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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,681
    ruking1 said:


    I also think that IF Jaguar has in mind to be the leader (de facto) in diesel, they will be able to sell all they can/care to import?

    As long as they are reliable, that may be true!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    Right now, it is literally Jaguar's to lose!

    Will any of the affected TDI's be destined to follow Mrs. Murray's 2009 TLC? http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-travels-of-mrs-murrays-toyota-unveils-terror-finance-network-1482163526
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    Speaking of Jaguar's diesel entry....http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-travels-of-mrs-murrays-toyota-unveils-terror-finance-network-1482163526

    The wife was reading an online USA Today article indicating 2009-2012 Touareg TDI's are buy back @ "retail" candidates, as there are no agreements to "older" TDI fixes or timetables. If there are no agreements &/or approvals, my take was 100% buy back. The court set Spring 2017 to revisit "progress".
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    ruking1 said:

    Speaking of Jaguar's diesel entry....http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-travels-of-mrs-murrays-toyota-unveils-terror-finance-network-1482163526

    The wife was reading an online USA Today article indicating 2009-2012 Touareg TDI's are buy back @ "retail" candidates, as there are no agreements to "older" TDI fixes or timetables. If there are no agreements &/or approvals, my take was 100% buy back. The court set Spring 2017 to revisit "progress".

    That is kind of weird as the 2012-2016 are the same as far as I can tell. The 2010 and back was different with no adblue and not legal in CA. The V10 TDI in the early years was legal as it was heavy enough to be considered commercial I assume. Your 2012 has Adblue same as my 2013. With EU sales up VW stock is doing well. Who knows what will happen.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    Indeed! The (extra) $1.0 B for 83,000 3.0 L TDI's, does not make preliminary sense @ $9,337 per unit. When you back out 20,000 (non fixable 2009 to 2012 TDI's @ "retail" ) buy back units, that leaves 63,000 fixable TDI's.

    It makes me wonder if the writers that cough up these articles, even know what they are writing about.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I know for myself, I will not sell unless it is TOP dollar. Of course anything VW gives me will be graciously accepted and considered part payment on my trade. I can only find 17 Touareg TDIs from 2013 for sale in the USA. Which means people are hanging on to them. Most are in the high $30ks low $40ks. As of today I don't care if I ever sell the vehicle. I like it far more than my wife's 1990 Lexus LS400. And it still takes up a lot of room in my garage.

    ON a positive note, VW USA sales were up 24.2% over November 2015. So I guess VW is able to sell cars without diesel option. At least to 29,672 buyers in November. Audi seems to have withstood the scandal. 71 straight months of increased sales. Gas SUVs, are big sellers. Why I have no idea.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,565
    2009-2012 Touaregs are being bought back. 2013 and up get modifications.

    2012 and 2013 are not the same.

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  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    2012 TO 2013 3.0 TDI engines received (many) internal upgrades, TMI for even this board! Three examples might be: more durable and reliable timing chain & path upgrades, new designed intake system, less friction in operation, aka, in theory better mpg & better torque curves. When going to local VW GTG's, I rarely discussed it with anyone. Normally, only the parts supplier & one or two gurus knew the differences.

    So now (to me) the questions are: what are the emissions $$'s penalties, TBD smaller penalties, VW's definition of "retail", & if it's merely model specific September 2015 KBB prices. The various articles imply it "could, should, will be" much "richer" compensation/s aka, close to what was paid "retail" when new!
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    gagrice said:

    I know for myself, I will not sell unless it is TOP dollar. Of course anything VW gives me will be graciously accepted and considered part payment on my trade. I can only find 17 Touareg TDIs from 2013 for sale in the USA. Which means people are hanging on to them. Most are in the high $30ks low $40ks. As of today I don't care if I ever sell the vehicle. I like it far more than my wife's 1990 Lexus LS400. And it still takes up a lot of room in my garage.

    ON a positive note, VW USA sales were up 24.2% over November 2015. So I guess VW is able to sell cars without diesel option. At least to 29,672 buyers in November. Audi seems to have withstood the scandal. 71 straight months of increased sales. Gas SUVs, are big sellers. Why I have no idea.

    For the same reason several companies are able to pawn off "Sport" SUV's such as the Macan and SQ5. Doesn't make any sense to me to get an SQ5 when a Q5 will do, but apparently there is a market.

