What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

stever

They just don't understand that you can save a whole bunch more gas just by parking yourself in front of the Travel Channel.

ruking1

@stever said:
They just don't understand that you can save a whole bunch more gas just by parking yourself in front of the Travel Channel.

YUP ! And just given em 3 D glasses, so they can do 2,500 miles across country in high def. cable tv !!! Don't forget the stop in Colorado for the newly legal mind altering TCH or was that THC?.

Let's see @ 18 mph that should take 139 hours? or 5.79 days non stop? The WOW man PEACE stop in CO will take goodness knows how long? We can pause and watch grey scale takes.

But then, SO SAD, on grid electrical consumption remains 40% COAL fired. Got to love those coal fired TV's and I products. With those same folks not granting natural gas fired plants, nor heaven help us NUCK CLEAR plants, looks like COAL will be around easily for @ least another generation, aka biblical.

fintail

Speaking of coal, yesterday I saw a Fedex tractor trailer (contractor I bet) that was putting out so much smoke, one could think it used coal for fuel. Not even a peep of enforcing anything against that ideal. No doubt the kind of things that intelligent and legitimate authorities will use as an example when teaming up with sensitive greybeard types to draft future legislation for diesel cars

gagrice

@stever said:
Posters on Gerdes' site are getting almost 200% of EPA numbers with their hybrids and gassers too.

The 194% vehicle is a Honda Accord DIESEL. Not sure how you could possibly do a comparo with a plugin like the Volt. Would be interesting to see how the Volt or plugin Prius would fare in an around the USA test like the ones holding the records with diesel.

PS

Or better yet from the tip of SO America to the Arctic Ocean. See what the Volt or Prius can do real world.

ruking1

Even Toyota is phasing out of (hybrid) Prius, and EV plug in. Lots of articles about Toyota shifting into hydrogen fuel cells !!

Diesel will continue to make in roads easily for another biblical generation for a host of reasons. The infrastructure investments are just WAY too massive. IF anything, it also serves to keep a lid on the middle east. Anything past that and things remain foggy.

Any more, 5 year cycles are LONG in the tooth. The real issues are most capital intensive projects require LONGER cycles.

gagrice

I think the Germans have hit the market with diesel SUVs at just the right time to cash in on the retiring Baby boomers wanting a comfortable vehicle. Easy to get in and out of and gets good mileage. Most will opt for the RAV4, Escape and CRV. The discriminating drivers will go with the German luxury and a good percentage diesel. Mercedes is not saying much about the individual diesel models. The GLK was up 39%. I wonder just how many MB is bringing in to the dealers.

Sales of the company's BlueTEC diesel models totaled 1,118 for the month, up 27.2%, with year-to-date volumes reaching 9,284.

ruking1

@gagrice said:
I think the Germans have hit the market with diesel SUVs at just the right time to cash in on the retiring Baby boomers wanting a comfortable vehicle. Easy to get in and out of and gets good mileage. Most will opt for the RAV4, Escape and CRV. The discriminating drivers will go with the German luxury and a good percentage diesel. Mercedes is not saying much about the individual diesel models. The GLK was up 39%. I wonder just how many MB is bringing in to the dealers.

Sales of the company's BlueTEC diesel models totaled 1,118 for the month, up 27.2%, with year-to-date volumes reaching 9,284.

I think that VW's shift to 5 year model change (from 7 year cycles) was way under the radar to most consumers, let alone VW consumers. The good/bad news are newer and fresher models go to market faster. " Constant improvement/s" during that cycle gets a 2 year hair cut (minus-29%).

The "platform " structure concept lessens that and other risk/s and hopefully adds to increased reliability and durability rates; above and behind what they are doing to better the rates: where multiple models share both platform/s and parts bin/s. My take is the new 5 year cycle will debut with the 2015 MY.

Mercedes Benz has been on a tear bring new products to market and to a lesser extent diesels. They haven't outlined what protocol they are following in doing either to both.

Slow diesel news day

$4.01 ULSD

$3.89 RUG

$3.99 MGUG

$4.09 PUG

dudleyr

For those who want a picture of national average prices (vs anecdotal).

My anecdotal prices are 3.06.9 for RUG

ruking1

@dudleyr said:

For those who want a picture of national average prices (vs anecdotal).

My anecdotal prices are 3.06.9 for RUG

For what my anecdotal prices are, I want to pay national prices and/or LESS. It would seem your anecdotal ULSD prices would be less also, which is probably way better.

xwesx

I'll second that vote, ruking! I suppose it could be worse; we're "only" paying 60 cents over the current NA for gasoline, and maybe 30 for diesel. Somebody up here must be slacking.

ruking1

@ruking1 said:

>

But even at anecdotal prices of 4.09 PUG and 4.01 ULSD, the GLK's @ 20 mpg/35 mpg, with 15,000 yearly miles US drivers average will use 750 gals vs 429 gals ($3,068- $1,720=) So I would pay $1,348 more per year for PUG.

dudleyr

Interesting choice to use a number for the gas GLK at 5 mpg under EPA highway, and a number 2 mpg over EPA highway for the diesel.

