Real-World Trade-In Values

Mr_Shiftright

No I haven't yet @nyccarguy. I suspect the turbo will feel different than the older supercharger. Is that what you're referring to? I would hope that the actual gear change operation is different (better)?

tifighter

Mr_Shiftright said:

Hi Q! -- what are you seeing for a 2012 Mini Cooper Clubman S, 67,000 miles, fully loaded up, SF Bay Area, 6-speed manual, chocolate brown, top shape? Asking $10,800.

And you think the R53 was a problem child...

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

Hi Q! -- what are you seeing for a 2012 Mini Cooper Clubman S, 67,000 miles, fully loaded up, SF Bay Area, 6-speed manual, chocolate brown, top shape? Asking $10,800.

These vary quite a bit. If real clean and fully loaded, as you say, I'll look to the top of the spectrum. So 6500-7k is possible at auction.

nyccarguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

No I haven't yet @nyccarguy. I suspect the turbo will feel different than the older supercharger. Is that what you're referring to? I would hope that the actual gear change operation is different (better)?

I drove one once (an ‘09 S) and didn’t particularly care for the clutch operation.  High clutch take up & vague-ish shifter.  I drove a friend’s Automatic S Drop Top & liked it much better!

Mr_Shiftright

The automatic makes sense but I'm just not ready for an automatic. It's like when you ask Grandpa to give up his car keys.

As some of you may recall, I spent an afternoon once comparing the parts and labor charges for similar operations on both a Mini Cooper and a Porsche 911--I did this at my friend's Porsche/Audi shop and also consulted with Bay Bridge Motors on the Mini.

Conclusion? Pretty close cost per mile. The only non-comparo was the engine, but the Porsche and Mini auto trans were about the same, as were most other operations like clutch, sunroof repair, alternator, AC, etc.

The Porsche brake job was more though, but unless it was a special Porsche, not THAT much more.

Ridiculous when you think about it.

Mr_Shiftright

Q my man----what do the auctions say about a 2008 Cadillac XLR with 30K miles but an "accident" ding on CARFAX?

Thank you in advance. Shifty

28firefighter

I'm about to make a stupid emotional purchase, so I need a sanity check before I actually go and do it. I've wanted one of these for a while...

2002 Saab 9-3 Viggen 4-door Sedan
106k miles
6spd
Gray Exterior
Black Leather Interior
Full service records from both dealer and known Saab Mechanic up here

Recent clutch, water pump, oil change etc. Not sure on timing chain. Also some weeping seals/gaskets that the mechanic called out as needing repair as part of routine maintenance in the near future (I'm asking just how much that quote was for).

Asking is $6000 which feels high. I'm thinking its probably a $4000-$5000 car....

nyccarguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

Q my man----what do the auctions say about a 2008 Cadillac XLR with 30K miles but an "accident" ding on CARFAX?

Thank you in advance. Shifty

$5.00

qbrozen

You certainly are busy lately.

Auctions don't say anything about carfax. The couple that had 30k'ish miles were $25k a piece. Very good condition report.

With 50k miles, they were $21k-$22k. And with 75k miles, one was $19k. Leads me to believe these aren't faced with super anal buyers like some other "exotics." So maybe apply the standard 20% rule? (yeah, OK, its a rule I totally made up, so take it for what its worth)

qbrozen

28firefighter said:

I'm about to make a stupid emotional purchase, so I need a sanity check before I actually go and do it. I've wanted one of these for a while...

2002 Saab 9-3 Viggen 4-door Sedan
106k miles
6spd
Gray Exterior
Black Leather Interior
Full service records from both dealer and known Saab Mechanic up here

Recent clutch, water pump, oil change etc. Not sure on timing chain. Also some weeping seals/gaskets that the mechanic called out as needing repair as part of routine maintenance in the near future (I'm asking just how much that quote was for).

Asking is $6000 which feels high. I'm thinking its probably a $4000-$5000 car....

100k-miles unpopular orphan with the unpopular transmission and fixed roof. hmmm...

of course, I have zero comps, so gonna go with my gut on this one and say I feel like $3500 is the end of the world.

28firefighter

Interesting. Thanks!

stickguy

I would probably buy it for $3,500, if it was a better color combo. Or a wagon. But, I am not know for having common sense. Cheap, heck yeah. Rational? Not so much.

28firefighter

The seals and gasket work it needs would be about $2000. So $3500 feels right. KBB puts it at 4-6 depending on mechanical needs. 

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

Interesting. Thanks!

$3000-$4000 is my number, as well..

stickguy

2 grand for some gaskets? How the heck bad is it leaking? I would just get a nice pan for the garage floor and check fluid levels often. Considering if I bought something like this, it might get 4-5K miles/year, max, could probably ignore that minor item.

28firefighter

kyfdx said:

Interesting. Thanks!

$3000-$4000 is my number, as well..

Is that factoring in the inevitable maintenance on it?

