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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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I don't see the logic of the "enforcement of the law" view, sounds like a cop out. The authorities are well paid and operate in a virtual void of accountability. More like cop sets up a speed trap nailing people for going 5 over while there's a crackhouse selling to 12 year olds a block away.
I still say VW should have just lobbied their way into different regulations instead of cheating - might not have cost anything more, either. Good enough for commercial vehicles, right?
The Q7 is a very heavy vehicle, so I'm sure that has to take its toll on the final tally.
What tends to get glossed over is thebetter TDI torque: 295/325 # ft vs 406 # ft.
Advantages DIESEL!
Finally 80 mph, a more real world speed limit? http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/wireStory/nevada-joins-handful-states-spans-80-mph-driving-47391917
In all but the slow lanes & so call transition lanes, higher speeds seems more the "rule" than the exceptions?
That being said, one of the perennial classiest cars on the market is the E wagon.
Classy or not, SW's are still (after many decades) not big sellers. Not enough for even gassers SW's to hit the markets in any significant numbers. That can present opportunities.
That being said, the Jetta/Golf SW's (TDI & gas) have rabid, approaching religious followings !
I'm not sure what motivated this, but 39.12 mpg (12.5 gal no low fuel lamp) 489 miles.
Most suburbanites in mild climates don't need the height, but they want it.
SWs still have a dull image to the masses, even if the CUV is now the drone-mobile de rigueur and SUVs are mostly mommy-mobile to enthusiasts.
Roll overs are VERY rare!
They obvious don't want nor need station wagons.
I take it you'd want the station wagon to be the drone-mobile de riguer with Hillary Clinton's YUGE BLACK SUV's to be the mommy mobile?
To me, it in the face of the enviromental conservatives narrative that small compact sedans are what the masses should be forced to buy & drive.
It's about want. Most SUV activities for suburban drones who need an SUV can be competently completed in a wagon. Those big black SUVs are gasoline-estrogen dual fuel vehicles - in my area, if the Stepford demographic isn't in a Model X or GL/Range Rover etc, they are in a big Escalade or Denali etc.
Fortunately, nobody is really forced to drive anything.
It's about want? Yes & no. I'm sure there are a lot of folks that want to buy new that do not, or buy new quicker & do not, for two examples. Obviously, not many agree with your must use wagons or environmental conservatives postage stamp sized ultra compact cars opinions: to be shamed by or conform with elitist put downs.
Indeed, no one is forced to drive anything! So, viva la difference!
Most aspects of most cars are wants. That's the great thing about a mostly (but as we both know via this thread alone, not completely) free automotive market - you can choose what you want, not just what you need. If someone is secure in choosing their want, they won't care about the opinions of bystanders. It's when those bystanders make even minor points that the wants-choosers sometimes get a bit defensive.
Vive la difference, low wagon demand makes them nice used deals.
Again, it is still yes & no. Here's a FORD issue that wishes it was only about want. (4 others polled) https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/05/02/ford-us-sales-april-2017.aspx?ref=yfp
Yup! So are sweet deals made with over abundances of cars, ...nobody wants to buy. It's also true about many popular cars; like Chevrolet Impalas, etc.
There are other ways too! I got four diesels that way: & didn't care what anybody else thought.
Dieselgate fallout will probably depress modern used diesel passenger car prices indefinitely. My own snooping around doesn't see especially strong E Bluetec resale value, especially as later run vehicles come off lease. Only diehards will be into it.
Diesel gate, to me will be a forgotten blip at most in a few years! Right now, If one conducted a poll, what % & who will remember the "2004 Prius"brouhaha & juggle the numbers/ procedures to give hybrid better EPA mpg" gate numbers?
Whether diesel gate will affect used diesel resale values is in flux. Indeed, too many new cars in inventory can crush used car prices.
I have a fear that dieselgate will be forgotten the same day diesel passenger car sales are ceased here. The Prius stuff, or even unintended acceleration, is ignored, as the authorities didn't crucify it, and media didn't run with it much. I think we have at least a couple years before people don't have snark about VW, and who knows what the feds might do.
I think the amount of leasing these days also depresses used values.
China has purchased the most EV vehicles in the world. It also has legendary air pollution ! Yet diesel car population is close to nonexistent.
One inconvenient truth: the EIA.gov gasoline 19 gal / 13 gal diesel yield from a barrel of oil. It's been this way since before John D. Rockefeller formed Standard Oil.
The KILLER conversion procedure would be all gasoline, all diesel!
Building (only) molecular gasoline, diesel already exists! For some reason (can't even know why) it's having a hard time getting off the ground.
Sure, they want to kill diesel & use only the 19 gals of gasoline. What are they (refiners) going to do with the 13 gallons of diesel? With 95 to 97% of the US PVF being gasoline, there is a much greater demand for more barrels of oil than IF the PVF were 40 % gasoline /60 % diesels. Do I want 60% diesel PVF ? Why would I !? Why would I want to end this circus? So the call for the European's to decimate their diesel PVF's is a thinly veiled call to consume WAY more barrels of oil: gasoline.
