What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

gagrice

ruking1 said:

Got milk? You all will be buying surgically affixed beltch, dung, & methane processors, if CARB has its way? http://www.seattletimes.com/business/california-targets-dairy-cows-to-combat-global-warming/?ref=yfp

Or the predictable rise in dairy & beef prices?

You would think all those smart scientist would come up with a way to produce milk and beef direct from grass? Eliminate the cow poop, burps and farts.

I guess that is asking too much, they can't even engineer a decent building in San Francisco. California legislators will not be happy till they have run every business out of the state.

They will have to pry my cold dead fingers from the steering wheel of my diesel SUV. :@

ruking1

Yup! Fremont, CA & CA ran Toyota out! I guess it was better to the elected officials that cars for here, actually made here, were better actually from off shore or from somewhere else in the US.

It's hard to make this stuff up!

I saw a WSJ article that CLEARLY said that the 2025 EPA standard of 54.5 mpg is 40 mpg REAL WORLD.

U of M says we are currently @ 24.8 mpg. real world!

fintail

After being stuck in traffic no doubt exacerbated by dumb controls - goofy light sequencing and questionably designed infrastructure, I have to wonder if poor or idiotic road conditions create more pollution than anything else - and why the greenies never say anything about it. Maybe the same reason they never really whine about pollution not in their backyards, or from stinky commercial rigs (or leaf blowers et al). But hey, let's spend gobs of money chasing down cow farts. It's funny how these sensitive easily triggered people who marched against "the establishment" 45-50 years ago are now, in fact, the establishment - with the same whine, ineptitude, and dubious ethics of the old establishment.

I was going to suggest that Californians who don't like the local management (but love the lottery jackpots received in the real estate market) move, but no, they should stay, or move to Florida or Ohio or something - we have enough up here

ruking1

Indeed, Wash state has exactly the same kind of folks in charge, just not Californians.

The best, tailor made by today's technology & working habits is living and working out of a customize Mercedes-Benz Blue Tech sprinter! One's domicile can be almost anywhere!

ruking1

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/california-targets-dairy-cows-to-combat-global-warming/?ref=yfp

Since the VW "diesel gate" brouhaha broke in September 2015, 2017 has been coming very soon, September will be 2 years !

If the 3.0 L TDI's structural solutions/terms are similar to the VW 2.0 L TDI's, some to most 3.0 L TDI owners, with prices being much higher, should have until 2019/2020 for the TBD options. One's gotta like getting KBB 2015 prices for cars 3 to 5 years older.

ruking1

ruking1 said:

Indeed, Wash state has exactly the same kind of folks in charge, just not Californians.

The best, tailor made by today's technology & working habits is living and working out of a customize Mercedes-Benz Blue Tech sprinter! One's domicile can be almost anywhere!

Seems like Seattle, WA has a lot of "wanna be's" only narrowly edging out Portland, OR. http://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/seattle-tops-the-nation-in-home-price-growth-for-first-time/

fintail

More like sounds like Seattle is a new haven for money laundering, much of it from areas with environmental crimes that make even the oldest diesel polluters look like unicorn farts.

Seattle and Portland will be the new LA/SD, perhaps Spokane and Boise the new Seattle and Portland.

ruking1

That works for me! Glad you like it! Are they good places for all the "sanctuary folks " being let in?

xwesx

I saw a rather funny sight in the parking lot at work this morning (it's -15 degrees....): A brand new Chevrolet Volt.

Kind of a head-scratcher, there. I can't see how that is going to be an efficient vehicle at these temperatures and with electricity at over $0.21 per kWh. But, I guess if the owner doesn't have a long commute and only charges it at work, he can just mooch off his employer and not worry about the cost, right?!

ruking1

Indeed, lack of electrical plug in stations is sheer shortsightedness on THE HIGHEST order! So what the eco nuts are saying is that there are absolutely no environmental & $ impacts in putting in separate, but equal EV infrastructures ! It takes absolutely no brains to know that's patently false.

On a reality level, it's like being told one has a full tank (200 miles?) but one needs to keep the tank close to fully charged @ all times?

My TDI's 871 mile range (33mpg*26.4 gal tank) remains a pipe dream for EV. The cpmd:fuel/equivalent is also more for EV.

That EV car would be very difficult to operate in a sanctuary city like San Francisco, without a fueling station one could plug into: for a number of hours to overnight . The private answer would be a $1.2 million on up "garage" in a house with installed 240 V on up station. Taxes on that property would be a minimum of app $10,000 per year.

