What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

fintail

I can't imagine something less connected to the "foundation of our economy" than a niche market car cheating on emissions. Ridiculous statement - but when you can get away with it, I guess that's how it goes.

gagrice

Just going through stuff to pack. Found this like new Chilton manual. Any interest out there?

fintail

That could be useful for someone, gas MBs of that era could be pretty finicky with the early emissions controls, I think 75-76 models are particularly bothersome. Those cars are modern compared to my old car, however, it wouldn't be put to use by me.

I like how the illustration captures the huge bumpers on that W116.

imidazol97

The report I heard on XM earlier today emphasized that the company had maintained a highly secret department to implement the cheating software.

ruking1

Too funny ! We should implement how they do it! It stayed "SECRET" longer than our most secret stuff!

gagrice

The manual will go to the Used bookstore in Pahrump. For every book you bring in they discount the books you buy with 50% off. I would imagine that manual will make someone happy.

ruking1

Only 1 diesel in preowned inventory @ the local MB dealer? However a good selection of MB Sprinters, new & used.

gagrice

The dealer in Pahrump NV, just sent me the paper work on exactly the GMC Canyon SLT diesel I am wanting. White exterior, Cocoa Dune leather interior. Headed over tomorrow and will see him Monday.

ruking1

12 GM diesel models! http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2017/08/25/2018-chevrolet-equinox-diesel-first-drive-ready-for-long-if-not-heavy-haul.html?ref=yfp

xwesx

Nice! Looking forward to seeing how they perform. And, of course, very interested in hearing more from Gary on this Canyon...!

xwesx

Ack. $40K!

Not thrilled with the packaging or color options. /sigh I'll have to watch the market on these as it develops.

Michaell

gagrice said:

The dealer in Pahrump NV, just sent me the paper work on exactly the GMC Canyon SLT diesel I am wanting. White exterior, Cocoa Dune leather interior. Headed over tomorrow and will see him Monday.

Good luck!

I may have mentioned, a friend test drove a very similar truck a month or two ago, and I joined him for the ride. He, too, currently drives a Touareg (gas powered, however). He thought the 4-cyl TDI was underpowered, and the lack of some of the features he was used to having (adaptive cruise, etc.), were hard to swallow at a $40K price point.

Would love to hear your thoughts on it, after your test drive.

ruking1

So is the TDI GMC Canyon underpowered in comparison to the "LIKE model" gas GMC Canyon?

To compare a gas VW Touareg to GMC Canyon TDI is strictly an apples to bananas comparison.

Michaell

ruking1 said:

So is the TDI GMC Canyon underpowered in comparison to the "LIKE model" gas GMC Canyon?

To compare a gas VW Touareg to GMC Canyon TDI is strictly an apples to bananas comparison.

In his opinion, yes, the Canyon TDI was less powerful than the V6, based on a seat of the pants feel.

My friend has also test driven an X5 diesel, a used Q5 TDI and an SQ5. It isn't solely about power / torque, either. He also wants certain options, as well.

ruking1

Of course not, priorities like color can be a deal breaker also.

369# ft (diesel 4 cylinder) ) vs 275 #ft (V6 new gasoline) is still 94 # ft of torque BETTER!! The TDI also beats the other 4 cylinder that comes standard.

While I think it's pretty obvious, it probably needs to be repeated; "LIKE torque"gasoline/TDI engines do operate/feel differently!!

It's too bad they did not offer a V6 3.0 L TDI posting 406# ft to 450 # ft! I'd have to seriously look at something like that!

gagrice

I will give my impressions of the Canyon diesel. I wonder if some people are more into jumping away from stop lights than passing from 50-80 MPH. I will likely be towing my trailer back and forth from Nevada with the new truck. I am almost certain the diesel will outperform the V6 gas model towing. Looking forward to a new PU. The Nissan is likely sold to family. Rather give it to family than to a dealer. Will be looking for the best cash price or zero financing deal they can offer. Tried to get TMV this morning and looks like they have some serious issues with Edmunds. It is just too much frustration finding TMV on Edmund's. They are not a great shopping site. give it a try.

https://www.edmunds.com/gmc/canyon/2017/options/?legacy=true&sub=crew-cab&color=

ruking1

This is NON diesel related, but saw (on SAT TV) a local GMC CUV advertisement for 20% off MSRP!! -$7,980?

