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Comments
A typical tech today probably has 50,000 worth of tools in his toolbox. He pays for these himself.
Still, a good tech can make a decent wage but it is tough physical work. Walk into any dealership or indy shop and see how many over 40 techs you see.
BTW...if you average 27mpg in the Camry & 50mpg in the Prius you'll save about $1000/year in the Prius, so yes it would take a few years to pay off the difference, unless you drove > 15,000 miles/year or gas goes up even more. And I like the versatility of the hatchback design of the Prius over the Camry, since it can hold more cargo.
As far as a Jetta TDI Sportswagon, it starts at $25K, so there's another couple of thousand on top of the Prius, just to get the same mpg as a Prius (yes, I know that if you drive 100% of the time on the highway the TDI will get you better MPG :P ). But as I've posted before, gas is only one cost in a car, and the potential repair bills of a VW would steer me well clear of the TDI.
But if you currently have an '04 Civic that runs good, I'd say that's the best car for your commutes and not to change it. These types of comparisons only make sense if you NEED to buy a car because the one you have is falling apart or doesn't meet your needs anymore.
He employs a few techs, a couple are older guys as there is demand for repair work on old cars. They don't flinch at fixing the fintail, so I'm happy - the dealer would hose me on anything more than an oil change on that thing.
If you go to a Lexus dealer with an older model they will hose you on EVERYTHING including an oil change. The local Lexus dealer is why I would not consider another Lexus. That and my wife hates the looks of all the newer models.
That and unlike the competition, Lexus does not offer any diesel models. No wonder they are relegated to 3rd or 4th place now in sales. Audi, BMW and MB all have cars and SUVs with diesel option. So you can have your luxury and economy both.
In Europe, Lexus has a diesel IS, but nothing else diesel.
Dealerships used to despise doing warrenty work so I'm kind suprised they don't welcome customer pay jobs?
Sounds like you found a great shop. Email me and let me know who it is.
http://www.tlc-auto.com/
I think with MB trying to improve image to new car buyers, they are probably told to coddle a certain set. The labor rates are just insane for customer pay work.
I'll email...you can search for the shop too, it is near Park Place and the Acura/BMW dealers. People rave about it on yelp etc.
Heck, once when my car was running late, he even had his fiance come and pick me up to collect it after hours. Not bad.
I think with older LS, many who drive them can't afford it, but like with old MB, they can take a lot of abuse before they finally die.
I wonder if there will ever be a diesel LS.
That would have been a much wiser move than that silly LS hybrid that gets worse mileage on the highway than the conventional LS460 L. How smart was that?
Except that the equivalent to the Prius is actually a Corolla (they make a Corolla hatchback in Japan witch looks not too unsurprisingly like.. a Prius). Comparing a Prius to a typical compact car gives you a $300-$500 per year savings at best, and with a $5K or more price difference, it's likely as long as you'll own the car to break even.
So price has a lot to do with it. What we are missing are the 14-15K range diesels like they get in Europe. If you have to pay $25K for a diesel or hybrid, it obliterates any cost savings over just getting the Civic.
Note - an exception to all of this idiocy is the CNG Civic, which averages almost 75-80mpg equivalent with today's gas prices.
Azusa, CA - CNG price : $2.12
Azusa, CA Gas price: $4.05 (gasbuddy.com) (avg in L.A. is $4.13 - this is low and gas prices are rising to an expected $4.30 - $4.50 by summer!)
Civic CNG - 24/36MPG(28 avg) X 1.91 = 45.8/68.8 (53.5 avg)
Gas and diesel prices are not regulated and are subject to speculation and market forces. CNG is heavily regulated and prices are closely matched to inflation and actual costs. With Gas (and diesel) prices expected to hit $5 a gallon in 2-3 years, it's a no-brainer to get one of these if you live in an urban area.
EDIT - yes, the CNG Civic costs the same $5-6K more as the Hybrids and diesels, but with fuel prices at nearly half gasoline or diesel, you're looking at paying off that difference in 4-5 years in most scenarios.
