Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Indeed because diesel has far more areas where stocks can come FROM, in addition to less consumption per gal: (33 mpg vs 20 mpg= 65% more) gasoline consumption is far more, than even far more!
Again this gets back to the refinery ratios of a barrel of oil: (EIA.gov) gasoline 19 gals/ ULSD 12 gals. So if 19 gals of gasoline are produced & used from a barrel of oil & if 12 gals of ULSD is not consumed, by a diesel car for example., where do the anti diesel folks think that it goes?
So for example: 20 mpg versus 33 mpg, using the refinery output of 19 gal gasoline /12 gals, ULSD uses LESS fuel & goes MORE miles (380 miles vs 396 miles) So, ...for 1 barrel of oil, a gasoline and diesel cars can go 776 miles. It will take TWO (2) barrels plus of oil for a gasoline car to go THE SAME (776 miles) so now it's easy to see why EU is more than 50% diesel/gasoline! The diesel/gasoline ratio consumes WAY LESS barrels of oil!
ULSD can also be produced from natural gas, & a plethora of recycle process waste steams. This decreases further the demand for barrels of oil. It also puts to work huge huge huge volumes of natural gas that is normally flared off in oil production processes.
So the huge question that the environ cons really want you to stay off of: why our US market consumption is more like 95% plus gasoline engines? A 50/50 gasoline/ULSD would literally & figuratively decimate barrels of oil consumption by @ least half, & for even more miles! Keep in mind the eco cons defacto are saying burning far more is BETTER than burning far less!
Am I missing something here, or is this just nonsense? The “scandal vehicles” cannot be sold, period. That renders the above nonsense to be …, well, complete nonsense.
Right now the buyback option are $12,975. The option to keep the 2009 Jetta TDI will be $5,100 & two, tbd amounts. Emissions TBD fixes with 120,000 miles emissions warranty. round out this option.
Of course, the dealer is going to get somewhere between $1-2 million for the inconvenience..
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!
MODERATOR
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Diesel cars will remain part of the mix, currently @ 3 to 5% of the PVF. In 2014 that was 274.8 M.
The refining of a barrel of crude (42 gals) yields ULSD 12 gal , gasoline 19 gals., per EPA.gov info. Very clean ULSD can be refined from many sources: like coal, & natural gas.
But at the moment, there is a HUGE glut of (refined & stored) gasoline! I can't wait till the prices fall past $1.99! The local prices are $2.65 ULSD, $2.67 RUG.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!
MODERATOR
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
And even if they do agree, there's a huge amount of extra oil in storage. Price increases will be slow to come, is my guess.
Re OPEC, I bet the idle frackers are talking to their bankers already.
[edit] Not only that, but 2.4 billion bbls of oil were just discovered off Alaska. It's boom times again baby.
Prices we paid in Oregon and Washington really weren't much different than Alaska pricing. We may have paid as much as $0.30 less per gallon in some places, but paid the same as Alaska (or more) in others.
TMI or perhaps more instructive might be "local" refineries.
On other related interests the " gas" might be leaking out? http://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-auto-sales-fall-september-134101112.html
The following are purely my ?'s & conjectures.
The EPA/CARB directed buybacks are based on 475,000 (US market, ballpark affected) TDI's. EPA/CARB sets goals of 85% buyback (403,750). There are literally zero, zip, nada information, articles, words from VW on what will happen to the buybacks.
What will (the collective) THEY do with the buybacks? The most logical actions seems to be slap on the various TBD emissions recalls. Offer them then for resale.
Shooting them in the (diesel) head, then sending them to the bone yard will be 12 years to 25 years AVOIDABLE environmental disaster ! This is not even to mention the utter waste of $$'s, etc.,etc.
If the EPA/CARB buyback goals are realized; on app 403,750 units, the various governments, government agencies will NOT receive the plethora of monies: title, retitle fees, sales taxation, registration , smog test revenues, and probably a whole lot of other things that I'm probably missing.
Recall that fully 6.87 M (50% of the 5% diesels, 2014 274.8 M) of the PVF are diesel "light trucks"
Still not a peep on how EPA/CARB-VW intends to settle affected VW Touareg TDI's! It (mine) would be another KEEPER, unless the settlement terms are significantly better (monies & % wise) than the 2.0 L TDI's "steal" back.