    If you want an S model, I say get the S3 or S4 or TTS.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    Overall, there are WAY too many variants. (US GASSERS mainly) TDI Touareg's had three variants as I recall: 1. Sport 2. Luxury 3. Executive.

    Another host once documented a year or so ago that Edmunds.com documented over 600 variations.

    Off-topic, so if you think that your are burning 22 mpg, gasoline (when you could be burning 36 mpg ULSD )to save this ... https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/3c4e06ee-e941-307a-8a89-722275ae2335/ss_why-nobody-needs-to-freak-out.html don't freak! Burn more! Not less!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    kyfdx said:

    2009-2012 Touaregs are being bought back. 2013 and up get modifications.

    2012 and 2013 are not the same.

    Well that explains a lot to me. Why Ruking could consistently get over 30 MPG with his 2012 Touareg while I rarely got over 30 MPG. Did a little research the 2009-12 used the 3.0L TDI generation 1. 2013 and newer Touareg used the Generation 2 engine. I have not read all 46 pages just enough to see there is a significant difference in the two engines. I should add my MPG went down slightly when I put new tires on. Learn something new every day.

    http://www.asealliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/3.0L-V6-TDI-Engine.pdf

    http://www.trucktrend.com/news/1401-audis-second-generation-30l-v-6-torque/
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    That happened to me recently when I got new tires for the van, took about a 3 mpg hit. More than I was expecting. It's gone back up a little since.

    More OT, but I saw some camel saddle bags for sale today, from the Tuareg tribe. No VW logos on them.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,565
    ruking1 said:

    2012 TO 2013 3.0 TDI engines received (many) internal upgrades, TMI for even this board! Three examples might be: more durable and reliable timing chain & path upgrades, new designed intake system, less friction in operation, aka, in theory better mpg & better torque curves. When going to local VW GTG's, I rarely discussed it with anyone. Normally, only the parts supplier & one or two gurus knew the differences.

    So now (to me) the questions are: what are the emissions $$'s penalties, TBD smaller penalties, VW's definition of "retail", & if it's merely model specific September 2015 KBB prices. The various articles imply it "could, should, will be" much "richer" compensation/s aka, close to what was paid "retail" when new!

    The buyback is November 2015 "clean retail" from the NADA guide.
    (there will be adjustments for OEM equipment, as listed in the NADA guide, as well)
    Plus an adjustment addition for your local sales tax
    Plus $720.

    Not nearly as generous as the 2.0 buyback plan.

    2009-2012 will not be offered a modification, it doesn't look like, and 2013+ will not be offered a buyback.

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  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    gagrice said:

    kyfdx said:

    2009-2012 Touaregs are being bought back. 2013 and up get modifications.

    2012 and 2013 are not the same.

    Well that explains a lot to me. Why Ruking could consistently get over 30 MPG with his 2012 Touareg while I rarely got over 30 MPG. Did a little research the 2009-12 used the 3.0L TDI generation 1. 2013 and newer Touareg used the Generation 2 engine. I have not read all 46 pages just enough to see there is a significant difference in the two engines. I should add my MPG went down slightly when I put new tires on. Learn something new every day.

    http://www.asealliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/3.0L-V6-TDI-Engine.pdf

    http://www.trucktrend.com/news/1401-audis-second-generation-30l-v-6-torque/
    It would be interesting (to document, for this board) what MPG's we would get, driving each other's rig in eachs' environments (28 mpg/33 mpg) For sure, there are forms of internal & anecdotal consistencies. I'm sure there would also be a few surprises.

    I was on Facebook with a friend (former LEO ) getting 20 mpg on a (gasser) 14 Toyota Highlander, who drives in my "area", but in a different section. Even @ that, there are significant (40% to 65%) differences in mpg: gasoline/ULSD. (20/28/33 mpg)

    Over 100,000 miles, it does raise questions. Why use 3,030/3,571 gals of ULSD, when 5,000 gals of RUG will do? (Burn more, not less: while professing to burn less, philosophy? )

    That being said, TDI's start at a minimum of 33% mpg advantage over like model/competitors CUV's in our cases) GASSERS. Gasser/hybrids gain 1 mpg & @ most 2 mpg.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    So from what you've read, there are NO 3.0 L TDI emissions penalties?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,565
    ruking1 said:

    So from what you've read, there are NO 3.0 L TDI emissions penalties?

