

Way too close to the ground for our third world roads in much of the USA. That C wagon looks like it would bottom out on most driveways. My doctor dumped his new LS460 for that very reason. Could not get into his driveway without scraping the under carriage.

gagrice

carboy21 said:

texases said:

One way to solve the "nobody will take their cars in" problem is to pay them. So TDI owners - how much would it take for you to accept EPA mpgs and an Ablu system?

The only suitable way to solve the problem is to grant exemption to the existing owners.
Why penalize the victims of a fraud ??

If a builders sells homes in their thousands which do not meet the code, would you penalize the homeowners ??

Would you pay the full value of the cars or the homes ?? Because that is the only acceptable solution and in both cases the Auto maker and the builder would rather file for bankruptcy then pay the billions like the famous GM and the UNITED / DELTA airlines

Agreed, if an owner insists on having the car fixed, they can accept any degradation in mileage or power. I seriously doubt it will drop mileage below the very conservative EPA ratings. Otherwise let them be tested as in the past. Just make sure all new VW TDIs pass emissions when on the road.

The EPA could contract with that WV university to buy new models both gas and diesel and test on a random basis. No special car sent from the manufacturers. I doubt it would cost near what we waste on the EPA annually.

ruking1

gagrice said:

fintail said:

Funny that someone like Thatcher, who lived very well on the taxpayer dime, would cry about socialism.

The GLC is like a butched up C wagon - the car I want that we don't get here, thanks to crossovers being a fad and carrying larger margins. Not bad looking. Here's what it should look like:



If we could get a C250 Bluetec 4Matic wagon, I would buy one tomorrow/at lease end.

Way too close to the ground for our third world roads in much of the USA. That C wagon looks like it would bottom out on most driveways. My doctor dumped his new LS460 for that very reason. Could not get into his driveway without scraping the under carriage.

Wow ! Thanks for verbalizing what I do reflexively before I buy all cars, sans one! I am sure it is VERY costly to fix even a casual munching of the front undercarriage.

Mr_Shiftright

I assure you no municipality would exempt a badly built house from the building code. And no bank is going to finance a home not up to code.

the homeowner sues the builder. That's how it works.

carboy21 said:

texases said:

One way to solve the "nobody will take their cars in" problem is to pay them. So TDI owners - how much would it take for you to accept EPA mpgs and an Ablu system?

The only suitable way to solve the problem is to grant exemption to the existing owners.
Why penalize the victims of a fraud ??

If a builders sells homes in their thousands which do not meet the code, would you penalize the homeowners ??

Would you pay the full value of the cars or the homes ?? Because that is the only acceptable solution and in both cases the Auto maker and the builder would rather file for bankruptcy then pay the billions like the famous GM and the UNITED / DELTA airlines

ruking1

carboy21 said:

texases said:

One way to solve the "nobody will take their cars in" problem is to pay them. So TDI owners - how much would it take for you to accept EPA mpgs and an Ablu system?

The only suitable way to solve the problem is to grant exemption to the existing owners.
Why penalize the victims of a fraud ??

If a builders sells homes in their thousands which do not meet the code, would you penalize the homeowners ??

Would you pay the full value of the cars or the homes ?? Because that is the only acceptable solution and in both cases the Auto maker and the builder would rather file for bankruptcy then pay the billions like the famous GM and the UNITED / DELTA airlines

Since I am under the CARB ( CA ) the most strngent inspection protocols in the country, just continue the SAME every other year CARB smog test!

This CARB directed & certified test NEVER, I repeat NEVER, triggered the so called "cheating" software, faking anything.!!!! So VW never cheated anybody during the every other year smog test! The CARB test also passed legal muster.

What remains to be tested is when the (my) actual VW is hooked up to a so called.dynamometer type situation. The question is obvious and by how much !

Mine were NEVER put on the dynamometer, in the process of their every other year smog test.!!According to CARB protocols, ALL passed with flying colors!!! I have been saying this ALL along!!! I even have the smog documentation saying so !!!

