There are a few good indy MB shops in my area. The one I patronize always does a huge volume, as he charges significantly lower labor rates. A good dealer mechanic can make a decent wage, but running an honest competent indy shop can be a windfall too.
It's sort of funny that people use resources like fueleconomy.gov for cars they don't like and use "personal experience" for cars they do like. happy driving
BTW...if you average 27mpg in the Camry & 50mpg in the Prius you'll save about $1000/year in the Prius, so yes it would take a few years to pay off the difference, unless you drove > 15,000 miles/year or gas goes up even more. And I like the versatility of the hatchback design of the Prius over the Camry, since it can hold more cargo.
As far as a Jetta TDI Sportswagon, it starts at $25K, so there's another couple of thousand on top of the Prius, just to get the same mpg as a Prius (yes, I know that if you drive 100% of the time on the highway the TDI will get you better MPG :P ). But as I've posted before, gas is only one cost in a car, and the potential repair bills of a VW would steer me well clear of the TDI.
But if you currently have an '04 Civic that runs good, I'd say that's the best car for your commutes and not to change it. These types of comparisons only make sense if you NEED to buy a car because the one you have is falling apart or doesn't meet your needs anymore.
The indy I go to once worked for MB, has all of the certification, but didn't like the dealership experience. Around here, if you don't pull up in an under warranty S-class, you aren't really catered to as well. The indy treats everyone the same, he recognizes that you are spending your money. I think many dealers don't act that way.
He employs a few techs, a couple are older guys as there is demand for repair work on old cars. They don't flinch at fixing the fintail, so I'm happy - the dealer would hose me on anything more than an oil change on that thing.
the dealer would hose me on anything more than an oil change on that thing.
If you go to a Lexus dealer with an older model they will hose you on EVERYTHING including an oil change. The local Lexus dealer is why I would not consider another Lexus. That and my wife hates the looks of all the newer models.
That and unlike the competition, Lexus does not offer any diesel models. No wonder they are relegated to 3rd or 4th place now in sales. Audi, BMW and MB all have cars and SUVs with diesel option. So you can have your luxury and economy both.
The indy oil changes are only a few dollars less than the dealer - but major work comes at a major savings. Probably the only drawback is that he doesn't offer a shuttle and of course there are no loaner cars. But you save enough to take care of that yourself, and then some.
In Europe, Lexus has a diesel IS, but nothing else diesel.
My Independent Lexus repair shop is very reasonable. Especially on OEM parts. About half what the dealer wanted to charge me. Gas gauge sensor from Lexus El Cajon was $512 for the parts and $1200 total installed. From my Indy shop it was $540 installed same exact part. I consider that a rip-off and reason enough to shun Lexus. The service manager's comment was something like if you cannot afford to maintain a Lexus you should trade it in on a non luxury car. :P to him
I think he's kept up with it, but I don't think late model under warranty cars come there anyway. I am sure the place is minting money, so to keep up would just be a time issue.
I think with MB trying to improve image to new car buyers, they are probably told to coddle a certain set. The labor rates are just insane for customer pay work.
I'll email...you can search for the shop too, it is near Park Place and the Acura/BMW dealers. People rave about it on yelp etc.
That would have been a much wiser move than that silly LS hybrid that gets worse mileage on the highway than the conventional LS460 L. How smart was that?
The LS hybrid is really no better than the Escalade hybrid to me. Highest model, but even less gain in the Lexus. All about showing off how much you spent.
BTW...if you average 27mpg in the Camry & 50mpg in the Prius you'll save about $1000/year in the Prius,
Except that the equivalent to the Prius is actually a Corolla (they make a Corolla hatchback in Japan witch looks not too unsurprisingly like.. a Prius). Comparing a Prius to a typical compact car gives you a $300-$500 per year savings at best, and with a $5K or more price difference, it's likely as long as you'll own the car to break even.
So price has a lot to do with it. What we are missing are the 14-15K range diesels like they get in Europe. If you have to pay $25K for a diesel or hybrid, it obliterates any cost savings over just getting the Civic.
