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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    edited December 2016
    Some fracking/earthquake facts:

    The earthquakes in the US (Oklahoma, Texas and Ohio) result from water injection into disposal wells completed in geologic zones/locations inappropriate for disposal, and do not result directly from fracking. Those in Alberta appear to result from fracking, but I haven't looked into them.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    The earthquake was probably from the torque generated by all the MB diesels that are sold on the west coast :)

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    Yup my VW 2003 Jetta TDI causes most earthquakes since 2002 when it was made! :D

    Climate change has always been political? http://www.wsj.com/articles/as-al-gore-told-donald-trump-1481326892

    EV's & climate change totally outed once again! ?

    ..."A new study from Arthur D. Little finds that, over its lifecycle, an electric car will generate just 23% fewer greenhouse gas emissions than a gasoline-powered car. If every car on earth were electric, this translates into a mere 1.8% decline in total emissions.

    Yet even a small electric car will cost its owner $20,816 more to own and operate than a comparable gas-powered car, and its total “human toxicity”—mainly due to heavy metals and graphite—will be three to five times greater.

    This is hardly the first study to demonstrate that electric cars solve no environmental problem. Will it make a difference? No. We’re way beyond that now."...
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The politics of Climate Change/Global Warming are best demonstrated by Al Gore. From a very small time millionaire VP to flying around the country in his own Gulfstream. Spewing more CO2 than a small town in Kansas. TN Farm, yacht, limos and a Malibu Beach House. Net worth of $300 million. It is like being the top guy on a pyramid scheme. In this case the High Priest of the Global Warming Cult. Bet he does not own a fuel saving diesel. No he took advantage of our tax dollars subsidizing a foreign built car. No wonder so many people are GW skeptics.

    It’s funny how a fantastic car such at the Fisker Karma, a luxury $100,000 USD hybrid car, won’t get nearly the press it deserves until a celebrity buys one. The person reportedly set to get the first car off the line is none other than Leonardo Di Caprio of course, followed soon after by Al Gore and Colin Powell.

    https://www.slashgear.com/fisker-karma-lux-hybrid-car-ships-to-leonardo-di-caprio-first-then-al-gore-and-colin-powell-19173039/
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Or you could step back a bit and see what benefits getting away from a particle spewer has.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    In the not too distant future, EV fan persons are going to say that about the heavy metals, et al, etc., that EV exposes us all to & the even greater multitudes of diseases over the current systems!

    But again, to me, it's not about all or nothing fuel sources like we seemed to be siamese joined @ the head to. It's more like 5 to 10 sources: 1. diesel 2. biodiesel 3. gasoline, gasoline hybrid, 4. natural gas, 5. E10 to E85 6. EV 6. hydrogen, etc.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited December 2016
    The benefits of an EV? Inadequate range for trips, inconvenient refueling, exported pollution hidden under hypocritical irresponsible greenie smugness, undeserved tax incentives, and subjectively iffy styling? Sign me up!
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    On the wind production side, the wind generators on the Altamont Pass, CA are all ahead STOP!? I don't know all of the reasons, but I'm sure that it's a combination of current lawsuits, court orders, environmental concerns, owners infighting, and the end of the useful life of the wind generators.

    Indeed the ability to chemically & molecularly make both diesel & gasoline @ the POS, on a 10 ft x 12 ft concrete pad, with access to chemicals & natural gas ( posted more than once on this thread) , SEVERELY curtails the massive process logistics & transportaion logistics needed to go from barrel of oil origin to customer (end user) this cannot be emphasized enough. It is HUGE! Fungibility makes oil "global". But it begs the question: why do global (i.e., 10,000 to 15,000 miles) when it can be done precious feet away?

    The 60% diesel/40% gasoline ratio PVF has been demonstrated both on paper and by Europe (real world) to make all the sense in the world! (LESS barrels of oil consumption)

    The most & ONLY logical conclusion is that our USA market 95% gasoline PVF has been design for far greater, rather than far lesser (barrels of oil ) consumption. This is regardless of what mpg we aspire to!

    The ratio ( Siri, EPA.com: 1 barrel of oil (42 gal) = 19 gals gasoline/13 gal ULSD) is almost silly, stupid to ignorant to deny!
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,681
    Wind production.... good idea! We could recharge the batteries on our EVs using wind..... Just park at the top of a big hill, and never have to plug it in again! :D
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Or put a wind generator blade on the roof, as long as you are moving, you are generating power - just watch out for low overpasses, tunnels, and other cars B)
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,681
    fintail said:

    Or put a wind generator blade on the roof, as long as you are moving, you are generating power - just watch out for low overpasses, tunnels, and other cars B)

    Hahaha. Yes, that's what I intended to imply. :)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    xwesx said:

    fintail said:

