Real-World Trade-In Values

cosanostra

Thanks. I wasn't expecting much - "inherited" it from my parents, so anything is a plus.

tj11119

Q,

In comparing two vehicles (same model/year/condition) but with different mileage, what rule of thumb factor or $cents per mile do you use to evaluate the true price of a low mileage car? For example you have A with 40k miles and B with 15k?
I know its not exact science, but just a rough estimate helps, specially for common high production cars like late model bmw 3 and audi A4 series.

qbrozen

depends on the brand and the value. When talking about a $30k used BMW, it is typically about $100 per 1k miles. A $15k used mazda is about $75/1k. The range is usually $50 up to $150, depending. Of course, as you get into really cheap cars, that has far less of an impact.

Mr_Shiftright

Thanks Q --good info.

Sometimes the inverse of low impact on cheap cars is also true--that some cars of high value suffer an unusually high impact.

On a Ferrari, for instance, the depreciation for mileage is massive. A Ferrari with say 60,000 miles on it is basically unsaleable at any tolerable price.

This would also be true, to a less drastic extent however, for most exotic, highly complex luxury cars, especially if they are out of warranty.

qbrozen

I believe Galves used to have something like a $250/1k penalty on even semi-exotics like the R8 or 750iL. I'm not sure they even bothered tracking Ferraris and Lambos.

tj11119

Appreciate the information. Some dealers are just overly optimistic of their pricing of low mileage examples. This helps as a good basis to negotiate them down to reasonable terms. Btw I am looking at 2013-14 328's/A4's -sadly no semi-exotics yet for me

Sandman6472

Have a feeling my 2015 VW Golf SE is now worth somewhere in the $13.5K range or lower due to the recent accident. It looks good, really good, but bet a seasoned used vehicle guy will be able to spot the repair. And once it hits the CarFax, I'm gonna take a ding in the how much it's worth department. Just hit 40K yesterday, so at this point, gonna keep it for the time being and do the diminished value stuff and hopefully get some of that lost $ back. Since I did nothing wrong here, I feel more strongly about going forward on the dv case as I'll need that extra cash when I do in fact get a newer vehicle.
Learned that an accident can happen anywhere, at any time no matter how careful one is. It's the other folks we need to watch out for and try to be as defensive as possible! Have been hearing some really bad things about Windstream Insurance company and how difficult they make the process of taking responsibility for their drivers mistakes. At least down here, their reputation sucks big time and just wish I had deep enough pockets to sue their assess!! The way they conduct business is disgusting and I plan to make a complaint with the state of Florida's attorney general. Can't hurt, that's for sure, and did that years ago with a shady exercise facility and I got my membership fee paid back because of their deceptive practices. Can't hurt to report them to the attorney general and the Better Business Bureau. Might do squat but I'm tired of being run over by these companies that think they have no civic responsibility and run a shady business. Someone needs to speak up about this insurance scam company and might as well be me. Got nothing to lose really!!

The Sandman :@

corvette

Not sure about FL, but usually, the state's Department of Insurance is the entity that has jurisdiction over insurance companies.

(On that note, Auto-Owners and their local agent are about to get a complaint due to the agent's incompetency and misrepresentations regarding a deceased relative's estate. I'm sure DOI won't do anything, but the agent has earned themselves the headache they'll have to deal with in responding to the complaint. I really can't stand it when someone doesn't know the answer to a question and just makes up a bunch of lies as a answer.)

richman1975

Could I get a real world trade in expectation for a 2016 Subaru Forester XT Premium, white, 37,800 miles, excellent condition, no accidents, no ding or dents, extras are roof rack with rails, window tint, all weather floor mats, wheel locks, rear cargo cover, rear cargo mat and all dealer maintained? I received an offer for $20K but feel it's a little low. I plan on taking it to CarMax this weekend but wanted to see what you guys thought first. Oh, and I'm in New Mexico.

28firefighter

Come the end of the 2018 MY that Forester XT is going to be more desirable, I think, because they'll have stopped making them.

richman1975

28firefighter said:

Come the end of the 2018 MY that Forester XT is going to be more desirable, I think, because they'll have stopped making them.

I agree.

qbrozen

richman1975 said:

Could I get a real world trade in expectation for a 2016 Subaru Forester XT Premium, white, 37,800 miles, excellent condition, no accidents, no ding or dents, extras are roof rack with rails, window tint, all weather floor mats, wheel locks, rear cargo cover, rear cargo mat and all dealer maintained? I received an offer for $20K but feel it's a little low. I plan on taking it to CarMax this weekend but wanted to see what you guys thought first. Oh, and I'm in New Mexico.