You almost have to be a dedicated enthusiast to own a diesel in this country. Whole diff. attitude in Europe & the UK......
IIRC local MB labor rates are 130 or more. I know there's a lot of overhead and expenses, but come on.
The various contenders for my money included Prius, Corolla, Mazda3, Civic, and Jetta/Rabbit. In the end it was a toss-up between the Rabbit and the Mazda3 (Jetta TDIs were in extremely short supply back then as well; short as in virtually unobtainable), and given that VW was in the midst of its model change-over (Mark V to Mark VI if I recall correctly), supplies of Rabbits were extremely limited; the Mazda3 won. Honorable mention went to the Civic (even with its bizarre instrument cluster), the Corolla had no soul and was easily dismissed. "The Prius?" one might ask, yeesh, if the Corolla had no soul, the Prius was still-born; I truly believe that there will never be a single person that enjoys driving that would ever be happy in such a vehicle.
"How about the extra room in the Prius?" a second person asked. Ummm yeah, about that. The only measurement the Prius had over the Mazda3 was an extra 2.3 inches of leg room in the rear (it didn't seem like that much when I got in the back); the Mazda on the other hand had significantly more hip room front and rear and more shoulder and head room in the rear as well. Size wise the Mazda3 felt a bit roomier inside, but on paper the two cars are pretty much a wash.
"But what about the fuel savings?" someone else asked. Hmmm, let's see; given that my commute was about 95% steady state Interstate 75 mph cruising, the Mazda3 was averaging about 33 mpg, from co-workers I learned that one might expect about 40 mpg at those same speeds. My first year with the Mazda3 saw just over 45,000 miles roll by at an average of 32.5 mpg; the fuel costs for that year at an average of $2.00 per gallon worked out to about $2,800. Fuel costs for a Prius running at 40 mpg would have been $2,250; a savings of a whopping $550 per year. At that rate it would have taken me nearly sixteen years and 720,000 miles to break even on the cost difference between the Mazda3 (just under $16,000) and a Prius (the deal I was offered was $24,000).
Fast forward to the age of the four dollar gallon of gasoline and we're still talking a break even point of over 8 years and 360,000 miles. Geez am I glad I bought the Mazda; what a fun little car to drive.
As far as the Mazda is concerned; I don't see any reason to change anytime soon; that said, I recently found a 2002 540i 6-Speed with only 40,000 miles, and geez was I sorely tempted. I sure am glad that car is no longer on the market.
I guess if you're just looking for a strictly highway commuter, then a compact or diesel would be the way to go, but if you're looking for a car to haul around the family, then I've found the Prius to be a better fit.
If I had 100,000 miles of highway to drive every year, then I'd get a TDI too. At 50mpg & $4 gas, that's $8,000 in cost, as compared to $11,428 at 35mpg or $3428 savings each year. Plus at that type of driving is very easy on a car.
If I had 100,000 miles of driving a year, I would slit my wrists. If I even had 20,000 miles a year I would want all the comfort I could afford. That is a lot of road time. That would be 2 hours or more a day, 5 days a week. Beating yourself to death in a car with marginal suspension is not a pleasant thought. Even if you can fit 4 with all their stuff. Much of my youth was spent bouncing around in the back of a PU truck. Very similar to the rides I have had in my buddies Prius. I don't care if gas & diesel goes to $10 per gallon. I may drive less miles and make less frivolous trips to the store. IF someone were to die and leave me a Prius. I would probably use it for my local driving which is about 6 miles total loop from home to bank, to store, to library, to post office, to church and back home. About all I can think it would be good for. Except we do have more than our share of potholes I would have to slalom around to avoid kidney damage.
As for me, if one has that much stuff to haul around and/or do a higher percentage of "family " driving, not a lot beats a diesel version. The diesel version (of like models) starts to make sense beginning around 20,000 miles per year. If one is comparing competitors, like the Toyota Camry Hybrid vs a VW Jetta TDI sedan or JSW, it makes sense from the get go, as the Toyota Camry Hybrid is thousands more. The EPA and www.fueleconomy.gov figures show the Jetta/JSW TDI getting over all BETTER fuel mileage than the (TCH) Hybrid.
