What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

ruking1

Yes, Mitsubishi was mentioned in that same article . I didn't link it because it did not have anything to do with diesel.

This link/article might help to clarify Mercedes-Benz's upcoming diesel line up. http://blog.caranddriver.com/doa-mercedes-benz-c-class-diesel-is-not-happening-in-the-u-s/?ref=yfp

This link/article is the introduction to the new 2017 2.0 L Mercedes-Benz diesel. http://blog.caranddriver.com/mercedes-benz-debuts-new-four-cylinder-diesel/

369#ft of torque is still the number to beat w/wo weight loss.

xwesx

texases said:

What all problems did you have with the Forester? 2011-on have the new engine, so less chance of head gasket problems and no timing belt. We're looking into a new Forester, surprisingly they have some MTs on the lot!

Well, we had a seal on the oil pump fail at about 65,000 miles, about three years ago. That caused a terrible loss of oil for a period of time while we were on our transcontinental trip in 2013, but were able to get into a dealer in Pasco, WA, on short notice to have the repair done. We put a new timing belt on it at this time due to the miles and oil on the belt. so, cost us ~$90.

At about 95,000 miles, we had new head gaskets put on it (was leaking oil externally on the originals, which started at about 30,000 miles, and the dealer finally admitted this was happening after several visits - this issue was why we bought the extended warranty in the first place). At the same time, they pulled the transmission and replaced the bearings and races in the center differential, as the races were disintegrating. This was the source of the whining noise we heard for years and years on the car, and it just kept getting worse. But, we were also having issues with fifth gear being difficult to engage, and they refused to find anything out of the ordinary on this. We're still having this problem, but otherwise the transmission is wonderful.

After the dealership quieted the transmission, we were able to hear other weird noises. My wife also said the car felt "unstable" over bumps. I did some searching and found that we might have bad wheel bearings in the rear. The dealer concurred and said that the RR was "really bad." Both rears were replaced.

Our first significant miles afterward was our trip in September. Between the tranny work and the return of the trip we put about 7,500 miles on the car. We also added 5.5 quarts of oil during this time! Prior to the head gasket work, the car was losing some oil due to the leak, but, prior to that, I would add a half-quart of oil between annual oil changes (10-15,000 miles). So, its use of oil now is concerning. No leaks at all; it is just drinking it up.

Total expense of these repairs ran about $5,000, but we only paid for two timing belts. Our warranty was $1,500, which I paid with Subaru Bucks, so it paid for itself over and over and over again.

xwesx

Ugh; made in China, is it? That doesn't sound promising, but we'll see when the time comes.

ruking1

xwesx said:

Ugh; made in China, is it? That doesn't sound promising, but we'll see when the time comes.

That was my take also.BUT.......

My dad (when he was alive) was a US GM fan; specifically Pontiac. I learned to drive on his 1960 V8 Pontiac Catalina. He got a Corvair as a knock around car. We measured distance in quarts of oil consumed. He was not a German or Japanese OEM fan. He was not amused when I bought my first car, a used 1970 Beetle.(10,500 miles) He joke once that the VW was Hitler's revenge. He was a World War II Navy veteran. He saw Pacific theater action.

But then on the other hand, he was not amused with the decline & demise of (Pontiac) American cars quality.

He watched me drive that VW all over CA. He was so concerned about possible VW break down, that he had me fly to Denver, Co (my first job assignment) he then later drove the VW to Denver, Colorado. He wasn't real impressed with the VW's power over 1,3000 miles. But I actually bought it for the mpg (@34 miles, poor student mentality) He was very dissatisfied with the Pontiac my mom drove with him to Denver, Co. and he drove on the return trip. After about four months, driving all around Colorado, Idaho, Arizona, Utah,etc. (6,00 miles) I took the 1970 VW the rest of the way (1,750 miles) to upstate New York.

gagrice

ruking1 said:

Yes, Mitsubishi was mentioned in that same article . I didn't link it because it did not have anything to do with diesel.