28firefighter

stickguy said:

2 grand for some gaskets? How the heck bad is it leaking? I would just get a nice pan for the garage floor and check fluid levels often. Considering if I bought something like this, it might get 4-5K miles/year, max, could probably ignore that minor item.

I'm not surprised at the cost. If the seals are buried in such a way that its labor intensive, its probably just time rather than parts.

I probably would not get it done. My guess is that it is nothing serious and I doubt I would hold onto this long-term unless I truly loved it. Incentives on the cars I'm looking at aren't great and this would be a fairly low risk way to see if I actually want to DD a stick here in Seattle. Plenty big to hold Sam and Swedish safe.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

You certainly are busy lately.

Auctions don't say anything about carfax. The couple that had 30k'ish miles were $25k a piece. Very good condition report.

With 50k miles, they were $21k-$22k. And with 75k miles, one was $19k. Leads me to believe these aren't faced with super anal buyers like some other "exotics." So maybe apply the standard 20% rule? (yeah, OK, its a rule I totally made up, so take it for what its worth)

I am busy lately. The old guys are passing away and all kinds of cars are coming up for sale.

Yes I would agree with roughly 20% deduct for a CARFAX hit, depending on what it says. Sometimes CARFAX elaborates, even quite graphically, and sometimes the accident description is rather casual. If you see "structural damage"---that's BAD. But if it says "involved in a rear end collision, no air bag deployed"--somehow that's not a as frightening.

I also agree with you that an XLR buyer is not going to freak out about a CARFAX like a Porsche buyer.

I think I'm going to hit this one retail at $22K. Thanks Q, very helpful.

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

kyfdx said:

28firefighter said:

Interesting. Thanks!

$3000-$4000 is my number, as well..

Is that factoring in the inevitable maintenance on it?

Doesn't matter what has been disclosed.. eventual expensive maintenance is inevitable.
It's a 16 yr old euro vehicle with over 100K miles.

From the description, it's had fairly regular maintenance.. I just based that on what I think it's worth. (the Viggen part is cool... doesn't add more than $500.. the stickshift is a bigger selling point than anything else).

28firefighter

I may end up walking away. I'm not sure I have it in me to go take this guy's time to look at it and then offer 50% less...this is why I'm glad I post here for sanity checks!

Mr_Shiftright

Well the retail "asking" price is close to what they are asking but given the miles and the "orphan status", I would probably hit it at around $4500 if it was really really nice. Any scraps, bumps, non-working items etc, and all downhill from there--FAST. I"m not saying I'd BUY it for that--just that I'd probably appraise it for that.

28firefighter

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/6576486636.html

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

I may end up walking away. I'm not sure I have it in me to go take this guy's time to look at it and then offer 50% less...this is why I'm glad I post here for sanity checks!

We test drove a local 9-3 X Aero, a little while back. 6-speed AWD, turbo V-6, 280 hp..

Pretty cool, but the guy was asking $8K, IIRC, and it seemed to have a clutch/shifter issue.
Probably worth $4K, but I didn't want it with those problems already apparent. So, never made an offer.

Didn't bother me taking a test drive, though. Someone has to be the first one to bring the guy back to earth.

kyfdx

Looking is good practice... for when you find the right car.

qbrozen

28firefighter said:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/6576486636.html

"Baby forces sale."

...because a 5-door hatch can't carry kids??

stickguy

maybe Baby was his girlfriend, and his wife found out and is divorcing him?

nyccarguy

Viggen - Swedish for “torque steer.”  There’s not much more bad I can tell you that the others haven’t already.  You seem to have figured out that this car is to “finicky” for you to enjoy.  Nothing spoils a fun car like a ride on Please back of a flatbed.

I can tell you that I leased a 2000 Saab 9-3 “base” model for 3 years from 12/99 - 12/02.  It was an absolute blast to drive even with “only” 185 hp/185 lb-ft of torque and an automatic.  It had a very solid, European ride quality and very comfortable seats.  Now part of what I loved about it was that it was a lease and I turned it in just as the odometer rolled over 36,000 miles.  

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

28firefighter said:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/6576486636.html

"Baby forces sale."

...because a 5-door hatch can't carry kids??

Because, he doesn’t like walking, carrying a baby in a car seat.

That’s why I sold my ‘82 Accord. Carb problems and a baby don’t mix. (Carburetor. You can look it up)

28firefighter

I emailed the seller and was totally upfront and said even if everything checked out, I’d be at $3-$4k. Told him to send me a note in a few days if he hasn’t made progress and that I totally understood waiting to see if he got any bites at $6k. 

I think he feels it’s worth more because it’s a Viggen. To me it’s a 15 year old European car that already needs work at some point. 

palmetto321

Have a 2013 M5 with Executive Package, B&O stereo, 20" wheels, multiview cameras, lane keep assist & BLIS (I think this was called Driver Assistance Package). Just under 72,000 miles. Car is in reasonably good shape w/ a clean Carfax (I purchased as a CPO BMW). Some maintenance will likely be needed in the not too distant future, but overall it looks very good for its age & stage.