That offer baffles me. This was as a trade?? They can buy them in the mid teens at auction with those miles.

richman1975

qbrozen said:

richman1975 said:

Could I get a real world trade in expectation for a 2016 Subaru Forester XT Premium, white, 37,800 miles, excellent condition, no accidents, no ding or dents, extras are roof rack with rails, window tint, all weather floor mats, wheel locks, rear cargo cover, rear cargo mat and all dealer maintained? I received an offer for $20K but feel it's a little low. I plan on taking it to CarMax this weekend but wanted to see what you guys thought first. Oh, and I'm in New Mexico.

That offer baffles me. This was as a trade?? They can buy them in the mid teens at auction with those miles.

Trade in on one of there on the lot vehicles. Are you saying that trade in number is high? I got another offer at $19.5K.

kyfdx

XT is the turbo. Mid teens seems really low

Mr_Shiftright

I think a 2016 XT would retail around $24K--$25K out here in California. For a 2.5 Premium, $19K would be retail.

Miles are a bit high, however. Some cars are more easily "forgiven" for higher miles than others.

richman1975

Yes, mine is the turbo. I bought it in September of 2015, so it was an early 2016.

qbrozen

Judge for yourselves



Can't quite get it all on screen, but that net number is $16,150.

Here are some sales



Obviously some disparity there, but not where I'd ever give $20k for one on trade (if I were a dealer), unless I'm really raking it in on the sale side of the equation.

Mr_Shiftright

Well OK, if we took the optimum end of the range you posted (thanks!) and nicked him $1000 for mileage, then the offer of $19K was more than fair for all parties, seems to me.

Seems like white cars are bringing the best bids, for some odd reason.

qbrozen

Fair for all? If I'm the dealer, I think I'll just head to auction and look for one like that $17k white one. I don't know what to make of that $19,750 unit.
I mean, just average out those 5 alone and you get less than $16k, which is why I said mid teens. And those ALL have lower miles than the one we are attempting to price.

richman1975

Thanks, I guess I'll see what CarMax offers me. I know the last time I took my car to CarMax to sell to them, they gave me about $1k less than I could have sold to a private party, that was a 2013 Honda Pilot AWD EX-L. I know CarMax has one on there site right now for a 2015 XT, not a 2016, for $24K with almost my same mileage. I've had my car for 31 months, your screen grap says avg odo is 20K, that's 7K per year, that doesn't seem realistic. At an avg 12K per year, I should have 31K miles, so yes I'm over the avg but not signaficant. I'll follow up later to let you know what CarMax would give me. Honestly, I'd be surprised if it was less than $20K.

28firefighter

That car in Seattle would bring stupid money on a private sale. Close to what @Mr_Shiftright was initially thinking.

Sandman6472

Did the Manheim auction today in West Palm again, it was actually fun this time. Getting more used to how things work now but it sure was hot out there!!
My Golf finally went over the 40K mark yesterday. Getting some paperwork for my diminished value claim tonight which my kid is bringing home. Need to fill them out and see where this all leads. Figuring on keeping the Golf until it plays out and then see. Sat in a 2017 Mini Cooper Clubman at the auction and liked it, a lot! Nice materials and though I think the rear doors are a G-d holy mess, like the vehicle overall. But think I'd either lease one instead of a purchase because not sure I'm gonna love it after a couple of years. But I'd go for a Countryman also. Since I don't like to put money down, wondering if they could roll the down payment into a larger monthly nut. Hate putting cash down on a depreciating asset to be honest and with a lease, the commitment period is shorter. The reliability issue bothers me somewhat plus I've heard the older ones rode roughly but hoping this newest Countryman has gotten all the bugs out.

The Sandman

qbrozen

richman1975 said:

Thanks, I guess I'll see what CarMax offers me. I know the last time I took my car to CarMax to sell to them, they gave me about $1k less than I could have sold to a private party, that was a 2013 Honda Pilot AWD EX-L. I know CarMax has one on there site right now for a 2015 XT, not a 2016, for $24K with almost my same mileage. I've had my car for 31 months, your screen grap says avg odo is 20K, that's 7K per year, that doesn't seem realistic. At an avg 12K per year, I should have 31K miles, so yes I'm over the avg but not signaficant. I'll follow up later to let you know what CarMax would give me. Honestly, I'd be surprised if it was less than $20K.