Again I have never gotten a STRAIGHT answer from a Prius owner about the mpg at speed limits of 80-85 mph.
I got 48 MPG at 77 MPH in my TCH. For brief spurts.
And my many (twice a year) trips to Texas, involving speed limits from 75-80, give me tanks of 33-37 MPG consistently in a TCH.
When I used to do that same trip in a 2004 HCH, I had tanks of 44-56 MPG.
A Prius can do a 50+ tank at 75-80 MPH, GUARANTEED.
That's not to say it's any better at high speeds than a TDI - it's probably NOT.
But it doesn't become a mileage DOG, either.
Far above? Hmmm, Michigan has their speed limit at 75, here in New Hampshire it is 65 but the average flow of traffic is more like 75.
I got 48 MPG at 77 MPH in my TCH. For brief spurts.
Forty-eight? Down-hill with the wind to your tail? Short of some much more significant evidence I cannot believe a Prius is even remotely capable of sustaining that kind of fuel consumption at that speed.
And my many (twice a year) trips to Texas, involving speed limits from 75-80, give me tanks of 33-37 MPG consistently in a TCH.
Is that impressive?
When I used to do that same trip in a 2004 HCH, I had tanks of 44-56 MPG.
Forty-four in that car I might believe, fifty-six? Not happening.
A Prius can do a 50+ tank at 75-80 MPH, GUARANTEED.
No chance unless it's descending the Continental Divide with a mid-latitude cyclone on your tail.
That's not to say it's any better at high speeds than a TDI - it's probably NOT.
No argument there.
But it doesn't become a mileage DOG, either.
Not according to the folks I know that have them.
I you don't believe my post about the 48 MPG at 77 MPH, go search it on YouTube. I posted a video. It has 10,000+ views.
The TCH 33-37 MPG figure was to point out that if a TCH, rated about 15 MPG less than a Prius, can get 33-37 at those speeds, then it's reasonable to think that a Prius can get 48-52 MPG at those speeds.
Here are my Top Five tanks in my 2004 HCH, all of which I kept in a spreadsheet which I still keep and refer to often:
56.0 City tank
55.3 City tank
54.6 Highway tank
53.9 City tank
53.8 City tank
So I got ALMOST 55 MPG on a highway tank - not 56 as I previously mentioned. Pretty close though. :shades:
I know lots of folks that have them too. Out here in the Southwest, we have long stretches of undisturbed interstates. You can do a little Googling and find lots of people reporting over 50 MPH for highway tanks in Priuses.
Gas mileage heroics in a Prius typically require unsafe driving; no thanks. I mean geez, our old beater two-ton 3.8 liter Dodge Grand Caravan could turn in well over 30 mpg if I was to have driven it at 50 mph on the Interstate; not at all impressive (or safe for that matter).
I can't recall, however, seeing or reading about a story where a Prius was in a high-speed crash due to faulty design of the vehicle.
I was focusing on the MPG claims that Priuses were/are dogs at highway speeds. They aren't.
An engine in a hybrid that is not sized or designed to do all the work for a relatively constant highway blast/commute, is simply not an efficient design for those times, so you can be reasonably assured that inefficient results will prevail.
Sam
http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/polo/2012/#fullreview
This is a hint that it may not be optimized to be much of a *CAR*.
This is one of the funniest things I have read here on Edmunds! LOL
I know that you were speaking factually also though, but it really struck a funny bone in me.
The rest of your post was spot-on too.
Sam
Just because it had a reputation of being an "elitist" car when it first got popular is no reason to dislike it now.
It's the best high-mileage car in America, with the sales numbers to prove it.
So the sales stats have been clouded by other factors, some of which have been politicking. Not a clear indicator by any real world means, IMO.
Sam
My response to that is "who cares?"
People have many different reasons for doing lots of different things.
Regardless of the reason, it's a clean-emission, high-mileage 5-passenger mid-size car, and there are not a lot of them available to USA drivers.