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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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VW Judge Reports Progress to Get More Diesel Cheats Off Road (Bloomberg)
The article by omission, indicates the 2012/2013 VW Touareg TDI's are not affected.!? So Yippee & Yahoo if that is true. I'll guess they were just trying to get into the ballpark . So a possible correction might be in order .
However, I've got a person at the local Mercedes-Benz dealer looking out for new to use diesels. He indicates no current dealer information on the 2017 MB GLC "d". The 2016 and 2017 GLC's are flying off the lot. They can not put many in inventory.
So, The following article might be very instructive. Perhaps VW needs to lose a lot of customers for the harder heads to wake up!?
VW has massive union & state ownership problems! Half the board votes are labor with two more wielded by the state of Lower Saxony. A company with 1.6% margins qtr to qtr on the core brand has deeper issues going forward !!! http://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-seeks-to-break-impasse-over-restructuring-plans-1478181861?mod=yahoo_hs&yptr=yahoo&ref=yfp
I noticed that as well. Though VW did give us the $1000 so have to assume they are identical vehicles. This little blurb has me concerned about making any software changes to fix whatever is not right. VW needs to extend the warranty to at least 100k additional miles if they make changes.
Software updates carried out by Volkswagen (VW) could inflict greater stress on engine components, Spiegel cited a member of staff at the Brussels-based Commission as saying.
"We need VW to guarantee, in a legally binding way and without any time limit, that the repairs will work and do not have any negative impact," a Commission official told Reuters on Monday.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-idUSKCN12S13Y?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews
PS
I think they don't want to buy back the more expensive vehicles. Kluging up the Software does not appeal to me.
So far, 25 percent of the 2-liter owners have registered to participate in the settlement. Eighty-five percent of those cars must be removed from U.S. roads or VW will face additional penalties.
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..."According to Green Car Reports, Volkswagen is legally permitted to do three things with the cars it buys back: "recycle" them and salvage parts for resale, export the cars for non-U.S. resale, or modify and resell them in the U.S. as used cars. What VW ends up doing depends on whether or not it can develop a fix for its emissions-cheating cars. In the U.S., a fix hasn't yet been approved, but in Europe, it's already recalling and repairing cars, thanks to the EU's more lenient emissions regulations"...
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/news/a31419/vw-buybacks-what-happens/?ref=yfp
But then on the other hand:
" VW's Cheating Diesels Won't Be U.S.-Emissions Compliant After Recall Fix" http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/news/a30021/vw-recall-fix-non-compliant/
It will be even longer for the "affected" 3.0 L TDI's!
It will be even longer IF EPA/CARB government agencies do NOT grant "fix" approvals, so call "fixes" : that radically changes the metrics. It would then convert the "option to do", (choose between buyback/fix) to: then, mandatory. Mandatory would then constitute a "taking". This issue would likely be tied up in court for a number of years. Long story short, more monies for those (not choosing buy backs) "taken from".
The real funny thing (de facto) is while older TDI's ( i.e.my 2003) meet older standards, the newer standards (2009) are probably tighter.
What would make this last even FAR longer would be for VW to do a "GM style" bankruptcy! So it's not like there is no history? It would also convert every $ dollar of settlement to pennies (.01 to .12) on each $ !
The real ironic part is that a VW bankruptcy would send shockwaves through Germany. This in turn affects the already unstable EU. In turn, it would affect the US. So the funny part is the US would probably wind up bailing out VW, (along with Qatar, VW sovereign stockholder ) Then, if they haven't figuire out by then these issues are total bs, the $ settlement will be FAR less! VW in the meantime would be free to continue pursuing being the number one car maker in the world !
I can't even make this stuff up!
Speaking of service. After my 40k mile service and wheel alignment, I noticed a faint clunk when taking off and coming to a stop. Also squeaky noises driving slow over uneven roads. So I scheduled an appointment for yesterday. Seems one of the camber bolts was loose. They re-aligned and torqued all suspension nuts. And now it is quiet again. They did shuttle us to a very good restaurant for breakfast and came to get us when we were finished. If you are ever in the Kearney Mesa area of San Diego give the Studio Diner a shot. Very reasonable compared to most San Diego restaurants.
If the cars are legal in the EU how can the US stop them from being shipped back there and sold?
