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Real-World Trade-In Values

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Comments

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 14,913
    @qbrozen: Any idea what I might be able to snag this 2017 Clubman for?
    Thanks- it's a potential car for my wife.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXMember Posts: 3,253

    @qbrozen: Any idea what I might be able to snag this 2017 Clubman for?
    Thanks- it's a potential car for my wife.

    Why don't you just hit yourself in the head a few times with a baseball bat? Same end result, quicker and cheaper. (smile)
    2019 Chrysler Pacifica, 2013 Ford F150 XL
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,472
    edited July 2018
    That is shockingly overpriced. About $16,000 auction value. Is that not certified? I would say 19,000 without certification

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 8,551
    I think they are a one price dealer, too. 
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 14,913
    qbrozen said:

    That is shockingly overpriced. About $16,000 auction value. Is that not certified? I would say 19,000 without certification

    That's what I suspected; they've had it for a long time...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • bluemkn57carsbluemkn57cars Boston, MAMember Posts: 980
    @qbrozen

    Hoping you can help. Looking to trade in my 2013 Honda Accord sedan EX-L. It has close to 45k miles on it and it is in very good condition. It has all the standard features that came with that model (no navigation). It has a clean carfax with no accidents. 

    KBB listed a trade-in value between 12k and 13.6k. What should I expect for a real world number?

    Let me know if you need any additiinal info. I can PM you the VIN. 
    2018 Audi A4 P+
    2013 Honda Accord EX-L (Sold)
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,472
    @qbrozen

    Hoping you can help. Looking to trade in my 2013 Honda Accord sedan EX-L. It has close to 45k miles on it and it is in very good condition. It has all the standard features that came with that model (no navigation). It has a clean carfax with no accidents. 

    KBB listed a trade-in value between 12k and 13.6k. What should I expect for a real world number?

    Let me know if you need any additiinal info. I can PM you the VIN. 
    Which engine and transmission? What color combo? What area of the country?

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • bluemkn57carsbluemkn57cars Boston, MAMember Posts: 980
    qbrozen said:
    @qbrozen

    Hoping you can help. Looking to trade in my 2013 Honda Accord sedan EX-L. It has close to 45k miles on it and it is in very good condition. It has all the standard features that came with that model (no navigation). It has a clean carfax with no accidents. 

    KBB listed a trade-in value between 12k and 13.6k. What should I expect for a real world number?

    Let me know if you need any additiinal info. I can PM you the VIN. 
    Which engine and transmission? What color combo? What area of the country?
    2.4L 4-cylinder engine. Automatic transmission.
    Silver exterior/grey interior.
    I am in the Northeast. 
    2018 Audi A4 P+
    2013 Honda Accord EX-L (Sold)
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,472
    edited July 2018


    2.4L 4-cylinder engine. Automatic transmission.
    Silver exterior/grey interior.
    I am in the Northeast. 

    $12k-12.5k is about right. Might get more at a carmax or carvana type place.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • bluemkn57carsbluemkn57cars Boston, MAMember Posts: 980
    qbrozen said:
    2.4L 4-cylinder engine. Automatic transmission.
    Silver exterior/grey interior.
    I am in the Northeast. 
    $12k-12.5k is about right. Might get more at a carmax or carvana type place.
    Thank you. I appreciate the quick response.
    2018 Audi A4 P+
    2013 Honda Accord EX-L (Sold)
  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,829

    qbrozen said:

    That is shockingly overpriced. About $16,000 auction value. Is that not certified? I would say 19,000 without certification

    That's what I suspected; they've had it for a long time...
    Those Clubmans do seem like good values on the used market though (just not this particular one). There was a nice one a few months back that caught our eye - an S All4 model well equipped, listed at about $22k. So yeah, $25k for a base model All4 is high.

    We liked ours quite a bit - really thought it drove more like a BMW than previous iterations.

    2021 Polestar 2 - 2020 MINI JCW Hardtop - 2021 Volvo XC90

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 14,913
    @qbrozen:
    Round 2- 2017 Wrangler
    Thanks!