Well, for one, that's just the average of what has been through auction recently. Second, though, it is only April. We're still talking 2-yr-old models here, not 3. You may have bought yours early, but that doesn't matter when comparing to others on the market.

I'd be really curious to know what Carmax says.

stickguy

you can always roll everything into a lease and do a true sign and drive. Just end up paying interest on what you roll in.

when I shopped Mini last year, we actually went in to look at the Countryman. But were not impressed by it. Plus the MPG was mediocre, and expensive. But we looked at a normal 4 door HT, and really liked that. seemed nearly as roomy (and big enough if you don't regularly carry lots of people or huge amounts of cargo), quicker, better MPG, and a lot cheaper. So if I had gone that way, it would have been that model.

Michaell

stickguy said:

you can always roll everything into a lease and do a true sign and drive. Just end up paying interest on what you roll in.

when I shopped Mini last year, we actually went in to look at the Countryman. But were not impressed by it. Plus the MPG was mediocre, and expensive. But we looked at a normal 4 door HT, and really liked that. seemed nearly as roomy (and big enough if you don't regularly carry lots of people or huge amounts of cargo), quicker, better MPG, and a lot cheaper. So if I had gone that way, it would have been that model.

I'll add on to this.

@stickguy is right - you can roll everything into the lease payment. We recommend paying just the first payment and registration costs when you sign the paperwork.

There are three 4-door models:

Hardtop - traditional hatch in the back
Clubman - this has the "clamshell" doors in the back
Countryman - this is the quasi-SUV

I've had the Clubman as a loaner the last few times I've taken the daughter's Countryman to the dealer - the new iteration is much more comfortable. Have not tested the new Countryman, but I suspect it too is softer than the one my daughter drives.

The only thing about MINIs is that they can get real expensive, real quick. Don't compare these to a Golf - they are sort of in-between the Golf and the BMW 3-series, price wise. The Countryman can easily get into the mid to upper 30's on price, and $30K isn't unheard of for the 4-door Hardtop or Clubman.

nodananeda

Hey everyone, a mod told me it might be a good idea to post this here, so here it goes.

I'm in the market for a brand used car but don't have a lot of dough to spend. In my price range (a measly $2500) I'm seeing quite a few '01-'02 Volvo S60's and S80's. They look quite nice for my price range, but everyone is telling me that they are expensive to maintain.

The cars I am looking at are in the 120k-180k mile range, and I'd really appreciate some advice going in to this purchase. Are these cars really that expensive to maintain? Should I go for something like a Honda or a Toyota instead? I don't plan on having this car for terribly long (should graduate in 2-3 years) but I would like to get a car that is reliable and economical.

Thanks!

qbrozen

Mazda. Cheaper than toy/onda but as reliable and inexpensive to keep running.

yes, volvo will cost you more in the long run. A FWD 2.5T or 2.4 are reliable, but consumables like suspension and brakes can be problematic and costly. 

stickguy

$2,500 is a tough price range. consider a domestic (Chevy Cobalt or some such). tend to be cheaper to buy (or for same price, you get a lot fewer miles) and still reliable, and usually cheaper to maintain.

where are you located? That can make a difference. and how many miles per year will you put on, and how (all around town, or do you need to take longer trips in it)?

qbrozen

True. If you could find a 2.2 liter Saturn with low miles, that could last you.

28firefighter

Second Mazda.

steine13

Since my automotive formative years were spent in school, this is right up my alley.

$2,500 is tough, though not as tough as it was five years ago. Any chance you can scrounge up a little more money? I'm asking because the used-car market is weak for newer cars. Everyone is buying crossovers and the like, and off-lease sedans are going begging. The low prices move down the chain but they haven't yet had much impact on the sub-$5k market. $6k will buy you one heck of a car that you could drive for ten years, if you pick it right. A $2 car will mostly be a grenade with the pin half out.

You should look for certain makes and models, but at $2-3k you really need to keep an open mind. It's more about the owner a that price point than about the make and model. Location is going to be important. If you're in an area where rust is an issue, older Mazdas might not be much fun. Around here (MI) they rust pretty badly. Hondas are better, Toyotas better still. Problem is, Hondas are popular anywhere and rarely a good deal in any price range. Toyota has fallen from favor somewhat, esp. their cars. A silver or beige Corolla LE with hubcaps isn't going to set anyone's heart aflutter, but if you can find a miley one that's been taken care of, go for it.
Nobody is going to cut you a deal on a 4Runner.