Note - an exception to all of this idiocy is the CNG Civic, which averages almost 75-80mpg equivalent with today's gas prices. Azusa, CA - CNG price : $2.12 Azusa, CA Gas price: $4.05 (gasbuddy.com) (avg in L.A. is $4.13 - this is low and gas prices are rising to an expected $4.30 - $4.50 by summer!) Civic CNG - 24/36MPG(28 avg) X 1.91 = 45.8/68.8 (53.5 avg)
Gas and diesel prices are not regulated and are subject to speculation and market forces. CNG is heavily regulated and prices are closely matched to inflation and actual costs. With Gas (and diesel) prices expected to hit $5 a gallon in 2-3 years, it's a no-brainer to get one of these if you live in an urban area.
EDIT - yes, the CNG Civic costs the same $5-6K more as the Hybrids and diesels, but with fuel prices at nearly half gasoline or diesel, you're looking at paying off that difference in 4-5 years in most scenarios.
In a way I can't wait for our nation's economy to implode. In hard economic times, they should be dropping their rates instead of raising them. I see this with rents on businesses as well. Strip malls have tons of vacancies now - more than anytime since the 70s. And yet they keep on raising the prices so that they've never been higher.
I am not sure what you think is funny about it. Did you expect EVERYONE to get EXACTLY the same? I think if that is your expectation, THAT is funny !! So I report what I really get and you think something queer about that? I can hardly report real world figures on models that I have no real world experience with? Or are we missing each others meanings? You of course can look up the EPA ratings and whether or not the variance of folks are in the ballpark. As you probably notice my ranges are a tad higher than the EPA's.
Americans will never embrace diesels in large numbers. We're too spoiled, & God forbid the yuppie/surbanite gets a little diesel fuel on their hands when filling up, or has to drive a bit longer to find fuel.
You almost have to be a dedicated enthusiast to own a diesel in this country. Whole diff. attitude in Europe & the UK......
Back in late 2008 I took a new position that had me driving roughly 100 miles per day while my (then) current mount was nearing the 200,000 mile threshold. Given that it was still pretty much all original (you know, stuff like the HVAC system, radiator, alternator, various pumps and such, suspension, exhaust...) I figured that it was either due to start nickle and dime(ing) me to death (probably likely), or the have a catastrophic melt down (unlikely), and as such, my search for a new ride started.
The various contenders for my money included Prius, Corolla, Mazda3, Civic, and Jetta/Rabbit. In the end it was a toss-up between the Rabbit and the Mazda3 (Jetta TDIs were in extremely short supply back then as well; short as in virtually unobtainable), and given that VW was in the midst of its model change-over (Mark V to Mark VI if I recall correctly), supplies of Rabbits were extremely limited; the Mazda3 won. Honorable mention went to the Civic (even with its bizarre instrument cluster), the Corolla had no soul and was easily dismissed. "The Prius?" one might ask, yeesh, if the Corolla had no soul, the Prius was still-born; I truly believe that there will never be a single person that enjoys driving that would ever be happy in such a vehicle.
"How about the extra room in the Prius?" a second person asked. Ummm yeah, about that. The only measurement the Prius had over the Mazda3 was an extra 2.3 inches of leg room in the rear (it didn't seem like that much when I got in the back); the Mazda on the other hand had significantly more hip room front and rear and more shoulder and head room in the rear as well. Size wise the Mazda3 felt a bit roomier inside, but on paper the two cars are pretty much a wash.
"But what about the fuel savings?" someone else asked. Hmmm, let's see; given that my commute was about 95% steady state Interstate 75 mph cruising, the Mazda3 was averaging about 33 mpg, from co-workers I learned that one might expect about 40 mpg at those same speeds. My first year with the Mazda3 saw just over 45,000 miles roll by at an average of 32.5 mpg; the fuel costs for that year at an average of $2.00 per gallon worked out to about $2,800. Fuel costs for a Prius running at 40 mpg would have been $2,250; a savings of a whopping $550 per year. At that rate it would have taken me nearly sixteen years and 720,000 miles to break even on the cost difference between the Mazda3 (just under $16,000) and a Prius (the deal I was offered was $24,000).
Fast forward to the age of the four dollar gallon of gasoline and we're still talking a break even point of over 8 years and 360,000 miles. Geez am I glad I bought the Mazda; what a fun little car to drive.