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    @qbrozen:

    Q, you got anything on a 2002 Ford Thunderbird, black on black, California, 106,000 miles, average condition.
  • tifightertifighter WAMember Posts: 2,877

    @qbrozen:

    Q, you got anything on a 2002 Ford Thunderbird, black on black, California, 106,000 miles, average condition.

    Getting some popcorn for this one...

    18 Tesla X Performance / 21 Tesla Y LR / 11 BMW Z4 6MT

  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaMember Posts: 15,086

    @qbrozen:
    Round 2- 2017 Wrangler
    Thanks!

    Roadburner; I think they put the wrong transmission in that thing. What a bummer! :smile:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,472

    @qbrozen:
    Round 2- 2017 Wrangler
    Thanks!

    Right about $24k-$24.5k, so figure $27k-$28k should get it done.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,472

    @qbrozen:

    Q, you got anything on a 2002 Ford Thunderbird, black on black, California, 106,000 miles, average condition.

    convertible, right? (i have a listing for a coupe for some reason)
    About $6500/$7500/$10k trade/auction/retail

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 194,157
    Aren’t they all convertibles?

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  • jpp75jpp75 DenverMember Posts: 1,473
    @qbrozen Do you have any data on a 2016 Touareg TDI Lux? 5k miles, brown and in CO. I'm not looking to trade (most likely) but am looking to refinance.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,472
    5k miles? Wild guess... $36k.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • jpp75jpp75 DenverMember Posts: 1,473
    qbrozen said:

    5k miles? Wild guess... $36k.

    Thanks @qbrozen, it's obviously one I'd probably sell privately to a diesel enthusiast when the time comes but this helps with figuring out the refinancing!
  • tifightertifighter WAMember Posts: 2,877
    jpp5862 said:

    @qbrozen Do you have any data on a 2016 Touareg TDI Lux? 5k miles, brown and in CO. I'm not looking to trade (most likely) but am looking to refinance.

    Being within a 50 mile radius of breld can be dangerous for your checking account. Tread carefully this weekend, @jpp5862

    18 Tesla X Performance / 21 Tesla Y LR / 11 BMW Z4 6MT

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 14,913
    qbrozen said:

    @qbrozen:
    Round 2- 2017 Wrangler
    Thanks!

    Right about $24k-$24.5k, so figure $27k-$28k should get it done.
    Thanks!

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • jpp75jpp75 DenverMember Posts: 1,473
    tifighter said:

    jpp5862 said:

    @qbrozen Do you have any data on a 2016 Touareg TDI Lux? 5k miles, brown and in CO. I'm not looking to trade (most likely) but am looking to refinance.

    Being within a 50 mile radius of breld can be dangerous for your checking account. Tread carefully this weekend, @jpp5862
    :smile: Very true. It's nice to have enablers friends so close by.
  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,829
    If you all think I'm an enabler, you should meet my wife. @jpp5862 and @michaell can vouch for that.

    Just wait 'til this Saturday when we're all going around together "browsing."

    2021 Polestar 2 - 2020 MINI JCW Hardtop - 2021 Volvo XC90

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    qbrozen said:

    @qbrozen:

    Q, you got anything on a 2002 Ford Thunderbird, black on black, California, 106,000 miles, average condition.

    convertible, right? (i have a listing for a coupe for some reason)
    About $6500/$7500/$10k trade/auction/retail
    That's about what I was thinking. This one has a so-so repaint so I'm more inclined to drop it off your $10K retail number.
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 189,571
    breld said:

    If you all think I'm an enabler, you should meet my wife. @jpp5862 and @michaell can vouch for that.

    Just wait 'til this Saturday when we're all going around together "browsing."

    We keep telling her to get her own account here at Edmunds.

    Every conversation we have turns into one about cars within 5 minutes. She's incorrigible; if she had her way I'd have bought 5 cars since I leased the Jetta.

    She's also a darn nice lady.

