Real-World Trade-In Values

Mr_Shiftright

No, it's not an EL, it's a Limited. We'd still have to do a PPI but I have to say, the vehicle, even for the miles, is in spectacular condition. I couldn't find a mark on it.

That's interesting--so the EL, which is longer, is worth less? Why so?

corvette

Mr_Shiftright said:

So anyway, I found a 2012 Expedition Limited, 4X4, fully loaded with most options except sunroof and 20" wheels---otherwise pretty packed vehicle.

Sounds pretty good to me, too. The short wheelbase model would be about the same length as a Tahoe/Yukon, and I bet you'd have to pay more for an equivalent GM.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, I was quite surprised at the high prices clean used Suburbans are pulling! This Expedition is a *nice* truck I have to say.

In any event, I went back to the dealer and offered $18,000 all in, out the door, and we made a deal for my friends. It's an exceptionally clean, one-owner vehicle with all records, so it seems that the price is fair enough indeed.

Bit of a struggle, but I needed a "victory", as I've been striking out in my own personal car search.

Thanks everyone for your opinions!

Michaell

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yes, I was quite surprised at the high prices clean used Suburbans are pulling! This Expedition is a *nice* truck I have to say.

In any event, I went back to the dealer and offered $18,000 all in, out the door, and we made a deal for my friends. It's an exceptionally clean, one-owner vehicle with all records, so it seems that the price is fair enough indeed.

Bit of a struggle, but I needed a "victory", as I've been striking out in my own personal car search.

Thanks everyone for your opinions!

Sometimes shopping by proxy can be satisfying.

Being friends with @breld pays off, in that sense.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, but you can bring popcorn and watch. I have to go into the ring.

xwesx

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yes, I was quite surprised at the high prices clean used Suburbans are pulling! This Expedition is a *nice* truck I have to say.

In any event, I went back to the dealer and offered $18,000 all in, out the door, and we made a deal for my friends. It's an exceptionally clean, one-owner vehicle with all records, so it seems that the price is fair enough indeed.

Bit of a struggle, but I needed a "victory", as I've been striking out in my own personal car search.

Thanks everyone for your opinions!

Full records, and it is coming from a dealer! That amazes me, actually. Every time I have sold a car to a dealer, I always offer the records and they just scoff, saying that they would just throw them away. And, not once have I received such past records on a dealer-purchased vehicle. /sigh

qbrozen

My guess is the EL is deemed too big to handle by most people.

henryn

xwesx said:

Full records, and it is coming from a dealer! That amazes me, actually. Every time I have sold a car to a dealer, I always offer the records and they just scoff, saying that they would just throw them away. And, not once have I received such past records on a dealer-purchased vehicle. /sigh

I have had exactly that experience. In my experience, they don't even care about the original window sticker, something that I find very handy to have.

explorerx4

Carfax can show you when and where a vehicle was serviced.

henryn

explorerx4 said:

Carfax can show you when and where a vehicle was serviced.

That is a very strange statement. What are you basing that on? My experiences with carfax are far different. Most service facilities do not report their work in such a manner that Carfax can find and show that information.

And for dang sure they can't show that I changed the oil, or serviced the automatic transmission in my driveway.

I can't tell you how many Carfax reports I have looked at that show not one oil change in 50 or 100 thousand miles. And you can be pretty certain they did have an oil change, else they wouldn't still be on the road.

stickguy

it can, sometimes. and depends on the place as to what kind of detail you get, beyond some generic "10,000 mile service" note.

at least if it is a CPO, or sold at the same brand dealer, they can (usually) pull records. if they want to. The best (though expensive) case is when the selling dealer sold it new and did all the service.

explorerx4

@henryn,
Of course if the information in not submitted to Carfax, there wont be any records.
Mr_Shifty's comment referred service records and that's what I was basing my post on.
The dealers around here seem to be diligent about that.

Mr_Shiftright

I guess sometimes that the vehicle has to "speak for itself". In this case, the condition was so remarkable you just knew that the car had been cared for. Also, being a local car helps.

roadburner

henryn said:

xwesx said:

Full records, and it is coming from a dealer! That amazes me, actually. Every time I have sold a car to a dealer, I always offer the records and they just scoff, saying that they would just throw them away. And, not once have I received such past records on a dealer-purchased vehicle. /sigh

I have had exactly that experience. In my experience, they don't even care about the original window sticker, something that I find very handy to have.

