Real-World Trade-In Values

stickguy

sounds like a winner to me. Good luck with it.

Just make sure the take it back option is in writing!

qbrozen

Rust on the shifter? Now THAT's weird

explorerx4

@euler74,
Did you compare the brake rotors on the blue vs gray cars?
Just wondering if they looked similar.

euler74

@qbrozen on the metal plate that sits on top of the knob.

@explorerx4 the grey one didn't have any sort of rust on it and the brake pads are much wider than the blue one.

Also, I noticed that both cars had a slight rattle (from the passenger door side / extreme right corner of the dash) while driving at freeway speeds. Is that normal? I noticed it happen just behind the driver towards the door on the grey one. You need to pay attention to notice it, its not loud.

explorerx4

Euler74.
So undersized pads on the blue one.
You can search for Challenger door rattles to see if anything similar comes up.

euler74

@explorerx4 yup, found it on challengertalk.com. I'll ask the dealer to fix it before purchase.

steine13

So, finally: a stick shift car at my favorite dealer. Not quite what I had in mind but intriguing... Compared to a 2012 Accord lx with 130k for the same $$$, this seems pretty dear:

https://lansing.craigslist.org/ctd/d/2008-subaru-outback-xt/6764754842.html

Minor accident to the rear in '13, too...

Mr_Shiftright

If you're tempted, by all means get a compression test and a cooling system pressure test. At that high mileage, head gaskets can be an issue.

stickguy

I like that one. would be happy to bop around in it, but definitely want it checked carefully. Wonder how much a preventive maintenance attack is (new head gaskets, and refresh the cooling system?)

Mr_Shiftright

Probably $1500 or so. Engine should really come out to do this. This is an almost guaranteed lethal defect if it has not been previously addressed (and maybe it has?).

corvette

How does that place have 1,800 cars in inventory on their website? Looks like their lot might hold all of 30. 

kyfdx

steine13 said:

So, finally: a stick shift car at my favorite dealer. Not quite what I had in mind but intriguing... Compared to a 2012 Accord lx with 130k for the same $$$, this seems pretty dear:

https://lansing.craigslist.org/ctd/d/2008-subaru-outback-xt/6764754842.html

Minor accident to the rear in '13, too...

Turbo!! Nice find.

That would be snapped up in a second, around here.

qbrozen

$6k for a car with 160k miles? Yikes!

steine13

Ha! That's funny. You're looking at "Capitol Auto Sales."
My personal dealer to the stars is "Capitol CITY Auto Sales."

At times he puts on all Craigslist ads the disclaimer "Do not confuse us with Capitol Auto Sales... we have been in business since 1986."

In fairness, these other guys have a nasty and well-deserved reputation. I've had the misfortune of looking at some of their rats fine automobiles in the past when people brought them to me to inspect...

steine13

@qbrozen
>> $6k for a car with 160k miles? Yikes!

Yikes is right...
to quote Terry of blessed memory, that's "all the money and a bag of chips." Subaru country is, unfortunately, usually also rust country. We gots snow, we gots salt, and we gots rust.

The Subaru is expensive all right, but it might hit someone in the right spot, all leathered up and with snow upon us. Who knows... I still think his pricing is just as dependent on his cost than what he knows he can get.
So here's a counterexample to the old "what do you care what he has in it" -- I only care because dealer cares.

This one is especially high in comparison with his other merchandise.. that '11 Impala is super clean, and 113k for $4875 or whatever is a solid deal... easily meeting the 10c/mile or $1k/year criterion for cheap cars. And those were good numbers 15 years ago. I dont' want it but if I were carless, I'd be on it in a heartbeat.

28firefighter

I happen to like that Outback XT - do the headgaskets, cooling, and clutch, and assuming it isn't horribly rusted out it should make a very capable and fun winter driver.

Then again, I seem to be partial to quirky, high maintenance, old cars.

xwesx

The good news is that head gaskets are not a substantial issue with the semi-closed block design of the turbo engines. It's the naturally-aspirated EJ25 block that is the stinker for gasket issues.

steine13

>> The good news is that head gaskets are not a substantial issue with the semi-closed block design of the turbo engines.

I dimly remembered something like that... but I figured it was wishful thinking...

At this price, though, I'll pass in any case.

The Subaru/VW dealer that is the source of most of this goodness is two minutes from my house, so I had seen this one coming. It is very clean, in fairness.

