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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Seems "different" this time.

    btw Sneakers, my wife doesn't know that her house is on Zillow, so when you see her next, mum's the word. B)
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    stever said:

    Seems "different" this time.

    btw Sneakers, my wife doesn't know that her house is on Zillow, so when you see her next, mum's the word. B)

    House? What house??? B)
  • slorenzenslorenzen Member Posts: 694
    stever said:

    Seems "different" this time.

    btw Sneakers, my wife doesn't know that her house is on Zillow, so when you see her next, mum's the word. B)

    Where you thinking of moving to now?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    PF_Flyer said:

    stever said:

    Seems "different" this time.

    btw Sneakers, my wife doesn't know that her house is on Zillow, so when you see her next, mum's the word. B)

    House? What house??? B)
    I plead the Sergeant Schulz on this one !

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2015
    slorenzen said:

    Where you thinking of moving to now?

    I want to be closer in to town so I can bike and walk more (you know how I miss the smell of diesel fumes living out in the county like I do). If we stay put, I gotta find that old Miata.

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    PF_Flyer said:

    Interesting measure... miles per buck... mmmm, paid $2.17 this morning, getting 40 MPG... carry the 2...
    18.43 MPB B)

    So the 16 mile round trip to the grocery store is like 87 cents!

    Thought more about this and applied it to my flight to LA this week. 2,580 miles (as the car would drive) worked out to 5.78 miles/$ Of course, there's the time factor too.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2015
    PF_Flyer said:

    PF_Flyer said:

    Interesting measure... miles per buck... mmmm, paid $2.17 this morning, getting 40 MPG... carry the 2...
    18.43 MPB B)

    So the 16 mile round trip to the grocery store is like 87 cents!

    Thought more about this and applied it to my flight to LA this week. 2,580 miles (as the car would drive) worked out to 5.78 miles/$ Of course, there's the time factor too.
    Cost per mile driven (cpmd ) is really the most unambiguous way! Of course I know there are a lot of folks that fill like $3.00 @ a time.

    For folks that can conduct business during a "non productive" commuting time, it can be a huge productivity gain. The key of course is to be as safe or safer, as if one is in the office. So for example, commuting is app 3 hrs per day, ( 15 hours week, 37.5 % of a 40 hour week) x however many people, in our case up to 3.
    So itr's a bit oxymoronic that governments both complains about, mitigates & enforces long commutes.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    stever - you're a great candidate for that 2016 Scion iA!

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Gotta have a drop top. :)
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    Your next rig's gotta have a drop top? Re-hee-ha-hee-ha-reaaalllly? :p

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Ruking: I take it that your Touareg TDI's 30,000 miles (scheduled & included) service was uneventful, with zero warranty issues?


    Very uneventful, less than two hours. I did tell them not to rotate and mess with tires. Discount tire does that free every 5k miles. I am supposed to have totally free service the first 48k miles, including brakes. So not sure why they wanted to charge me $60 for an air filter. Ordered on Amazon Prime $14. They don't put any prices so not sure what this service will cost after 4 years or 48K miles?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    In my case, it's more like a "make my wife move" price. And that price could be heavy, LOL. Lots more that the price I posted on Zillow. ;)

    It's kind of like Shifty's "list your classic car on eBay with a high reserve" to get a value estimate trick. We got great feedback using Zillow on our Boise house and used that info to stage the house for the actual sale a year later.

    Some places Zillow is very close to what an appraisal would be. Other areas they can be way off. Where do you want to move next?
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    edited December 2015
    Dodge City, KS, stever?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Stever did pick one of the best places to retire.

    http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mjf45hfje/las-cruces-nm/
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2015
    Just wanna be closer to town. Not quite ready to relocate to LA. And the convertible would be the second car. The main ride needs a pano roof.

    Also overheard that Edmunds got a '16 Prius for the long term fleet. But alcohol was involved so who knows. :) There is a new Volt in the fleet.

    @gagrice, my limited experience is that Zillow numbers are low. Kind of like how tax appraisals are often low in many areas compared to market value.