This link/article might help to clarify Mercedes-Benz's upcoming diesel line up. http://blog.caranddriver.com/doa-mercedes-benz-c-class-diesel-is-not-happening-in-the-u-s/?ref=yfp

This link/article is the introduction to the new 2017 2.0 L Mercedes-Benz diesel. http://blog.caranddriver.com/mercedes-benz-debuts-new-four-cylinder-diesel/

369#ft of torque is still the number to beat w/wo weight loss.

Well It is good to see MB is still committed to diesel engines for a while. With Germany thinking they can eliminate all internal combustion vehicles over the next 13 years. If we end up in Hilo, Kona does have a MB dealership. VW is missing on the Big Island, so the buy back will not hurt my feelings.

gagrice

So far I think the Chinese Equinox will just be for China.

So when will it arrive at dealers?
Soonish. GM said that the 2018 Equinox will go on sale in the U.S. in the first quarter of 2017, and that it will roll out to "approximately 115 additional global markets" later in 2017. Like the current model, the new Equinox will be built in Ontario, Canada.

http://www.fool.com/investing/2016/09/25/why-gm-is-offering-a-diesel-in-2018-chevy-equinox.aspx

ruking1

Thanks for the correction .i would have hoped for more torque! But the three engines options seemed pretty evenly matched.

fintail

I wonder if the now DOA diesel C is because partly because profit margins are larger on Stepfordian SUVs - not a lot of incentive federalizing a low margin car that sells plenty in gasser form when the profits will be a lot higher on the larger vehicle.

I don't think USDM Equinox are made in China, but at least at one time, it could be equipped with an aged "low feature" engine that was made in China. Didn't help brand equity, that's for sure.

My Pacific theater WW2 vet grandpa actually had a VW as a company car. A couple of Toyotas, too. He didn't hold hard feelings, he liked reliability (and those cars didn't dissolve in Seattle as they did in other areas).

gagrice

When I was looking and test drove the ML 350 bluetec and GLK diesel, the dealer told me that every GL and R diesel he gets his hands on sell above MSRP. They dropped the R350 Bluetec in 2012. There were a few floating around still in 2013 when we were looking. There was one at the Resort we stayed at in Cottage Grove, OR. The lady loves it. Just her and her poodle were traveling in it.

xwesx

Equinox estimated at 40 mpg highway for the diesel. That's certainly tempting. Hopefully there will be other changes in the market that will expand diesel availability in the next few years.

This caught my eye (for Forester replacement) a bit ago, but my wife is not digging it ("Are you serious? An Audi?!"). LOL

I'm interested to see Subaru's response (if any) with their MY19 redesign of the Forester. If it isn't stellar, it's probably out (for me). I'm comfortable with our '10 being our main for another three years.

fintail

A 3/4 year old Audi already at 70K, have fun with that. Maybe 2 dealers in all of AK?

R diesel is a rare bird indeed, along with the big GL diesel. I suspect they will be uncommon on used lots for some time.

ruking1

Back in the day, a (70,000 miles) 3/4 year old car with 17,500 to 23,333 miles per year would raise eyebrows.

Fast forward to today, if it has been well treated and well settled, then I would have no problems with putting 10 years of miles (245,000 to 305,663) on it.

Now for me one major thing about keeping any car, (that long) garage it! Keeping it clean.is next on the hit parade. Put it on some battery trickle charge routine. These three items, of course are really not "diesel" related. With those kinds of miles/year, that would be once per year OCI's. Following a strict or relaxed maintenance scheduled is #5 . @ # 6, fixing items when the evitable items wear down or break. One "diesel related item comes to mind, 5 to 7.5 gallons of DEF.

So if there are any folks out there who think going to a higher % PVF diesels that get 33% to 64% better mpg than gassers is bad, with even glacial improvements in the gasser mpg PVF, this article should make one think again!? http://www.wsj.com/articles/oil-companies-shift-exploration-tactics-curb-spending-1477474206 One thinks the Middle East is unstable now?

I certainly would enjoy/welcome year to year less than $1.99 per gal ULSD prices! 36 mpg @ 15,000 miles = 417 gals per year, would put commuting @ $69. per mo.

stever

Light-Duty Diesel Engines Slow to Return to Showrooms in Wake of Emissions Scandal, May Never Fully Recover

Michaell

fintail said:

A 3/4 year old Audi already at 70K, have fun with that. Maybe 2 dealers in all of AK?