    Or put a wind generator blade on the roof, as long as you are moving, you are generating power - just watch out for low overpasses, tunnels, and other cars B)

    Hahaha. Yes, that's what I intended to imply. :)
    Sounds like the perfect perpetual motion machine.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    Electric Cars Are Old News http://www.wsj.com/articles/electric-cars-are-old-news-1481312341

    That was before the 1900's, 116 years ago.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/is-this-the-end-of-big-oil-2016-12-03?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo

    There is too much of a worldwide oil glut. ($ 54.13 pp LSC ) OPEC will have a hard time getting the oil glut down. There target is did not golf 2% of the world production. . NON OPEC producers are promising approximately half the cuts that OPEC produces are promising.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    ruking1 said:

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/is-this-the-end-of-big-oil-2016-12-03?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo

    There is too much of a worldwide oil glut. ($ 54.13 pp LSC ) OPEC will have a hard time getting the oil glut down. There target is did not golf 2% of the world production. . NON OPEC producers are promising approximately half the cuts that OPEC produces are promising.

    Correct to: Their target: chop 2% of the world production.

    Linked is a very interesting article about GM, aka; glut. http://247wallst.com/autos/2016/12/13/gm-inventory-levels-at-8-year-high-more-jobs-threatened/?yptr=yahoo&ref=yfp

    I was reading an article saying that 2016 new car sales @ 17.5 M + might be a stretch. Used car sales @ 44 M are a slam dunk.

    Bottom line: it's a great time for new and used diesels.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2016
    One for y'all (and especially Rocky, wherever he is):

    "Chevy has a real chance to win a large percentage of VW’s loyal core of diesel drivers -- they accounted for roughly 25 percent of VW’s total U.S. sales before the emissions scandal -- with the diesel Cruze and Equinox."

    Why GM should make Chevy's diesels handle like VW's (AutoWeek)

    One for @xwesx (with a nod to @fintail for citing his favorite news source):

    Why logs are twice as dirty as diesel (theguardian.com)

    And one for me: :)

    "Doctors Against Diesel claim 9,400 Londoners a year die prematurely from breathing in toxic fumes from diesel engines."

    Doctors call for ban on diesel engines in London (BBC)

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited December 2016
    9400 a year LOLOLOL, I bet the data and methodology behind that is amusing, and secret.

    The British have a weird collective guilty conscience. I hope it isn't contagious - they've done enough damage.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,681
    edited December 2016
    stever said:

    (AutoWeek)

    One for @xwesx (with a nod to @fintail for citing his favorite news source):

    Why logs are twice as dirty as diesel (theguardian.com)

    That's no surprise to me! I can barely force myself to breathe outdoors in the winter months here. Nearly everyone around us burns wood, and it is stifling. Honestly, it makes me furious that I cannot even enjoy my own property as a result of others burning wood poorly. I keep thinking about how wonderful it would be (for a time) to have an RPG launcher with lots of ammunition. "You want a nice warm fire?! I'll give you a nice warm fire!" LOL
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2016
    A nice big wind farm could keep the smoke away. :)

    Just be glad you aren't down by Homer where they pick coal up off the beach and burn that all winter.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    One for y'all (and especially Rocky, wherever he is):

    "Chevy has a real chance to win a large percentage of VW’s loyal core of diesel drivers -- they accounted for roughly 25 percent of VW’s total U.S. sales before the emissions scandal -- with the diesel Cruze and Equinox."

    I posted it from you on his Face book page.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    A nice big wind farm could keep the smoke away. :)

    Just be glad you aren't down by Homer where they pick coal up off the beach and burn that all winter.

    Fairbanks as you know is a bugger in the winter anyway. 100s of cars left idling at every shop and mall. Wood smoke all trapped in the air. My few times to Fairbanks in the Winter was not my favorite trips. At least with Homer you got the open sea to clear the air.

    I am with Fintail on the London deaths. All wild speculation by bike riding eco nuts. No one with a brain would live in London if they like fresh air. I guess Paris is much worse. Too many people smoking cigarettes.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,681
    Yeah, the environment certainly does not work in our favor here. However, if people were simply considerate about their heating methods, it wouldn't matter so much about *what* they used for heat so much as how they went about using it.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited December 2016
    Paris, along with Rome and much of Greece, is impacted by temperature inversions. I believe London has this, too. This along with their densely settled population and undying business-friendly approach to stinky old commercial diesels gives them pollution. It's not a 2015 diesel car creating the issues, and the issues themselves seem to be tenuous at times.

    I wonder if any regs will change with the new DOE pick, and even the SOS pick. I'm skeptical...but the enemy of my enemy is my friend B)
    gagrice said:


    I am with Fintail on the London deaths. All wild speculation by bike riding eco nuts. No one with a brain would live in London if they like fresh air. I guess Paris is much worse. Too many people smoking cigarettes.