Mr_Shiftright

Average miles @ 15,000 is only for the 35 to 54 age demographic. It falls off sharply on either end of that. Total miles driven by the US population as a whole has been falling pretty steadily since 2005, and adjusted for population growth, it's even steeper.

gagrice

@Mr_Shiftright said:
Average miles @ 15,000 is only for the 35 to 54 age demographic. It falls off sharply on either end of that. Total miles driven by the US population as a whole has been falling pretty steadily since 2005, and adjusted for population growth, it's even steeper.

I must be a late driving bloomer. I am 71 and put more miles on the last 12 months than any I can remember. I am at 19k on the T-reg and Nissan Frontier. 16k on the VW TDI. Never enjoyed driving so much as in this vehicle. 600+ mile days are a pleasure. Planning our Oregon trip this October via Yellowstone and Boise.

Mr_Shiftright

hey, act your age!

xwesx

@gagrice said:
Planning our Oregon trip this October via Yellowstone and Boise.

LOL That's a whole additional trip! There's no "via" when that is farther away than your destination. While you're at it, I think you should hit Prudoe just to keep in touch with what's happening up on the Slope; it's not that far out of the way.

I'm impressed with how much you like this vehicle, though. It is fun to read you and ruking's musings about your TDIs.

henryn

@Mr_Shiftright
Average miles @ 15,000 is only for the 35 to 54 age demographic. It falls off sharply on either end of that. Total miles driven by the US population as a whole has been falling pretty steadily since 2005, and adjusted for population growth, it's even steeper.

There's something funny about that. Not ha-ha funny, strange funny. Whenever I'm shopping for a used car, I seem to see mostly cars that have been driven 20k or even 30k miles per year. No, not all, but it seems like the vast majority.

@gagrice
I must be a late driving bloomer. I am 71 and put more miles on the last 12 months than any I can remember.

I'm the opposite. I'm 63, and I drive a lot fewer miles now than when I was younger.

ruking1

@Mr_Shiftright said:
Average miles @ 15,000 is only for the 35 to 54 age demographic. It falls off sharply on either end of that. Total miles driven by the US population as a whole has been falling pretty steadily since 2005, and adjusted for population growth, it's even steeper.

I ran the numbers off the 2012 NHTSA statistics miles traveled by PVF # of cars and by licensed drivers ( I also posted the link). They did not break down age demographics, for either and/or both. I also doubt that that demographic owns ALL those cars. You might want to run your own numbers, from whatever or where ever you are getting your statistics.

stever

I gotta start acting my age - we did 600 miles today and it's more fun taking a day and a half for those kinds of miles. Kind of a boring drive just bombing up I-75 for hours on end.

I saw two stinkpots spewing on the roads the last couple of days.. Both gassers - yesterday it was a Honda S2000 spewing from both tailpipes and the driver had the top down (and everyone was going about 10 mph in the Smokies). Today's winner was an older Saturn.

In the minus column, gas is "cheap" right now making the typical regular/diesel price differential fifty to eighty cents a gallon. I rarely think to look, but I'm guessing that premium is running thirty cents more than regular.

(@gagrice, thinking of a Boise move? Check out Eagle and put Mai Thai on your list - voted the Best of Boise 9 years in a row).

Mr_Shiftright

DOT statistics---pretty solid looks like. I think the point is that in general, American are driving fewer miles and this downward trend continues:

Americans drove 30 billion fewer vehicle miles in 2008-2009 than in the 2001-2002 NHTS survey period

You have to keep in mind that this is a large cumulative number. Our individual decrease in driving might not seem very significant to us, but you multiply that by X million drivers, and it adds up.

I mean, someone doesn't just apply the brakes on his 55th birthday!

But the statistic makes sense if you think about it. The older the driver, the less likely to be taking long road trips, or driving at night; and as for the young 'uns, many have migrated to big cities and use public transport way more than kids 20 years ago.

@ruking1 said:
I ran the numbers off the 2012 NHTSA statistics miles traveled by PVF # of cars and by licensed drivers ( I also posted the link). They did not break down age demographics, for either and/or both. I also doubt that that demographic owns ALL those cars. You might want to run your own numbers, from whatever or where ever you are getting your statistics.

"

ruking1

@dudleyr said:
Interesting choice to use a number for the gas GLK at 5 mpg under EPA highway, and a number 2 mpg over EPA highway for the diesel.