So far so good, but it's hard to tell at this point; the company I started with in November of 2008 saw their stock price drop by over 90% and I didn't survive the massive purges that followed. I'm now driving a whopping seven miles each way to the commuter bus depot where I catch a daily express bus in and out of Boston. My annual mileage has dropped from over 45,000 miles per year to something less than 8,000 (a pity as I actually enjoyed the old commute). At this rate it will be a very long time indeed before the Mazda even hits 100,000 miles much less a quarter of a million and beyond.
I am sorry to hear about the work situations. 45,000 miles per year to 8,000 miles is quite the drop. I would guess you would want to keep the Mazda for a longer period of time if the work situations remain fluid.
The work situation wasn't all bad; I was "on the beach" for ten weeks and the new job paid so much more that by the end of the first year with the new company I'd more than made up the money I didn't make while I was job hunting.
As far as the Mazda is concerned; I don't see any reason to change anytime soon; that said, I recently found a 2002 540i 6-Speed with only 40,000 miles, and geez was I sorely tempted. I sure am glad that car is no longer on the market.
Our family of four can fit a lot more comfortably in the Prius than the Corolla, especially with the extra luggage space in the back, so from a practical standpoint, the Corolla was too small in comparison to the Prius. The same with the Mazda3 & Civic...neither of them worked for our family of 4 plus our stuff. With those out of the picture, then next size up was Fusion, Camry or Accord.
I guess if you're just looking for a strictly highway commuter, then a compact or diesel would be the way to go, but if you're looking for a car to haul around the family, then I've found the Prius to be a better fit.
If I had 100,000 miles of highway to drive every year, then I'd get a TDI too. At 50mpg & $4 gas, that's $8,000 in cost, as compared to $11,428 at 35mpg or $3428 savings each year. Plus at that type of driving is very easy on a car.
If I had 100,000 miles of highway to drive every year, then I'd get a TDI too.
If I had 100,000 miles of driving a year, I would slit my wrists. If I even had 20,000 miles a year I would want all the comfort I could afford. That is a lot of road time. That would be 2 hours or more a day, 5 days a week. Beating yourself to death in a car with marginal suspension is not a pleasant thought. Even if you can fit 4 with all their stuff. Much of my youth was spent bouncing around in the back of a PU truck. Very similar to the rides I have had in my buddies Prius. I don't care if gas & diesel goes to $10 per gallon. I may drive less miles and make less frivolous trips to the store. IF someone were to die and leave me a Prius. I would probably use it for my local driving which is about 6 miles total loop from home to bank, to store, to library, to post office, to church and back home. About all I can think it would be good for. Except we do have more than our share of potholes I would have to slalom around to avoid kidney damage.
I would not argue at all with ones requirements, wants needs as one sees it or wants.
As for me, if one has that much stuff to haul around and/or do a higher percentage of "family " driving, not a lot beats a diesel version. The diesel version (of like models) starts to make sense beginning around 20,000 miles per year. If one is comparing competitors, like the Toyota Camry Hybrid vs a VW Jetta TDI sedan or JSW, it makes sense from the get go, as the Toyota Camry Hybrid is thousands more. The EPA and www.fueleconomy.gov figures show the Jetta/JSW TDI getting over all BETTER fuel mileage than the (TCH) Hybrid.
From what I am seeing out there. For those that like the low slung vehicles for family use. I do not think the VW Sportswagen TDI can be beat. Lots of room for stuff. Handles like a German sports car with plenty of torque for the mountains and Interstates. With Speed limits headed up to 85 MPH the diesel option is even better. You would be lucky to get 30 MPG in a Prius cruising all day at 85 MPH. That is if you survived. I doubt it is all that stable or safe at that speed.
My former coworkers up here in New Hampshire with Priuses (Preii?) both told me they were lucky to get 40 mpg at 75 mph; I'm betting a Prius at 85 would be lucky to get 30 mpg. Geez, my 2002 530i 5-Speed (which I picked up in Munich) was able to sustain 24 mpg at 120 mph; will a Prius even do 100, and if it can, how bad will the mileage be?
At speeds above 50mph or so, it is essentially a Corolla with skinnier tires and some extra bits and pieces that have slightly lower drag. If you're looking for highway hyper-milling, it's not the optimal solution.
Why are we even talking about mileage a "far above legal" speeds in the USA?