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    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAMember Posts: 7,846
    Can we introduce Mrs @breld to Mrs. 28FF? I would like my wife to become an enabler.
    2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited, 2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara 4xE, 2004 BMW 330i ZHP 6MT
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 12,552
    I really want out of my 3 year lease with the '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T Eco model. I should have done the 2-year lease. So as of labor day, it'll be 2 years old.

    It currently has 23,500 miles, is in good condition, and is in San Diego, CA. It is metallic white with a beige interior.

    The residual is 54% of MSRP, which if I'm remembering right puts it at $13,500.

    How big of a pill do I have to swallow to unload this contraption that gets way less than the EPA mileage promised?

    Blue pill, or red pill.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,829
    @andres3 - so...I'm sure you don't want to get ahead of yourself in case it's too difficult to get out of the Optima, but what are the candidates for replacement?

    2021 Polestar 2 - 2020 MINI JCW Hardtop - 2021 Volvo XC90

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 12,552
    breld said:

    @andres3 - so...I'm sure you don't want to get ahead of yourself in case it's too difficult to get out of the Optima, but what are the candidates for replacement?

    A very wide variety of cars right now.

    A CPO S6 or 3.0A6 would replace an Optima nicely. A CPO S4 would work too probably.

    A Golf R, though I'd prefer a new one to get 7-speed transmission, but not sure VW is ready to deal on a Golf R yet.

    That's the high end. On the low end, I doubt it, but maybe a top of the line Optima would do a lot better than mine. I don't think I like the Stinger partly due to visibility.

    I'm not sure I like the Accord, but would have to look. Same with a GTI. If I got a GTI; I'd probably long for the Golf R, but maybe not. I hate the color selection on the R, at least the GTI has some more options. A almost non-existant 2-Series with no moonroof might work.

    I need power, but I also want good gas mileage. I want quality, but I also want it to be cheaper. Those are opposing forces.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,472
    andres3 said:
    I really want out of my 3 year lease with the '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T Eco model. I should have done the 2-year lease. So as of labor day, it'll be 2 years old. It currently has 23,500 miles, is in good condition, and is in San Diego, CA. It is metallic white with a beige interior. The residual is 54% of MSRP, which if I'm remembering right puts it at $13,500. How big of a pill do I have to swallow to unload this contraption that gets way less than the EPA mileage promised? Blue pill, or red pill.
    Plug it into carvana and vroom and see what comes back. What is your monthly? What is current buyout?

    auction value is only $12.5k right now.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 12,552
    qbrozen said:


    andres3 said:

    I really want out of my 3 year lease with the '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T Eco model. I should have done the 2-year lease. So as of labor day, it'll be 2 years old.

    It currently has 23,500 miles, is in good condition, and is in San Diego, CA. It is metallic white with a beige interior.

    The residual is 54% of MSRP, which if I'm remembering right puts it at $13,500.

    How big of a pill do I have to swallow to unload this contraption that gets way less than the EPA mileage promised?

    Blue pill, or red pill.

    Plug it into carvana and vroom and see what comes back. What is your monthly? What is current buyout?

    auction value is only $12.5k right now.

    I'm going to round for easy math, but I assume my buyout would be:

    12x200 = $2,400
    Residual = 13,500
    Kia Disposition penalty if I don't buy or lease another Kia = $500

    Sounds like I"m 3,000 under water then.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 189,571
    andres3 said:

    qbrozen said:


    andres3 said:

    I really want out of my 3 year lease with the '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T Eco model. I should have done the 2-year lease. So as of labor day, it'll be 2 years old.

    It currently has 23,500 miles, is in good condition, and is in San Diego, CA. It is metallic white with a beige interior.

    The residual is 54% of MSRP, which if I'm remembering right puts it at $13,500.

    How big of a pill do I have to swallow to unload this contraption that gets way less than the EPA mileage promised?

    Blue pill, or red pill.

    Plug it into carvana and vroom and see what comes back. What is your monthly? What is current buyout?

    auction value is only $12.5k right now.
    I'm going to round for easy math, but I assume my buyout would be:

    12x200 = $2,400
    Residual = 13,500
    Kia Disposition penalty if I don't buy or lease another Kia = $500

    Sounds like I"m 3,000 under water then.