Trade in offers are all over the map. What are you seeing?

explorerx4

@palmetto321,
Exterior/interior colors and your location will help.

qbrozen

28firefighter said:

I emailed the seller and was totally upfront and said even if everything checked out, I’d be at $3-$4k. Told him to send me a note in a few days if he hasn’t made progress and that I totally understood waiting to see if he got any bites at $6k. 

I think he feels it’s worth more because it’s a Viggen. To me it’s a 15 year old European car that already needs work at some point. 

An S60 T5 is quicker, more comfy, available with a manual, and not an orphan.

palmetto321

explorerx4 said:

@palmetto321,
Exterior/interior colors and your location will help.

Sorry - Exterior is Monte Carlo Blue. Interior is Silverstone (light tan). Location is Charleston, SC

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

28firefighter said:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/6576486636.html

"Baby forces sale."

...because a 5-door hatch can't carry kids??

Smart baby--that kid is going places later in life!

Mr_Shiftright

28firefighter said:

I emailed the seller and was totally upfront and said even if everything checked out, I’d be at $3-$4k. Told him to send me a note in a few days if he hasn’t made progress and that I totally understood waiting to see if he got any bites at $6k. 

I think he feels it’s worth more because it’s a Viggen. To me it’s a 15 year old European car that already needs work at some point. 

I can assure you from price guides and auctions that a Viggen edition is worth absolutely zero as an add-on.

roadburner

Color?
Location?

28firefighter

@qbrozen - none really for sale up here with the manual. But I’m watching. 

explorerx4

@qbrozen, If you are asking about the BMW, answers were posted just after your S60 comment.

palmetto321

Sorry to piecemeal it. I suppose I should also specify that it is a DCT not a manual.

qbrozen

M5 should be right about $30k

Mr_Shiftright

Q--how do you think a dealer would value a 2005 Mercedes SL55 AMG with TWO accidents on CARFAX?

I guess my question is: after the first one, does it matter anymore? CARFAX gives no details.

qbrozen

Uhhh... well, if it means more painted body panels, maybe. But, then again, I guess paintwork is paintwork. I gotta imagine any accident really hurts on that car. Buyers of an SL55 probably want pristine. Could be quite saleproof.

Mr_Shiftright

Well that's what I thought, but really, an SL55 AMG is just a used car. It doesn't behave like a collectible (meaning, the older ones are worth less than the newer ones). I just thought it was interesting to think about---do 2 accidents matter twice as much as one accident?

I'd imagine you are right though that fussy buyers would scatter like quail at the sight of that CARFAX, but if the car looked and drove very nicely, maybe a 20% nick would suffice for any buyer who just wants to look rich for cheap? Seems like you can find these all day long in the $15K range. Potential maintenance costs are probably more of a damper on value than the CARFAX.

qbrozen

I guess if fixed right, $15k or so for a german droptop that will dispense with the 1/4 mile in 13 flat could be cheap fun.

BTW, if you are seeing them for $15k, I'd guess they either have high mileage or dirty carfax or both. Clean ones with 70k or less are $16k and up at auction.

28firefighter

I’ll give you a quarter for it, @Mr_Shiftright

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

I guess if fixed right, $15k or so for a german droptop that will dispense with the 1/4 mile in 13 flat could be cheap fun.

BTW, if you are seeing them for $15k, I'd guess they either have high mileage or dirty carfax or both. Clean ones with 70k or less are $16k and up at auction.

Yes, relatively high mileage, at or a bit over 100K miles. I've seen very clean low mileage ones closer to $20K. The problem in California is that they are as common as flower pots, so buyers can pick and choose at their leisure. There were like 10 of them just on my local Craigslist.

28firefighter

OK Q. Another one for you.

2007 Volvo V70 R AWD
Gray Exterior
Blue Nordkap Leather Interior
6spd
160k miles
Rear Park Assist
Recent work includes Clutch/Slave, Timing Belt, Brakes, New Tires.
1-Owner

Car is located in Atlanta.

I'm asking about the Bevel Gear. Seller is asking for $11,7 which seems crazy to me given the mileage. What is the actual number? I recognize this one is a bit of a rare bird...

qbrozen

Good god. IMHO, after 150k miles, you are merely gambling. How much are you willing to lose should the car blow up in a week? I kinda feel like $4500 is my limit.

nyccarguy

28firefighter said:

OK Q. Another one for you.

2007 Volvo V70 R AWD
Gray Exterior
Blue Nordkap Leather Interior
6spd
160k miles
Rear Park Assist
Recent work includes Clutch/Slave, Timing Belt, Brakes, New Tires.
1-Owner

Car is located in Atlanta.

I'm asking about the Bevel Gear. Seller is asking for $11,7 which seems crazy to me given the mileage. What is the actual number? I recognize this one is a bit of a rare bird...

You are traveling down a very dark path my friend.

28firefighter

Yep - that's the sanity check I needed.