The software allowing its diesel vehicles to evade emissions rules doesn't violate European law, according to VW (OTCPK:VLKAY), as the carmaker aims to toughen its legal defenses with a possible rise in compensation claims in its home region.
http://seekingalpha.com/news/3221141-vw-defeat-device-conforms-european-law
This is especially true, since the software used is not in violation of EU nor Mexican law. Get them assembled & "fixed" in Mexico. They know where else in the world market they can go.
If they can't get an EPA-approved fix, they can't sell them anywhere.
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•modify and resell them as used cars (if approved), with proper disclosure to the buyer
•export them for resale abroad
•render them inoperable and recycle them, or salvage them for parts that may be sold in the U.S. or exported"
Green Car Reports
IF VW sets it up correctly, they should not only be able to take the US market $15 B losses, then get the plethora of tax credits, losses etc, but downstream, make profits on the resale etc. of these 412,000 + USED cars. (85% of 485,000)
All the majors are probably lobbying furiously (giving money to green groups) to keep these cars off the road. New car sales are dipping and tons of nice lease returns are hitting the market every month. Used car prices are falling as it is without a dump of 400,000 VWs hitting the market.
VW should figure out a way to donate them to people who need transportation to get to a job. Then hire those same folks to dismantle the ones that are too expensive to fix.
According to language in the agreement signed on October 25 by federal judge Charles Breyer, VW may legally do several different things with the bought-back diesel cars:
1. modify and resell them as used cars (if approved), with proper disclosure to the buyer
2. export them for resale abroad
3. render them inoperable and recycle them, or salvage them for parts that may be sold in the U.S. or exported
The so-called agreement/s actually leaves VW to allow for the "waiting for "approved fixes". According to an article I have read, VW also has three years to affect the buybacks, given unknown start dates. To me, that would indicate the September 2018 decision date might in fact be soft. It could be more like 2019/2020.
Indications are EPA/CARB are inclined to give VW priorities (under low) for "approved fixes." They then can put them through onerous tests. It's sort of the bureaucratic concept: initially disapproved, resubmit every 90 days for (more) final disapprovals.
So VW can have the cars waiting in lots in Mexico, while awaiting "approvals", & defacto to effect assembly line fixes, (cheaper to free to rent) while awaiting all the final disapprovals. All they have to do is remove specific (agreed upon) pieces of equipment.
VW is still dealing with WWII, there's not going to be any easy "getting over" a 7 year cheat scheme either.
Get back to me when Winterkorn goes to jail and then we can talk.
Now you, as a tax payer know @ least how long EPA/CARB has been asleep @ the proverbial wheel.
Now one may think they're being TOUGH by saying that it sends a message in the industry! But really what are they not saying while they are saying it ? They are not going to start any meaningful upgraded in testing! They operate like why test the 95 to 98% GASSERS ? ! Indeed Pruis'are exempt !
Would it have been more fair if Roosevelt (that dem ) had interned every minority group ( Japanese, German, Italian, etc) of the ww2 axis powers ?
I was thinking about the owners that are not interested in selling. Will VW be forced to give them anything other than the $1000 they already have? I don't think they will even try to fix the cars without Urea injection already installed. Which becomes a problem for many people to get them re-registered without the fix. I think at this time VW's generous offer is the best route to take.
1. Resale sales taxes
2. Yearly registration fees
3. Various late fees
4. Insurance taxation fees
6. Sales taxes on parts
7. Sales taxes on repairs
8. Ticket fines
9. DUI fees
10. Less accident repair revenues
11. In CA, no biannual smog fees
12. fuel taxes
So for example, I'm going to use this opportunity to operate one less car ! Defacto, the (CA, each) state/s will lose revenues associated with this (ea) car. In my case CA, is not getting @ least $500 per year. It also is not getting sales taxes ($2,700) on a $30,000 new car. CA even charges one NOT to register a car, one will not use that year. Keep in mind that for most people, these are after-tax monies. I'm liking this already
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"While the article doesn't actually specify it, the terms of the agreement require Volkswagen to modify the cars (if such modifications are approved) to meet the relevant *U.S.* standards before they can legally be exported.
In other words, they can't just buy 'em back and put 'em on a boat to Cuba or wherever.