I got a full set of records when I bought the M6; I was amazed at what the original owner visited the dealer about.

qbrozen

henryn said:

Carfax can show you when and where a vehicle was serviced.

That is a very strange statement. What are you basing that on? My experiences with carfax are far different. Most service facilities do not report their work in such a manner that Carfax can find and show that information. And for dang sure they can't show that I changed the oil, or serviced the automatic transmission in my driveway. I can't tell you how many Carfax reports I have looked at that show not one oil change in 50 or 100 thousand miles. And you can be pretty certain they did have an oil change, else they wouldn't still be on the road.

It is an accurate statement. He didn't say it ALWAYS shows it. I have seen several reports that show when, where, and what was done. Is it common? No. But it CAN and does happen.

Mr_Shiftright

I think if the car is dealer serviced, as the Expedition was, you get a lot more details.

henryn

It’s all in the way you read it, I suppose.

Carfax can show you service records. If and only if they exist in a system that Carfax has access to. I was reading the original statement differently, along the lines of

“If you want the service records, then you don’t need the seller to provide them, you can always get them from Carfax.” Which would be a very iffy statement.

This all started with the posting from @xwesx, wherein he stated:

xwesx said:

Full records, and it is coming from a dealer! That amazes me, actually. Every time I have sold a car to a dealer, I always offer the records and they just scoff, saying that they would just throw them away. And, not once have I received such past records on a dealer-purchased vehicle. /sigh

New car dealerships log all service performed with their head office in the USA, wherever that may be. Any dealer of the same brand call pull ALL records from the home office, for Ford and GM you just go to the parts counter with the VIN and ask nicely. Probably true for most other makes. But if the car was not serviced at the same brand dealership, any records from Carfax are likely to be … iffy. Not at all a substitute for paper records, receipts, kept by the original owner.

xwesx

Yes, I agree with that, Henry!

And, as you note, owner-performed service typically is only available within the owner's records. I imagine my 2010 Forester said something along the lines of: 9/11/09: Sold. 3/1/2017: Crashed. LOL

Drivingfool

I found out that mine shows all the work VW did at the dealership but also that it was in an accident and which side it happened on. Guess it gets that info from the body shop who performed the repairs on it, the front end place that did the four wheel alignment on it or the insurance company that took care of the repairs. I know the kid had bare bones, just the necessary insurance and my company took the reigns here. Yet, they did pay for my out of pocket cost for a weeks rental and paid back my insurance company all they asked for. I had to contact my insurance company to get my deductible back as they probably would've kept it. My company did step up as the kid passed on the bodily injury protection but my company did help me out somehow on that but I wouldn't swear to it. My adjuster got lazy at one point which necessitated me to call to have it fast tracked which cost me to rent a vehicle on my dime as the day I called to inquire how long Enterprise was going to pay for it, I was told by 6 that afternoon it was due back. Luckily I called at 11 or so though I had to leave work a couple hours early to return it. And I ended up without a rental to use for a day but it all worked out at the end. I just had to be the one to keep up with it and make the appropriate phone calls!

The Sandman/Driving Fool

Mr_Shiftright

Thanks all, for the feedback on the 2012 Expedition. I ran it through a PPI and it passed with flying colors. No defects of any kind were found.

euler74

Need help in negotiating price for private sale for 2015 Ford Mustang GT (base model w/ performance pack 1 and recaro seats (custom order from Ford). It has about 24k miles on it. single owner. The quoted price is $26500. But the car has been modified (seller claims to have only 2 mods - corsa exhaust and aftermarket amplifier&speakers. There was an aftermarket subwoofer which was removed). The exterior has normal wear (few surface scratches/scuffs) and interior is in great condition. Question 1 - How does aftermarket mods affect the price if I have to trade-in in the future, how difficult would it be to resell this car in say 3 years?. Question 2 - How much should I offer for this car considering the details provided?

Mr_Shiftright

Dealers don't like modified cars as trade-ins, so if that exhaust is really loud, they're going to use that to hammer on the trade-in price. As for the aftermarket stereo and speakers, that rather depends on where the speakers were cut in and on how well the installation was done.

