What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

gagrice

The TESLA plant up the highway is "another chalk board screeching"?

Not to mention they are well above the national average for industrial accidents.

Worksafe analyzed the last three years of data from Tesla’s OSHA 300 form, a federally-mandated log of workplace accidents. According to its analysis, Tesla’s total injury rate was nearly a third higher than industry average, with nearly one in ten workers experiencing an injury in 2016.

http://bgr.com/2017/05/25/tesla-factory-jobs-union-report/

ruking1

I think the greater whole of the new "EV" infratruture build UP & (subsequent duplicate - oil) build out is at the minimum as consumptive as the old one it is purported to replace! Electrical power loses YUGE amounts & percentages of kWh @ each & every stage of the logistical chain, over & above the old, as "wasteful" as that has been documented to be!

Indeed the TESLA documentation indicates far worse than gassers!

The Martinez, CA refinery, circa 1915 currently owned by Shell Oil Company , is 102 years old. It will in all likelihood be here another 102 years only bigger & with far greater process capacity!!

CA the green state would not DARE to close it, & LOSE the steady revenue?!!! Oh pleazzzzzeeee (800,000 barrels + plus per DAY)
http://www.spur.org/news/2017-02-08/how-can-bay-area-s-aging-oil-refineries-meet-california-s-new-climate-goals
Oh & here is another one close by! https://www.valero.com/en-us/Pages/Benicia.aspx

OMG! Here's another one !? (Chevron) from 1902, only 115 years old! John D. Rockefeller would be proud?! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron_Richmond_Refinery

No one dares answer the question: what will be done with just the 5 refineries 5 Bay Area CA city produced diesel, 10,400,000 gals..... per DAY??? 3.8 B gals per year!! ???

Why does it make ANY sense to ship the now locally produced ULSD product BACK to where it probably came from, in barrel form?

ruking1

How about them oil traders!!!? https://finance.yahoo.com/news/oversold-oil-traders-punish-opec-060338427.html

Go oil traders & USA frackere!!!

fintail

That's a problem with cartels, they can be hard to control. I feel so sorry for these guys, who work so hard and put the money to such good use.

ruking1

fintail said:

That's a problem with cartels, they can be hard to control. I feel so sorry for these guys, who work so hard and put the money to such good use.

Leslie Stahl, of CBS network quoted a Saudi oil minister pegging < LESS than $2.00 a barrel to bring UP.to market! ( @8.25 minute) https://youtu.be/GP6DhKGDzek

https://youtu.be/D1t4ue-WmlU

To think the USA uses only 9% of the world oil!!! The truth is we don't need a drop of Saudi Arabian oil!!

Yes! It's almost like watching "The World Poker Tour". The funny difference would be one of their two buried cards is taped to their foreheads. It can be seen by fellow players & audience except them!!? My guess is liars poker ( real barrels of oil sales ) are way greater than what any "playa" is saying!

The environmental conservatives benefited from the yearly "LACK & climate change " etc.,fictions & fake apocalyptic movies "!!! They even wanted to sell "cutting use" as using 106 barrels when demanding 100 barrels!

The undisputed truth & unavoidable consequence: each barrel of refined oil yields 13 gals of ULSD & 19 gal of gasoline; so called RUG/PUG !! (many other products = 13 gal more, also)

Local Memorial Day special $.34.2 cents per mile driven deprecation/ownership, 10,500 miles per year, $299 per mo/36 mo. $4,745 due @ signing, (.15 cents extra) (only one @ these terms) 2017 Ford Explorer, NOT included tax & license.

Cpmd: depreciation/ lease/ownership appears to be $.493 cents.

fintail

They are like Jed Clampett in that part of the world, it costs nothing to recover. Throw a lawn dart and strike oil.

That's something I am amused by, how the US really not dependent on foreign oil. If worse comes to worse, just invade Canada Euroland and a few others have the greater dependence. And of course, no word on what happens to the electrical grid and power generation if everyone jumps to EVs, we'll just keep kicking that can down the road,

gagrice

And of course, no word on what happens to the electrical grid and power generation if everyone jumps to EVs, we'll just keep kicking that can down the road,

The Eco Nuts have that all figured out. We all charge our EVs at night from our solar panels. :@

ruking1

Indeed!