Far above? Hmmm, Michigan has their speed limit at 75, here in New Hampshire it is 65 but the average flow of traffic is more like 75.
I got 48 MPG at 77 MPH in my TCH. For brief spurts.
Forty-eight? Down-hill with the wind to your tail? Short of some much more significant evidence I cannot believe a Prius is even remotely capable of sustaining that kind of fuel consumption at that speed.
And my many (twice a year) trips to Texas, involving speed limits from 75-80, give me tanks of 33-37 MPG consistently in a TCH.
Is that impressive?
When I used to do that same trip in a 2004 HCH, I had tanks of 44-56 MPG.
Forty-four in that car I might believe, fifty-six? Not happening.
A Prius can do a 50+ tank at 75-80 MPH, GUARANTEED.
No chance unless it's descending the Continental Divide with a mid-latitude cyclone on your tail.
That's not to say it's any better at high speeds than a TDI - it's probably NOT.
I was referring to the gent who spoke about 100 and 120 MPH gas mileage - not the 75s.
I you don't believe my post about the 48 MPG at 77 MPH, go search it on YouTube. I posted a video. It has 10,000+ views.
The TCH 33-37 MPG figure was to point out that if a TCH, rated about 15 MPG less than a Prius, can get 33-37 at those speeds, then it's reasonable to think that a Prius can get 48-52 MPG at those speeds.
Here are my Top Five tanks in my 2004 HCH, all of which I kept in a spreadsheet which I still keep and refer to often:
56.0 City tank 55.3 City tank 54.6 Highway tank 53.9 City tank 53.8 City tank
So I got ALMOST 55 MPG on a highway tank - not 56 as I previously mentioned. Pretty close though. :shades:
I know lots of folks that have them too. Out here in the Southwest, we have long stretches of undisturbed interstates. You can do a little Googling and find lots of people reporting over 50 MPH for highway tanks in Priuses.
I was the guy talking about 120 mph; driven legally with the Cruise Control on no less.
Gas mileage heroics in a Prius typically require unsafe driving; no thanks. I mean geez, our old beater two-ton 3.8 liter Dodge Grand Caravan could turn in well over 30 mpg if I was to have driven it at 50 mph on the Interstate; not at all impressive (or safe for that matter).
You sound like a very avid Prius supporter, owner and fan, so you would be a good person to ask this maybe? What is the highest top speed any of your fellow Priui group have gone? After all the initial battery power has been used up (at 85 mph this is probably measured in 2 digit minutes) will they even do 100 or 110 mph on flat ground and if so, what does your mileage computer say it is getting? Although, I would not be surprised to learn it is not even calibrated to show that low a number.
An engine in a hybrid that is not sized or designed to do all the work for a relatively constant highway blast/commute, is simply not an efficient design for those times, so you can be reasonably assured that inefficient results will prevail.
Yes, you make a strong case for much larger fleets of diesels; to get much higher mpg's !!! Trust me, (given the right cycles and reasons) I'd buy a VW Polo TDI that gets an advertised (70-75 mpg). This would make a Prius and my current Civic at 38-42 mpg look like fuel guzzlers !!
2 million people have forked out cash for it so far, and climbing. I'm sure a small percentage of them hated it - but the vast majority do not hate it.
Just because it had a reputation of being an "elitist" car when it first got popular is no reason to dislike it now.
It's the best high-mileage car in America, with the sales numbers to prove it.
And how many of those 2 million purchased it for reasons other than status or the 'green' message that a university professor parks outside of his global warming class? Reasons like being allowed to use HOV type lanes. Lanes that originally were docketed for use with the anticipation of at least doubling a user's fuel mileage, and more if the driver has managed to pool even more than one passenger. And Prius hybrids or any other hybrids available to NA as of yet, don't come anywhere close to doubling let alone tripling+ the fuel mileage of your average Civic, Corolla, Elantra, Cruze type user.
So the sales stats have been clouded by other factors, some of which have been politicking. Not a clear indicator by any real world means, IMO.
Thankfully a Civic GX and similar true alternate fuel vehicles still will qualify after California shuts down this program next year. ie - no new stickers for hybrids after 2011 - so sorry, sucks to be you - now get a passenger or two if you want access, like the rest of us.
ruking1 says, "And how many of those 2 million purchased it for reasons other than status or the 'green' message that a university professor parks outside of his global warming class?"