So for example, The VW (gun to the head offer) is NOT an unreasonable offer (2009) IF one were planning/wanted to buy a new/used car this year or @ the settlement date, ...anyway. Essentially, (2009) one gets $5,100 emissions penalties & TBD amounts, OVER KBB @ 9/2015.
The monies in (to be) both cases do NOT address the reason/s why either to both cars were bought: to solve (my) transportation tasks.
In the "macro" of things: natural gas prices ? http://www.wsj.com/articles/what-natural-gas-prices-are-telling-us-1475685957 Natural gas auto products make all the sense in the world, especially for a pre-calculated route.
For the foreseeable future and hopefully the life cycle of the product, I'm glad for a natural gas dryer!
No gasoline, E85, ethanol, hybrid, EV or etc., etc., joy? http://m.fleetowner.com/blog/big-rigs-big-costs
New Big Rig 2017 sales might hit a record low, from a 2016 29% decline. The 2016 sales is projected@ 230,000 units. http://www.wsj.com/articles/truck-orders-sink-in-september-1475686897
The stated EPA/CARB goals are 85% buyback (403,750 units), with 15% keep.
I'm guessing the real world keep percentage will be much higher. Essentially the affected TDI's are great cars.
It's not the buyers business & fault that one side was asleep @ the regulatory wheel with some lower to upper level VW types pulling the "Hogan's" antics. It's not our business also that now the Justice Department wants to scam huge amounts & %'s of money from VW corporate (nations/states/ unions/ pensions ownerships).
The "B" snit dramas are really between (DOJ) EPA/CARB with VW Corporate (& big $$ lawyers).
Cheap CA state USED EV's, speaking of prices dropping like the proverbial rocks? http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/cheap-electric-vehicles.html/
The STILL "unacceptable" issues are the EV's 13% loss (fuel) of equivalent mpg, after a period of a year to 3. & logistics. Suffice to say, incrementally greater electrical grid consumption keeps COAL all the more viable and for many more decades, if not generations. Electrical grid products, as well as solar & wind producers have HUGE HUGE HUGE inefficiencies!! So they would have us more dependent on greater known inefficiencies?
It is almost needless to say, because this is a diesel thread that; diesel haters would find 13% losses totally unacceptable. IF diesels lost 13% equivalent mpg in a year to three. In my affected cases, that would be: 40/34.8 mpg & 33/28.71 mpg. I'm unclear why these equivalent EV fuel losses are not the basis for successful lawsuits.
Might I jog memories of the 2004 Toyota Prius gas hybrid brouhaha. This brouhaha triggered with 14% or less mpg losses.
C&D posted this very detailed article. http://blog.caranddriver.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-vw-diesel-emissions-scandal/?ref=yfp
8 "gasoline" cars that get 40 (+) mpg. I'm not sure of the logic of why two diesels!?
We also changed the DSG filter & oil for app 60,000 miles per change (40,000 miles recommended) .
It now seems back on track. We used up all the VW GW cards.
No gas hybrid, EV or E85 joy for the PU "light" truck segment! ? Why? To state the obvious, NONE of those combinations moves the mpg needles near enough to the 2025 mpg goal. The segment is one of the most profitable. GM is ONE of the biggest world auto OEM's The projected 2016 sales = 17.5 M .
Even ISIS doesn't use a lot of American made PU trucks.
This article's reasoning might be another reason why EV might be dying. This is another advantage diesel, whomever steps into it.
Washington DC (city operations) biggie wiggies are almost always seen (on TV) in bigger than Tahoe sized gas vehicles !
A friend, I have known since childhood used to drive & body guard the SF police chief.. Getting him started on operations could take several hours!
Interesting was the avg price of a 2016 vehicle @ $34,000 vs (2004 Honda Civic) sub $12.5k ($12,364) a difference of $21,500/13 years=$1,654 per year.! Or 13.2% per year!! Inflation year to year was not even close to that!
Now keep in mind in 2004, the avg age of a Honda Civic owner was 44 years old. Since that time, we have hardly been through a "steam rolling" economy.