Another option: go back to the exemption diesel cars USE to have in CA for the affected cars!!!! So for example, on the 2003 VW Jetta TDI had a California smog exemption for most of its miles and life .

Mr_Shiftright

So as the owner of a non VW diesel, you would be happy with only VW diesels being exempt while you go through smog inspection rigors and expense? I don't think I would be. Why should I be penalized for VW's treachery?

ruking1

Mr_Shiftright said:

So as the owner of a non VW diesel, you would be happy with only VW diesels being exempt while you go through smog inspection rigors and expense? I don't think I would be. Why should I be penalized for VW's treachery?

I am not sure why you are only now waking up to it? The exemption has already come and gone. You can Google it .

What I didn't indicate is the fact of the matter is non-diesel VW's, as any other gasser car, does NOT have to undergo a second year smog test. AKA diesel owners are unfairly treated !!

All the brouhaha is between EPA/CARB & VW. Put another way, do you think EPA/CARB will rebate to me any of the fines and penalties ? So if found guilty in a court of law, fine them (remedy) and move on.

Mr_Shiftright

??? Most Californians are subject to bi-annual smog inspections.

ruking1

A real life example: will smog tests be due in 2016 on both the 2014 Mercedes-Benz GLK350/250 BT. . Or just the 250BT?

Mr_Shiftright

Same for both--biennial smog testing. Some zip codes may not require biennials.

ruking1

If what you're saying is true, then I am in the zip code that does not require a 2016 biannual for 2014 gassers. Still, not fair, and is unevenly applied.

Mr_Shiftright

It's fair because your zip code doesn't have a severe smog problem.

Michaell

Mr_Shiftright said:

It's fair because your zip code doesn't have a severe smog problem.

Exactly --- here in CO only Denver County and the surrounding suburban counties are subject to emission checks. If I were to move one county east, I'd be exempt. But then I'd be living in rural CO without access to the amenities we've grown accustomed to.

gagrice

I assure you no municipality would exempt a badly built house from the building code. And no bank is going to finance a home not up to code.

the homeowner sues the builder. That's how it works.

During the subprime bubble, mortgage brokers and appraisers would finance anything that looked like a structure. Many did drive by appraisals without ever stepping foot on the property. Worst part is the Feds through FHA, Fannie and Freddie were buying those loans. The tax payers are still paying for that government boondoggle.

We have sold two places here in San Diego since 2010 and the inspections were more realistic, they still did not come up to current code. Beware IF you do any remodel work. They can make you bring everything up to code. May include new wiring, plumbing, fire sprinklers, HVAC, foundation. A simple bathroom upgrade can end up bankrupting a person.

Mr_Shiftright

a.k.a. the flat, endless "boonies".

Michaell said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

It's fair because your zip code doesn't have a severe smog problem.

Exactly --- here in CO only Denver County and the surrounding suburban counties are subject to emission checks. If I were to move one county east, I'd be exempt. But then I'd be living in rural CO without access to the amenities we've grown accustomed to.

Mr_Shiftright

Perhaps, but the bank needed someone to sign off on the inspection. Some of those people went to jail.

gagrice said:

I assure you no municipality would exempt a badly built house from the building code. And no bank is going to finance a home not up to code.

the homeowner sues the builder. That's how it works.

During the subprime bubble, mortgage brokers and appraisers would finance anything that looked like a structure. Many did drive by appraisals without ever stepping foot on the property. Worst part is the Feds through FHA, Fannie and Freddie were buying those loans. The tax payers are still paying for that government boondoggle.

We have sold two places here in San Diego since 2010 and the inspections were more realistic, they still did not come up to current code. Beware IF you do any remodel work. They can make you bring everything up to code. May include new wiring, plumbing, fire sprinklers, HVAC, foundation. A simple bathroom upgrade can end up bankrupting a person.

stevedebi

ruking1 said:

carboy21 said:

texases said:

One way to solve the "nobody will take their cars in" problem is to pay them. So TDI owners - how much would it take for you to accept EPA mpgs and an Ablu system?