My response to that is "who cares?"
People have many different reasons for doing lots of different things.
Regardless of the reason, it's a clean-emission, high-mileage 5-passenger mid-size car, and there are not a lot of them available to USA drivers.
Indeed comparing 2 M in GLOBAL sales of Prius vs 50+ % of JUST the European passenger car fleet of 135.25 M ( European PVF 270.5 M ) or 67.625 TIMES more . Whether I or you agree with the markets I think the numbers make it pretty clear. US numbers make it very clear higher barriers to outright banning are the rules.
Comments
A typical tech today probably has 50,000 worth of tools in his toolbox. He pays for these himself.
Still, a good tech can make a decent wage but it is tough physical work. Walk into any dealership or indy shop and see how many over 40 techs you see.
BTW...if you average 27mpg in the Camry & 50mpg in the Prius you'll save about $1000/year in the Prius, so yes it would take a few years to pay off the difference, unless you drove > 15,000 miles/year or gas goes up even more. And I like the versatility of the hatchback design of the Prius over the Camry, since it can hold more cargo.
As far as a Jetta TDI Sportswagon, it starts at $25K, so there's another couple of thousand on top of the Prius, just to get the same mpg as a Prius (yes, I know that if you drive 100% of the time on the highway the TDI will get you better MPG :P ). But as I've posted before, gas is only one cost in a car, and the potential repair bills of a VW would steer me well clear of the TDI.
But if you currently have an '04 Civic that runs good, I'd say that's the best car for your commutes and not to change it. These types of comparisons only make sense if you NEED to buy a car because the one you have is falling apart or doesn't meet your needs anymore.
He employs a few techs, a couple are older guys as there is demand for repair work on old cars. They don't flinch at fixing the fintail, so I'm happy - the dealer would hose me on anything more than an oil change on that thing.
If you go to a Lexus dealer with an older model they will hose you on EVERYTHING including an oil change. The local Lexus dealer is why I would not consider another Lexus. That and my wife hates the looks of all the newer models.
That and unlike the competition, Lexus does not offer any diesel models. No wonder they are relegated to 3rd or 4th place now in sales. Audi, BMW and MB all have cars and SUVs with diesel option. So you can have your luxury and economy both.
In Europe, Lexus has a diesel IS, but nothing else diesel.
Dealerships used to despise doing warrenty work so I'm kind suprised they don't welcome customer pay jobs?
Sounds like you found a great shop. Email me and let me know who it is.
http://www.tlc-auto.com/
I think with MB trying to improve image to new car buyers, they are probably told to coddle a certain set. The labor rates are just insane for customer pay work.
I'll email...you can search for the shop too, it is near Park Place and the Acura/BMW dealers. People rave about it on yelp etc.
Heck, once when my car was running late, he even had his fiance come and pick me up to collect it after hours. Not bad.
I think with older LS, many who drive them can't afford it, but like with old MB, they can take a lot of abuse before they finally die.
I wonder if there will ever be a diesel LS.
That would have been a much wiser move than that silly LS hybrid that gets worse mileage on the highway than the conventional LS460 L. How smart was that?
Except that the equivalent to the Prius is actually a Corolla (they make a Corolla hatchback in Japan witch looks not too unsurprisingly like.. a Prius). Comparing a Prius to a typical compact car gives you a $300-$500 per year savings at best, and with a $5K or more price difference, it's likely as long as you'll own the car to break even.
So price has a lot to do with it. What we are missing are the 14-15K range diesels like they get in Europe. If you have to pay $25K for a diesel or hybrid, it obliterates any cost savings over just getting the Civic.
Note - an exception to all of this idiocy is the CNG Civic, which averages almost 75-80mpg equivalent with today's gas prices.
Azusa, CA - CNG price : $2.12
Azusa, CA Gas price: $4.05 (gasbuddy.com) (avg in L.A. is $4.13 - this is low and gas prices are rising to an expected $4.30 - $4.50 by summer!)
Civic CNG - 24/36MPG(28 avg) X 1.91 = 45.8/68.8 (53.5 avg)
Gas and diesel prices are not regulated and are subject to speculation and market forces. CNG is heavily regulated and prices are closely matched to inflation and actual costs. With Gas (and diesel) prices expected to hit $5 a gallon in 2-3 years, it's a no-brainer to get one of these if you live in an urban area.