I've also been seeing a lot of ZERO % monies for periods of up to 72 mos!!

It's pretty interesting (given the 2014 MB 350/250BT example 21 mpg $2.87/ 36 mpg $2.67, 15,000 miles per yr ) that a lot of folks do not run the math for app $940 per yr savings. Given that the average age of the passenger vehicle fleet is roughly 12 years, that is roughly $ 11,300 in savings.

On other NON diesel news, the local tire gurus, did a 5,000 miles (@ 50,000 miles on the 2014 MB 250BT ) tire rotation. The (slow-relatively) wear continues to be very even across all oem four tire treads. This is rather a head scratcher, as the oem Dunlops Grandtrek runflats are not well rated @ all. The alignment was done @ the factory in Bremen, Germany, aka, app 50,000 miles ago. We run 3 psi above placard.

ruking1

Prayers go out to those negatively affected by the Hurricane Harvey & the abnormally lingering rains.

Further, unfortunately this epic event will undoubtably roil the oil & gas markets!

It will probably also effect the vast new & used car markets, as many may go to salvage prematurely.

gagrice

gagrice said:

I will give my impressions of the Canyon diesel. I wonder if some people are more into jumping away from stop lights than passing from 50-80 MPH. I will likely be towing my trailer back and forth from Nevada with the new truck. I am almost certain the diesel will outperform the V6 gas model towing. Looking forward to a new PU. The Nissan is likely sold to family. Rather give it to family than to a dealer. Will be looking for the best cash price or zero financing deal they can offer. Tried to get TMV this morning and looks like they have some serious issues with Edmunds. It is just too much frustration finding TMV on Edmund's. They are not a great shopping site. give it a try.

https://www.edmunds.com/gmc/canyon/2017/options/?legacy=true&sub=crew-cab&color=

I am in Pahrump and tried it again and it worked perfect. TMV is about $2270 under MSRP. Just over invoice. The dealer told me they sell below invoice. So we shall see tomorrow.

fintail

Was out on the road for 100 or so miles today, but forgot to check my mileage. Sure is nice wafting along at something like 1700 rpm at 65, though.

ruking1

All the best! It seems like a deal can be struck @ or near dealer cost! Zero $/% would be very sweet!

ruking1

fintail said:

Was out on the road for 100 or so miles today, but forgot to check my mileage. Sure is nice wafting along at something like 1700 rpm at 65, though.

It would be interesting to see what mpg you would post on a full tank fill. (low fuel lamp lighting)

gagrice

ruking1 said:

All the best! It seems like a deal can be struck @ or near dealer cost! Zero $/% would be very sweet!

Well it is a done deal. Zero percent for 60 months. I did put $5k down. They approved without a Credit check. I did not want to mess up my home mortgage that closes on the 31st. I think they want to sell before then, so no SS number or credit check. They are detailing and filling it. Will deliver it this afternoon. Will get pictures when the afternoon wind dies down. It is the exact truck, color, interior I wanted. So I am happy.

gagrice

Now we have to decide which to drive home next week. Pretty sure it will be the PU Truck. Leave the Touareg in the garage at the new house. It better close on time. Guess what color I prefer my diesels to be? Love the remote start in this heat. AC puts out lots of cold air. I have to learn a lot. Like how to tie our smartphones to the Nav screen to use Google maps. Another big selling point. By the way anyone visiting Pahrump I highly recommend the WineRidge resort cabins.

xwesx

gagrice said:

Now we have to decide which to drive home next week. Pretty sure it will be the PU Truck. Leave the Touareg in the garage at the new house. It better close on time. Guess what color I prefer my diesels to be? Love the remote start in this heat. AC puts out lots of cold air. I have to learn a lot. Like how to tie our smartphones to the Nav screen to use Google maps. Another big selling point. By the way anyone visiting Pahrump I highly recommend the WineRidge resort cabins.