R diesel is a rare bird indeed, along with the big GL diesel. I suspect they will be uncommon on used lots for some time.

The parents of my neighbors across the street have a Bluetec GL.

ruking1

An article written by the sites name sake: his self!

In light of "Hogan's Heros" an old Hollywood TV show, I found this almost hilarious : (then VEE send in Schultz )

..."Volkswagen decided it could literally drive around the requirement by burying cheat codes in its diesel engine control software. The test patterns used in lab testing are very strictly defined, and that made it possible for someone to craft software that would only turn on the NOx control system when someone dressed in a lab coat was looking.

No one expected such a brazen tactic from a major auto manufacturer, and the EPA knows it can't let this happen again. According to Automotive News, "EPA officials have said little publicly about the enhanced testing, saying only that vehicles would be kept longer and tested in unpredictable ways." "...

Ah trust... BUT (no) verify!! ??

It is particularly telling that the EPA/CARB will STILL not real world test any to all GASSERS also and publish actual N0x figures! . To me, that speaks volumes on how endemically flawed the system was, is, will remain. No doubt those responsible for closing the gates after the horses have long since escaped will face the consequences,... steep PROMOTIONS?

Being as how the article comes out of Santa Monica, CA, the LA county local "smog" gov agency (in Diamond Bar, CA, aka feels like 41 miles away) can confirm the statistics that N0x standards are far exceeded by fed,state EXEMPTIONS ALONE !!!! When you just add in gasser N0x...So really don't take my word for it! Again they can totally remove all diesels in the PVF and they won't even be able to measure the real world difference !!

It's a bit like gun control in Chicago. They have some of the STRICTEST gun control laws, but the highest gun murder rates. They don't capture, hold & punish the criminals that use guns in commission of the "alleged" crimes???? People in the places where this alledged crimes are committed know what's going on. Yet everybody pulls a " Sergeant Schultz " It's a very environmentally friendly catch & release policy & procedure! No doubt the policies & procedures are taken from fly fishing for trout ! Not that I even want to suggest criminality in smog levels in LA County, CA

fintail

I wouldn't worry about the engine, but on an Audi, the other bits might cause concern. Audi was so unreliable once that it has been improving every year, but that Q7 is an old design now, I think you'd be rolling the dice with it as it miled up. But if it was super cheap, might be worth a gamble. I'd probably gamble on that Bluetec GL first, but I think it might be hard finding a nice one for sale.

I suspect the VW cheaters were the excuse that unashamed activist greenie suits at the EPA et al needed to rake diesel over the coals, while of course, ignoring gassers, and the indirect pollution of hybrids/EVs. It's personal for that group.

ruking1 said:

Back in the day, a (70,000 miles) 3/4 year old car with 17,500 to 23,333 miles per year would raise eyebrows.

Fast forward to today, if it has been well treated and well settled, then I would have no problems with putting 10 years of miles (245,000 to 305,663) on it.

ruking1

As you probably would agree, that has been one of my points all along: diesels are fairly bulletproof! "Bits" are as you say "bits" (some more/less reliable/durable than others) Euro brand OEM's don't help themselves by intergrating even far shorter shelf life "bits"/ stuff, probably sent to the lowest bidder for execution. Put together a crap load of stuff... gee, I can hardly fathom why reliability & durability are issues.

Another undeniable structural point: 19 gas Regular/ Premium gasoline & 13 gals ULSD are produced from a barrel of oil.

Eco Cons in "the conquistador take no prisoners" style of religious conversion to EV, refuse to answer or deal with the barrel of oil 19/13 ratio! They also refuse to deal with the "unsustainable over consumption" of oil due to a lack of low diesel PVF %'s. They also also refuse to deal with a modern society without plastics (derived from... oil). Of course, the more than wasteful electrical grid is totally clean? As Germany is finding out, with a demand for more electricity it creates huge new demands for ... COAL!!!