EDIT - yes, the CNG Civic costs the same $5-6K more as the Hybrids and diesels, but with fuel prices at nearly half gasoline or diesel, you're looking at paying off that difference in 4-5 years in most scenarios.
You almost have to be a dedicated enthusiast to own a diesel in this country. Whole diff. attitude in Europe & the UK......
IIRC local MB labor rates are 130 or more. I know there's a lot of overhead and expenses, but come on.
The various contenders for my money included Prius, Corolla, Mazda3, Civic, and Jetta/Rabbit. In the end it was a toss-up between the Rabbit and the Mazda3 (Jetta TDIs were in extremely short supply back then as well; short as in virtually unobtainable), and given that VW was in the midst of its model change-over (Mark V to Mark VI if I recall correctly), supplies of Rabbits were extremely limited; the Mazda3 won. Honorable mention went to the Civic (even with its bizarre instrument cluster), the Corolla had no soul and was easily dismissed. "The Prius?" one might ask, yeesh, if the Corolla had no soul, the Prius was still-born; I truly believe that there will never be a single person that enjoys driving that would ever be happy in such a vehicle.
"How about the extra room in the Prius?" a second person asked. Ummm yeah, about that. The only measurement the Prius had over the Mazda3 was an extra 2.3 inches of leg room in the rear (it didn't seem like that much when I got in the back); the Mazda on the other hand had significantly more hip room front and rear and more shoulder and head room in the rear as well. Size wise the Mazda3 felt a bit roomier inside, but on paper the two cars are pretty much a wash.
"But what about the fuel savings?" someone else asked. Hmmm, let's see; given that my commute was about 95% steady state Interstate 75 mph cruising, the Mazda3 was averaging about 33 mpg, from co-workers I learned that one might expect about 40 mpg at those same speeds. My first year with the Mazda3 saw just over 45,000 miles roll by at an average of 32.5 mpg; the fuel costs for that year at an average of $2.00 per gallon worked out to about $2,800. Fuel costs for a Prius running at 40 mpg would have been $2,250; a savings of a whopping $550 per year. At that rate it would have taken me nearly sixteen years and 720,000 miles to break even on the cost difference between the Mazda3 (just under $16,000) and a Prius (the deal I was offered was $24,000).
Fast forward to the age of the four dollar gallon of gasoline and we're still talking a break even point of over 8 years and 360,000 miles. Geez am I glad I bought the Mazda; what a fun little car to drive.
As far as the Mazda is concerned; I don't see any reason to change anytime soon; that said, I recently found a 2002 540i 6-Speed with only 40,000 miles, and geez was I sorely tempted. I sure am glad that car is no longer on the market.
I guess if you're just looking for a strictly highway commuter, then a compact or diesel would be the way to go, but if you're looking for a car to haul around the family, then I've found the Prius to be a better fit.
If I had 100,000 miles of highway to drive every year, then I'd get a TDI too. At 50mpg & $4 gas, that's $8,000 in cost, as compared to $11,428 at 35mpg or $3428 savings each year. Plus at that type of driving is very easy on a car.
If I had 100,000 miles of driving a year, I would slit my wrists. If I even had 20,000 miles a year I would want all the comfort I could afford. That is a lot of road time. That would be 2 hours or more a day, 5 days a week. Beating yourself to death in a car with marginal suspension is not a pleasant thought. Even if you can fit 4 with all their stuff. Much of my youth was spent bouncing around in the back of a PU truck. Very similar to the rides I have had in my buddies Prius. I don't care if gas & diesel goes to $10 per gallon. I may drive less miles and make less frivolous trips to the store. IF someone were to die and leave me a Prius. I would probably use it for my local driving which is about 6 miles total loop from home to bank, to store, to library, to post office, to church and back home. About all I can think it would be good for. Except we do have more than our share of potholes I would have to slalom around to avoid kidney damage.