My take on the VW "diesel gate"? Either VW corporate was told, or it had figured out the price to move forward & continue to be the number 1 auto oem in the world was to do the EV passion play & "kill dah beast" (TDI's) The cost on the "kill the beast" production was figured out @ about $21 billion. The stock market was primed to transfer the/these risks to unsuspecting stockholders. Then the dog & pony show was launched. I'm sure they're also secured MASSIVE tax credits & write off's in the killing of the beast production brouhaha. If they were not able to secure @ least $ 42 B in tax credits/write offs, they are not using high quality tax firms.
It really puts normally smart people defending stupid notions like 22 mpg gasoline is way better than 36 mpg diesel!? As if that is not stupid enough, in that "perfect world", what it means in English: that for every 19 gallons of gasoline consumed, the magic wand wastes 13 gallons of diesel.
So for example if 47 plus barrels of oil are needed for the gasser (example) Audi Q7, how many MORE barrels of oil are required, running (your) diesel Ans: ZERO.
So to state the obvious, a PVF of 50/50 Q7's uses only 47 barrels of oil. Two gas Audi Q7's will require 94 barrels of oil with 1,250 gals of diesel fuel left over.
Again advantage diesel!
Most Americans don't like diesel cars. Never have, never will. It's a Euro thing, brought about by the significant advantage in fuel prices between diesel and gasoline. American drivers enjoy no such advantage, and with gasoline engines reaching diesel MPG numbers (Honda Civic is pulling 42 mpg), buyer motivation continues to evaporate.
You can't give people 2 hour powerpoint demonstrations in the car showroom explaining the rather obscure advantages diesels have. Americans "just don't get it".
Those few that do, buy one.
Yup! My 2004 Honda Civic continues to pull down 38 to 42 mp (200,000 miles plus) It was falling off a tad till we had to do a $400 intake fix. What you are noting/saying: the mpg hasn't improved in 13 years!!! The 2003 VW Jetta TDI posts 48 to 52 mpg. I've doubled the oem recommended air filter change. To beat a dead horse 24% better! (4,762 gal- 3,846 = 916 gal) The combination gas/diesel used LESS oil, than if both were gassers. (251 barrels vs 502 barrels.
I'd hate to think of the cost to replace just the tire to 4, let alone 1/2 forged oem rims, omg suspension repairs, on say a 2001 Chevrolet Corvette Z06.
But, it isn't, and it doesn't.
As my wife says, that's why they make chocolate and vanilla ice cream - so you have a choice. And, apparently, 95-98% of the PVF buyers have chosen gas over diesel.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
I've never said I'm anti-diesel. My folks owned a MB 220D when I was in HS. And, I wouldn't mind finding a nice used 328d or 335d if I could fit it into my budget (both purchase and maintenance wise).
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The real problem is that diesel cars have no real attributes to pitch anymore--at one time they did--you could run a full-size diesel Mercedes for a lot less fuel costs than a full-size gas Mercedes. So they were a success.
But now, the gap in fuel savings and the advantages of a diesel car are nearly indiscernible. So, to my mind, without some dramatic new diesel breakthrough, they are going to wither on the vine.
Same thing happened to the rotary engine. Buyers couldn't figure out the advantage of owning one, other than novelty. Yes, they were fun, yes they even won Lemans--but nobody cared. The buyers were asking "So what's in it for me?"
the only real possibility would be very large and heavy diesel-powered luxury passenger cars--but Americans definitely do not want that.
So for me, parity would be 36 mpg = 36 mpg & 369 # ft = 369 # ft! Till then,... advantage diesels!
Even better would be gasoline 59 mpg vs 36 mpg diesel. Gasoline 465 # ft vs 369# ft diesel! This to me would be advantage: GASOLINE!
I've barely ever scraped an air dam in my life, it's all about the approach angle. Not a new thing, I've scraped in old cars too - even my fintail hates my mom's driveway that her Camry can plow through - scrapes at rear, not front.
I just don't feel any safer or sitting high, even a nice X5 feels kind of ponderous to me. Maybe I need to try a G-Wagen, a diesel Euro import, of course
It's pretty amazing to me that NHTSA is silent about this "safety" issue. Compact (small but less than better designed) cars have greater injury/fatality rates. Still it needs to be said that for a myriad of reasons, the safety record is the best that it has been since it has been recorded.
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/iihs-tightens-criteria-for-recommended-used-vehicles-for-teens
For how much cars cost these days, plus the advent of way higher body & mechanical repair costs, a "higher under carriage height" can be $$ body & damage saver. A taller vehicle can be easier to ingress/egress. It also can be easier & of comfort to be higher up for vision purposes. So to the extent it aids one to be more observant, it's good. To the extent that it makes one lazy, to encouraging distracted driving, it's bad.