Another minor, but actually very major point: diesel can be had from many many other sources other than direct drilling in weird places (pumps up prices unnecessarily) for oil, then BULK refining. Indeed I posted a way while back that diesel fuel can be "chemical constructed " in a warehouse with access to natural gas, which is common in these here parts. If one did the same with gasoline, it would only be courting disaster!! ( gotta love that oil pumping derrick I saw in a McDee's (Fresno? CA) parking lot! )

Governments themselves create HUGE %'s of fuel demand & subsequent waste! They also craft many of the business regulations. The products actually make this huge (government) wastefulness even bigger & ripple further, faster & far longer beyond governments.

Not much new for VW "diesel-gate". But this latest article clears up some of the finer points. http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/business/2016/10/26/what-vw-owners-can-expect-from-the-settlement.html?ref=yfp

So for example, for the 2009 (-2014), it involves changes to the hardware. Right now there are no real deadlines for the fix, even with Sep 2018 decision deadline. There are no approvals by EPA, CARB, US Federal Court. Then, I'm guessing the parts needed for the TBD approved fixes need longer term testing. The parts individually need smog numbers. They are probably not even built, let alone assembled.

Then, if they decide to install @ central locations, on some assembly line,... somewhere, the installers will need training. The buildings will need approvals. Then they will need a soft launch opening. Who knows how long it will take to get the bugs out. Then VW will have to mock up a number of test mules so that the customers can get an idea what the change will feel like. I'm going to need a VW provided loaner car, minimum of three days: 1 day to, 1 day install/test, 1 day back to customer. Sep 2019 sounds wildly optimistic !

xwesx

fintail said:

I wouldn't worry about the engine, but on an Audi, the other bits might cause concern. Audi was so unreliable once that it has been improving every year, but that Q7 is an old design now, I think you'd be rolling the dice with it as it miled up. But if it was super cheap, might be worth a gamble. I'd probably gamble on that Bluetec GL first, but I think it might be hard finding a nice one for sale.

I suspect the VW cheaters were the excuse that unashamed activist greenie suits at the EPA et al needed to rake diesel over the coals, while of course, ignoring gassers, and the indirect pollution of hybrids/EVs. It's personal for that group.

I don't disagree with you on that, fin. When it comes to used cars, I am generally more comfortable with a lot of miles per year than with very few (assuming the vehicle is out of warranty in either case). The reason is that you can generally tell how a high-mileage car was used by the level of interior wear (e.g., frequent long trips or frequent short ones make a big difference on the level of driver seat wear), and miles depreciates a newer car faster than any other single factor.

This one looks like it saw a decent number of miles per trip, and it is about $10K cheaper than the same vehicle with half the miles. Half the miles is about 35,000.... that's not many (about two years' worth for me), so I would rather save the money than the miles in a case like this.

There are a surprising number of VW family products here in Fairbanks, and the only dealership in the state (as far as I know) is in Anchorage. There are some good independents here, though, for when you need that sort of thing.

gagrice

Fintail: I'd probably gamble on that Bluetec GL first, but I think it might be hard finding a nice one for sale.

Around 2009 I test drove a slightly used 2007 GL320 CDI. It had 12,000 miles and was like new. Belonged to a fellow from Oregon that was down visiting family. If memory serves he wanted above dealer price for it. But it was nice. He claimed 27 MPG on the hwy. His plan was to return to Oregon and buy the newer model. I think at the time you could only buy used diesels here.

Several 3-6 year old GL350 Bluetecs out there. About half the cost of a new one. Some have low miles under 30k.

ruking1

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2016/10/25/auto-braking-systems-are-being-confounded-by-car-washes/?ref=yfp#3b21da8b1450

Braking systems triggered by car wash et al? I may have an outlier attitude about this, but I like my cars relatively free of the "gee wiz" stuff!

In one early concession, the 09 VW Jetta TDI had heated sits, no extra option charge. (normally $500.with other OEM's)

houdini1

ruking1 said:

gagrice said:

ruking: I pay 24 cents per kWh, in NO CA.. I'm sure no eco con sees the massive % profit here!?

Lucky you. on my latest bill the first 393 KWH were at 19 cents. From there on up it was 39 cents per KWH. We suffer in the heat to keep our bill from going into the stratosphere. You have cheap alternative with the Geysers thermal generators. We are stuck paying for W&S farms that only work part of the time. So we need NG backup generators also running. This guy has found the best way to beat the system. If it was only diesel.