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    More eco victim blather? http://www.wsj.com/articles/shoreline-gentry-are-fake-climate-victims-1480111739?mod=trending_now_2
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2016
    Diesels please?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    Diesel please?

    I guess you know the use of diesel has its enemies in the Political realm. My thinking is they are shills to the fossil fuel industry. Oil companies don't make as much money on diesel cars that get great mileage. That was balanced out with Hybrids. Still an irrelevant portion of the Pollution in this country. VW thought and with some knowledge our EPA was run by intellectually challenged featherbedders. Without the inquiry of the EU eco nuts and the University WV getting involved in the tests VW would have never gotten caught by CARB or the EPA. Further more with all 500k taken off the road they will not be able to measure any difference in the NOx in any place in the USA.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    Essentially, that was confirmed/demonstrated to be true in Los Angeles, by LA County's smog folks.!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    That's the best part of the VW drama - it won't make a difference. Of course, it was never about the air to begin with, it was about breaking the rules and offending big egos.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Thinking of the "xxxx killed" cries by the alarmists, I wonder how many lives are lost in a similar way because of negligently maintained traffic controls causing cars to idle when they could be moving. Or container ship pollution. Or high emission landscaping machinery. Or rare Earth mining. I don't expect bleeding heart hyphenated name British doctors to answer any of that, too difficult, might offend the meal ticket. If one segment has done so much for western civilization in the past 75 years than any other, there it is, just ask Britain, where all of this material seems to come from. A shadow of its former self, now using Orwell as a guidebook for societal management. I don't believe that's a path we should follow.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Reminds me of alkies complaining about cigs when someone wants to take their juice away. :D It's not an either/or proposition.

    That's why you see stories like this one yesterday:

    Port of Long Beach Set to Reduce Harmful Diesel Emissions Thanks to EPA Funding     (lbpost.com)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2016
    Meanwhile the fix is in.

    "Tests conducted by the Joint Research Centre of the European Commission “suggest that Audi has manipulated the diesel engine of its best-seller A3,” Germany’s Sueddeutsche Zeitung wrote today in an exclusive report. The findings are explosive far beyond Volkswagen: Germany’s regulator Kraftfahrtbundesamt also tested the Audi’s diesel-powered A3, and gave it a clean bill of health – after “apparently omitting crucial tests,” the paper writes. EU politicians speak of collusion between governments and automakers."

    Dieselgate: EU Research Suggests Defeat Device In Brand-new Audi A3 (Forbes)

    (SZ is one of @fintail's enjoyable liberal reads in Munich, right up there with the Guardian, I'm sure. :) )
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited December 2016
    Oh, I know what kind of proposition it is. For the hypocritical greenies, it is a one-only proposition - depending on the popular emotion-triggering evil of the day. Nukes, diesel, oil- they will pile on one while ignoring everything else, and them move on. And as usual, the ones who want everyone else to walk or bike and live in a 200 sq ft shoebox with high taxes aren't willing to give up their own private car and nice detached house they often bought for nothing and often gilded pension (as this activism seems to attract a certain demographic). Why should they be taken seriously? But hey, distract from the faults of a beloved group rather than answer to them. It has worked so far, some people make fortunes from it no different from the oil men they hate.

    The Port of Long Beach is using public funds when those updates should be funded by those who make money at the facility. It's a nice gesture, I wonder about the full impact (no doubt a British doctor might claim 9000 lives will be saved because a few dozen old trucks were retired) and Germany isn't far off from Britain, if not somewhat of an Anglo-American puppet state in itself. I notice the Audi claims have no hard data, I wouldn't be surprised if this is another ambient temperature/moisture issue.

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    Here's what some pissed off VW owners are doing before they turn in their TDIs:
    http://jalopnik.com/disgruntled-diesel-vw-owners-are-stripping-their-cars-b-1790053005
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    More details on the Audi testing (and Ford and Citroën have been implicated too).

    "When the technicians restarted the Audi A3 after first warming up the engine, a so-called “warm start,” NOx values rose to 163 mg/km, twice the legal limit.

    “If a vehicle has significantly higher values during a warm test in the European test cycle than in a cold test, then there is strong reason to suspect that there is a defeat device, because you can’t explain this technically,” said Axel Friedrich, a former German government environmental official."

    EU Report Suggests Wider Volkswagen Emissions Cheating     (WSJ, free link at time of posting)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited December 2016
    Not free for me. I suspect this is another ambient temp issue, or real world conditions at a random time observed by those seeking to be offended vs lab conditions.