Indeed, some to a lot of the diesel scheduled maintenance can easily & safely be doubled to more! One example (which I've posted more than once) are 10,000 miles oem recommended OCI's to 30,000 miles OCI's. This advantage to me, saves time, effort, $$'s, provides better protection, uses way less refined resources, etc. So to me, in real world practice: advantage diesel !
Further you & I both know that IF one has NOT documented engine issues (due to oil issues), during warranty, it expires 00,001 miles over ! (the warranty) Does one need belt & suspenders in addition to,... belt & suspenders? NO PROBLEM! Do UOA's (used oil analysis)! Bobistheoilguy.com
Of course, why change oil @ 30,000 miles when 5,000 miles will do !? I've always (understood the mantra)."gotten" that! Actually for 60 years! For a good part of the 60 years exceed 2,500 to 3,000 miles & one might be taking a chance on an engine EXPLODING! It's been an old wives/husbands tale for a very long time !
Am I out guessing the factory engineers? Absolutely not! Indeed, it is been that way since 2003 VW Jetta TDI,(16 years) that I'm acquainted.
Oil engineers/oil vendors design their products to meet & exceed OEM "extended oil intevals" specifications! (in my case: MB 229.52 & VW 507.00) That interval is usually included in the specifications, but not normally published! for obvious reasons !? IF the oil OEMs do not meet specificationso, their oils do NOT get certified.
Again TDI VW 507.00, MB 229.52. http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.52_en.html
Even Mobil One specifies 20,000 miles (1 yr) for gassers!! I've been running 20,000 miles Mobil One OCI's for 930,000 gasser miles!? https://mobiloil.com/en Yes the naysayers still calling for engine EXPLOSIONS.
So for one example, the nay sayers are still waiting for my (Total specs for,... 30,000 miles OCI's) 2003/2009VW Jetta TDI's with almost 200,000/145,000 miles to ...blow up! To them or others with like attitudes, get over it already !
If a more TMI discussion is in order, be happy to! I'm happy to explain that or point references for the greater board.
I'm a little taken aback as to why it appears to be needed to be explained to somebody (like you) who's been in the car business for many many years. To my mind, somebody like you should be able to explain it better, far better than I, a mere consumer.
Go WARRIORS ! But hopefully they don't throw it like the Mark Cuban, (Hillary shrill) owned Dallas club!? https://sports.yahoo.com/news/mark-cuban-eliminated-playoffs-everything-possible-lose-games-174335008.html
Back in the day, doing something like this would be a series of grave felons!!! ??? Seems the basketball monopoly is tone deaf here.
Mobil One good news.... COUPONS! https://mobiloil.com/en/promotion/mobil-promotions
Diesel (oil) will be a force for a very long time! Costs per barrel are being lowered, as the PRICE per barrel are being lowered. Shale can be profitable@ $27 to $40 to $50 per.
EV costs per kWh are going higher! 37 cents per kWh in CA, for example. Why would higher cost per mile driven: fuel & depreciation be an incentive to switch?
Too bad gas hybrid CUV's like the well rated 2014 Toyota (gas hybrid) Highlander offer no real incentives @ 26 mpg over the super well rated gas Toyota gas Highlander @ 23 mpg. (13%)
Even Edmunds.com says the premium on the 2017 Toyota Highlander hybrid will probably not pay for mpg advantage over the 2017 Toyota Highlander gas.
You could say it was for the greater good. This phenomenon is at the heart of good Capitalism. For instance, hotels and motels are over burdened and taxed to death passing those taxes and fees onto consumers. Enter Air BnB and people renting out their homes one week at a time. It just wouldn't have worked if government hadn't over regulated in the first place. Now they want to over tax these home owners the same as the hotel industry to even the playing field. Why not just stop over taxing the hotels to do that?
Private room/house rentals make unaffordable housing markets even tighter, and should be taxed and regulated, as "the masses" suffer for it. Homeowners already get insane mortgage deductions and do not deserve breaks for often simply being lucky by birth or timing.
Example:
They will use data from non camera equipped intersections with lower accident rates to bolster the higher accident rates of intersections equipped with red-light cameras. They combine the data under the theory that red light cameras have a halo-effect on safety for the surrounding neighborhood.
This theory has obviously never been proven, nor will it ever be proven. It is absurd.
I find Kia/Hyundai lying about fuel economy or HP figures to be much more egregious a violation, as they are hurting their customer by promising benefits that the product doesn't live up to. It seems to me VW did consumers a favor, in a way. Although it was a bubble that burst when the cheat was found out.
I think un-taxing hotels would achieve the same effect as taxing homeowners for short-term rentals. The same way I think lowering prices, lowering inflation or having deflation, would achieve what $15/hour minimum wage supporters want.