OMG! As I scrolled down to see the picture, (sorry hosts) my visceral reaction was it's an odd house! I'm glad I wasn't sipping coffee, as I scrolled further & saw it built into a Prius!!!

The (odd house) picture reminded me of old upstate New York odd houses. (never thought I'd be waxing about the old days) Do organizations like the hysterical society preserve houses like that , for hysterical value of course?

He probably has that "camping option" on the Prius. Heats and cools his house overnight with the Prius battery.

houdini1

ruking1 said:

As you probably would agree, that has been one of my points all along: diesels are fairly bulletproof! "Bits" are as you say "bits" (some more/less reliable/durable than others) Euro brand OEM's don't help themselves by intergrating even far shorter shelf life "bits"/ stuff, probably sent to the lowest bidder for execution. Put together a crap load of stuff... gee, I can hardly fathom why reliability & durability are issues.

Another undeniable structural point: 19 gas Regular/ Premium gasoline & 13 gals ULSD are produced from a barrel of oil.

Eco Cons in "the conquistador take no prisoners" style of religious conversion to EV, refuse to answer or deal with the barrel of oil 19/13 ratio! They also refuse to deal with the "unsustainable over consumption" of oil due to a lack of low diesel PVF %'s. They also also refuse to deal with a modern society without plastics (derived from... oil). Of course, the more than wasteful electrical grid is totally clean? As Germany is finding out, with a demand for more electricity it creates huge new demands for ... COAL!!!

Another minor, but actually very major point: diesel can be had from many many other sources other than direct drilling in weird places (pumps up prices unnecessarily) for oil, then BULK refining. Indeed I posted a way while back that diesel fuel can be "chemical constructed " in a warehouse with access to natural gas, which is common in these here parts. If one did the same with gasoline, it would only be courting disaster!! ( gotta love that oil pumping derrick I saw in a McDee's (Fresno? CA) parking lot! )

Governments themselves create HUGE %'s of fuel demand & subsequent waste! They also craft many of the business regulations. The products actually make this huge (government) wastefulness even bigger & ripple further, faster & far longer beyond governments.

Not much new for VW "diesel-gate". But this latest article clears up some of the finer points. http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/business/2016/10/26/what-vw-owners-can-expect-from-the-settlement.html?ref=yfp

So for example, for the 2009 (-2014), it involves changes to the hardware. Right now there are no real deadlines for the fix, even with Sep 2018 decision deadline. There are no approvals by EPA, CARB, US Federal Court. Then, I'm guessing the parts needed for the TBD approved fixes need longer term testing. The parts individually need smog numbers. They are probably not even built, let alone assembled.

Then, if they decide to install @ central locations, on some assembly line,... somewhere, the installers will need training. The buildings will need approvals. Then they will need a soft launch opening. Who knows how long it will take to get the bugs out. Then VW will have to mock up a number of test mules so that the customers can get an idea what the change will feel like. I'm going to need a VW provided loaner car, minimum of three days: 1 day to, 1 day install/test, 1 day back to customer. Sep 2019 sounds wildly optimistic !

Speaking of "bits" causing problems, I was one of the 9 or 10 idiots who actually bought a brand new 1987 Sterling. Beautiful car, and drove just fine. After all, Acura Legend engine, suspension, transmission, etc. Got a huge discount, MSRP was around $20,000. and I paid $15,000. What could go wrong....well almost everything except the engine, suspension, and transmission. AC stopped working on way home from dealer, and never worked right, interior lights would come on spontaneously while parked overnight in garage, killing the battery, interior light would come on while driving and couldn't turn them off, headlights worked part time. radio conked out. All 4 power windows quit working one at a time. In short, it must have been hand wired by mentally challenged chimpanzees. No one at the dealer had a clue about anything. Struggled with it for about a year and and half, then MB was gracious enough to take the thing in on a trade. I still feel a little guilty about that.

texases

Yes, while a diesel's block/pistons/etc. are usually heavy duty, the added 'bits' are now easily as complex as most gassers, if not more so. I looked at a Ford pickup with a diesel, it looked like the inside of the space shuttle under the hood! With all the tubing for the turbo and hoses for the pollution controls I could not see anything that looked like an actual engine.