Interestingly enough, not that there were no gasser improvements (power or mpg) improvements, but TDI improvements were even better! The MB 2.1 L engine puts out 369# ft of torque. Depending on which (luxury) auto platform application can easily put out 36 to 50 mpg. Again, advantage diesel.
For one, the article talked of average price. Two, Hondas are known for good (gasser) mpg. Just looking at the latest fully.com, with current 2016 Civic mpgs being good indeed: mpg are not much better than my more historic (12/13 years/180,000 miles) 38 to 42 mpg, with torque virtually unchanged. All this is despite pretty "tweaky" upgrades, i.e., normally aspirated engine to turbo, etc. The verdict is still out on the CVT.
Well, then do! You've got the 2004 Civic #'s!
In SLOW diesel news, I just heard in Norway, app $10. ULSD per gal.
So one note, IF a Honda Pilot/Acura MDX gets 1 mpg less.(@20 to 22 mpg)...., it's almost a no-brainer trade off, IF a CUV fits one's lifestyle better. It may further explain (one reason) why a CUV TDI (one @ 33 mpg, another @ 36 mpg) might really occupy a sweet spot in the ongoing shift TO CUV's, from a serious DECLINE in the midsize sedan segment. This might also make a used MB "d" midsized sedan a great buy. Not that a new one isn't.
I think it's also telling that there are no to very few published articles about the composition of the passenger vehicle fleet, 75% large cars to " light "trucks, 25% "compact cars". Indeed so called "compact" cars have'nt really been "compact" for decades.
Here might be one reason why electric vehicles EV delivery vehicles have not caught on ? (VW) (union opposition) Why are delivery vans important: EV range=repetitive routes? It's funny how enviro cons never take on unions?....
..."DHL has a tailwind of sorts because electric vehicles only require about 10 percent of the manpower for assembly that conventional vehicles do because of the relative simplicity of an electric drivetrain."...
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/10/10/vw-angry-dhl-make-own-electric-delivery-van/?ref=yfp
& OUTSOURCING
UAW link for you.
Cheaper than CVT too!?
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091112073550AALoePY
The ranges (186 to 200 miles) for commutes (ours-15,000 miles per year) vs 2009 Jetta TDI (40 mpg-550 to 580 miles) , puts fueling @ 81/ 75 vs 28/26 stops. (188% more EV fuel stops)
EV logistics are not new habits that I would like to get into, not to mention the extra time & costs. Many folks on this thread used to complain that diesel fuel stations were like looking for a needle in a hay stack.
I'm not sure of the exact point when the EV 12.5% fuel range degradation kicks in. When it does, the metrics change from 81/75 to 92/86 fuel stops. This is not even counting the "environmental" conditions degradations. (winter, spring, summer, fall: desert to city, etc.)
Well this is moot, if the cities that I happen to travel to will let me put in solar arrays & batteries 2 @ $30,000 each = $60,000.
One of my South Tahoe, CA neighbors is a developer/building contractor. We were talking one day, I asked them about how much it would cost to put solar arrays on each of our properties.
I'm guessing the EV efforts has to start the China mining efforts in Afghanistan ?
50 MPH makes sense on that road during a snow storm; it is indefensible on a nice sunny dry day.
But you are another that has an idea of the environments that make up the 40 mpg- 09 Jetta TDI/36 mpg- 14 MB GLK 250 BT/33 mpg- 12 Touareg that I post.
"As good as that is" over like gasser competitors, it's a no brainer to do even better. Without getting into TMI : 5 mph under the speed limit (65 mph) is one answer.
But I really like "driving the torque" @ ... optimum engine rpm!!! To ...slightly above!!
The officer was not happy when I snapped photos of his motorcycle and the scene where I had pulled over after being handed a ticket. He seemed surprised I was questioning his authority or judgement in having issued me a ticket. If I knew the ticket was only going to be like $130 I'd have not bothered taking some photos. I'd love to pull the 85th percentile survey on that stretch of road; not sure if NV has the same speed trap protections as CA.
Anyway, after a couple of scowls and mean looks, a question or two, and a comment or two, he left me alone.
Other than governors putting up billboards outside of small towns in Georgia.
We are thinking of heading out to the west Sunday and get some camping in, not sure if we'll make it as far as NV or CA.