Your Volvo question indicates that you're not really plugged into car culture.
The fact you asked indicates that you're willing to learn. Spend some quality time reading around Edmunds, esp. this forum and maybe some model-specific ones, and you can learn a lot.
And I agree, no Volvos. No Audis. No VWs unless you're handy and then stick to the 2.0 engine and stay away from turbo anything. Manual transmissions are good, but not the Corolla/Matrix/Vibe/Scion tC 5speeds. Somebody was gonna find a way to screw up the stick.
No leather. Those always bring extra in low-end cars. In fact, if you can hold off until mid-June or later; now is THE time for people to buy low-end cars with their tax return money. It's even called 'Tax Season" and it's an expensive time to buy.

Most 4sp autos are unkillable, esp. Japanese, also GM, but not all Fords and not most Chryslers.
Ford Focus 2007 and younger can be a good deal. By now, most of them are rats.

Look for a clean interior. 150k + miles wouldn't scare me if I can take a good look at the car, but then I kinda know what I'm doing. Get a pen light and start looking under oil filler caps. A few dozen cars later, you'll be able to tell who's had their oil changed and who hasn't. Four-speed automatics are your friend, esp. with the Japanese and with GM. Usually unbreakable. Chevy Impalas, Buick LeSabres, any kind of a GM old-persons car (Ja I know there may not be another kind), if it's clean and garaged, those often have conservative owners.
Dealer maintained, that sort of thing. You see 3.5 l V6 North of 300k miles sometimes.
I'm deep in GM country so (i) there are plenty of those around and (ii) they are sought after.
If you can find some in your neck of the woods and they're not appreciated, that's your gold.

The '07 and earlier Ford Taurus is not a bad choice. For a cheap car, get the 3.0 Vulcan over the 3.0 DOHC Duratec. There are LOTS of Tauruses out there, and many have been neglected and abused. It's that kind of a car, and they're getting old. I would not hesitate to buy a good example, but good luck finding one.

There's nothing wrong with the aforementioned Saturns or Cobalts, but choose carefully. Both represent good value, but along with Fiestas and Rios and the like, they were often maltreated by indifferent owners. I want a clean interior not because I'm too lazy to vacuum, but because it's usually a sign of proper maintenance.

NO CVTs. NO Chrysler 2.7 V6 -- the 3.5s are good, and the old 'LH' cars can be excellent deals.
NO 5spd automatic Accords and related Hondas.
NO early direct-injection engines -- though that's not likely to happen at the low end.

Trucks, SUVs, Crossovers are going to be $$$. Cars are where it's at for cheap transportation.
Korean cars can offer great value but I know almost nothing about them, sorry.
Ford Crown Vics/Mercury Marquis can be good, if you can deal with the fuel consumption.
Where I live, he Pontiac Vibe is known to be a Toyota clone and prices reflect it. If you find a cheap (automatic) one, go for it.

Find yourself a good independent mechanic. Any used car you buy will need to be inspected unless you're feeling really lucky.

Best of luck to you,
-Mathias

qbrozen

As I started reading the above, I thought "geesh, I can't believe I forgot to mention the Ford Panther cars." But then you got to it at the end. Old folks love Grand Marquis, and many have not seen many miles. Keep your eyes peeled for one of those.

Mr_Shiftright

If he doesn't know what the Panther platform is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Panther_platform

steine13

>> But then you got to it at the end.

This is what happens when I've got Andouille sausage in the pan and have to tend to it every three minutes.
You try to write coherently when you can't stick with it.

I'd like to know where our new friend resides.
If it's somewhere rust-free I'd look at some ~01 Altimas.
Old cars around here start rusting out their brake and fuel lines. That's where I draw the line -- way too dangerous -- so it cuts out a lot of old iron that would otherwise be viable.

kyfdx

Old Altimas... dirt cheap. Not a bad choice

qbrozen

kyfdx said:

Old Altimas... dirt cheap. Not a bad choice

They can be when the cat converter on the 2.5 disintegrates and spews metal back into the engine ('02 and up). The old '98-'01 with the 2.4 should be OK if you can actually find a clean one anymore.

qbrozen

The OP may never return, but I took on the challenge anyway. There are actually many decent choices out there. A number of Corollas and other Toyotas, among other things we've mention already.

