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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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Fix it with the EPA/CARB approved modification (assuming there is one), and you can sell or send the car anywhere you want. If it isn't/can't be fixed, then it can't be sold anywhere.
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Really clear language that if VW files for bankruptcy, the entire settlement becomes due, immediately. (meaning, it can't be discharged via bankruptcy).
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But the bottom line: we shall see. My swag: continual export flows should EPA/CARB not grant approvals. If the EPA/CARB grand approvals, VW will have approximately 485,000 - "fix people" & lawsuit holdouts) used cars to sell. This would totally blow the reason for the original brouhaha in the first place.
The 2.0% to 2.5% market share is obviously important enough for VW to spend INXS of $16 B USD. This is not counting the $7 billion for the Chattanooga, Tennessee plant and the 1 billion to build the Atlas at the same place.
It needs to be pointed out that these tax credits are only good for people in the Upper Middle class. The $7500 tax credit has to be used in the year purchased. No carry over for those owing less than $7500 FIT. So you may be able to afford the cheaper EVs, just don't count on getting them as cheap as your rich neighbor.
You'll often hear that a credit is worth "up to" a certain amount. "Up to" is the critical modifier. The federal incentive is usually referred to as a flat $7,500 credit, but it's only worth $7,500 to someone whose tax bill at the end of the year is $7,500 or more. Let's say you buy a Nissan Leaf or other eligible vehicle and you owe $5,000 in income tax for a particular year. That's all the tax credit will be. Uncle Sam's not writing a refund check for the other $2,500. And an unused portion of the credit can't be applied against the following year's taxes.
http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/the-ins-and-outs-of-electric-vehicle-tax-credits.html
To me, the most telling is the LACK of participation of business people or corporations. I've already posted electrical utilities, & governments lack of participation!
Let's see, one needs a commute car, MSRP T Corolla @ $20,000/21,000, EV $37,500 w $7,500 IRS TC that most folk will probably not be able to use. I don't need my CPA's sneering @ me!
Here is https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/ gas/diesel % cost graphic. It's almost becoming a crime that they bury mpg equivalent (the cost per kilowatt hour, etc) into too much gobbledygook.
I read one article saying that the average mpg of the US PVF = 24.8 MPG
The paper said the device, which was not the same as the one which triggered last year's diesel emissions scandal at Audi parent Volkswagen, was also used in diesel and gasoline-powered cars in Europe."
U.S. regulator found another cheat device in Audi car - report (MSN)
The paper said the device, which was not the same as the one which triggered last year's diesel emissions scandal at Audi parent Volkswagen, was also used in diesel and gasoline-powered cars in Europe."
U.S. regulator found another cheat device in Audi car - report (MSN)
Ah, Audi /VW - VW/Audi, they're interchangeable, right? Aren't I right? If one German automaker will play electro-games, why wouldn't the udder one?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
It's easy to understand making the mistake 1,2,3 times, but making it 1,200,000 times total? And they got the US to tell that lie too ! ?
I just wanna stay outta cardoc's auto garage, and Kia has helped me ta do that. Not throwing stones at the German makes, in fact, they're ominous and 'uuuge.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
https://www.yahoo.com/news/wins-volkswagens-great-dieselgate-sweepstakes-213019291.html
What you want has been pretty much true for (my) the 2009 VW TDI, for 8 /9 years & 129,000 miles.
Unscheduled maintenance:
VW repaired the HPFP, free out of warranty. (towed VW Road Assist)
2 relay repairs, one paid by VW. (towed once VW Road Assist )
Scheduled maintenance:
Set of tires 110,000 miles
VW paid also for rear brake pads & rotors @ 129,000 miles.
I've done "normal but EXTENDED" scheduled maintenance. Some of the TMI was left out.
Other than 6.575 cents per mile, (cpmd:fuel, 40 mpg or 3,225 gal. @ current prices of $2.63 ULSD)
I'm waiting for events to unfold. Sep 1, 2018 is the last date. IF the fix is approved and real owners think the fix is good, and if I decide that we still want to keep the 2009, we will get approximately $5100 There'll also be a much smaller $ amount TBD. If that happens to be the case, I'm not losing the taxes already paid. I'm also not paying taxes for a new app $25,000 MSRP vehicle @ app $2,250.
@ current prices the $5100 should shoot us another 77,567 miles of/or 5.17 years of commuting. (15,000 miles per year)
If there is no approved fix by June 1, 2018, at least I'll eventually get $12,975.with 2016 GW & 2009 tax credit, it will have cost $39.38 a month (120 mo) to have owned.