    Hey. wait a minute. Who said I was retired? That low walkability rank in the Forbes link kind of nailed it for me. I'm in a high hikeability area but can't walk or bike for the post office or the library.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "The Environmental Protection Agency and California Air Resources Board approved the sale of the new 2016 BMW diesel X5 after government testing found no evidence of software to evade emissions standards, the government said Thursday.

    In September, U.S. environmental regulators and Transport Canada announced they would review all current diesel passenger cars, trucks and SUVs for sale to ensure that they did not have "defeat devices."

    U.S. approves 2016 BMW diesel X5 SUV after EPA review (Reuters)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    VW @ # 2 ? http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2015/12/11/volkswagen-expected-to-remain-2nd-ranked-in-2015/?utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    "The Environmental Protection Agency and California Air Resources Board approved the sale of the new 2016 BMW diesel X5 after government testing found no evidence of software to evade emissions standards, the government said Thursday.

    In September, U.S. environmental regulators and Transport Canada announced they would review all current diesel passenger cars, trucks and SUVs for sale to ensure that they did not have "defeat devices."

    U.S. approves 2016 BMW diesel X5 SUV after EPA review (Reuters)


    Is it possible that BMW being the largest exporter of USA made vehicles played a part? Not saying the EPA could be bought off. We know that would never happen in the least corrupt government in the World.

    I am waiting for the MB GLC 300D to show up. They are not listed yet on the EPA site.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I got all excited when I saw this new model SUV.



    Then I learn it does not have a diesel engine option. $300k and no diesel engine. What are they thinking? It does have a Breitling clock.

    But the coolest (and most appalling) thing in the Bentayga interior is the optional Breitling clock set atop the dashboard. It’s available in either white or rose gold, with a face of black or white mother-of-pearl, and studded with eight diamonds. Cost? 150,000 euros, or about $160,000. C&D



    I guess I will stick with VW's little brother to the Bentley Bentayga for now. Has Edmunds done a test drive yet?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2015
    Not unless the test drive article is in production - just a press release kind of blurb up so far.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    Nice design on that SUV - looks very sedan-ish from the front view.

    We know that would never happen in the least corrupt government in the World

    Were you being sarcastic when saying the above, gagrice? Or do you really believe the U.S. has the least corrupt government of them all? Watch out - loaded question here!

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2015
    iluvmysephia1 said:

    Nice design on that SUV - looks very sedan-ish from the front view.

    We know that would never happen in the least corrupt government in the World

    Were you being sarcastic when saying the above, gagrice? Or do you really believe the U.S. has the least corrupt government of them all? Watch out - loaded question here!

    If one can't come up with @ least 10 examples, (on whatever button pushing issues) documented by news agencies or otherwise, one might be like the mushroom farmer: keep em in the dark & feed em ....?

    More on-topic, barely noticed, seamless diesels.

    In the process of hosting a very long time friend (happens to be an airline pilot- who was with us for app a day & one/ half) we racked up several hundred miles in two diesels. I backed off my normal "run it hard put it away wet" mode (old home week conversations, car meetings, etc. ) . I also dont talk about diesels to friends, unless they bring it up. So after a few hundred miles in various short trips, we were standing in front of the MB GLK 250 BT, when the wife started it up to back out of the driveway. He looks at me asking, is that a diesel? I just off-handedly said yes, & we were off on another topic.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,423
    The US is corrupt, but so is everyone else. Heckholes like Russia and China that some self-proclaimed free market supporters seem to adore are infinitely more corrupt than the US. Many of the places regarded as low corruption also have things the free marketeer set despise, like social goods and widespread unions.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    And in China and South Korea they torture and murder dogs and cats for human consumption, but, I am really digressing here. Yuk...I seriously have huge problems with that aspect of those countries.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    iluvmysephia1 said:

    Nice design on that SUV - looks very sedan-ish from the front view.

    We know that would never happen in the least corrupt government in the World

    Were you being sarcastic when saying the above, gagrice? Or do you really believe the U.S. has the least corrupt government of them all? Watch out - loaded question here!

    Me Sarcastic? More satirical. Just seems funny the only 2016 diesel SUVs built in the USA get a pass to sell. The BMW X3 & X5 diesels are assembled here along with the MB GLE300 D.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2015
    Sure wish I was buying ULSD in Georgia at $ 1.89 !!! :D
    ($1.79 RUG, $2.22 PUG)!