Niiiiice, Gary! Congrats!

fintail

Congrats. You're a real dieselhead now

ruking1

Congratulations! Driving back & forth in the new GMC Canyon TDI would be a great break-in route!

gagrice

I think I found a HUGE flaw in the GMC entertainment system. No FM HD. The Touareg picks up several HD stations here in Pahrump. Not so in the GMC. I got the top of the line 8 inch display with NAV and Bose speaker system. Has XM Sirius, Onstar and NO FM HD. I will pitch a Fit as I am tired of paying for XM on a few channels we like. Also no hard drive for music. You can stick a USB in to play. I expected a $44k PU truck to have more bells and whistles. It is only a GMC, kind of low down the line. Not a rocket like the VW Toureg TDI. But more than fast enough.

Michaell

gagrice said:

I think I found a HUGE flaw in the GMC entertainment system. No FM HD. The Touareg picks up several HD stations here in Pahrump. Not so in the GMC. I got the top of the line 8 inch display with NAV and Bose speaker system. Has XM Sirius, Onstar and NO FM HD. I will pitch a Fit as I am tired of paying for XM on a few channels we like. Also no hard drive for music. You can stick a USB in to play. I expected a $44k PU truck to have more bells and whistles. It is only a GMC, kind of low down the line. Not a rocket like the VW Toureg TDI. But more than fast enough.

Ugh, Gary, that's no good.

I seem to remember my friend asking about the HD FM availability on his Canyon test drive. He was surprised it wasn't available, either.

ruking1

Old information, but during the 2012 VW Touareg TDI buy, I got a 2 hr presentation, (way too TMI to me) hitting the highlights of systems/subsystems. I told the sales guy new car alignment either seemed not done or in the process of delivery got out of alignment. Long story short, since I was coming back for pick up, they checked it for me! On delivery he went through another 1.5 to two hour presentation. Now this guy talked machine gun fast, like a long time auctioneer! So even before the car was mine & off the lot, ppI had 4 hours of instruction & still knew they probably only scratched the surface. So this was from an extremely knowledgeable guy!

On your specific issue, so to be utterly honest with you, I didn't even know that the 2012 VW Touareg TDI sported HD FM. So in my case, wasnt a deal breaker, unless they would have told me I'd paid extra for it & didn't actually get it.

I've been tracking the MB E250 "d". On the normal E3320/350 there seems to be approximately 47% depreciation. (2017 MSRP to 2015 dealer sales prices)

gagrice

To be quite honest we had never tried the FM band until we got to Pahrump on Sunday. Looking for local news. That is when I realized they had several good stations with Classical Music on FM HD. Well that is the only reason we have kept XM is for the classical channels. So it is not a deal breaker. Just seems that the top of the line Bose system on a GMC should have HD.

ruking1

Indeed, FM reception is/remains rather sparse in the NV desert. Having subscriptions to what one wants & Bluetooth are the more modern ways to go!

It seems you are going from "total" over abundance to under abundance.

Before the buy back on the 2012 VW Touareg TDI, I was trying to populate the 40 station presets with 4 groups of 10 in 4 transition areas.(SF Bay Area, Sacramento, South/North Tahoe, Carson City/Reno, NV) For me, TMI while driving.

Shoot, I'm just glad I got to spend some major back seat time before the buy back!

This 2018 Audi SQ7 just caught my attention, 4.0L bi turbo 664. # ft of torque!
https://youtu.be/Nr7F0yjiX8w

ruking1

The Audi SQ7, T TDI @ (4.0L) 244 cu in, appears to be a V8. (900 nm). 664 # ft torque is probably up there with the latest Corvette Z06 ! It however takes a 391 cu in ( 6.4L) V8 for the Corvette Z06 to post close to those # ft of torque #'s. Simply amazing for the 244 cu in T TDI to post 664 # ft of torque would not do this justice!

This one is a popularity article

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/08/30/these-most-popular-cars-and-trucks-every-state/478537001/?ref=yfp

Gas price bears? https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gas-prices-surge-harvey-puts-142700496.html

Michaell

where have all the diesels gone?

gagrice

I should have filled the Touareg on Sunday when we got here. Diesel CC at Smith's was $2.41. Today it is $2.55. May not bother filling it before we leave. It will be parked in our new garage. Will have to fill the Canyon diesel for the trip home. Don't expect quite the range of the VW as it only has a 21 gallon tank. GMC claims 29 MPG hwy for the 4WD diesel. Will find out on the trip back to San Diego. Computer shows 24.5 MPG since we picked it up. So it may outperform the EPA claims. EPA rates the 4WD at 20 MPG city. Voice commands for calling and NAV work well. Smartphone displays on the console screen. So you can use Google maps. 6 Months free Onstar with 4G Wifi up to 7 devices.

fintail

Fixed link:

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/08/30/diesel-volkswagen-for-sale-colorado-springs/

The comments there destroy my faith in humanity.