Again @ current prices, the $12,975 should shoot us 170,204 miles. of/or 11.35 years of commuting (33/36 mpg=34.5 mpg 15,000 miles per year)
Life is good!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
"Volkswagen has reached Settlements involving 2.0-liter Volkswagen and Audi diesel vehicles with the United States Environmental Protection Agency (“EPA”), the California Attorney General, the California Air Resources Board (“CARB”), the Federal Trade Commission, and current vehicle owners/lessees and certain former vehicle owners/lessees in the United States.
Under the Settlements, Volkswagen has agreed to:
•Buy back, terminate leases or provide approved emissions modifications for nearly 475,000 2.0-liter TDI diesel cars in the United States;
•Provide cash payments to owners/lessees;
•Pay for environmental remediation; and
•Promote zero emissions vehicle technology."
Here's the VW site about the 2.0l settlement where the above was copied from.
But as you'd agree some situations can be some don't care to a couple of months to a couple of years off.
For some reason, politics I assume, the EPA and CARB have always hated diesel use in passenger cars. I don't believe it is environmentally based because they still hated what they thought was clean diesel. Now, since the "cheating scandal", it seems they are trying their best the rid the U.S. of diesel for good. And I might add they seem to be going overboard with excessive punishment for VW, and taking a lot of pleasure in doing so.
The EPA's mission should reducing pollution, and all the billions of dollars that will eventually change hands due to this fiasco will probably do nothing to do that.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Don't remember reading this part of the cover-up:
"Volkswagen engineers went so far as to concoct fake engineering data to try to explain a huge discrepancy between the readings in official laboratories and how much the cars polluted on the road, said Alberto Ayala, deputy executive officer of the California Air Resources Board, which did much of the detective work that led to Volkswagen’s exposure.
“They lied through their teeth,” Mr. Ayala said in an interview in California last month."
Volkswagen Emissions Scandal Inquiry Widens to Top Levels (NY Times)
Let's never forget, the wrath of these regulators isn't about pollution, it's about being fooled. Their ego was harmed, intelligence was insulted. There is and never will be such a thing as a legitimately zero emissions vehicle, no matter how high the hopes of those with guilty consciences.
And I bet a bicycle comes close to zero.
Most new bicycles sold here are made in treacherously offshored factories located in environmental criminal nations with conditions that would rightfully get people arrested in the western world. Then they are brought over on container ships that individually likely pollute more in a year than all of the cars in NM pollute in several years.
My wife's lungs aren't too political (maybe one leans left and one leans right?) but diesel exhaust is an asthma trigger for her.
Bet your wife would die quicker sitting behind your gas vehicle than my diesel Touareg. I think you have bought the hype. If you and your wife were able to drive around Los Angeles without her having an Asthma attack, the excess diesel from these VWs would not harm her in any way. Driving through LA on our return was like going through a brown haze. Not as bad as it was in the 1950s & 60s but still pretty bad. CARB is pretty much useless.
The asthma trigger was discovered when my wife did a traffic count for the highway department in Boise at a four way stop. She was counting bikes (didn't have to track whether they were vegan bikers or not). The diesel pickups got her.
Emotion or logic, diesels emit more particulates than gassers and particulates are bad for your lungs. (BBC)
Haven't bought the hype but have purchased a lot of inhalers.
Oh, looks like walkers like @fintail put out more emissions than bikers. (momentummag.com)
I have no doubt a good percentage of diesel PU trucks put out more PM than should be allowed. That is a big flaw in our emissions laws. It is quite simple to go with straight exhaust for two years and switch back for testing on 2007 and newer diesel trucks. They still just visually look at the exhaust. A fire breathing 6.6L Duramax with 400 HP 800 ft lb of torque will put out far more NOx & PM, than my little V6 Diesel. Or the 2.0L TDI that has got the EPA\CARB in a twit. I just find it disingenuous picking on VW diesels with the overwhelming number of diesel PU trucks not even looked at. My guess is less than 10% of those over powered PU trucks ever tow the 20,000 lb plus trailers they are rated for.
I'm also sure that the majority of folks (who are allergic) are more allergic to gasoline and/or other triggers. It's very seldom they are allergic to one specific thing.
I think comparing the diesel fumes from deplorable inbred coal rolling trucks in backwards areas of the PNW to modern small displacement diesel passenger cars is an out of control dumpster fire to oranges comparison.
The BBC link is more of an opinion piece to me, operating in that odd void that assumes gassers and hybrids/EVs emit unicorn burps. That rotting old island has a severe guilty conscience (maybe for never having paid for any of its sins while it brutalized others for centuries), and has a number of anti-diesel special interest groups, the types who no doubt believe an EV is "zero emissions" (sarcastic quotes). Lots of unanswered questions in that penance piece masquerading as an article.