The 50/50 gasoline/diesel PVF "optimizes" (decreases) the barrel of oil demand. Any % shift to gasoline INCREASES the barrel of oil demand. So by defacto default, if the EPA/CARB wants to kill or decimate diesel, it really wants to increase gasoline demand by 3 to 5 %. Of course, US PVF is @ 95 to 97% gasoline.

The US has NEVER been dependent on foreign oil! ANYTHING it wants, needs can be handled domestically..

The EU makes itself further dependent on foreign oil, especially Russia, with any PVF % gasoline shift, nuclear power plant decommissioning etc. !! Germany, as you know committed to shuttering all of theirs. Coal will further be the go to fuel for ANY % shift to EV, wind, solar, hydro, geothermal, etc., etc. I'm not sure what role natural gas will play.

ruking1

Slow diesel news day!

Oil glut, glut, glut!

Costco, Folsom,CA

$2.65 ULSD, $2.81 RUG, $3.11 PUG

Even with the glut, & lower prices; less US miles are being posted! The 2014 NHTSA data are now in arrears 2 yrs. https://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

CA PGE rates are @ .37 cents per kWh. http://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Renewable-Energy/Is-The-US-Getting-Left-Behind-In-The-Renewable-Race.html

Using their math EV is .12 cents & greater cpmd: fuel vs 7 cents cpmd: fuel or 71% more.

gagrice

Tesla S owners claim 3 miles to the KWH without AC running. Matches your figures closely. I am not ready for all that high tech stuff that can leave you stranded for any number of reasons. A car that costs $130,000 should be better engineered.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/01/16/tesla-driver-stranded-desert-smartphone-app-failure/

ruking1

Here are non-soundbite able truths about EV vehicles. http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Inconvenient-Truth-About-Electric-Vehicles.html

ruking1

Sub $40. per barrel through 2018? http://www.businessinsider.com/jp-morgan-says-crude-prices-are-going-substantially-lower-2017-5?ref=yfp

So unless the economy can rise from the dead, miles will probably stagnate.

gagrice

So unless the economy can rise from the dead, miles will probably stagnate

According to one reporter the economy is booming and causing more auto deaths.

fintail

If one lives in a real city, especially a coastal city (but even many inland cities are booming), indeed, the economy is light years from being dead. Many coastal cities are experiencing boom times of unprecedented duration. Even if the rewards of this economy are distributed in a way that resembles France in 1785, it beats the alternative that unfortunately is being experienced by other areas. This boom causes more traffic, which causes more congestion and fuel consumption, as most of this continent lacks first world quality transit. More traffic leads to more net casualties (not always per capita), and distracted driving and lack of enforcement of such are only making it worse.

The job boom might not be permanent though, if our beloved rotting pumpkin can start a trade war, all bets are off That might also impact the amount of efficient diesel vehicles available from regions which know how to make products people want.

ruking1

Over the past 16 years, aka, the Bush/Obama administrations, the growth has been approximately @ MOST one percent per year. "Rising from the dead" would be 2/3/4 % per year as "targeted/promised" by the current administration

Arguably, CA has a selectively robust economy. CA has over 29 M vehicles of he US PVF, 2015. https://www.statista.com/statistics/191011/registered-private-and-commercial-us-motor-vehicles-by-state-2009/ CA has long labeled itself the biggest & most important car market in the USA.

Compared to the US passenger vehicle fleet of 374.8 million (2014 NHTSA) CA's 29 M PVF is app 7.6 % of the US PVF. The remaining AVERAGE (arithmetic ) would then leave 7.05 M, or 1.88% passenger per state (49).

fintail

An overall growth rate over that period is going to be impossible due to the several year near-depression caused by the brave warriors in the FIRE industries, along with their government lackeys and servants. But employment stats and housing prices in fortunate areas tell a story too. There's definitely a healthy economy out there, it just doesn't exist in all areas. I doubt the trickle down tales of the new regime are going to create an overall growth rate to save those places either. I don't see the economy driving oil upward - it will take consolidated cartel action (unlikely) or geopolitical drama (more likely).

ruking1

Absolutely yes! If the middle class crash, fake employment figures factors are considered, it's probably MINUS -.