The only suitable way to solve the problem is to grant exemption to the existing owners.
Why penalize the victims of a fraud ??

If a builders sells homes in their thousands which do not meet the code, would you penalize the homeowners ??

Would you pay the full value of the cars or the homes ?? Because that is the only acceptable solution and in both cases the Auto maker and the builder would rather file for bankruptcy then pay the billions like the famous GM and the UNITED / DELTA airlines

Since I am under the CARB ( CA ) the most strngent inspection protocols in the country, just continue the SAME every other year CARB smog test!

This CARB directed & certified test NEVER, I repeat NEVER, triggered the so called "cheating" software, faking anything.!!!! So VW never cheated anybody during the every other year smog test! The CARB test also passed legal muster.

What remains to be tested is when the (my) actual VW is hooked up to a so called.dynamometer type situation. The question is obvious and by how much !

Mine were NEVER put on the dynamometer, in the process of their every other year smog test.!!According to CARB protocols, ALL passed with flying colors!!! I have been saying this ALL along!!! I even have the smog documentation saying so !!!

Another option: go back to the exemption diesel cars USE to have in CA for the affected cars!!!! So for example, on the 2003 VW Jetta TDI had a California smog exemption for most of its miles and life .

I'm not really seeing your point.

The smog tests for CA vehicles do not invoke anything - they plug into the OBD II port to ensure the computer is running correctly. This what your "documentation" indicates - that the computer reported no errors in the emissions systems. They have been using this system for a number of years now. They don't check the actual emissions.

But VW did cheat somebody - every owner who bought the cars based on the marketing claims of high MPG and low emissions - as listed in the EPA ratings. Their cheat device allowed them to pass EPA testing and deceive owners.

The tests that trigger the code were only invoked when the cars were actually tested on a hynamometer. So far as I know that is never part of a CARB smog test. It was only done on select vehicles at an EPA facility.

stevedebi

carboy21 said:

gagrice said:

Meanwhile Honda in the EU is kind of like VW in the US - always seems to have trouble gaining traction and market share. Now Honda is trying to take advantage of DieselGate by hyping their new turbocharged gas engines. Details at Autocar.

Maybe because they are kind of ugly. And gas is still expensive over there. So Honda sold 150,000 vehicles in the EU and 100,000 were diesels. Did that tell Honda what Europeans want? They never could sell their gas guzzlers in the EU. They should keep building diesels for the EU. And try to clean them up for the US market as well. They have not been selling real well here the last several years.

Nothing can be uglier then the VWs

My wife and I both loved the styling of our 2014 Passat TDI. Classic. In a few years, this new phase of swooping metal is going to look as dated (but never as classic) as tail fins from the '50s. VW styling is simple and aerodynamic, and the TDI has power to match. We love everything about ours. (Well, the roof is too low for me, but my wife is short and doesn't mind).

carboy21

My wife and I both loved the styling of our 2014 Passat TDI

That is no styling at all. Plain bland 1970's sedan. VW saves money on car designers.
Teutonic frugality
You got to be Teutonic to love that 'styling'

fintail

Very very few received more than a slap on the wrist, because in Murka, we chase non-violent drug criminals, not financial criminals. Keep us away from anarchy and all that.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Perhaps, but the bank needed someone to sign off on the inspection. Some of those people went to jail.

fintail

Sounds like an engineering fail. An LS isn't too low slung...some properties have hilariously banked driveways thanks to dumb owners and contractors. Luckily I don't live in NY or MI with the bad roads. They are adequate here, at least in quality, not quantity.