fintail

To think, that thing was probably off the road by the turn of the century, while your old 240D is probably still on the road somewhere

houdini1 said:

Speaking of "bits" causing problems, I was one of the 9 or 10 idiots who actually bought a brand new 1987 Sterling. Beautiful car, and drove just fine. After all, Acura Legend engine, suspension, transmission, etc. Got a huge discount, MSRP was around $20,000. and I paid $15,000. What could go wrong....well almost everything except the engine, suspension, and transmission. AC stopped working on way home from dealer, and never worked right, interior lights would come on spontaneously while parked overnight in garage, killing the battery, interior light would come on while driving and couldn't turn them off, headlights worked part time. radio conked out. All 4 power windows quit working one at a time. In short, it must have been hand wired by mentally challenged chimpanzees. No one at the dealer had a clue about anything. Struggled with it for about a year and and half, then MB was gracious enough to take the thing in on a trade. I still feel a little guilty about that.

fintail

Good points about the mileage. If you're going to mile it up and use it up, then why not. I just have reservations about how it might age in the long term. One probably can't get an aftermarket warranty on a rig like that, so you might end up paying a few visits to those indy shops

xwesx said:

<
I don't disagree with you on that, fin. When it comes to used cars, I am generally more comfortable with a lot of miles per year than with very few (assuming the vehicle is out of warranty in either case). The reason is that you can generally tell how a high-mileage car was used by the level of interior wear (e.g., frequent long trips or frequent short ones make a big difference on the level of driver seat wear), and miles depreciates a newer car faster than any other single factor.

This one looks like it saw a decent number of miles per trip, and it is about $10K cheaper than the same vehicle with half the miles. Half the miles is about 35,000.... that's not many (about two years' worth for me), so I would rather save the money than the miles in a case like this.

There are a surprising number of VW family products here in Fairbanks, and the only dealership in the state (as far as I know) is in Anchorage. There are some good independents here, though, for when you need that sort of thing.

fintail

One of the late run ones might be something to pick up and hold for awhile.

gagrice said:

Around 2009 I test drove a slightly used 2007 GL320 CDI. It had 12,000 miles and was like new. Belonged to a fellow from Oregon that was down visiting family. If memory serves he wanted above dealer price for it. But it was nice. He claimed 27 MPG on the hwy. His plan was to return to Oregon and buy the newer model. I think at the time you could only buy used diesels here.

Several 3-6 year old GL350 Bluetecs out there. About half the cost of a new one. Some have low miles under 30k.

houdini1

fintail said:

To think, that thing was probably off the road by the turn of the century, while your old 240D is probably still on the road somewhere

houdini1 said:

Speaking of "bits" causing problems, I was one of the 9 or 10 idiots who actually bought a brand new 1987 Sterling. Beautiful car, and drove just fine. After all, Acura Legend engine, suspension, transmission, etc. Got a huge discount, MSRP was around $20,000. and I paid $15,000. What could go wrong....well almost everything except the engine, suspension, and transmission. AC stopped working on way home from dealer, and never worked right, interior lights would come on spontaneously while parked overnight in garage, killing the battery, interior light would come on while driving and couldn't turn them off, headlights worked part time. radio conked out. All 4 power windows quit working one at a time. In short, it must have been hand wired by mentally challenged chimpanzees. No one at the dealer had a clue about anything. Struggled with it for about a year and and half, then MB was gracious enough to take the thing in on a trade. I still feel a little guilty about that.