    There are penalties.... just not much in the way of extra on the buyback

    Difference between 2.0 and 3.0 buyback
    Average retail 09/15 vs. clean retail 11/15.
    No adjustment for sales tax vs. sales tax adjustment
    $2900 additional vs. $720 additional.


    More or less..

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  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    Based on what I've seen so far, the 3.0 L VW TDI realities are hard to know, let alone quantify. It's interesting to note that they are going to give ales tax allowances ! Perhaps this board contributed to that issue! Again, the sales tax allowance $$'s are hard to know @ this point.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,565
    ruking1 said:

    Based on what I've seen so far, the 3.0 L VW TDI realities are hard to know, let alone quantify. It's interesting to note that they are going to give ales tax allowances ! Perhaps this board contributed to that issue! Again, the sales tax allowance $$'s are hard to know @ this point.

    Not hard... just add your sales tax to the clean retail price (as of 11/2015), then add $720.

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  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    Again, without agreements , (the Court targets Spring 2017) meaning LESS!

    So using ball park figures, post low $30k (NADA est .,31.6k/32.6k = 27k/28k. KBB +3.87k tax + .720) for 12 Touareg TDI.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,565
    ruking1 said:

    Again, without agreements , (the Court targets Spring 2017) meaning LESS!

    So using ball park figures, post low $30k (NADA est .,31.6k/32.6k = 27k/28k. KBB +3.87k tax + .720) for 12 Touareg TDI.

    I'll look up the link that has the values. The agreement has been made. Just dotting the i's

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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Two things will be of interest to me on the 3.0L TDI 2nd generation resolution. First will the modifications lower my mileage? Second will it hurt my power? Reading about the engine, VW/Audi claims it is an improvement in both power and mileage. I am above the average on Fuelly for my lifetime MPG. I am not convinced the 19" tires and wheels are as fuel efficient as the smaller diameter wheels. I will be getting SCORPION VERDE ALL SEASON PLUS when the current Michelins need replacing. For one thing they are the correct size. Not sure that will make any difference. So if VW gets an approved fix I will likely keep the vehicle. Hard to imagine anything I would like better. Of course a BIG FAT CHECK would also be nice for all the stress they have put me through. B)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    kyfdx said:

    ruking1 said:

    Again, without agreements , (the Court targets Spring 2017) meaning LESS!

    So using ball park figures, post low $30k (NADA est .,31.6k/32.6k = 27k/28k. KBB +3.87k tax + .720) for 12 Touareg TDI.

    I'll look up the link that has the values. The agreement has been made. Just dotting the i's
    By lack of specifics on the 3.0 L TDI " unknown knowns or known unknowns" and/or combinations, cost per mile driven, cpmd: depreciation should be 3.3 cents for the 2.0L 2009 VW compared to projected (at this writing of) 15.6 cents for the 3.0 L 2012 VW.

    Merry Christmas to everyone!
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    gagrice said:

    Two things will be of interest to me on the 3.0L TDI 2nd generation resolution. First will the modifications lower my mileage? Second will it hurt my power? Reading about the engine, VW/Audi claims it is an improvement in both power and mileage. I am above the average on Fuelly for my lifetime MPG. I am not convinced the 19" tires and wheels are as fuel efficient as the smaller diameter wheels. I will be getting SCORPION VERDE ALL SEASON PLUS when the current Michelins need replacing. For one thing they are the correct size. Not sure that will make any difference. So if VW gets an approved fix I will likely keep the vehicle. Hard to imagine anything I would like better. Of course a BIG FAT CHECK would also be nice for all the stress they have put me through. B)

    In direct response to the correct tire sizing and brand, going back to OEM sizing and AFTERMARKET Scorpion Verde PLUS are good decisions. My guess on the mpg gain: 1 to 3 mpg better after the break in period, app 500 miles. My additional swag 1 to 2 mpg difference because of 19 in vs 18 in wheels.

    For the greater board, truly many things can go into ones' mpg/s. Using diesel vs a like model gasser should now be an obvious HUGE advantage (33mpg vs 20 mpg gas 12 VW Touareg) . This is not even to mention that IF 60% of the passenger vehicle fleet were diesel, we'd consume WAY less barrels of oil! (easily 50% less) This would be sans the deniers to I don't care crowds, etc.