The "new" regime will HAVE to benefit "your so called fortunate areas"!! It will probably benefit "it" more so than less fortunate areas!!??

There are too many entrenched factors on both political & non political sides against anything near 2%, let alone 3/4/5 % US economic growth.

Nothing against Starbucks nor its workforce, but when a large % of folks with BA's & up are baristas, there has to be more than a few anomalies in the marketplaces!!

If we look to the VW plant in Chattanooga TN, it took nearly $7 B & 4/5/6 YEARS to create app 2,000 middle class jobs! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Chattanooga_Assembly_Plant

So to build the (1.9 M sq ft) plant at $1 B, VW spent $500,000 per employee.

As mentioned before, the Chattanooga, TN plant was specifically built to assemble US market VW Passats, (Camry, Accord, etc. competitor). It's pivot to % CUV 's has been LONG urged & in coming!

So for a new car plant started today, the first POTUS administration's first term would have come & gone.

So to me, all this & more gives diesel cars enormous & way under rated advantages!! Ive posted a few on this topic site.

What more can I really say about 2 diesels, (bought NEW, CPMD: depreciation) with costs of .00857 cents (8.57 tenths of 1 cent) for 210,000 miles?

fintail

It'd be interesting to see real growth rates for the past 35-40 or so years, since class warfare broke out - a war against the middle class from the class above, of course. If it was anything more than a solid provable 2%, I would be shocked and skeptical. I won't even get into employment, everyone fudges it, including the shock jocks with phony "real" numbers that count students and 55 year old retirees. Regarding BAs, it all depends on the degree. Some degrees can be a gold mine, others, not so much. Or people can just get into certain public sector areas where it doesn't matter once you've been there a few years - an elephant in the room nobody will touch.

The prior regime failed the less fortunate areas (hence it failed an election). and I suspect the new regime will fail in the same way. Funny thing, I suspect diesel cars are more of a fixture in fortunate areas, as many of them are from premium or semi-premium brands.

ruking1

All the Dems need do is stop/ frustrate Trump from creating jobs. This would almost guarantee another 4 year term. So, it's pretty easy to predict the coming tsunami, when the minimum wage jumps to $15. per hour passed during last administration. First thing they (eateries,etc.) have to do is @ least double the prices. IF (no really, it's a matter of when) there is market resistance, they will have to have "staffing cuts". Truthfully the toll will be YUGE!

Your diesel car suspicions may be spot on.

But IF @ 29 M PVF, CA state is the LARGEST, 3 to 5% diesels are 870,000 to 1.45 M units of 11.244 M to 18.74 M. This (mathematically, even in CA) leaves the majority of diesels ...spread out (rest of 49 states) !?

910 # ft of torque!!?? AW AW AW! https://www.yahoo.com/news/2017-gmc-sierra-2500hd-diesel-224500154.html

Diesel is "high" @ $2.65 per gal !? I'm looking forward to $2.50 & lower.! We are getting 2 diesel vehicles cut, forced by government mandate. 2/5 days are in the real world, cut off my wife's office commute !! Mine has been 5/5 days @ home for 16 years, except for client meetings (240,000 miles saved) My daughter has for a year works one day from home! (or wherever) Amazon increasingly delivers more stuff, saving even more mileage. Yet the environmental conservatives keep fiction alive: the air is even dirtier than before!

Life is good!

ruking1

http://blog.caranddriver.com/hot-commodity-late-model-volkswagen-tdis-new-or-used-are-rare-and-selling-for-a-bundle/?ref=yfp

VW TDI's !

fintail

VW diesel people are pretty devoted. Not a cult like Tesla or a goofy club like Prius, but still something.

xwesx

Wow. I have been casually thinking about keeping an eye out for my '13 Passat when it comes back on the market, but if I have to pay anything near (or more than) what I paid the first time around for it, that's just not gonna happen!

gagrice

fintail said:

VW diesel people are pretty devoted. Not a cult like Tesla or a goofy club like Prius, but still something.