    Buying CA local ULSD @ $2.23. :o
    ($2.13 RUG, PUG@ $2.37)

    Our daughter came home for Christmas & is playing tour guide to some of her class mates.

    Snow is in the Tahoe area! (SOS/DD trek)

    I hope everybody's going to have a Merry Christmas!

    Mpg numbers are seemingly unaffected by"winters" onset. So TDI 's are unchanged @ 50, 40, 36, 33 mpg's . Gassers (my) normally would take a 10 to 15% "winter hit".

    I watch the Motor Week's episode where the Chevrolet's 16 Silverado 2500 HD diesel posted 18.1 miles a gallon. That mpg didn't sound very impressive, but compared to the gassers normal 13.7 to 14.3 mpg , that 29% BETTER! When you compare 380 # ft of torque versus 769 # ft of torque, ....there's almost no comparison!

    Too bad GM didn't include gas hybrids, E85, EV.. Options. I am guessing those numbers would not be very impressive over gas!? Indeed E 85 is app 25 to 30 % less than gas @ 10 to 10.5 mpg?

    Don't get used to cheap gas? http://www.thestreet.com/story/13390537/1/why-oil-is-about-to-start-a-huge-multi-month-rally.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2015
    But then on the other hand, spot prices are @ $ 1.24 ULSD, $1.23 RUG.!
    http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=diesel
    http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=gasoline
    The 1 cent higher price of ULSD is interesting in light of the TMI baggage discussed on this board: facts/ fictions & other realities probably too numerous to mention.
    Suffice to say, it exposes a lot of hater arguments as fiction, especially in light of the 10 gals of ULSD to 19 gals of gasoline from a (42 gal) barrel of oil. If one cent more is (hater) proof positive, then I submit there are opaque issues: related & unrelated.

    While there is/are always variance in prices & pricing, if one does the comparative overlays (above web sites)the prices are by in large lock step!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Some guys on YouTube tested a VW TDI to see if this mysterious software actually existed and what exactly it did. The results were interesting. They "fooled" the VW into thinking it was NOT in test mode by testing it on an AWD dyno on first pull,(making all four wheels spin in other words and making the car's brain think that it was actually on the road) then the 2W dyno mode as might be done in an emissions test.

    And yep, the car purposely dropped power at certain rpms.

    DIESELGATE TEST
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Given the negligible difference in fuel costs, the major bump in purchase cost, and the slight sacrifice in performance, it's hard to make a case for the diesel vs. the 1.4T."

    Does the Volkswagen Jetta 1.4T Render the Diesel Engine Pointless? (Consumer Reports)
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    edited December 2015
    CR's now behind a paywall...too bad.

    Now I can see it!

    But that brings up a point I wondered about when the first diesel Rabbits made their appearance - how much difference would there have been between one of those old diesel Rabbits and a gasser Rabbit with the same (anemic) performance?

    Now days, diesels are much better, but so are gassers, as that CR article shows (I assume).
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Odd, that link is fine for me in both Chrome and IE11. Too bad, one of their better articles.

    btw @ruking1, what's wrong with being a hater? I have strong opinions about liver and onions too, and I have a basis for my opinion.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2015
    Let's see, a gasser 1.4 L unk # ft, 6 speed old school A/T vs diesel 2.0 L 236 # ft, 6 speed DSG.(gasser is 30% smaller power plant, jinkier transmission) ?

    Make that 1.4 L gasser vs 1.4 L TDI & I might be curious. Till then, advantage TDI! . If it is mpg that's the concern, why not let VW bring the old 75 mpg TDI Polo? :D Oh that's right, not on the anti TDI narrative! ?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    Odd, that link is fine for me in both Chrome and IE11. Too bad, one of their better articles.

    btw @ruking1, what's wrong with being a hater? I have strong opinions about liver and onions too, and I have a basis for my opinion.

    Diesels you either hate them or love them. To know them is to love them.

    CR worked for me. I would have to drive the 1.4L Jetta to make any judgement.