Michaell said:

where have all the diesels gone?

ruking1

Evidently, they (affected diesel gate TDI's) are "hiding" in plain sight? Funny the author makes ZERO mention how the 10,500 fixed TDI's are selling on the US used car markets! This is a serious omission!

So for example, articles indicate once fixes have been accomplished, they can be sold anywhere in the world. "Slow" fixing rates would be almost nonsensical, if it will increase the salvage %.

If anything they could probably be sold in Texas areas (during rebuilding) damaged from Hurricane Harvey.

Michaell

fintail said:

Fixed link:

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/08/30/diesel-volkswagen-for-sale-colorado-springs/

The comments there destroy my faith in humanity.

Michaell said:

where have all the diesels gone?

Thanks for the fix - that's what I get for trying to get fancy with the links on my iPad.

I've learned not to read the comments on most articles that are posted on the web.

ruking1

Assuming VW can sell 500,000 used units in ONEl year, (which they can't/won't, in a used market of approximately 33 million used cars) that would only be 1.5% of the used market. (33m/.500) The reality would be far less and that number would be almost not measurable in percentage terms! (33 M/10,500=) .000318 % per article, ready for used car sales.

In keeping with the articles ebb & flow, VW will work very hard to prevent other fines from not meeting their buy back goals

So my guess; the VW NEW car sales are the top priority! They are probably targeting a growth in the US market from 2.5% upwards!? (17.5m/2.5% ) = 437,500 unitso.

So the environmentalist will have to say that they are trying to kill diesel. But that would be a stupid act, as diesel is still being produced in our local refineries and you got to have a outlet for the product!

ruking1

OMG! Here is latest up to 500,000 vehicles loss! You have your guess what that does to prices!? https://finance.yahoo.com/news/harvey-impact-car-sales-prices-100000615.html

gagrice

fintail said:

Fixed link:

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/08/30/diesel-volkswagen-for-sale-colorado-springs/

The comments there destroy my faith in humanity.

Michaell said:

where have all the diesels gone?

Something struck me about the article. How they are storing the VWs in the Silverdome that is crumbling into ruin. We have not advanced much in building over the last 1000 or more years. St Peter's Basilica was finished in 1626 and is still the largest cathedral in the World. Still a must see for those visiting Italy. We waste $billions on stadiums that are out dated before they are even finished. Why the Chargers left San Diego, we would not waste $2billion for a new stadium. Good Riddance.

ruking1

Im guess those places are ecstatic for the VW rents! There are MANY places in the USA that are in decay status! Detroit is a very notable visual example.

Applied to diesels, it's a reason why I'm more interested in the basics. The wife just got curious & brought in the 600 odd pages, books to figure out an icon. Turns out she now knows how to turn the fog lamps on & off. The 2014 car is 3 + years old & just pasted 50,000 miles. Maybe by 100,000 miles, on the way to 300,000 miles, we'll find out some other stuff about it. Well for sure I will probably need a set of new tires!

Michaell

gagrice said:

fintail said:

Fixed link:

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/08/30/diesel-volkswagen-for-sale-colorado-springs/

The comments there destroy my faith in humanity.

Michaell said:

where have all the diesels gone?

Something struck me about the article. How they are storing the VWs in the Silverdome that is crumbling into ruin. We have not advanced much in building over the last 1000 or more years. St Peter's Basilica was finished in 1626 and is still the largest cathedral in the World. Still a must see for those visiting Italy. We waste $billions on stadiums that are out dated before they are even finished. Why the Chargers left San Diego, we would not waste $2billion for a new stadium. Good Riddance.

Not in the superdome, but in the parking lot.

gagrice

Not likely to be seen in Murica.

With 320 kW (435 hp) and 900 Nm (663.8 lb ft) of torque, the new Audi SQ7 TDI is the most powerful diesel SUV on the market. It also leads the competition in numerous other technical fields. Its newly developed 4.0 TDI engine features a world first: An electric powered compressor gives the Audi SQ7 TDI outstanding off-the-line performance. Yet it consumes on average 7.4 liters of fuel per 100 kilometers (31.8 US mpg).