One could wonder how much electricity is consumed looking for a parking space for 45 minutes: each time one needs to park?

But then, God bless Texas!!! OPEC has a deal they calculate will push oil to $ 60. ! Ramp up the frackers, boys & girls!
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/30/opec-deal-could-push-crude-oil-to-60-commentary.html?__source=yahoo|finance|headline|headline|story&par=yahoo&doc=104137323&yptr=yahoo&ref=yfp

gagrice

VW and the EPA is keeping us on pins and needles. Though as ruking pointed out every month we get to drive without any depreciation is money in the bank.

U.S. District Judge Charles Breyer has delayed today's court hearing on Volkswagen's (OTCPK:VLKAY) plan to address 80,000 polluting Audi (OTCPK:AUDVF), Porsche (OTCPK:POAHF) and VW 3.0-liter vehicles.
Negotiations are continuing between the German automaker, regulators and lawyers, he said, setting a Dec. 16 hearing after being advised that a delay "may produce a resolution of the outstanding issues."

As for the San Diego housing market Zillow just sent me the latest on my home. Up, up, up almost $100k over what we paid in 2007 at the Pre Bubble bursting point. I really never expected to get back what I had in this place back. Now it is looking like a decent profit, when and if we sell and move to Hawaii. Or second choice Oregon.

We watched this place being built. We could live on the ground floor and leave the two top floors in the vacation rental pool. It is currently with the same lady we are renting from on our trip in May.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/14-4711-Konani-Rd-Pahoa-HI-96778/533566_zpid/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=morechart&utm_campaign=emo-homereport-fsba-button#zestimate

This is the closest to Paradise I have ever been. Love Kapoho.

http://www.hawaiiwego.com/rentals/allrentals/kapoho-ocean-view-home/

ruking1

Yes I think there's a percentage of that 80,000 TDI population that's going to bug out of their diesels, because of the negative press. But that should present very good opportunities also. The best case would be: 80,000/68,000 used cars, @ fire sale prices?

I'm glad the highly localized housing prices are doing well: by going up in this case.

Here's an article about 6 M folks' auto loans!!http://www.businessinsider.com/auto-loan-delinquency-numbers-from-ny-fed-2016-11?ref=yfp

ruking1

What do you all think of this GM Bolt EV deal -$9,000 ? http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/30/gm-stands-to-lose-9000-dollars-per-car-on-chevy-bolt.html?__source=yahoo|finance|headline|headline|story&par=yahoo&doc=104137912&yptr=yahoo&ref=yfp

Meanwhile on the barrels oil and gas price ratio'shttp://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/consumer/os-opec-cuts-oil-production-20161130-story.html?ref=yfp

xwesx

Well of course they will lose money on them; particularly if they are including prorated R&D costs. It is a minor concern, though, considering the volume. If they sell one of these for every twenty Silverado in the state of California alone, GM will still be highly profitable in that market.

gagrice

xwesx said:

Well of course they will lose money on them; particularly if they are including prorated R&D costs. It is a minor concern, though, considering the volume. If they sell one of these for every twenty Silverado in the state of California alone, GM will still be highly profitable in that market.

Not to mention the Carbon Credits that will not be going into Elon Musk's wallet. How many years did Toyota lose money on the Prius? Lots of speculation about that move to play the Mileage game. GM may be getting the picture with the Cruze diesel, Volt, Bolt and soon the diesel Equinox. Buick is looking at the same diesel for the Encore and Verano. Things may be looking up in spite of dieselgate.

ruking1

9/10 speed A/T, here's the other part? http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/05/22/why-ford-and-general-motors-teamed-up-on-transmiss.aspx?ref=yfp

stever

The Prius? I don't think Toyota ever lost money on that one, and made a bundle. Not to mention sticking the tech in the Avalon, Camry, Highlander and Mirai. And didn't they license some of the tech to Ford? Oh, and Mazda too.

stever

"The leaders of four major global cities say they will stop the use of all diesel powered cars and trucks by the middle of the next decade.

The mayors of Paris, Mexico City, Madrid and Athens say they are implementing the ban to improve air quality."

Four major cities move to ban diesel vehicles by 2025 (BBC)

ruking1

.."There is an ironic twist to this. Governments originally promoted diesel vehicles because they produce fewer of the CO2 emissions that are increasing climate change."...

The eco cons are once again using the EXACT same scare tactics to bamboozle the public. It is a total failure of vision. Less PC, long-term exercises in utter stupidity. There are no numbers, most is conjecture, the procedures give voodoo runs for the monies.There are no targeted results. There are ZERO accountabilities!!