    I wonder how many people refuse to have the fix done if it does lose power? You could always take it in before selling it, so that it complies. At least in states where they test diesels. I only see 9 states that test diesel cars. So you could sell in one of the 41 states without worrying about it. Same goes for owners of VW TDI. I don't think the EPA has any testing facilities. So it is up to the individual if they feel so inclined.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2015
    stever said:

    Odd, that link is fine for me in both Chrome and IE11. Too bad, one of their better articles.

    btw @ruking1, what's wrong with being a hater? I have strong opinions about liver and onions too, and I have a basis for my opinion.

    Unless it turns into anti diesel jihad, absolutely nothing wrong! I have said & acknowledged that 95% on up use gassers! It's pretty easy, don't like TDI's, don't buy them.

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    Now that I can see the CR article (go figger), it shows the 1.4 gasser slightly better in performance, very slightly poorer in fuel costs ($55/year - almost 0), but almost $3,000 cheaper to buy. No way to make the $$ work out for the TDI.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2015
    texases said:

    Now that I can see the CR article (go figger), it shows the 1.4 gasser slightly better in performance, very slightly poorer in fuel costs ($55/year - almost 0), but almost $3,000 cheaper to buy. No way to make the $$ work out for the TDI.

    Not very meaningful in light of your past postings about poor (gasser) VW unit sales! I'm sure this is a very good product, but not many arebreaking down the doors to buy it!

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    I have no idea what you're talking about.
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    stever said:

    "Given the negligible difference in fuel costs, the major bump in purchase cost, and the slight sacrifice in performance, it's hard to make a case for the diesel vs. the 1.4T."

    Does the Volkswagen Jetta 1.4T Render the Diesel Engine Pointless? (Consumer Reports)

    If the gas prices remain at this level forever then diesels and hybrids will die a slow death.

    Question is will it ?

    Hybrids pollute the world with Lithium in someone else's back yard.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2015
    carboy21 said:

    stever said:

    "Given the negligible difference in fuel costs, the major bump in purchase cost, and the slight sacrifice in performance, it's hard to make a case for the diesel vs. the 1.4T."

    Does the Volkswagen Jetta 1.4T Render the Diesel Engine Pointless? (Consumer Reports)

    If the gas prices remain at this level forever then diesels and hybrids will die a slow death.

    Question is will it ?

    Hybrids pollute the world with Lithium in someone else's back yard.
    For TDI's NO! In a word RATIO's!

    Historically in times of low to lower fuel prices, the emphasis from all the OEMs has been on more power (aka less mpg?). Great times for (75% of the market) mid sized cars to light trucks!!!? For very new compact ( 25% of the market) models, the jury is still out. Additionally, the real test would be 1.4 L gas/TDI. I suspect the advantage still goes to TDI. All this talk of gasser Renaissance is WAY premature !

    One does NOT see a major migration from VW's real nice 1.8 L engine to its more fuel economic 1.4 L . Will there be those that do? Absolutely & undoubtably! In fact, there are some that have highlighted the drop in VW gasser sales! Then, more recently deny even remembering saying that!?

    From my point of view, gas (21 mpg) vs diesel (36 mpg) (like vs like, MB GLK 350/250BT) really does not change the metics ratios much., other than TDI's become even cheaper to operate: by itself & against gassers i.e., great times to operate/own like model TDI's. (cpmd: fuel 11.1 cents/6.1 cents)

    In addition, indexmundi.com diesel/gasoline overlays going back 30 years, indicate the gasoline/diesel prices go up & down virtually in lock step. So, given ratios, this is HUGE ! HUGE ! HUGE ! , even as it is boring....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...... !

    So even @ today's lower prices $2.35 PUG/ $ 2.19 ULSD, (12 years/180,000 miles) posts $20,143-$10,950=$9,193. saved. ($766. per year.) Anyone can run $ 4.00/$10per gal gas/diesel scenarios.

    Of course, it goes without saying that the gasser/TDI engine size mismatch is enormous! 3.5 L- 2.1 L = 1.4 L bigger or 67% !

    MB BT is -$500 MSRP LESS! MB is the test case for diesel sales @ par to lower than (advertised) gasser prices!