The price seems normal retail at the moment. I don't see why you couldn't shave $2500 off that. There are a gazillion of these for sale, so no reason you have to lunge at one.

euler74

Thanks! I am particularly interested as I like the recaro seats (broader and more comfortable than the focus st recaros) also the interior is very clean. I test drove the car and didnt hear any drone noise from the exhaust (sounded close to stock with a slight rumble). There is a subwoofer unit with cables hanging in the spare tire area ( seller removed the subwoofer). How do I know if the speakers were installed correctly? I was thinking of offering 22k for the car - perhaps that's low balling?

qbrozen

euler74 said:

Need help in negotiating price for private sale for 2015 Ford Mustang GT (base model w/ performance pack 1 and recaro seats (custom order from Ford). It has about 24k miles on it. single owner. The quoted price is $26500. But the car has been modified (seller claims to have only 2 mods - corsa exhaust and aftermarket amplifier&speakers. There was an aftermarket subwoofer which was removed). The exterior has normal wear (few surface scratches/scuffs) and interior is in great condition. Question 1 - How does aftermarket mods affect the price if I have to trade-in in the future, how difficult would it be to resell this car in say 3 years?. Question 2 - How much should I offer for this car considering the details provided?

Shifty nailed it. $24k TOPS as is. 

nyccarguy

euler74 said:

Thanks! I am particularly interested as I like the recaro seats (broader and more comfortable than the focus st recaros) also the interior is very clean. I test drove the car and didnt hear any drone noise from the exhaust (sounded close to stock with a slight rumble). There is a subwoofer unit with cables hanging in the spare tire area ( seller removed the subwoofer). How do I know if the speakers were installed correctly? I was thinking of offering 22k for the car - perhaps that's low balling?

I’d be VERY careful with a modified Mustang.  I’m sure those 24K miles weren’t back and forth to church on Sunday.  I’d be inclined to pay for a PPI to make sure there are no other modifications.

Mr_Shiftright

You guys are gonna LOVE this finale to the Ford Expedition story.

As you know, I was helping a friend buy this very nice 2012 Expedition.

Well after transferring it from one dealer branch to another, and after negotiations, and after a test drive, and after a PPI, and after more negotiations, the dealer tells my friend that he has to drive up to sign all the papers--in person.

OK, fine. So my friend drives the 30 miles up, after cancelling a meeting. He gets there and the finance office says: "Oh, there's been a mistake. We didn't agree to $18,040 out the door. We meant $18, 400."

So my friend says "Really, you are trying to jack me at the last minute for $360 with this...this.....BS?"

So he just walked out on the deal.

He calls me.

I turn red with rage. I tell him "This is outrageous. I"m coming right down there".

He says: "No. If that's how they do business, I don't want to do business with them".


So, half-hour later, I'm still a hot stove here. All that time, effort, from all sides and they pull this? How STUPID!

Then, about one hour later, my friend calls me back: "Guess what. The owner of the story called me. Mr. Big himself. Apologized over and over. Told me to come in. The deal is firm at the quoted price. We are sorry, please forgive us".

So the deal is back on. He signed the papers and then (thanks to THEM) had to run to the airport to catch a flight to visit relatives for the holidays. The truck will be stored at the dealership until Monday pick-up.

WE HOPE?

roadburner

euler74 said:

Need help in negotiating price for private sale for 2015 Ford Mustang GT (base model w/ performance pack 1 and recaro seats (custom order from Ford). It has about 24k miles on it. single owner. The quoted price is $26500. But the car has been modified (seller claims to have only 2 mods - corsa exhaust and aftermarket amplifier&speakers. There was an aftermarket subwoofer which was removed). The exterior has normal wear (few surface scratches/scuffs) and interior is in great condition. Question 1 - How does aftermarket mods affect the price if I have to trade-in in the future, how difficult would it be to resell this car in say 3 years?. Question 2 - How much should I offer for this car considering the details provided?

Personally, if I don't know the owner and who modded it I walk away.
I was all set to buy a 2013 Boss 302 for a DD/track rat and after one look at the mods I walked.

roadburner

Mr_Shiftright said:

You guys are gonna LOVE this finale to the Ford Expedition story.

As you know, I was helping a friend buy this very nice 2012 Expedition.

Well after transferring it from one dealer branch to another, and after negotiations, and after a test drive, and after a PPI, and after more negotiations, the dealer tells my friend that he has to drive up to sign all the papers--in person.

OK, fine. So my friend drives the 30 miles up, after cancelling a meeting. He gets there and the finance office says: "Oh, there's been a mistake. We didn't agree to $18,040 out the door. We meant $18, 400."

So my friend says "Really, you are trying to jack me at the last minute for $360 with this...this.....BS?"

So he just walked out on the deal.

He calls me.