    Remember, what gasser gasser/hybrid owners are being told, to defacto ok with: burning 33 to 65% MORE is less pollutive than burning ... LESS!

    The trick & balance are to put as many advantages on ones' side, if "optimized" mpg is a priority.

    So one might correctly observe, I try to put all the advantages on my side. Then oxymoronically, then "hammer" the vehicle by not " Gerdes" rizing my mpg, i.e., going 5 to 10 mpg UNDER the (65mph) speed limit.

    Speaking of painful auto scandals... http://finance.yahoo.com/m/63dff1f3-5af3-37ec-bf50-bb0d0e1b31bc/10-of-the-most-brutally.html
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    42.8 mpg on my trip yesterday - not too shabby given there was a little traffic even early in the morning, and it was quite icy on some less traveled roads, so speed varied.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    We did a round trip 130 miles, to a relative's home in Marin County, CA for the Christmas Days party. The topic of wine normally comes up in this neck of the woods,(Napa Valley not far up the road) We trekked the Highway 880 freeway, where traffic clipped along @ 80-85 mpg, with passing to the left/right lanes due to left lane road hogs. "Choke points" traffic seemed to clip along @ 65 to 75 mph. Thank goodness there were no GS Warriors, Oakland Raiders, 49ner etc, games traffic.

    The CHP seemed to be out in full force. All seemed to be off on the "customer" service lanes.

    The wife & I sat in the rear of the MB GLK 250BT, while the youngest daughter drove. We were particularly happy to be in the backseat, as the upcoming wine tastings were particularly full this year: cabs, merlots, zinfandels, pinot noir, chards, etc. The youngest has wine maker friends sets, (UC Davis wino grads, aka, exec management, viticulture & enology) http://wineserver.ucdavis.edu but she normally stays in hotels, when they GTG, so she doesn't have to drive. So this trip, she was fine being the designated driver. Local home brewed & home town coffee roaster blends were very very tasty.

    The Bay Area & Pacific Ocean, Bay & Richmond Bridges & Port of Oakland & oil & gas refinery views were spectacularly stunning with CRYSTAL CLEAR atmospheres in the panoramas. Docked ocean worthy sail boats were dressed in twinkling Christmas lighting regalia . Even docked oil tankers were bathed in Christmas lighting! We even reminisced, zipping past (the old alma mater) Berkeley exits. (not in chronological order)

    The low fuel lamp lit during the return leg. I'm guessing the ULSD tank full will be pretty close to 36 to 38 mpg. We will refuel today for a (70 miles) R/T to the airport. We will be going to South Lake Tahoe, CA, to make sure it's still there, later on in the week. Snow is actually expecte, the first days of the new year! ?

    So I hope all had a very Merry Christmas! I wish all a very happy & prosperous New Year . Diesel on!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2016
    Sounds nice. Our last company has a friend who is a vintner (also UC Davis grad) who has a new wine out with some big conglomerate outfit. Unfortunately our friend couldn't remember which variety it was, so she guessed. Hopefully she guessed wrong, because the wine was thin and lousy. :)

    (And "diesel on"? I thought the new engines fixed that old problem. :D )
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    2014 MB GLK 250 BT posted 35.47 mpg with ULSD $2.71 tank fill. RUG $2.55/PUG $2.77. Scratch the endless loop airport run. The 2012 VW Touareg TDI is doing that delivery.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Drove back to the rat race, and logged an identical 42.8 mpg. I was kind of surprised, as traffic was worse, but I drove faster on open roads as there was no ice, maybe that made up for it.

    Can't imagine a better mix of comfort and economy.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    fintail said:

    Drove back to the rat race, and logged an identical 42.8 mpg. I was kind of surprised, as traffic was worse, but I drove faster on open roads as there was no ice, maybe that made up for it.

    Can't imagine a better mix of comfort and economy.

    I don't believe you will find any luxury gasser or hybrid that can match comfort, handling, safety and economy. You better keep that one when the lease is up.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Definitely, it's hard to beat. They got it right with the 4cyl. I have my doubts about wanting a 4cyl gasser in such a car, which will influence the future. I have a bad feeling that the emotional hive-mind of the eco weenies might limit future diesel models. It's going to be interesting in a couple years. I'm not drawn to any of the current gasoline offerings.
    gagrice said:



    I don't believe you will find any luxury gasser or hybrid that can match comfort, handling, safety and economy. You better keep that one when the lease is up.