Mr_Shiftright

steine13 said:

@qbrozen
>> $6k for a car with 160k miles? Yikes!

Yikes is right...
to quote Terry of blessed memory, that's "all the money and a bag of chips." Subaru country is, unfortunately, usually also rust country. We gots snow, we gots salt, and we gots rust.

The Subaru is expensive all right, but it might hit someone in the right spot, all leathered up and with snow upon us. Who knows... I still think his pricing is just as dependent on his cost than what he knows he can get.
So here's a counterexample to the old "what do you care what he has in it" -- I only care because dealer cares.

This one is especially high in comparison with his other merchandise.. that '11 Impala is super clean, and 113k for $4875 or whatever is a solid deal... easily meeting the 10c/mile or $1k/year criterion for cheap cars. And those were good numbers 15 years ago. I dont' want it but if I were carless, I'd be on it in a heartbeat.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I could probably find you a few manual transmission Outbacks with the head gaskets, clutch, etc already done for that kind of money. I see the manual transmission ones all the time, because nobody wants them anymore.

They would also be higher miles, but at least you don't have the dread of head gasket failure hanging over you.

I'm talking about 2005-2008-ish model years, with clean bodies and interiors but over 100K miles.

My friend owns a Subaru indy shop and he rehabs them all the time, to resell. There's no shortage of ailing high mileage Outbacks.

steine13

Thanks shifty, that's good to know...it's an awfully long way but CA is always fun and rust free is worth a lot ... I won't 'need' new wheels for at least six months; I'm looking now because it's the cheap season and nobody is buying. 
Much appreciated,
-mathias

explorerx4

Q,
My bother in law is looking a new car. 03 Cadi with Northstar blew head gasket again.
Looking at 2014 Fusion Titanium, asking is $11,500 and 66k miles.
Has 19 inch wheels and assuming AWD.
VIN: 3FA6P0K97ER125110

Malibu at same dealer, but I like it better for him.
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=cargurus&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=PRICE&zip=06108&distance=25&startYear=&endYear=&minPrice=0&maxPrice=12000&maxMileage=&makeId=1&modelChanged=undefined&filtersModified=true#listing=217924159

What do you think? TIA.

qbrozen

explorerx4 said:

Q,
My bother in law is looking a new car. 03 Cadi with Northstar blew head gasket again.
Looking at 2014 Fusion Titanium, asking is $11,500 and 66k miles.
Has 19 inch wheels and assuming AWD.
VIN: 3FA6P0K97ER125110

Malibu at same dealer, but I like it better for him.
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=cargurus&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=PRICE&zip=06108&distance=25&startYear=&endYear=&minPrice=0&maxPrice=12000&maxMileage=&makeId=1&modelChanged=undefined&filtersModified=true#listing=217924159

What do you think? TIA.

vin comes back as FWD on the fusion. $11.5k is a very good price. I would have suggested shooting for $12.5k as a fair price.

the 'bu is worth about $800 less than the fusion.

henryn

explorerx4 said:

Q,
My bother in law is looking a new car. 03 Cadi with Northstar blew head gasket again.

Again? As in, this has happened more than once to the same car? If I were going to be fooling around with an old Cadillac, and repairing the head gaskets on a Northstar, I wouldn't consider anything less than studs. The last time I was in the Cadillac forums, there was a guy in Dallas who would do the job for $2,500 flat. And I've never heard of anyone having repeat problems after going with the studs.

Doesn't matter now, I guess. I owned several of those old Cadillacs with the Northstar, always liked them.

explorerx4

@henryn,
He put in a used engine and it lasted for a couple years.

explorerx4

Q,
Thanks for the info. At least this place is in the ballpark.
I'll pass it on.

explorerx4

Q,
My brother in law test drove the Fusion and is pretty hooked on it.
They let him take it out by himself for a test drive, so he pulled over and facetimed me so I could show him how some things work.
At least he didn't buy it yet. He's going to look at it again tomorrow when it's light out.
Said they showed him the Carfax, and it's a 1 owner pretty local car.
He said the history looked good.
He wants a warranty, so there's still some homework to be done there.

bcd2

I just got an offer from Carmax for my 2016 Elantra GT, which is at the end of a three-year lease, and it was much lower than I expected. Wondering if anyone has a similar experience. I know they do algorithmic pricing based on inventory and market demand. Is this simply an undesirable vehicle?