    Um, I hate to break it to you, but 2400+13500+500=16400

    So, almost $4K under

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  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 12,552
    Michaell said:

    andres3 said:

    qbrozen said:


    andres3 said:

    I really want out of my 3 year lease with the '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T Eco model. I should have done the 2-year lease. So as of labor day, it'll be 2 years old.

    It currently has 23,500 miles, is in good condition, and is in San Diego, CA. It is metallic white with a beige interior.

    The residual is 54% of MSRP, which if I'm remembering right puts it at $13,500.

    How big of a pill do I have to swallow to unload this contraption that gets way less than the EPA mileage promised?

    Blue pill, or red pill.

    Plug it into carvana and vroom and see what comes back. What is your monthly? What is current buyout?

    auction value is only $12.5k right now.
    I'm going to round for easy math, but I assume my buyout would be:

    12x200 = $2,400
    Residual = 13,500
    Kia Disposition penalty if I don't buy or lease another Kia = $500

    Sounds like I"m 3,000 under water then.
    Um, I hate to break it to you, but 2400+13500+500=16400

    So, almost $4K under

    Guess I was automatically optimistically assuming someone might pay over auction value on a 2-year old car trade-in with low miles.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 12,552
    So my brain has been churning..... just park the Kia, make the registration "non-operational" (cheaper) lower my insurance due to no mileage, and give it back a year from now.

    That way I get $13,500 for it basically, which is the best I can hope for now anyway.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,472
    andres3 said:
    So my brain has been churning..... just park the Kia, make the registration "non-operational" (cheaper) lower my insurance due to no mileage, and give it back a year from now. That way I get $13,500 for it basically, which is the best I can hope for now anyway.
    The leasing company requires you carry a certain level of insurance. What they can do about it or how they find out if you lowered it, I have no idea. 

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 194,157
    qbrozen said:


    andres3 said:

    So my brain has been churning..... just park the Kia, make the registration "non-operational" (cheaper) lower my insurance due to no mileage, and give it back a year from now.

    That way I get $13,500 for it basically, which is the best I can hope for now anyway.

    The leasing company requires you carry a certain level of insurance. What they can do about it or how they find out if you lowered it, I have no idea. 

    Since they are registered as the payee, in the event of total loss, I'll guess the insurance company will notify them.

    Then, they take out their own insurance policy, and bill you for $400/mo. (just guessing on this part).

    Seems like the worst idea, ever.

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  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyMember Posts: 12,339
    They will know.. I changed insurance companies once and about three days later had a letter wanting to know why I took the coverage off.  Told them the new company and all was fine.   I guess the insurance companies report to the leasing companies.  

    2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 42,512
    Just drive it. One more year won’t kill ya. Put the underwater into the bank to apply to the next car.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,829
    One other thought - naturally, you're looking at the current value of the Optima versus the lease obligation. But what you really owe is the remainder of the payments, which sounds like roughly 12 months x $200, or $2,400. Lease experts can chime in if I'm wrong, but can't you prepay the remainder of the payments and hand the keys over and turn it in?

    I'm not saying that necessarily makes sense, 'cause if you're making the payments, you may as well drive it. But if it's a matter of moving on to something you enjoy more, seems this may be cheaper than trading it since you're just paying it down to the stated residual instead of eating the difference between obligation and market value (which is lower than the residual).

    2021 Polestar 2 - 2020 MINI JCW Hardtop - 2021 Volvo XC90

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 194,157
    breld said:

    One other thought - naturally, you're looking at the current value of the Optima versus the lease obligation. But what you really owe is the remainder of the payments, which sounds like roughly 12 months x $200, or $2,400. Lease experts can chime in if I'm wrong, but can't you prepay the remainder of the payments and hand the keys over and turn it in?