https://newyork.craigslist.org/que/cto/d/2003-toyota-corolla-115k/6556332197.html
https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/d/2000-toyota-corolla-for-sale/6566257677.html
https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/d/2002-toyota-camry/6566150889.html
https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/d/1998-toyota-celica-gt-very/6566181286.html
https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/d/1999-lexus-es300-low-miles/6566180984.html
https://allentown.craigslist.org/cto/d/05-mercury-sable-116k-1650/6551246273.html
https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/d/2007-ford-escort-ses/6557002026.html
https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/d/2008-chevy-cobalt-sedan-blue/6566253490.html

fushigi

'01 and up Elantras or the Kia equivalent. Really HyunKia are mostly fine in the 2000s. Avoid the 2.7 & 3.5 V6s. Probably avoid the Sonata/Optima pre-2006. Otherwise they should be decent cars at reasonable prices.

stickguy

I forgot the other key point. focus on miles and mechanicals/condition (strong engine, deep tread, good brakes, etc). and overlook a tired body. Not all rusty, but dents, dings, scrapes and scratches can tank resale value, and not make 1 iota of difference to how reliable or cheap to own the car will be.

OP mentioned school too. If HS certainly, and some colleges, cars get trashed in the parking lots so might as well save money and get one that is pre-dinged up!

tjc78

I'd go for the Panthers (although 98- early 2002 do blow intakes), any of the GM 3.8 cars (non-supercharged), the Early 2000s Corollas and Camrys.

Good thing about the Panther is that even if they were beat on they still last. Most people driving them (even hard) don't do what the Police and Cabs did to them

On a side note, I'm still stunned that there are many cop car Vics still in service. We are coming on 8 years since the last one rolled off the line.

Mr_Shiftright

It's a matter of PCF -- Perps per cubic foot.

qbrozen

tjc78 said:

I'd go for the Panthers (although 98- early 2002 do blow intakes), any of the GM 3.8 cars (non-supercharged), the Early 2000s Corollas and Camrys.

Good thing about the Panther is that even if they were beat on they still last. Most people driving them (even hard) don't do what the Police and Cabs did to them

On a side note, I'm still stunned that there are many cop car Vics still in service. We are coming on 8 years since the last one rolled off the line.

Are you referring to the plastic intake manifold that leaks coolant? My FIL's 2004 MGM is doing that now, so maybe not limited to the years you mention. But it is under $150 and easy to get at, so really not a big deal, IMHO.

tjc78

Yes, it was worse in the 98-02 years but the revised one is supposed to be better and has a much lower failure rate.  

Ive seen pictures where it literally falls apart at the thermostat housing.  

Don’t get the Dorman brand intake.  All the Panther guys swear they suck and don’t seal up properly.  

biancar

I'm looking to buy a used 2016 A5 Premium Plus Cabriolet, Ibis White, Black roof, beige seats in a light grey interior. 10,500 miles. Has Technology and Comfort (with the neck warmer, yay!) packages. Technology includes Navigation and Audi's MMI communication packages. Walnut inlays along the sides of the doors. Dealer is asking $38,500. He just got it in and I'm ready to buy. This is a lease return, I think. Dealer doc fee in MD is $299.

This price is about $1,000 less than what KBB says is "market value." What do you think, fair price? Should I haggle or take it?

No question I want the Audi, assuming the test drive goes well (we have been in communication only by email at this point, as I've been out of town). They are hard to find as is, especially in the color and with all the packages I want. So - no haggle, a little haggle, or haggle hard?

qbrozen

That is quite high. Is it CPO? I think $36k-$36.5k for non-CPO and maybe $37.5k CPO.

biancar

Yes, CPO, and all the options. Usually you find two out out of three (Premium Plus and Technology) but rare to find one with the Comfort package as well. And very low miles.

pensfan83

@qbrozen helping an aunt sell off her Hyundai, private party most likely unless Car Sense blows us away with an offer.

2010 Hyundai Sonata GLS
33,000 miles
Silver over gray cloth
Only option is a power drivers seat

qbrozen

List for 7995 and take 7.

If carsense exceeds $5k, if they even want it at all, I'd be surprised.

pensfan83

Thanks as always, higher than I expected. We don't have Car Max here and I've never dealt with Car Sense either, just know they operate in a similar vein but I'm guessing they wouldn't want an 8 y/o car no matter how pristine it is.

There's no rush to sell it so she's content to wait until someone meets the asking price.

28firefighter

Q - here is one for nostalgia lane for you (I think maybe you had one of these?):

2004 Nissan 350Z Roadster
Red
Black leather interior
6spd Manual
73k Miles

Two owners, lots of recent maintenance: new clutch, new soft top, recent brakes etc. Not modified in any way except for an upgraded stereo.

What do you think this bad boy is worth?