Details: 2016 Elantra GT. 33,000 miles. residual is $14,230. Carmax offered $12,000. Car is loaded with Style Package and Tech Package. Includes: Navigation, leather seats, heated and ventilated/cooled seats, panoramic roof, bluetooth, smart keys, rear-view cameras, 17" alloy wheels, etc. Brand new tires. No accidents. Barely has a scratch on it. They found no mechanical or condition faults with the vehicle.

Looks to me like they would resell the car for at least $16,000 based on their sale listings. Any thoughts? Thanks

Michaell

bcd2 said:

I just got an offer from Carmax for my 2016 Elantra GT, which is at the end of a three-year lease, and it was much lower than I expected. Wondering if anyone has a similar experience. I know they do algorithmic pricing based on inventory and market demand. Is this simply an undesirable vehicle?

Details: 2016 Elantra GT. 33,000 miles. residual is $14,230. Carmax offered $12,000. Car is loaded with Style Package and Tech Package. Includes: Navigation, leather seats, heated and ventilated/cooled seats, panoramic roof, bluetooth, smart keys, rear-view cameras, 17" alloy wheels, etc. Brand new tires. No accidents. Barely has a scratch on it. They found no mechanical or condition faults with the vehicle.

Looks to me like they would resell the car for at least $16,000 based on their sale listings. Any thoughts? Thanks

It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it

Recognize that the residual value may not have anything to do with market value.

The experts will be along shortly. Where do you live?

bcd2

Thanks. I understand that. We live in Los Angeles.

steine13

There's been a bit of a car boom after the long drought of the recession.. so PLENTY of two, three, four-year-old cars around.. that makes a bread-and-butter car like yours just another commodity.
The cheap end of the market is still hurting, though it's not as bad as it was eight or nine years ago.
Probably best to return the Elantra and call it good..

qbrozen

bcd2 said:

I just got an offer from Carmax for my 2016 Elantra GT, which is at the end of a three-year lease, and it was much lower than I expected. Wondering if anyone has a similar experience. I know they do algorithmic pricing based on inventory and market demand. Is this simply an undesirable vehicle?

Details: 2016 Elantra GT. 33,000 miles. residual is $14,230. Carmax offered $12,000. Car is loaded with Style Package and Tech Package. Includes: Navigation, leather seats, heated and ventilated/cooled seats, panoramic roof, bluetooth, smart keys, rear-view cameras, 17" alloy wheels, etc. Brand new tires. No accidents. Barely has a scratch on it. They found no mechanical or condition faults with the vehicle.

Looks to me like they would resell the car for at least $16,000 based on their sale listings. Any thoughts? Thanks

That's a crazy high offer from carmax! Would be lucky to see $11k at auction for it.

corvette

How many payments left? Why not just make the payments and turn it in at the end of the lease?

tjc78

@bcd2

Now you know why leasing can be so great. Turn that puppy in, pay the dispo fee and make it someone else's problem!!

bcd2

Thanks all. There are no payments left on the GT. There's one week left on the lease and I will hand it in on 12/17. I've leased seven Hyundais since 2009 (for three family members) so I'm very familiar with the benefits. In fact, I also have a 2016 Elantra Limited with a lease-end a week after the GT ends. I was trying Carmax because I simply want to see if either vehicle has positive equity. I'll report back on Carmax's offer on the Elantra Limited if people are interested. FYI, we've had four Elantra sedans (3 of them Limited), a Genesis coupe, a Veloster, and an Elantra GT.

Michaell

bcd2 said:

Thanks all. There are no payments left on the GT. There's one week left on the lease and I will hand it in on 12/17. I've leased seven Hyundais since 2009 (for three family members) so I'm very familiar with the benefits. In fact, I also have a 2016 Elantra Limited with a lease-end a week after the GT ends. I was trying Carmax because I simply want to see if either vehicle has positive equity. I'll report back on Carmax's offer on the Elantra Limited if people are interested. FYI, we've had four Elantra sedans (3 of them Limited), a Genesis coupe, a Veloster, and an Elantra GT.

I'll be curious, for sure, but most leases are structured to NOT create positive equity at lease end.

Markbcar

Q,
Hi, I've been looking to sell my car.

2013 Honda Fit Base Model Black 40,000 Miles

It has hail damage. Lots of little dents on the roof and a couple on the hood. They are noticeable but not super significantly (imo). Tires are less than six months old and have very few miles on them. Brand new battery. Never had any mechanical issues at all.

I've run the car through KBB and Edmunds (including the information that it is hail damaged) and they tell me a trade in value of $5-6k.