    I'm not saying that necessarily makes sense, 'cause if you're making the payments, you may as well drive it. But if it's a matter of moving on to something you enjoy more, seems this may be cheaper than trading it since you're just paying it down to the stated residual instead of eating the difference between obligation and market value (which is lower than the residual).

    No.. if you turn in a lease early, you are responsible for the current wholesale market value, and the difference between that and the payoff. Your actual lease payments mean nothing.

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  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,829
    I have a question for myself.

    My stepdaughter's lease on the Jetta is nearing its end and so we'll be looking for a replacement. What are the values on her Jetta at this point?

    2016 VW Jetta - Sport trim
    Black exterior
    32k miles
    Automatic transmission
    Good condition

    2021 Polestar 2 - 2020 MINI JCW Hardtop - 2021 Volvo XC90

  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXMember Posts: 3,253
    kyfdx said:



    No.. if you turn in a lease early, you are responsible for the current wholesale market value, and the difference between that and the payoff. Your actual lease payments mean nothing.

    I was about to ask the same question, but I finished reading before posting the question. Shaking my head, unbelievable.

    That does leave the possibility of trying to get someone to take over the lease, yes? Which would save you the $2,400 in lease payments and the cost of one year's full coverage insurance ( +/- $1,000 ?)

    So guessing at $3,400 out of your pocket, you could offer up half of that ( $1,700) as an incentive for someone to take over the lease?

    2019 Chrysler Pacifica, 2013 Ford F150 XL
  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAMember Posts: 7,846
    breld said:

    I have a question for myself.

    My stepdaughter's lease on the Jetta is nearing its end and so we'll be looking for a replacement. What are the values on her Jetta at this point?

    2016 VW Jetta - Sport trim
    Black exterior
    32k miles
    Automatic transmission
    Good condition

    I'd guess 11-12k...
    2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited, 2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara 4xE, 2004 BMW 330i ZHP 6MT
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 194,157
    Depends on the bank... and, if they absolve you of financial responsibility. Some don't.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    kyfdx said:

    Depends on the bank... and, if they absolve you of financial responsibility. Some don't.

    Which means what---that you're actually sort of a co-signer for the person who took over your lease?
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,833
    kyfdx said:

    [I]f you turn in a lease early, you are responsible for the current wholesale market value, and the difference between that and the payoff. Your actual lease payments mean nothing.

    What is owed on a lease is spelled out in the contract: The payments, and he car. That's it.

    Is there an obligation to hold on to a car for a certain period of time? Why? Who would benefit?

    I have twice turned in a GM lease early; once by a couple months and once by half a year, both on 2-year leases. The remaining payments were made beforehand and my obligation was over.

    If they had started talking about 'market value' I would have been dumbfounded. I had fulfilled my obligation to make the payments and return the car with the specified miles in the specified condition. What would be the argument? It's now worth less because I didn't age it enough?

    Anything is possible in contract law, I guess, but that makes no sense.
  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAMember Posts: 7,846
    Correct. Some of the captives will allow a lease transfer but require you remain on the lease effectively as a co-signer. The most recent case we've heard about is an Infiniti lease transfer, the person who took over the lease died, and Infiniti is holding the original lessee responsible for payments, insurance, and condition of the vehicle.
    2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited, 2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara 4xE, 2004 BMW 330i ZHP 6MT
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 194,157
    steine13 said:

    kyfdx said:

    [I]f you turn in a lease early, you are responsible for the current wholesale market value, and the difference between that and the payoff. Your actual lease payments mean nothing.

    What is owed on a lease is spelled out in the contract: The payments, and he car. That's it.

    Is there an obligation to hold on to a car for a certain period of time? Why? Who would benefit?

    I have twice turned in a GM lease early; once by a couple months and once by half a year, both on 2-year leases. The remaining payments were made beforehand and my obligation was over.

    If they had started talking about 'market value' I would have been dumbfounded. I had fulfilled my obligation to make the payments and return the car with the specified miles in the specified condition. What would be the argument? It's now worth less because I didn't age it enough?

    Anything is possible in contract law, I guess, but that makes no sense.
    Because they can....

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