Pretty simple and boring really. I do not have any tankfuls with the GLK 350. So the figures were taken from fuelly.com (which I posted). I could have surmise what I would have posted. Would you have found that of more interest? The GLK 250 figure was close to my latest tankful. It also is (close to) the average for app 8,200 miles.

Another snapshot, 09 VW Jetta TDI post HPFP et al repairs posted 41 mpg commute. (503/12.2 gal) So no perceptible change due to these repairs or 3 normal drivers, me being the ABBY normal driver.

gagrice

@xwesx said:

The truth is I have never been to Yellowstone. I would like to see it before the whole area blows up. From there to Boise is an easy day to visit friends. Then on over to Oregon. Only adds about 1200 pleasant miles driving the best vehicle I have ever owned.

gagrice

@stever said:

(@gagrice, thinking of a Boise move? Check out Eagle and put Mai Thai on your list - voted the Best of Boise 9 years in a row).

I will keep that in mind. Probably go where our friends want to take us. Last time I was in Boise was 1998. Not sure what route to take to Cottage Grove Oregon from there.

cdnpinhead

@gagrice said:
The truth is I have never been to Yellowstone.

I don't think you said when you plan to go, but make it after Labor Day if possible. It's a beautiful place, but the last couple of times I was there it was one giant traffic jam interrupted by full parking lots. Not nearly so nice as it was in '69 when I first saw it, but then again, neither am I.

ruking1

This has nothing to do with diesel, BUT the National Parks (Fed, DOI) offer the LIFETIME national park pass to those 62 and over for $10. It gives the whole car passage for most places.

http://www.doi.gov/tourists/get-a-pass.cfm

..."U.S. citizens 62 or older can purchase a $10 lifetime Senior Pass"...

I got mine at a nearby park (FED) . Google is your huckleberry for anyone's closest outlet.

They take personal checks. Ah, don't let em bounce or you may get a Lois Learner minion (sentenced to podunk) knocking on your door. Do you think she will now have traction like: Hello I am Mike Wallace from 60 minutes, CBS and I am here to ask you a few questions.

stever

Quit promoting that @ruking1 - I'm still a few months away from qualifying and with my luck, Congress will come back after recess and actually do something, like get rid of the program.

"Driven by government-mandated fuel standards and new technologies, officials expect an influx of diesel vehicles entering the U.S. market place in the coming years. Diesels currently represent roughly 3 percent of all U.S. sales. However, some companies expect that percentage to grow to 10 percent by 2020"

GM reconfirms plans to expand diesel offerings (mlive.com)

And over the Pond, "The recent and sudden demonisation of diesel took another, stranger turn today when The Sun newspaper branded successive goverments "diesel weasels" on its front page for “seducing” motorists into buying diesel cars with CO2-friendly taxation. It then called for a scrappage scheme to help owners of older diesels to upgrade so they “will not face fines in the future”.

This diesel backlash is completely overblown (telegraph.co.uk)

There's nothing like having a "two newspaper town" (remember competition?) to dig into stories and sell papers.

ruking1

Seems this "diesel thang" is starting to come to the fore. This web site thread and to another extent early adopters are in the vanguard.

Too funny "across the pond, " @ 8 to 10 per gal US, why would their politicians want people to use LESS fuel !!!

Shiftright hit upon the conundrum, they want to blather on about telling people to use less, when they THEN do it, then the cumulative actions borders on catastrophe !!!!!!

Doesn't it make you wonder what US politicians will do when fuel here is more like $6 per gal? Remember it is at app $4.

I will be pining for the "good ole days" when diesel fuel (LSD then) was $1.85. aka ,037 cents per mile DRIVEN. (10.5% per year increase)

stever

Cheaper fuel would mean less revenue to fix the roads. It was hard to drive more than 40 miles at a stretch yesterday without hitting road construction, so that could be an especially good thing.

ruking1

@stever said:
Cheaper fuel would mean less revenue to fix the roads. It was hard to drive more than 40 miles at a stretch yesterday without hitting road construction, so that could be an especially good thing.

Well, another myth BUSTED !! Plenty to the majority of these environ cons made the claims that less use means WAY less wear !! aka lasting FAR longer. Those same folks then made it lawful to use highway construction money's for almost anything else BUT mandated highway construction. Then of course, they use the CRAPPIEST materials that are known to wear QUICKLY !!! Now, how faster deteriorating cycle repairs of 3 to 5 years is better for the environment than say 10/15/20 years with quality materials have yet to be explained.

Mr_Shiftright

It's really heavy trucks that beat up the highways I think.

Hey, just got my "lifetime pass" to the National Parks as well--$10 bucks and it's a rather attractive piece of plastic as well