Even though, to be fair, they *might* be as clean or clean as what's on sale there now due to far, far less stringent emission standards in those countries. But that's irrelevant. If the cars are to be resold anywhere, they must be modified.
IF, that is, the EPA + CARB even approve any such modifications ... which they have not yet done."
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Well, we certainly would not want ISIS to drive around non compliant US exported cars!
But @ the same time, he was just fine with 1950's US cars for the rest of the folks.
Now the funny part is some to many of those 1950's cars will probably end up on our shores! Even CA has the "antique" loophole.
I don't think many folks have not heard about Pebble Beach's Concourse d'Elegance ?
A 2.0L fix now seems 1/2 years off. The 3.0 L fix seems @ least 2/3 years off.
But then, from the get go, I said it would take a number of years. I was vilified for saying that. The whole brouhaha started mid September 2015. Currently as a result of the court settlement, I/we have until September 2018 to merely decide. That's about as close to three years..., & that's so far! Even if one has signed up for the program :buy back, fix, can't decide, cash is not in hand, nor is a fix approved.
Another angle: as long as fix/s are delayed, one can decide to take the buy back.
http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/crb/vwmdl/proposed-settlement
To me, it's been apparent from start: it's a Yogi Berra situation, it ain't over, till it's over.
Nobody seems to care: BUT !!!!
I think fix/s are the EPA/CAR's nightmare! It will probably be FAR worse if fixes are approved by their own hands!!! It puts potentially 485,000 TDI's then back on the roads. They still do not want to test diesels!! Then of course there will be follow on 80,000 3.0L TDI's. It saves VW a load of money. All those fixable cars are by definition REsellable! So it would appear, there is an EPA/CARB extreme conflict of interest!! EPA/CARB anti diesel have never been a secret.
"As specified in Appendices A and B, Settling Defendants may export from the United States to another country any 2.0 Liter Subject Vehicle, provided that such vehicle has received the applicable Approved Emissions Modification, and that no vehicle may be exported if the applicable Approved Emissions Modification has been suspended as set forth in Appendix B, Paragraph 7.3."
I kind of forget the question but I think the answer is "yes, but".
So the answer is "no, unless"?
Without getting technical, does the consent decree say that those non-approval cars will get shot in the head ?
My guess is EPA/CARB would be happy to have them on a slow boat to Bangladesh, rather than back on our roads. The other glaring error, was the cars had to pass the EPA emissions test. And what test might that be? I know the CARB test could not determine the levels of NOx, with or without the cheat device. You cannot measure NOx visually. I don't believe the EPA has ever tested the actual pollution levels on diesel cars. They have taken the word of the auto maker until the WV university got involved testing.
So unless they are willing to say EPA/CARB committed fraud, the cars already will pass EPA/CARB bi annual inspections ! & VW (nor any other oem) does NOT trick any software in the EPA/CARB certified bi annual process. Ergo.....
The same is true for natural gas vehicles / natural gas utilities. The local utility has both natural gas & electrical, yet the majority of their fleet are sans a high % of both. The real head scratcher: both fuels to the company are $$ ...free. @ worst, they pay wholesale per kWh & don't pay the taxes.
Longer term here is a readers digest version tmi : http://www.fool.com/investing/2016/11/04/heres-why-lithium-ion-batteries-probably-arent-the.aspx?ref=yfp
If this articles' http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/gm-starts-producing-200-mile-electric-chevrolet-bolt-43316179 figures of 235,000 EV cars/ 274.8 M is/are correct EV's are .00095% of the vehicle fleet.
But it would be easy to show the anti diesel EPA/CARB sentiments, should they not come to terms & grant approvals. Indeed not granting US market approvals is a very strong case FOR export!
In addition when the REGULATORS say openly they want to leave ONLY enough cash for VW C to barely tread water. How much clearer can that be? Just using an avg new car price of $25,000, that is $1.2125 B !
Now there are a host of things I do NOT miss about this gasser, one of the things being... it's a GASSER ! .....
But loads of good TMI ! I had wanted the diesel version, that was imported into Canada.
Slow diesel news day ! We did a fill, 535 miles 14.76 gal ULSD. Local (SJ, CA) area is a full 13-22 cents MORE than the Sacramento/Folsom, CA haunts.