As for me, if one has that much stuff to haul around and/or do a higher percentage of "family " driving, not a lot beats a diesel version. The diesel version (of like models) starts to make sense beginning around 20,000 miles per year. If one is comparing competitors, like the Toyota Camry Hybrid vs a VW Jetta TDI sedan or JSW, it makes sense from the get go, as the Toyota Camry Hybrid is thousands more. The EPA and www.fueleconomy.gov figures show the Jetta/JSW TDI getting over all BETTER fuel mileage than the (TCH) Hybrid.
Again I have never gotten a STRAIGHT answer from a Prius owner about the mpg at speed limits of 80-85 mph.
I got 48 MPG at 77 MPH in my TCH. For brief spurts.
And my many (twice a year) trips to Texas, involving speed limits from 75-80, give me tanks of 33-37 MPG consistently in a TCH.
When I used to do that same trip in a 2004 HCH, I had tanks of 44-56 MPG.
A Prius can do a 50+ tank at 75-80 MPH, GUARANTEED.
That's not to say it's any better at high speeds than a TDI - it's probably NOT.
But it doesn't become a mileage DOG, either.
Far above? Hmmm, Michigan has their speed limit at 75, here in New Hampshire it is 65 but the average flow of traffic is more like 75.
I got 48 MPG at 77 MPH in my TCH. For brief spurts.
Forty-eight? Down-hill with the wind to your tail? Short of some much more significant evidence I cannot believe a Prius is even remotely capable of sustaining that kind of fuel consumption at that speed.
And my many (twice a year) trips to Texas, involving speed limits from 75-80, give me tanks of 33-37 MPG consistently in a TCH.
Is that impressive?
When I used to do that same trip in a 2004 HCH, I had tanks of 44-56 MPG.
Forty-four in that car I might believe, fifty-six? Not happening.
A Prius can do a 50+ tank at 75-80 MPH, GUARANTEED.
No chance unless it's descending the Continental Divide with a mid-latitude cyclone on your tail.
That's not to say it's any better at high speeds than a TDI - it's probably NOT.
No argument there.
But it doesn't become a mileage DOG, either.
Not according to the folks I know that have them.
I you don't believe my post about the 48 MPG at 77 MPH, go search it on YouTube. I posted a video. It has 10,000+ views.
The TCH 33-37 MPG figure was to point out that if a TCH, rated about 15 MPG less than a Prius, can get 33-37 at those speeds, then it's reasonable to think that a Prius can get 48-52 MPG at those speeds.
Here are my Top Five tanks in my 2004 HCH, all of which I kept in a spreadsheet which I still keep and refer to often:
56.0 City tank
55.3 City tank
54.6 Highway tank
53.9 City tank
53.8 City tank
So I got ALMOST 55 MPG on a highway tank - not 56 as I previously mentioned. Pretty close though. :shades:
I know lots of folks that have them too. Out here in the Southwest, we have long stretches of undisturbed interstates. You can do a little Googling and find lots of people reporting over 50 MPH for highway tanks in Priuses.
Gas mileage heroics in a Prius typically require unsafe driving; no thanks. I mean geez, our old beater two-ton 3.8 liter Dodge Grand Caravan could turn in well over 30 mpg if I was to have driven it at 50 mph on the Interstate; not at all impressive (or safe for that matter).
I can't recall, however, seeing or reading about a story where a Prius was in a high-speed crash due to faulty design of the vehicle.
I was focusing on the MPG claims that Priuses were/are dogs at highway speeds. They aren't.
An engine in a hybrid that is not sized or designed to do all the work for a relatively constant highway blast/commute, is simply not an efficient design for those times, so you can be reasonably assured that inefficient results will prevail.
Sam
http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/polo/2012/#fullreview
This is a hint that it may not be optimized to be much of a *CAR*.
This is one of the funniest things I have read here on Edmunds! LOL
I know that you were speaking factually also though, but it really struck a funny bone in me.
The rest of your post was spot-on too.
Sam
Just because it had a reputation of being an "elitist" car when it first got popular is no reason to dislike it now.
It's the best high-mileage car in America, with the sales numbers to prove it.
So the sales stats have been clouded by other factors, some of which have been politicking. Not a clear indicator by any real world means, IMO.
Sam
My response to that is "who cares?"
People have many different reasons for doing lots of different things.
Regardless of the reason, it's a clean-emission, high-mileage 5-passenger mid-size car, and there are not a lot of them available to USA drivers.