    I have also gotten two diesels @ like model gasser prices. The first one I paid a $236 premium, which as you know I sweated ;) That TDI model is worth app $1,300 more than gas model.

    All signs point to advantage & bullish diesels!

    My take? Those are some of the real reasons why they are in the gun sights in the jihad against diesels!
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    I don't get comparing the 1.4 gasser to a 1.4 TDI. The 1.4 TDI will have much worse performance (2015 TDI has worse performance than the 1.4 gasser). Stacking the deck by ignoring performance?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2015
    On a slow diesel news day, received the 3.0 L VW "diesel gate" ltr. VW does NOT claim even inadvertent responsibility for emissions "software".

    I hope this means another $ 500 to $1000 gift card & $500 to 1,000 dealer credit scenario& free 3 yr/36,000 miles road assis ! A fair buyback would make cpmd: depreciation almost silly! I am almost starting to regret buying the MB instead of another Touareg TDI! :D
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2015
    It works for me , does that work for you? :D

    Truthfully, the 2016 TP's real world mpg does not seem to be much different then the 12/13 year old 2004 T Prius' (43/44 mpg), EPA 60 c/50 h mpg. Even Prius had to add more power!

    Trust me, I did NOT write this, I only read the tea leaves (as a consumer) and then apply logic/s. I am neither a gasser, gas hybrid, EV, etc., hater! https://www.yahoo.com/autos/switching-world-electric-vehicles-way-longer-think-120000522.html

    So does one know why people keep their gasser cars 11/12 years? They even complain about a diesel premium that in most cases will save them monies! Easy, because new cars are ALREADY WAY too expensive!!! Even with record high new car 2015 sales projected @ over 17.5M: USED car sales are even higher! Funny, used gas hybrid, EV sales are not good @ all!?

    So they want to make EV even more so expensive$$$ ! if so, then I'd say that this article is wildly optimistic ! If you believe the articles about 2/3 rds of Tesla's having the statistical probability of drive train (EV) failure @ 60,000 miles. Oh man !
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    texases said:

    I don't get comparing the 1.4 gasser to a 1.4 TDI. The 1.4 TDI will have much worse performance (2015 TDI has worse performance than the 1.4 gasser). Stacking the deck by ignoring performance?

    I would imagine what you consider performance and what I consider performance are miles apart. I want my car to cruise at 80 MPH across TX, up and down hills without shifting to a lower gear. I don't think the lousy torque of the 1.4L gas Jetta can do that. I know the Subaru was a screamer up long hills. And it was 2.5L with more HP. Heck my 4.7L Toyota V8 gasser was a slug compared to my V6 TDI. The Automakers have a LONG way to go to catch up with diesel for driveability and mileage. Probably not in my lifetime. I'll stick with diesel till they pry my cold dead fingers from the steering wheel.
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    edited December 2015
    If diesel cars stop charging extra premium over a similar model gasser of equivalent engines, then it will be worth buying them and will give gassers a tough competition . 

    Paying 5-8 thousand premium over a gasser will never recover the costs . 
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    carboy21 said:

    stever said:

    "Given the negligible difference in fuel costs, the major bump in purchase cost, and the slight sacrifice in performance, it's hard to make a case for the diesel vs. the 1.4T."

    Does the Volkswagen Jetta 1.4T Render the Diesel Engine Pointless? (Consumer Reports)

    If the gas prices remain at this level forever then diesels and hybrids will die a slow death.

    Question is will it ?

    Hybrids pollute the world with Lithium in someone else's back yard.
    Speaking of pollution, it seems that the global warming folks are attempting to make pollution and climate change synonymous. Another deception that many low info people will fall for.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2015
    Looking at the glut of oil and the low price of gas, diesel tankers turning around in mid-ocean, it's pretty clear that ExxonMobile is full of low information leaders. (gcaptain.com, houstonchronicle.com). :p
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    What's a 'low information leader'?

    That shipping info is right in line with @ruking1 's comments that we're in for a glut of diesel.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    texases said:

    What's a 'low information leader'?.

    John Kerry?

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2015
    Snowboarding in his 70s? That guy is brilliant. B):D

    How about we stick to diesel talk eh?
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    OK boss. Just couldn't resist. ;)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

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