Is there any word of a diesel GLC? GLA, too.

gagrice said:

Way too close to the ground for our third world roads in much of the USA. That C wagon looks like it would bottom out on most driveways. My doctor dumped his new LS460 for that very reason. Could not get into his driveway without scraping the under carriage.

texases

I know that VW will be required to offer a mechanical fix to US cars, so the question is simple: how much would they have to pay you to do it?

ruking1

stevedebi said:

ruking1 said:

carboy21 said:

texases said:

One way to solve the "nobody will take their cars in" problem is to pay them. So TDI owners - how much would it take for you to accept EPA mpgs and an Ablu system?

The only suitable way to solve the problem is to grant exemption to the existing owners.
Why penalize the victims of a fraud ??

If a builders sells homes in their thousands which do not meet the code, would you penalize the homeowners ??

Would you pay the full value of the cars or the homes ?? Because that is the only acceptable solution and in both cases the Auto maker and the builder would rather file for bankruptcy then pay the billions like the famous GM and the UNITED / DELTA airlines

Since I am under the CARB ( CA ) the most strngent inspection protocols in the country, just continue the SAME every other year CARB smog test!

This CARB directed & certified test NEVER, I repeat NEVER, triggered the so called "cheating" software, faking anything.!!!! So VW never cheated anybody during the every other year smog test! The CARB test also passed legal muster.

What remains to be tested is when the (my) actual VW is hooked up to a so called.dynamometer type situation. The question is obvious and by how much !

Mine were NEVER put on the dynamometer, in the process of their every other year smog test.!!According to CARB protocols, ALL passed with flying colors!!! I have been saying this ALL along!!! I even have the smog documentation saying so !!!

Another option: go back to the exemption diesel cars USE to have in CA for the affected cars!!!! So for example, on the 2003 VW Jetta TDI had a California smog exemption for most of its miles and life .

I'm not really seeing your point.

The smog tests for CA vehicles do not invoke anything - they plug into the OBD II port to ensure the computer is running correctly. This what your "documentation" indicates - that the computer reported no errors in the emissions systems. They have been using this system for a number of years now. They don't check the actual emissions.

But VW did cheat somebody - every owner who bought the cars based on the marketing claims of high MPG and low emissions - as listed in the EPA ratings. Their cheat device allowed them to pass EPA testing and deceive owners.

The tests that trigger the code were only invoked when the cars were actually tested on a hynamometer. So far as I know that is never part of a CARB smog test. It was only done on select vehicles at an EPA facility.

You are precisely making my point !

ruking1

texases said:

I know that VW will be required to offer a mechanical fix to US cars, so the question is simple: how much would they have to pay you to do it?

To start off with, I'm not unhappy with the car the way it is! The other: nobody else really cares! The EPA who says it wants it fixed, doesn't know me from Adam? It doesn't even know if my VW is out of compliance! MPG has actually increased on the next generation iteration.

So how many$$$ is a simple answer! It would depend on decrease in perceived/acutual loss of value on resale. Whether the fix adds/takes away. Pop some bigger injectors in with a new chip & precise VAG tune, & still fall within the specifications? Cool! Increased MPG? WOW! That's forward looking progress?!

gagrice

carboy21 said:

My wife and I both loved the styling of our 2014 Passat TDI

That is no styling at all. Plain bland 1970's sedan. VW saves money on car designers.
Teutonic frugality
You got to be Teutonic to love that 'styling'

I resemble that remark. I like bland simple lines. I also insist on vehicles without massive blind spots. Something way too many vehicles have. That to me is shoddy design and engineering.

carboy21

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Morris_Cowley_1956.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Morris_Oxford_Series_V_as_in_early_Pinifarina_1489cc_mfd_1959.JPG

simoncars.co.uk/wolseley/slides/Riley%20One-Point-Five%20Series%20III%20rear.jpg


These cars have no blind spots ! Design is from 1950's

ruking1

Hey guys , the "WINK" wide-angle rear view mirror (7? angled mirrors that let you see 5 lanes oner your right shoulder & 2/3 over your left ) has been outlawed for a long time! I loved that thing !