"Following the launch of the successful SQ5, we are now also applying the concept of a diesel-engined S model to the Q7 model line. So equipped, the SQ7 TDI with a V8 TDI engine achieves the consumption figures of a six-cylinder. The new technology solution of the electric powered compressor in the SQ7 TDI is a world first in the competitive environment, with which Audi once again underscores its claim Vorsprung durch Technik," said Dr. Stefan Knirsch, Member of the Board of Management of AUDI AG for Technical Development.

The 4.0 TDI has been newly developed from the ground up. It combines best-in-class performance with low consumption and guarantees maximum dynamics. The V8 engine has a displacement of 3,956 cc. The two exhaust-gas turbochargers are activated selectively according to the concept of sequential charging, since exhaust gas only flows through one turbocharger at low and intermediate load. The second turbine is only activated at higher loads. An electric powered compressor (EPC) augments the work of the two turbochargers, particularly in the lower engine speed range, providing for extremely dynamic off-the-line performance.

With 320 kW (435 hp) and 900 Nm (663.8 lb‑ft) of torque between 1,000 and 3,250 revolutions per minute, the SUV sets new benchmarks in the segment. It accelerates from 0 to 100 km/h (62.1 mph) in 4.8 seconds; top speed is 250 km/h (155.3 mph) (governed).

Michaell

gagrice said:

Not likely to be seen in Murica.

With 320 kW (435 hp) and 900 Nm (663.8 lb ft) of torque, the new Audi SQ7 TDI is the most powerful diesel SUV on the market. It also leads the competition in numerous other technical fields. Its newly developed 4.0 TDI engine features a world first: An electric powered compressor gives the Audi SQ7 TDI outstanding off-the-line performance. Yet it consumes on average 7.4 liters of fuel per 100 kilometers (31.8 US mpg).

"Following the launch of the successful SQ5, we are now also applying the concept of a diesel-engined S model to the Q7 model line. So equipped, the SQ7 TDI with a V8 TDI engine achieves the consumption figures of a six-cylinder. The new technology solution of the electric powered compressor in the SQ7 TDI is a world first in the competitive environment, with which Audi once again underscores its claim Vorsprung durch Technik," said Dr. Stefan Knirsch, Member of the Board of Management of AUDI AG for Technical Development.

The 4.0 TDI has been newly developed from the ground up. It combines best-in-class performance with low consumption and guarantees maximum dynamics. The V8 engine has a displacement of 3,956 cc. The two exhaust-gas turbochargers are activated selectively according to the concept of sequential charging, since exhaust gas only flows through one turbocharger at low and intermediate load. The second turbine is only activated at higher loads. An electric powered compressor (EPC) augments the work of the two turbochargers, particularly in the lower engine speed range, providing for extremely dynamic off-the-line performance.

With 320 kW (435 hp) and 900 Nm (663.8 lb‑ft) of torque between 1,000 and 3,250 revolutions per minute, the SUV sets new benchmarks in the segment. It accelerates from 0 to 100 km/h (62.1 mph) in 4.8 seconds; top speed is 250 km/h (155.3 mph) (governed).

If it were to be offered here, likely to cost 6 figures or more. The SQ5 can be optioned up to almost $70k

ruking1

32 mpg? On how & where I would drive it, it will probably be easy to exceed! I'm guessing 36 mpg!

xwesx

I want one.

ruking1

Yes, it definitely rates a : more power AW AW AW!

ruking1

On review, it seems I overstated the purchase price by $1,700 on the 2009 Jetta TDI. So that drops cpmd: depreciation to $.009655 (almost 1 cent)

ruking1

I've not gone USA cross country in a EV. However, one can Google YouTube . 2 guys have gone country cross country in an EV; a Tesla. A snapshot in 471 miles posted 4 charging stops: 118 miles per stop, 40 min per charge.
https://youtu.be/wWqdyFos-30

If I had done the USA XC in the "thirsty" 12 VW Touareg TDI, (32/33 mpg@26.4 gal) app 870 miles would have posted per fueling, 10 min maximum per fueling.