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    With 20/20 hindsight, I'd still prefer the (now 2013-2015) 3.0 L VW TDI ! I still really like the 8 speed A/T.

    Then (still) the 2014-2015 MB 2.1 L BT, with the 7 speed A/T is a keeper! With chain control requirements, I'd still chose the 4matic CUV, in our case GLK 250BT.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    ruking1 said:

    With 20/20 hindsight, I'd still prefer the (now 2013-2015) 3.0 L VW TDI ! I still really like the 8 speed A/T.

    Then (still) the 2014-2015 MB 2.1 L BT, with the 7 speed A/T is a keeper! With chain control requirements, I'd still chose the 4matic CUV, in our case GLK 250BT.

    You have driven both in snow and on ice. Which do you prefer, the GLK or the Touareg?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    We (4 adults ) are up in South Lake Tahoe using the GLK 250 BT. While slightly tight, we made it up in fine style, posting 36.5 mpg. I sat in back. The main roads were mostly dry, but had snow, ice & slush on neighborhood roads. So for 4/5 adults, the VW Touareg TDI remains the better choice. I'm guessing we would've posted very similar mpg. (31/33)

    Interesting surprise, two small earthquakes!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Depending on how deep they are and the geology, etc., a 5.7 can feel pretty big. They are kind of fun in a way, but they always remind you of how most stuff we worry about doesn't matter much in the bigger scheme of things.

    Diesel Engines and U.S. Market Not Good Fit (Wards Auto)

    "What were they thinking? I believe they got carried away by their diesel success in Europe and forgot customers and markets are different. Products need to be developed to satisfy consumer desires, not the other way around.

    For now, it seems VW has learned its painful lesson and will invest in new technologies and products that better fit with market demands. Electrified powertrains, connected cars and autonomous driving all are high priorities now. It’s just unfortunate the automaker had to go through an existential crisis to figure that out.

    How much progress could have been made if all these efforts and funds had been directed from the very beginning toward technology progress and innovation?"
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,565
    Since diesels were 20% of US VW sales, I'd say that Wards is wrong about the market.

    It's the laws of physics that VW had trouble with.

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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    Depending on how deep they are and the geology, etc., a 5.7 can feel pretty big. They are kind of fun in a way, but they always remind you of how most stuff we worry about doesn't matter much in the bigger scheme of things.

    Diesel Engines and U.S. Market Not Good Fit (Wards Auto)

    "What were they thinking? I believe they got carried away by their diesel success in Europe and forgot customers and markets are different. Products need to be developed to satisfy consumer desires, not the other way around.

    For now, it seems VW has learned its painful lesson and will invest in new technologies and products that better fit with market demands. Electrified powertrains, connected cars and autonomous driving all are high priorities now. It’s just unfortunate the automaker had to go through an existential crisis to figure that out.

    How much progress could have been made if all these efforts and funds had been directed from the very beginning toward technology progress and innovation?"

    I would have to disagree. It is government intervention that made diesels more popular in Europe. The EU was less restrictive on PM & NOx with lower prices for diesel. We have consistently had higher priced diesel. And CA that is really in charge of emissions of the EPA has raised the bar each time the auto makers caught up to US regulations.

    EVs without some very big breakthrough in battery technology will not be more than a commuter solution. It is all about social engineering. Now the Chinese will take camless gas engines to the next level extending the internal combustion engine at least a few more decades. Still will not match diesel for economy.

    http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/news/a31657/koenigseggs-camless-engine-getting-close-to-production-in-china/
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited December 2016
    EVs and autonomous cars are progress? LOL. I wonder if Wards has some bias.or more likely, the author gains a meal ticket from working with EV/autonomous startups. I bet he "drives" a Tesla! Recent VW woes aren't from overestimating demand, they are from getting caught and insulting ego. These so-called experts have unfortunately weaseled their way into policy positions, and will make a difficult future.

    Technically, that particular camless engine is Swedish, just being produced (reliability unknown) by our most favored "partner". Some can't wait to buy cars from that regime.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    He does have some good points about VW not understanding the US market though.

    i.e., where are their pickups?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Technically, that particular camless engine is Swedish, just being produced (reliability unknown) by our most favored "partner". Some can't wait to buy cars from that regime.