Sure, these four cities want to get rid of ALL their diesel cars,.... & then what,.... be like LOS ANGELES????, which approaches 100% NON diesel PVF???

All it takes are four phone calls to LA. Shoot if they want to save money & want meaningful exchanges & buy in's: do conference/meeting calling. They work across time zones! Ask one question: how's that (LESS we forget, almost 100% NON TDI PVF) working for you all?

Do they really want to repeat the process yet AGAIN & go to a another yet to be confirmed single source of energy? We all know that EV WILL be the new whipping boys/girls.

I predict with the 100% certainty and clarity that EV will be way more expensive than TDI's and Gassers ever where! It already is!

It's almost like NONE of these (political) people has EVER heard of Los Angeles, CA?, USA. Or maybe it's just another one of those travel boondoggles in the planning stages. ( anybody don't get the Nexuses here? )

fintail

All of those cities are also well known for stinky old commercial vehicles (and a lack of legislation around them), and temperature inversions or wind patterns that exacerbate the problem. It'll be interesting to see if there's any real change, or if it is more social engineering by the greenie weenies.

I always love the claims of promoting walking. They claim the same where I live, but pedestrian laws like crosswalks are virtually unenforced here, and nobody answers to it, as that sector of society is cradle to grave untouchable.

I also like how the brave ClientEarth warrior lawyer states: "...so that the problem is not simply pushed elsewhere."

I wonder if he'd answer up to the exported or offshored pollution made by EV production, shipping, and power generation for the new darling vehicles. I doubt he would.

stever said:

"The leaders of four major global cities say they will stop the use of all diesel powered cars and trucks by the middle of the next decade.

The mayors of Paris, Mexico City, Madrid and Athens say they are implementing the ban to improve air quality."

Four major cities move to ban diesel vehicles by 2025 (BBC)

ruking1

Why don't the Eco conservatives call WA state cross walks " Darwinian" crossing zones ? ( portals into alternate ways of existence)

fintail

It's like Russian roulette sometimes - in a crosswalk with a green signal? Might as well be running across a busy arterial. "Pedestrian friendly" and other laughable cliches of that style make my head spin. Kind of like cracking down on diesels and ignoring most other pollution.

ruking1

While I find this very entertaining, the reality & tragedy is that IF a crosswalk was actually "put in", that means that at least two people have probably died at that intersection to "get it. One should approach those places with at least that in mind! One is literal taking ones life in ones hands. So if you have one particular crosswalk in mind, RIP might be in order.

Anti diesel efforts are totally misguided. The real (ratio: 42 gal barrel/19 gal to 13 gal) math is the Grand Canyon chasm? The real truth they are a siren call for greater barrels of oil consumption.

gagrice

stever said:

"The leaders of four major global cities say they will stop the use of all diesel powered cars and trucks by the middle of the next decade.

The mayors of Paris, Mexico City, Madrid and Athens say they are implementing the ban to improve air quality."

Four major cities move to ban diesel vehicles by 2025 (BBC)

I cannot imagine in my wildest nightmare going to any of those cities. My two trips into Portland OR, while on Vacation was bad enough. I have my in and out of San Diego down pat. Only a few blocks off the freeway to the downtown library. Courtesy parking next to the elevator. Leave home at 9:15 arrive at the Library before 10AM. Leave the library with 10 more books for my wife. Just in time for a nice lunch somewhere far from downtown. Back home by 1PM in time for my power nap. Only do that every other Monday. No other reason is good enough to go into San Diego.

fintail

I live in a densely populated area - crosswalks were put in for the common good, this is a healthier than average area, and a lot of people walk. Which makes the crosswalk violators even more perplexing - not like I am in the south where nobody walks unless they have to. Sadly, there was a fatality in a crosswalk not far from me just a couple months ago - no doubt a distracted driver, no doubt virtually zero punishment.

I wonder what kind of pollution reduction we could see with optimized traffic controls vs fighting modern diesel passenger cars.

ruking1

Well, if that is an issue, one of may want to go to the city fathers/mothers meeting to get them to set up "sting operations" Around here, it's WAY beyond "distracted drivers".

Diesel news! http://www.hybridcars.com/california-outlines-how-it-wants-to-spend-volkswagens-800-million-diesel-emissions-settlement/?ref=yfp

stevedebi

stever said:

The Prius? I don't think Toyota ever lost money on that one, and made a bundle. Not to mention sticking the tech in the Avalon, Camry, Highlander and Mirai. And didn't they license some of the tech to Ford? Oh, and Mazda too.