I am a devoted Diesel fan. No matter what the brand as long as it delivers that wonderful driving experience and 600 miles on a tank of fuel.

gagrice

No one ever accused the people running CA of being very bright. Now here is a good example. I just got my license renewal notice. I have to get my Touareg TDI smogged. Even though they know it is a meaningless test? The sooner I can get us out of this state the better. Met so many people living in Hawaii that got out of CA because of the taxes and
Idiots that run the state.

ruking1

Slow diesel news day!

As soon as I send in the VW required paper work, it's a local dealer 2009 VW Jetta TDI turn in ! Monies are promised to hit designated account! $ Values frozen @ NADA/KBB Sep 2015 ($12,975). Add on Bosch $$'s, $1,500. Other various penalties TBD. Good will (&1,000) VW Road Assist ($360) & IRS tax credits ($1,300) given.

Trouble in gasser land? https://finance.yahoo.com/news/carmakers-playing-dangerous-game-comes-134919014.html

Can 2017 MY sales hit 2015 MY 17 M, 2016 MY 17.5 M !?

ruking1

11.5 years average age of the vehicle fleet . An interesting sky is NOT falling 2017 auto sales article. http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/nissan-us-sales-pct-bring-1st-gain-year-47767074

@ 12,000 to 15,000 miles per year: AVERAGE = 138,000 miles to 172,500 miles!

..."The average age of a vehicle on U.S. roads has inched up to about 11.5 years, indicating people are holding onto their cars and trucks longer due to higher quality and reliability from all automakers, further slowing sales of new vehicles, Libby said.". C

ruking1

Interesting that cars are more DEADLY than "SUV's" http://www.cbsnews.com/news/7-of-the-deadliest-cars-on-the-road/?ref=yfp

Interesting that a lot of SUVs are considered safe!

fintail

Small cheap cars are more dangerous? No way!

It'd be interesting to see what is deadly in terms of who causes the casualties.

ruking1

Numbers are there! Run em! One probably doesnt, as it probably puts holes in ones biases. Multiple car collision #'s might be more opaque. However, if one subscribes to only large cars to light trucks are the cause &/or vice versa: small to midsize cars, one would be wrong!

But I think the 25 % small car to 75% plus large car to light trucks PVF will tend to skew numbers & %. IF small cars were indeed safer, the environmental conservatives would probably use the "smaller is safer" mantra relentlessly. Curiously they do not!

Anecdotally, I've app 684,000 miles in small cars with ZERO safety issues or concerns! However, I've been always been aware that smaller cars can be more dangerous in multiple car crashes, roll.overs & single car fatalities.

fintail

Numbers based on vehicle type in a collision (car, CUV, SUV, who vs who, who is at fault, etc) would be the most useful, but I doubt that exists anywhere. I doubt anyone would argue that small cars are safer, although they might not actually be causing the casualties. I generally don't own a small car not out of safety, but comfort. If a medium/large car has the same mpg and more comfort, I'd rather go that way. Diesel really has the advantage in heavier vehicles too.

ruking1

Yes. I'm sure it does, but it is way past sound bite able. The argument was not that small cars were causing the majority of accidents. So I'm not sure how one got off on that tangent. Indeed there are many factors & many ways to equalize. So I'm sure you would agree diesels have the advantage, i.e., @ 22 mpg vs 36 mpg diesel (like model). 40% to 50% gas/60 % to 50% diesel PVF would YUGELY drop PVF oil demand!

Indeed just a PVF reversal to 75% small gasser cars 25% large cars to light trucks could never achieve the drop in fuel consumption that smaller to larger diesel cars PVF could & still can! Another environmental conservatives failed myth exposed. Indeed, small cars of today are in fact LARGER than small cars & some of the large cars of yesteryear.

On the VW buyback topic, we are in two separate hurry up & wait procedure queues. (2.0L, 3.0 L) I will post as progression happens. On the 2.0 L, the 7 page settlement papers have been sent back to VW. On the 3.0 L, the qualification and documentation information has been uploaded.

ruking1

Oil prices sliding?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-prices-collapse-eia-reports-150211884.html

gagrice

fintail said:

Numbers based on vehicle type in a collision (car, CUV, SUV, who vs who, who is at fault, etc) would be the most useful, but I doubt that exists anywhere. I doubt anyone would argue that small cars are safer, although they might not actually be causing the casualties. I generally don't own a small car not out of safety, but comfort. If a medium/large car has the same mpg and more comfort, I'd rather go that way. Diesel really has the advantage in heavier vehicles too.