That 240D was so beautifully simple, it probably is still out there. I traded the Sterling on a 190E and kept it for 5 years. Good car.

fintail

The 190 might still be out there too - they are also pretty simple, and have probably reached their junkyard apex. Cars like the 240D will outlast us all, with immense build quality and internals that can be fixed anywhere. Those cars built the diesel legend.

houdini1 said:

That 240D was so beautifully simple, it probably is still out there. I traded the Sterling on a 190E and kept it for 5 years. Good car.

kyfdx

The guy driving the 240D after 35 years? Just now getting up to 60 MPH.

texases

The 240D is like the cockroach - nothing can kill it! And I've noticed that, just like the cockroach coming out at night, old MB diesels come out with high gas prices. When prices hit $4/gallon I was surprised at all the old 240Ds and 300Ds on the road. Now, not so many.

gagrice

If VW is generous in their buy back of the Touareg, I would consider a late enough model GL350 Bluetec that still was under warranty. I like the extra room, and the V6 diesel is more than enough power.

ruking1

Sort of TDI related? VW vs Toyota , aka GM is probably in 3rd place? http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/10/27/volkswagen-and-toyota-in-neck-and-neck-race-for-global-top-spot/?utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=partner&utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix&yptr=yahoo&ref=yfp#155e31a2198e

I still really like the Porsche Cayenne/ VW Touareg platform. It's almost one of my best EVER ideal (midsized CUV) vehicles. It's hard for me to imagine another oem besting the Porsche Cayenne/VW Touareg TDI's platform price/performance parameters.

I'm strongly in favor of the fix. IF the TDI "fix" is taken off the table, the full purchase price plus return is the only fair option. Further, I would be inclined to giving VW GASSERS another shot. But realistically, I'm still inclined to favor another diesel.

While the Volvo XC 90 has my interest, it's not a US market TDI.

xwesx

fintail said:

Good points about the mileage. If you're going to mile it up and use it up, then why not. I just have reservations about how it might age in the long term. One probably can't get an aftermarket warranty on a rig like that, so you might end up paying a few visits to those indy shops

Haha, probably right again! No budging from the wife on this, so likely just a fleeting fancy anyway. But, I sure could use another road trip right about now!

ruking1

I find the TDI's enhances longer distance driving , if one LIKES to drive longer distances. I'm not sure if this is true for anyone else.

fintail

Definitely. Also nice to be able to drive across the state on well under half a tank.

ruking1 said:

I find the TDI's enhances longer distance driving , if one LIKES to drive longer distances. I'm not sure if this is true for anyone else.

fintail

Hey, it could be the good one and rack up miles like a Landcruiser. It'd be comfy too. And maybe it wouldn't be much more troublesome than those head gasket era Subarus. Sell her on it, you need another car, right?

xwesx said:

Haha, probably right again! No budging from the wife on this, so likely just a fleeting fancy anyway. But, I sure could use another road trip right about now!

stever

Here you go @xwesx - but tell your wife to make up her mind soon, we already have the guest room booked for 5 weeks between now and New Years.

stever

"Last March, before the worst of the diesel scandal had hit, Audi said it would pull its planned A4 TDI diesel sedan from the lineup even before it was released.

Now Mercedes-Benz is following suit with its planned C300d 4Matic sedan, which won't be sold in the U.S. after all."

Diesel cars dwindle as Mercedes-Benz C300d is pulled from U.S. before launch (greencarreports.com)

ruking1

Until there's a little more water under this " diesel gate" bridge, OEMs will be reticent. That being true, one should give kudos to OEM's entering the current diesel market. All rate a serious look.

While I am seriously happy with the MB 2.1 L twin turbo Blue Tec engine, the new 2.0 L has some interesting new technological bits!

stever

It'll be interesting to see how long the consumer backlash lasts in the EU. (Financial Times)

hm, that may be a subscription only link - if it doesn't open, try searching for "Diesel sales fall to lowest in seven years after VW scandal".

ruking1

Hyundai's vantage point? http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2016/1027/Hyundai-targets-VW-diesel-buyback-owners-with-special-prices?ref=yfp

..."The Korean automaker Hyundai is quietly rolling out special pricing for VW diesel owners, according to CarsDirect.

To qualify for this "Friends & Family Plus" pricing—also known as the Hyundai Circle V-Plan—shoppers must own one of the qualifying Volkswagen or Audi 2.0-liter TDI models.".

gagrice

It is amazing how fast a company can lose a Billion with a little screwup. Take Samsung for example, one dud phone and they are on the rocks. I still love my Note 4 and cannot imagine trading for any other phone. You couldn't give me a stinking iPhone. That would be like getting stuck with a gas SUV for long trips.