Not to Ford, that is a common misconception. Ford and Toyota independently came up with a very similar hybrid system. They ended up swapping patent rights; Toyota got some of Fords brake technology, IIRC.

ruking1

Tell me I'm wrong, but most everybody pays some kind of royalties to Toyota for its hybrid technology. Sure
, everybody could reverse engineer it, but I'm sure Toyota would have sued everybody. That could have tied everybody else up for years. Then if any to all lost.... well the drill is 4 x as costly.

Through the years, I've been underwhelmed with both Toyota's & Ford' s braking technology! This starts with those rubber erasers they call brake pads. The rotors seem to be the other peas in the pod.

stever

You don't need pads with a traction battery. Just regenerate yourself to a stop.

Any diesel news? Anyone buying?

ruking1

I've not kept up with CUV hybrids for obvious reasons. But yes @. 50,000 to 60,000 miles intervals, it would be interesting to post data. Almost like clockwork the Toyota Land Cruisers get 50,000 miles. I used to be able to get 60,000 miles. If my math is correct, app 830,000 over the years. That is app 17 sets.

So I hardly think you are saying that hybrid brakes are trouble-free or do not need any maintenance? http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-types/regenerative-braking.htm

I grew up riding its "grandpappy/mummy " (trolley cars in the pic)

stever

"Unless you have to brake suddenly, a hybrid regenerates electricity with a regenerative brake instead of applying the standard brakes. Since you could drive around all day without hardly using the conventional brakes, you can expect your brakes to need service far less often than a non-hybrid would. When the Prius was used in taxi fleets, it demonstrated less of a need for brake maintenance than its non-hybrid counterparts."

That's what the internets say. (MoneyCrashers.com)

elias

Some of us old-timer VW TDI people ignored the post-2006 TDIs, awaiting a stickshift diesel car that obeys the laws of physics and USA. It's been a long wait but it looks like GM in USA will have the Chevy Cruze diesel available soon, with stickshift and The Torque....

ruking1

EV cars have been shown to have a very high percentage loss of EV energy rate. I just read an article in the Wall Street Journal (World Dec5, 2016) in China, a minimum of minus- 20 to 50% of solar and wind energy goes to complete & utter loss.

10% ethanol, so called E 10 has been shown to get 20% less mpg than gasoline. E 85 has been documented to get a minimum of 33% less than gasoline. Yet government mandated formulas calls for E 85 vehicles that get 14 ti 21 mpg to get credit for 100 mpg plus. Gasoline has been shown to get a minimum of 33% less then diesel.

I'm sure the haters don't see a trend here. I'm sure if diesel had that leaky of a tank, there would be vilification blather to listen to..

stever

Last I looked, gas engines were getting to be about as efficient as diesels. Between transmission loses (including friction in the pipelines), none of our energy sources are particularly efficient. There's an argument to be made that a propane water heater is more efficient than a "100% efficient" electric water heater if you really try to look at all the variables.

Then add in health or national security aspects and see how the energy numbers look.

ruking1

Oh yes! I see that opinion embedded in real world CUV mpg numbers (TDI mpg 63% better), (midsize) 2012 VW Touareg gasoline, 19 to 21 mpg! I'm told the gas hybrid gets 1 mpg,/max 2 mpg better. The (My) TDI posts 31 to 37 mpg! i've posted more than once why mine only gets 33 MPG.

These gasoline/diesel ratios numbers ( like model, of course & goes without saying) have been true for easily 30 years. They will remain true going forward for easily two decades. Indeed that is true given the 2025 54.5 MPG standard with 38 mpg, real world.

The PVF will remain, (& in fact grow) are approximately 75% + plus larger cars to light trucks, with approximately LESS than 25% "small" cars for @ least 2/3 decades. Indeed if the the trend continues toward CUV's, LESS ownership, etc., the small car PVF should shrink precipitously. If the Prius is to be adapted for widespread taxi applications it will probably take the form of a CUV or the current model of Nissan London taxi.

On a macro level, 17.5 M vehicles (2016 ) MY will hit the PVF with its unknown %'s. EV, hybrids, etc,. The government knows the exact figures. Barring unpredictable circumstances, it will easily hit 11.5 years every age in the PVF in 11.5 years. I guess 24.8 is the average MPG .

That might be why natural gas is a good choice for water heaters. I've also read in the process of USA consumption, more natural gas is flared off than is actually consumed. The nexus: it's a price thing rather than a "leaky" container.

ruking1

The King is dead? Long live the new king?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/saudi-arabia-surrenders-u-shale-230000428.html

Long live the American Frackers! Fracking is an example of grit, determination, innovation, efficiency & value addition in the industry & market place!