Police reports don't put blame in multi car accidents. It is left up to the courts of insurance companies to assess. However, my experience on the roads of America lead me to believe, small cars cause most of the multi-car collisions. Their drivers have more tendency to dart in and out of their lanes. On ice and snow it seems SUVs and 4x4 PU trucks cause a lot of accidents with the drivers thinking they have better control. More single vehicle crashes and rollovers.

gagrice

My diesel smog test went very fast yesterday. Drove in to my usual smog tester. He aimed me for the slot. In and out in less than 15 minutes and $48 lighter in the wallet. Thanks to the IDIOTS in CA. Sniff test, Computer check for any modifications or fault codes and away we go. Went online to DMV and tags are on the way. Total wasted to drive another year in the People's Socialist Republic of California, $330. I cuss the state every time I swerve around the potholes. Money NOT well spent. Get me out of here....

Also got my haircut after being gone to Hawaii nearly a month. My barber told me at least 10 of her customers have left for TX or AZ to get away from the high taxes on everything.

One positive about CA. Diesel is still cheaper than RUG at most stations. Filled after my smog test for $2.61 a gallon. RUG at that Union 76 station was $2.77.

ruking1

$2.55 ULSD, $2.75 RUG, $2.95 PUG, COSTCO, Folsom, CA.

2012 Touareg TDI (buyback in my case) paperwork is ready for (download &) notaries. One can choose to scan-upload, USPO snail mail, or FAX the executions.

andres3

that reminds me.... either VW or DMV dropped the ball the paper work administration with our former TDI that we no longer own. The buyback means VW owns it, but the DMV is keeping the USPS in business by wasting postage sending us numerous notices that our registration is due, overdue, and/or past due and expired.

We should probably write an email into their system, I really don't have the energy to do much more.

kyfdx

andres3 said:

that reminds me.... either VW or DMV dropped the ball the paper work administration with our former TDI that we no longer own. The buyback means VW owns it, but the DMV is keeping the USPS in business by wasting postage sending us numerous notices that our registration is due, overdue, and/or past due and expired.

We should probably write an email into their system, I really don't have the energy to do much more.

Where we live, it's up to the owner to let DMV know that they no longer own the vehicle. How is the DMV supposed to find out, otherwise? VW isn't going to register the vehicle.

ruking1

Thanks for the heads up. Since we uploaded both sides of the pink slips, we still retain the physical documents. I know that we have to fill the portion indicating the new owners & mail to the DMV, as soon as the funds hit the accounts. .

ruking1

kyfdx said:

andres3 said:

that reminds me.... either VW or DMV dropped the ball the paper work administration with our former TDI that we no longer own. The buyback means VW owns it, but the DMV is keeping the USPS in business by wasting postage sending us numerous notices that our registration is due, overdue, and/or past due and expired.

We should probably write an email into their system, I really don't have the energy to do much more.

Where we live, it's up to the owner to let DMV know that they no longer own the vehicle. How is the DMV supposed to find out, otherwise? VW isn't going to register the vehicle.

The responses of the DMVs indicates that it is not the " bee in the environmental bonnet" it's been made out to be!? Indeed, (this one @ least & Gagrices CA DMV) it seems more concerned with the various fees & penalties & FAKE emissions inspections.

gagrice

In CA when you sell or trade a vehicle to a dealer they have you fill out a transfer taking the car out of your name with the state. We traded my wife's old Honda Accord in on a new Escort around 1990. The Accord was still running. My wife drove it three years with the expired Minnesota plates on it. Never licensed it in CA. Three years after trading the Accord in we get a call from the Highway Patrol in Northern CA. it was abandoned after an accident, still with the out dated MN plates on it. I assured them we traded it to the Ford Dealer here. Last we heard about it. Drew Ford likely auctioned it off. It was bought as is and never licensed.

ruking1

This gets back to @ least 2 points I've been saying all along!