"Or the 2.0L TDI that has got the EPA\CARB in a twit. I just find it disingenuous picking on VW diesels with the overwhelming number of diesel PU trucks not even looked at. "
Exactly, gagrice. And all of the smoky commercial vehicles that are ignored, as putting some kind of responsibility on the owner/driver is apparently a Marxist plot to steal wealth
Saying that gas is nastier than diesel is kind of like saying being bit by an alligator is worse than getting bit by a crocodile.
"Volkswagen and Audi management discussed the CO 2 defeat-device software in detail during a “Summer Drive” event in South Africa in the second half of February 2013, according to one person familiar with the situation and excerpts from the minutes of the meeting, which were reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.
According to the minutes, Axel Eiser, the head of Audi’s powertrain division, said, “the shifting program needs to be configured so that it runs at 100% on the treadmill but only 0.01% with the customer.”
This cheat affected both gassers and diesels.
Can't wait to see what creative ideas VW comes up with for faking battery life on their EVs.
So for example, does the "suspected" diesel allergy keep you off airplanes? Or away from airports? Do you avoid ship cruises?
Yet after generations of relentless & broad based "cheating" schemes on gasoline products, the PVF remains almost totally gasoline!
Gas hybrids do NOT decrease dependency on oil! Gas hybrids when incorporated on "light" trucks,@ most & under ideal conditions, post 1 mpg betterj & @ the most!
Good summary at one of the Lung Association pages. Diesel gets its own page, unlike gas - stuff in it shows up in some of the other categories, usually along with diesel.
I think all the EV automakers will be screwing the customers on that issue. Nissan admits their EV battery loses 20% shortly after it is new in hot climates. Or your 80 mile range is now 64 miles. The real issue is fully discharged to fully charge on Li-ion batteries is only 500 cycles. So they try to keep them topped off to avoid full discharge. I would rather just fill my tank with diesel when I pass 600 miles and not worry about running out of power somewhere not so pleasant.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100603_life-with-tesla-model-s-battery-degradation-update
My longer distance take: should EV have/get say a 600 miles plus (diesels) range is "hammering" the EV will further still decrease its range. One it would appear will have to drive "Gerdes like". So 20% of 600 miles is 120 miles. Needless to say that's a lot of miles to be short. I'm not sure about the technicality of this, I think it's long-term destructive (go as close to 600 miles) of ion lithium batteries.
My brain is a living sponge for that information, stever. Also want to know about hydrogen or water-powered vehicles. Oh, that's right. The inventors of alternative powertrains end up in concrete blocks deep under the water somewhere. Or, for some strange, unknown reason, these "great alternative powertrain ideas other than gas, diesel, all-electric or hybrid" just never quite pass all the necessary check-offs and hit production.
Cost? Oh, yeah. Elio Motors has been singing their tune for most of what seems like the entire 21st century, taking deposits and...building away on that tri-wheeler. :@
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
During the first? Clinton administration, a challenge was issued to all three US auto OEM's: GM, Ford, Chrysler. Toyota was miffed that it was not included. Each, as I recall was given $1 B to realized one to three? prototype/s & all paperwork. All three independently came up with diesels !! As is probably apparent, prototypes were put back on the shelf.
TESLA is killing a key benefit! http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-just-killed-one-biggest-143133877.html
They say each station is not profit center! The real question becomes did they receive tax credits for it? Do they receive non standard write downs?
Did you order one? I give him a 50% chance of delivering on his timeline. More than I give Musk delivering the Tesla 3 by the end of next year.
Elio wants to sell vehicles directly to consumers as Tesla does, but since he’s selling a vehicle that’s technically a motorcycle, the National Automobile Dealers Association hasn’t fired any shots, at least not yet.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/elio-motors-the-single-doored-84-mpg-three-wheeler-that-could/
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
The reality is I would probably rather have VW fix mine and give me a BIG wad of cash for any inconvenience. Along with a great extended warranty. 10 year 100k mile will do.
"For Teslas ordered after January 1, 2017, 400 kWh of free Supercharging credits (roughly 1,000 miles) will be included annually so that all owners can continue to enjoy free Supercharging during travel," Tesla said in a statement on Monday.
At my highest rate of 43 cents per KWH that is a whopping $172 perk. Not much on a car you just paid $100k plus for. The question, how much will they charge Tesla users going forward to use the Super Chargers? Just to stay on subject. That cost per mile is about 17 cents per mile. Or 32% more per mile than my life time cost of 11.8 cents per mile. Diesel will have to be somewhere close to $5 per gallon before the Tesla would be cheaper to drive in San Diego. And that would likely mean electricity would go up also.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Diesel tax today in CA is 63.09 cents per gallon. Or in my Touareg it adds about 2.3 cents per mile. If they add that to EVs it will push them close to twice as much per mile as my Touareg. And way more than double in Fintail's MB E diesel. You know with states looking at charging tax by the mile the EV will be on their radar. At least when they get established. Kind of like Tesla pulling the free juice from future buyers.