More to diesels/power trains point, GM has projected their gas/diesel fuel savings @ 2% better, implementing its "new" 9 speed AT, de facto & presumably over iits own internal 6 sped A/T. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/saudi-arabia-surrenders-u-shale-230000428.html

Again, de facto & in the real world , the GM new transmission news demonstrates gasser improvements are no where near diesel improvements! 2% better on the 2009 VW Jetta TDI @ 40 mpg would be .8 mpg= 40.8 mpg. On an 21 mpg Acura MDX, (M/S CUV) the rounding convention keeps mpg gains @ 21mpg: real world 21.42. As I have demonstrated more than once, posted to these boards, easily negated by "hammering".

So if one knows how many 9 G A/T's hit the PVF each year, it's easy to project how many generations it will take for the whole fleet to be 9 G A/T's sans those rebel MT holdouts.

fintail

Grit, determination, and earthquakes! Great, now Albertans are going to get arrogant again

I also suspect small diesels have improved more than small gassers since the 80s or so.

ruking1

Earthquakes have happened in Japan since before recorded history. They don't have oil to use, let alone export, or to the point: they don't frack!

Suspect might be too fuzzy a word. IF given the choice between a 1980s diesel or a 2012 on up diesel, that would be a no-brainer for me.

fintail

Insane apples to oranges. Japan also has just slightly different geology than Oklahoma, where quakes conveniently became much more common when fracking became trendy. Or maybe it's all just a coincidence

kyfdx

ruking1 said:

Earthquakes have happened in Japan since before recorded history. They don't have oil to us, let alone export, or to the point: they don't frack!

Of course, none of this means that fracking doesn't cause more seismic activity. The evidence seems pretty clear.

Not to mention, no one in Southeast Ohio could set their tap water on fire, before the fracking started.

ruking1

Oil's organic! H20 250 miles.... deep? http://finance.yahoo.com/news/saudi-arabia-surrenders-u-shale-230000428.html

stever

But in Northeast Ohio, the Cuyahoga River notoriously caught fire in '69 (what didn't catch fire in 1969?). That wasn't the first time it burned, but that was the fire that gave us the Clean Water Act. Time Magazine hyped it, but being unable to find a photo of the actual '69 fire, they used a dramatic one from '52. The '69 fire was due to an oil slick catching fire. (link)

ruking1

Well you don't really hear a lot of people & eco conservatives waxing poetic about living in tents and tepees! Many of the ones that do wax poetic can't afford the wind and solar that they so dearly advocate.

stever

They did wax poetic about driving a clean diesel TDI.

ruking1

TDI's have been a very small niche market for a long time! Of 2014 274.8 M PVF, 3 to 5% are @ most a total of 13.74 M. 6.8 7 M are TDI cars.

ruking1

So there's an oil shortage ? http://www.newsmax.com/Finance/StreetTalk/bp-oil-asia-united-states/2016/12/07/id/762624/?ref=yfp

texases

Shortage? No, this is a result of all the oil the US is producing, along with countries wanting to create new suppliers to counter the (as yet unrealized) OPEC production cuts.

ruking1

Eco conservative fantasies are just that! Myths are exposed for what they have been.

ULSD $ 2.45 (RUG $2.61, PUG $2.97) @ one of the fav halfway stops.

Geez, I'll let my wife drive & nap through the pace, especially when she posts 38 to 42 mpg, to my 36 mpg R/T. I'm starting to like 75 mph to 82 mph. (Not)

ruking1

6.5 M Pacific Ocean earthquake off the coast of CA, 281 miles northwest of Sacramento. http://abcnews.go.com/US/65-magnitude-earthquake-recorded-off-coast-california/story?id=44060071

It's a natural occurrence, like most earth quakes are. Oceans "fart" to spew methane. Get over it already.

kyfdx

ruking1 said:

6.5 M Pacific Ocean earthquake off the coast of CA, 281 miles northwest of Sacramento. http://abcnews.go.com/US/65-magnitude-earthquake-recorded-off-coast-california/story?id=44060071

It's a natural occurrence, like most earth quakes are. Oceans "fart" to spew methane. Get over it already.

So... the fact that earthquakes exist anywhere in the world means that fracking couldn't possibly increase their frequency?

By that "logic" the earthquake didn't cause the tsunami at Fukushima, because they have earthquakes in Oklahoma, and they don't cause tsunamis.