    Axel Friedrich is a known entity though, another old crusader, ex high ranking public sector now running a greenie NGO. I wonder what he drives, how many square feet are in his house, etc.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    Not a REI tent, tepee or yurt kind of old crusader? :D Sounds like a in the flesh, wanna be!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited December 2016
    He's real in the SJW eco-zealot kind of way. I think he's anti-car, or at least anti-car for cars that aren't 5hp pods controlled by a central planning authority. But I am sure he travels constantly, has a couple of private cars, a spacious house, etc. Living the warrior life.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    I'm glad people are finding out that OPEC has been calling "wolf" all along! (@ least 45 years) I can't wait till ULSD hits $ 1.99 USD per gal or less! Plentiful diesel has an 95% to 97% outrageous buffer in the gasser PVF!

    God bless the Texas frackers! Markets have them in the monies @ $55 to $60 per barrel!?

    The oil supply and demand balance only needs to vary +/- t1 % to 2% maximum to get an "explosion" in gasoline/ULSD $$ prices +/-.

    We are still the KING KONG in natural gas, despite HUGE exports by Canada & Mexico!
  • sdasda Member Posts: 7,579
    I know folks are setting up appointments to turn in their TDIs, but has anyone actually gone thru the process? What was the experience? Did you buy another VW? Just curious.

    2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,565
    sda said:

    I know folks are setting up appointments to turn in their TDIs, but has anyone actually gone thru the process? What was the experience? Did you buy another VW? Just curious.

    Our first scheduled member's appointment is for 12/23, I think. @breld

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  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    sda said:

    I know folks are setting up appointments to turn in their TDIs, but has anyone actually gone thru the process? What was the experience? Did you buy another VW? Just curious.

    Had my wife get the pre-paid 20K mile service early at 18,4XX or so yesterday because it was not registering that we put a gallon of Blue Def in since the last maintenance was done at 10K miles. I guess it took a few startups and miles because the light of impending doom finally went off, but I told her to go in anyway.

    So they either forgot to fill it up with Blue Def at 10K service, or it is a Blue Def GUZZLER drinking exponentially more of the expensive stuff than advertised. Seems like a pending future lawsuit and good reason to sue VW :smile:

    Never mind, doing the buyback early in 2017 :) But I will be pissed if I have to waste one more cent on Blue Def....
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    My Touareg TDI does not use up the reservoir over a 10k mile period. I just bought two 2.5 gallon jugs at Sam's for $10.98 each. Until I have to fill it, all has been under the full maintenance on the Touareg. I don't think it uses much. At most from the 39k miles I have on the vehicle it is far less than 2/10ths of a cent per mile. I just got my final free service and they supposedly topped off the DefBlue. I may not have it long enough to need what I bought. Of course any new diesel will use it. So no loss.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Today I chatted with the salesman who I dealt with for the latest car - he just got back from a training in Alabama at the factory. He said from what he has heard, all upcoming diesel models are indefinitely postponed.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    The wife's coworker turned in their TDI this past Friday. He got the new Jaguar F-Pace, CUV. If folks are interested I'll post when I get more details.
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,184
    ruking1 said:

    The wife's coworker turned in their TDI this past Friday. He got the new Jaguar F-Pace, CUV. If folks are interested I'll post when I get more details.

    Is the F-Pace a diesel? I've heard pretty good things about that engine.

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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    ruking1 said:

    The wife's coworker turned in their TDI this past Friday. He got the new Jaguar F-Pace, CUV. If folks are interested I'll post when I get more details.

    Keep us posted as the first couple of people posting their mileage are doing well. If MB falls off the diesel charts the choices will be diminished. The Jag F-Pace is decent looking to me.


  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    Yes, it's a TDI!

    One baseline is that he used to get 43 mpg on his (newer model) TDI under the Silicon Valley (CA) commute slog vs our 40 mpg. I've discussed in other posts some reasons for the differences. Given what I know, & compared to the 2014 MB GLK 250 BT, I suspect that he'll post close to our 36/38 mpg !
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    On our ongoing saga with the 3.0L TDI settlement. Looks like we may see something soon. I get solicitation from ambulance chasers on a daily basis. I think I will just wait and see what VW and the court decides. I am happy with the SUV and the $1000 they gave me. Anything more is just that, more.

    However under separate discussions with lawyers for consumers, the 3-liter drivers will also likely get extra compensation irrespective of whether their cars are bought back or adjusted.

    http://reviewfortune.com/2016/12/19/volkswagen-ag-adr-could-face-extra-1-billion-fines-in-emission-chaos/
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I forgot that Jaaaag has a couple diesel sedans now in this market, too. 10 years ago, nobody would have imagined they'd be one of the few offerings.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited December 2016
    Since I've one of the oldest 2.0 L affected TDI's & it gets $5,100 emissions penalty, north of that will be utterly awesome! Purely a swag, but $10,200 (+ plus) emissions penalty seems ball park ish for the affected 3.0 L TDI's.

    I also think that IF Jaguar has in mind to be the leader (de facto) in diesel, they will be able to sell all they can/care to import?
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