Samsung’s Note 7 recall cost the company more than $5 billion, and it’s unclear whether the large amount of negative press — such as a Stephen Colbert skit — will have a lasting effect on sales.

Samsung not only issued a recall, but also had to send customers fireproof return boxes. That’s not a good look. The FAA banned the devices on flights and continues to announce that they’re not allowed during the boarding process. It’s a federal crime to bring one aboard. Samsung has serious image reworking to do, so I hope the company debuts something really impressive in 2017.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/27/13434250/samsung-note-7-s8-recall-design-rumor

fintail

The comments on that FT article help me lose faith in humanity. 10000 die every year in London from air quality LOLOLOL those guilted greenie Euro/Bridiots. They will deserve what they get. Of course these same people won't dare address commercial and shipping pollution, and believe that a few thousand less diesel cars will make a real world difference. Shameful that such people have so much power.

My Note 7 was the most impressive phone I've ever had. Sad that I had to return it.

xwesx

fintail said:

Hey, it could be the good one and rack up miles like a Landcruiser. It'd be comfy too. And maybe it wouldn't be much more troublesome than those head gasket era Subarus. Sell her on it, you need another car, right?

LOL fin; your expert facetiousness is truly in top form.

gagrice

I guess Dieselgate did not kill VW.

Volkswagen (OTCPK:VLKAY) made €2.3B in net profit in the third quarter after a massive loss a year ago over its emissions cheating scandal.

Brands such as Skoda, Bentley and Porsche managed to improve operating profit through increased sales and exchange rate effects.

VW also raised its full-year guidance for group revenue despite setting aside an additional €400M in Q3 relating to Dieselgate.

ruking1

Indeed! Wintercorn (CEO) vilified or not, was able to position VW C to close in on the "top" spot.

There are massive changes afoot!

It's just that we as consumer are normally focused on the car (gasser) offerings?!

This horse race seems to be closer than our current presidential race!

andres3

To answer the question raised by this thread's title, all it took was Diesel dropping to below regular unleaded gasoline per gallon in price in CA to make us pull the trigger on a TDI.

ruking1

Ethanol (E10, E15, E85) effect? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kelly-stone/the-ethanol-effect_b_12572800.html?ref=yfp

http://www.dptv.org/programs/documentaries/ethanol-effect/

ruking1

andres3 said:

To answer the question raised by this thread's title, all it took was Diesel dropping to below regular unleaded gasoline per gallon in price in CA to make us pull the trigger on a TDI.

BUT, more importantly, there are @ least 2 more ratio kickers in diesel's favor!

The same is absolutely true for like model MB's GLK's :

350: 22 mpg, PUG $2.89

250 BT: 36 mpg, ULSD $2.63 .

/18,000 miles per year =

818 gal PUG

500 gal ULSD

= 318 gal (63.6%) MORE (PU) GAS use!

@ above local prices = $2,364 - $1,315 = $ 1,049

gas is 79.8% more $$'s to go the SAME miles .

Third: People also have a very hard time understanding the barrel of oil (42 gals) refining ratio: 19 gals gasoline / 13 gals ULSD. It's really quite simple,. IF one wants to refine LESS oil, one has to have higher percentages of diesel's passenger vehicle fleet!

Fourth: diesel fuels can (simply) get a divorce from that barrel of oil refining ratio. For diesel you don't necessarily have to drill for oil!!!

Just so happens here is a clarion call article for: a RAMPAGE of ... DRILLING!
http://www.wsj.com/articles/exxon-mobil-profit-revenue-slide-again-1477657202

To wit, it is not only far easier to produce ULSD, there are far more raw/ finished product supply streams than gasoline!!

Through a very interesting quirkiness (which most people do not understand) are that E 85, E 15, E 10 are NOT fungible. To beat another dead horse, the $$'s costs are way higher that they have to be!!

Get the big rigs, garbage trucks, transit buses & on to abundant natural gas & 73% of the problem goes away! http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenkam/2016/10/27/why-t-boone-pickens-is-betting-on-natural-gas-vehicles/2/#77ab9b63724a

houdini1

kyfdx said:

The guy driving the 240D after 35 years? Just now getting up to 60 MPH.

Yeah, but it will cruise there all day !