Gagrice's example indicates @ least 27 years have past with zero controls (emissions controls seemingly way down the priority lists) . In effect, governments could care less & really don't care @ all!!!?? Why he got notified @ all when they've all ready have had the cars transferences of title information, which further they have control of both sides is mystifying!

The monies that VW owners are receiving seem to be the lowest of the lowball $$ figures governments can negotiate without setting themselves up to getting convicted of governments "TAKING" (using powers of eminent domain) without offering "fair market value!!?? (FMV)

The real smoking guns literally hidden in plain sight & is also the visible elephant in the small room are the diesel emissions tests due @ transference, biannually, etc., & the removal of emissions exemptions some years ago. To my mind ( my opinion only) they should have kept diesel exemptions & if "cheating" were a REAL issue, have sample tested some all along.

In the case of VW, Governments have set them up to be the total bad guys, felons. So if they are the total bad guys, felony cheats, thieves gross polluters, etc, why are they letting them run any portion of the $$ remediations? What do we now have the lovable Sergeant Schultz as VW CFO? Or maybe crafty Col Hogan USA, as the projects director?

andres3

kyfdx said:

andres3 said:

that reminds me.... either VW or DMV dropped the ball the paper work administration with our former TDI that we no longer own. The buyback means VW owns it, but the DMV is keeping the USPS in business by wasting postage sending us numerous notices that our registration is due, overdue, and/or past due and expired.

We should probably write an email into their system, I really don't have the energy to do much more.

Where we live, it's up to the owner to let DMV know that they no longer own the vehicle. How is the DMV supposed to find out, otherwise? VW isn't going to register the vehicle.

Hmmm....never had a problem with any other sale, private or trade. Didn't know VW could get away with not registering the car. Either way, the dealership should have handled the necessary paperwork just like they do with trade-ins. Maybe they did and the DMV "lost the paperwork." Hard to know for sure unless this is happening with thousands of TDI's.

kyfdx

If this was part of the VW diesel buyback, the dealer had no part in it, other than to provide office space to the buyback coordinator. That was pretty clear.

andres3

I know I filled out the DMV form to report an accident of greater than $750 damage with my Audi S4, and put it in the USPS mailbox with a stamp/postage on it. So either the USPS lost the letter, the DMV "lost" the letter, or Carfax didn't pay attention to DMV records, because the accident never did dirty the Carfax.

I have a rather low opinion of all three of those agencies, so I blame all 3 equally. If I had to pick one that probably isn't at fault, it would actually be the USPS; they seemed to have improved since the 20th Century, whereas the others have shown a lack of any improvements.

andres3

kyfdx said:

If this was part of the VW diesel buyback, the dealer had no part in it, other than to provide office space to the buyback coordinator. That was pretty clear.

OK, your right. So the buyback coordinator should have handled the DMV paperwork IMO, and he works for VW of America. VW of America owns the TDI; maybe they should have been forced to register it since they couldn't sell it until (and only if) the emissions were approved.

ruking1

Lol! I for one don't want either of my affected diesels to show up on some ISIS or CNN short video clips, like Toyota & Nissan trucks! I still remember the old truck of a plumbing shop in Texas on a enemy video!

VW to cut jobs? https://finance.yahoo.com/news/volkswagen-slashes-9-300-workers-103526391.html

Michaell

I don't know about other parts of the country, but here in Colorado there is a very large field adjacent to Pikes Peak Int'l Raceway filled with TDI's that have been bought back by VW. Easily seen from I-25 between Colo Springs and Pueblo.

ruking1

So where are they hiding the other TDI cars? Unless that is the distribution area for the kit and caboodle? (@ whatever level-UNLIKELY)

485,000 cars requires YUGE circulation, parking/ storage sites!! There is a YUGE car distribution area close & used to service a Ford Mustang oem plant & it handles (only) 200,000 cars per year! It's serviced by a YUGE railhead.

kyfdx

Pontiac Silverdome parking lot

fintail

There's a holding lot out on the coast in WA that FCA was using to hold vehicles for export - I drove by it last month and it was full of VWs.