    Very true Christian von Koenigsegg invented the engine and the Chinese saw something they liked and brought him on board. Our automakers are far too arrogant to accept the fact that not all inventions come from the big companies. I would bet within 5 years we are flooded with Cheap Chinese cars. Especially small gas and EV models. China controls the resources needed for high tech manufacturing processes. We shut down our dirty mines and closed the land to further development. So anything electric will be built in China. Or we will pay huge prices for the rare earth elements needed. Even with high tariffs we are not likely to be competitive in the future.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited December 2016
    BMW, Lexus, and MB don't have pickups. Honda, with massive sales, only has one - which historically been a very minor player in the market. A pickup isn't a deal breaker in this market. IMO that Wards piece is an editorial at best. Automotive journalism is definitely devolving - anyone writes anything, no matter their credentials or bias, and presents it as fact. In this age of fake news, I suppose it makes sense.

    It'll be interesting to see if the upcoming regime either repeals regulation to let Murka become an environmental criminal like our "partner", or enacts compensatory measures on imports from said "partner" to make up for their questionable means of production.

    Camless engines are interesting, but have not been proven in large scale manufacturing or widespread heavy use. I think that's a key reason why the big boys haven't ran with it - lots of risk. A million defective engines would create legal issues to make dieselgate look like Disneyland.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    All those other makes have big honking SUVs. And diesel pickups sell, but VW didn't try one.

    VW even tried to foist a rebadged Caravan with non-folding seats on us.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think the PU market is harder to break into. PU buyers are likely more brand loyal than car or SUV buyers. Nissan & Toyota have been selling PU trucks in the US since the 1960s. Combined they do not sell half as many PU trucks as Ford. Once a Chevy man or a Ford man always buy the same brand. Unless they got a real lemon. Toyota and Nissan mostly sell their mid sized PU trucks. It is a lucrative market, and I do believe a smaller PU with a diesel engine getting 35 MPG would sell like hotcakes. The GM Canyon/Colorado are hardly small PU trucks.

    Looking at the Canyon up 43% and Colorado up 39%. They do not break out diesel sales that I can find.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Registration only link and I didn't see anything about diesels in the first paragraph.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    SUVs and pickups are apples to oranges. The pickup market has a huge commercial base to subsidize it, where the SUV base has a suburban drone market that isn't quite as important.

    I find it hard to believe that the buyers of big American diesel trucks would flock to a small VW. Even the smaller GM diesel is a niche product, outsold handily by larger models. And even if VW was able to sell some, would they sell enough to justify the costs of bringing a model to market? I have to believe VW has studied the issue in more detail than any of us here. The money is still in the huge production full size models, which VW does not have. Bring over the Anorak, it would develop a cult like the Ridgeline, and that's it. And if it has classic VW QC issues, well, good luck.

    The Wards opinion piece masquerading as a legit article was based on VW chasing diesel over EV.




  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2016
    Any of you Californians know what an "OCS inspection" is for a new car? I'm guessing it's something to do with smog. TIA
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    stever said:

    All those other makes have big honking SUVs. And diesel pickups sell, but VW didn't try one.

    VW even tried to foist a rebadged Caravan with non-folding seats on us.

    And Mercedes thought buying Chrysler was a good idea.

    And that Smart cars were a good idea.

    And BMW, are they profitable with MINI?

    Saw a yellow Lambo yesterday; nice!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Lol! I saw a (same as ours) white GLK 250 BT! They waved!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2016
    Unicorns do that with each other. B)

    Uptick in hybrid sales marks another blow to diesel cars (autoweek.com)

    "Bloomberg reports Toyota expects to see a 40 percent jump in the annual sales of gas-electric hybrids this year, with these vehicles on track to make up more than 50 percent of Toyota's sales in the region." The region being the European mainland.

    This one focuses on pickups, sounds like a bit of a rehash of the prior suit that must still be pending somewhere:

    A Second Lawsuit Accuses Fiat Chrysler Of Cheating On Diesel Emissions (Jalopnik)

    Okay, one for the fans:

    Jaguar's diesel XE R-Sport delivers fun, cachet, 40 mpg (chron.com)
This discussion has been closed.