However, when I go to the dealers they offer me 3,500 to 4,000. Should this be the actual trade in value? I questioned it because the KBB value was so different. Is 3,500-4,000 what I should really expect for the car in it's condition?

Thank you for any help!!

28firefighter

KBB and Edmunds don't buy cars. Looks like you're in NY, so @qbrozen should be able to provide feedback. Auto or Manual transmission?

That said, if it has hail damage, you aren't going to see much for it because it is an instant wholesale car for a dealer. I'm surprised they're offering you that much.

stickguy

Prime candidate to private sale.

Markbcar

Thanks for the replies!

It is an automatic

Markbcar

Any thought on the value if I can repair the hail damage?

Mr_Shiftright

Not a cheap repair. I think by the time you paid for repairs and upped your price, it'd be about break even on the result.

xwesx

Mr_Shiftright said:

Not a cheap repair. I think by the time you paid for repairs and upped your price, it'd be about break even on the result.

And, that's a big maybe. There's a good reason that hail damage will often "total" a vehicle, even if it is new.

qbrozen

Markbcar said:

Q, Hi, I've been looking to sell my car. 2013 Honda Fit Base Model Black 40,000 Miles It has hail damage. Lots of little dents on the roof and a couple on the hood. They are noticeable but not super significantly (imo). Tires are less than six months old and have very few miles on them. Brand new battery. Never had any mechanical issues at all. I've run the car through KBB and Edmunds (including the information that it is hail damaged) and they tell me a trade in value of $5-6k. However, when I go to the dealers they offer me 3,500 to 4,000. Should this be the actual trade in value? I questioned it because the KBB value was so different. Is 3,500-4,000 what I should really expect for the car in it's condition? Thank you for any help!!

$4k sounds about right. $5k-$5250 would be accurate with NO damage.

I bet someone would be happy to give you $6k for it to let their kid drive.

Markbcar

Thanks very much everyone!

stickguy

hey Q. checking a few used CPO options. what would be a good price for a 2016 TLX, 4 banger tech package? 32,000 miles, just about to hit 3 years in service (so 2 years/30K miles on BtoB warranty, they 2 more powertrain).

slate silver over gray. looks clean. carfax does have a "damage reported" note about a year ago (to front) but no accident. Maybe a bumper cover? the CPO inspection sheet noted nothing, but it is certainly a negotiating tool.

I could swap into something like this and for the same cost as a lease, pay it off in 3 years and at least own something. and at that point, the RDX could get flipped for a new one.

28firefighter

Your process is showing.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

hey Q. checking a few used CPO options. what would be a good price for a 2016 TLX, 4 banger tech package? 32,000 miles, just about to hit 3 years in service (so 2 years/30K miles on BtoB warranty, they 2 more powertrain).

slate silver over gray. looks clean. carfax does have a "damage reported" note about a year ago (to front) but no accident. Maybe a bumper cover? the CPO inspection sheet noted nothing, but it is certainly a negotiating tool.

I could swap into something like this and for the same cost as a lease, pay it off in 3 years and at least own something. and at that point, the RDX could get flipped for a new one.

About $22k would be pretty fair for CPO.

$22k on a 3-yr note for the same as a lease? Not a chance. Unless you are considering leasing a way more expensive car than a TLX and/or on bad terms.

henryn

Quick math: $22,000 with 10% down, finance $19,800 for 36 months at 4%, monthly note of $621.

As @qbrozen noted, that would lease a WAY more expensive car than a TLX.

Math doesn't lie.

stickguy

it wouldn't all be financed. the trade knocks off much of the tax and a little equity. But probably a 4 year loan to make the monthly about the same. so conceptually, after 3 years, instead of turning in a lease, owe roughly $5K on a moderately used car still under CPO warranty (with the loan, if not paid off early, ending at the same time as the warranty).

hey, just an option vs. leasing a new one. Probably works better on something that depreciates even harder though.

but at least with leasing you get to drive brand new.

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

it wouldn't all be financed. the trade knocks off much of the tax and a little equity. But probably a 4 year loan to make the monthly about the same. so conceptually, after 3 years, instead of turning in a lease, owe roughly $5K on a moderately used car still under CPO warranty (with the loan, if not paid off early, ending at the same time as the warranty).

hey, just an option vs. leasing a new one. Probably works better on something that depreciates even harder though.

but at least with leasing you get to drive brand new.

Lease