I turn red with rage. I tell him "This is outrageous. I"m coming right down there".

He says: "No. If that's how they do business, I don't want to do business with them".


So, half-hour later, I'm still a hot stove here. All that time, effort, from all sides and they pull this? How STUPID!

Then, about one hour later, my friend calls me back: "Guess what. The owner of the story called me. Mr. Big himself. Apologized over and over. Told me to come in. The deal is firm at the quoted price. We are sorry, please forgive us".

So the deal is back on. He signed the papers and then (thanks to THEM) had to run to the airport to catch a flight to visit relatives for the holidays. The truck will be stored at the dealership until Monday pick-up.

WE HOPE?

I have a policy of not rewarding a business that tries to shaft me. Once a place tries that they are off my list forever and I will post scathing reviews in every available forum.

corvette

roadburner said:

I have a policy of not rewarding a business that tries to shaft me. Once a place tries that they are off my list forever and I will post scathing reviews in every available forum.

That rules out most of my local franchised dealers, then...

euler74

Thanks for all the replies guys. I have another car in consideration : 2011 Audi A5 Coupe with 53k miles (manual trans). The owner claims that it has the prestige, s-line and blind spot packages. When selecting trims on kbb, I could select only prestige or s-line but not both at the same time. Can both prestige and s-line packages exist in the same car? Also, I was quoted $16k for it. Carfax shows the VIN as Quattro Prestige only and quotes a private sale prive of $14850. How much should I offer and is it worth buying this car?

boomchek

I just went to kbb and could select both. Price shows $12382-$15515.

Seems like Prestige is a sub trim level and S Line is a package added to the Prestige trim. Sometimes carfax might only show the main trims and not all the options on those trims?

qbrozen

euler74 said:

Thanks for all the replies guys. I have another car in consideration : 2011 Audi A5 Coupe with 53k miles (manual trans). The owner claims that it has the prestige, s-line and blind spot packages. When selecting trims on kbb, I could select only prestige or s-line but not both at the same time. Can both prestige and s-line packages exist in the same car? Also, I was quoted $16k for it. Carfax shows the VIN as Quattro Prestige only and quotes a private sale prive of $14850. How much should I offer and is it worth buying this car?

I agree with the above that S Line is merely an added package, not a trim level. Irrelevant to its true value, really.

$16k would be OK retail. $14.5k-$15k is very accurate for private party. 

Think long and hard about owning an Audi outside of warranty.

kyfdx

boomchek said:

I just went to kbb and could select both. Price shows $12382-$15515.

Seems like Prestige is a sub trim level and S Line is a package added to the Prestige trim. Sometimes carfax might only show the main trims and not all the options on those trims?

It's possible that every Prestige trim car is also an S-Line. Or, even all A5s. S-Line basically means nothing, any more.

The 2013 A3 TDI was that way. Every A3 TDI was an S-Line

steine13

>> I have a policy of not rewarding a business that tries to shaft me.

Sure, I agree with the approach.. but if I've invested -- and a friend has invested -- considerable energy into a deal, I'd be inclined to buy the dang car for the agreed-upon price and never darken their door again afterwards. I'm not their mommy.

Of course, I have a friend who won't buy gas from Shell, because they turned him down for a credit card. In 1977...

Mr_Shiftright

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

You guys are gonna LOVE this finale to the Ford Expedition story.

As you know, I was helping a friend buy this very nice 2012 Expedition.

Well after transferring it from one dealer branch to another, and after negotiations, and after a test drive, and after a PPI, and after more negotiations, the dealer tells my friend that he has to drive up to sign all the papers--in person.

OK, fine. So my friend drives the 30 miles up, after cancelling a meeting. He gets there and the finance office says: "Oh, there's been a mistake. We didn't agree to $18,040 out the door. We meant $18, 400."

So my friend says "Really, you are trying to jack me at the last minute for $360 with this...this.....BS?"

So he just walked out on the deal.

He calls me.

I turn red with rage. I tell him "This is outrageous. I"m coming right down there".

He says: "No. If that's how they do business, I don't want to do business with them".


So, half-hour later, I'm still a hot stove here. All that time, effort, from all sides and they pull this? How STUPID!

Then, about one hour later, my friend calls me back: "Guess what. The owner of the story called me. Mr. Big himself. Apologized over and over. Told me to come in. The deal is firm at the quoted price. We are sorry, please forgive us".

So the deal is back on. He signed the papers and then (thanks to THEM) had to run to the airport to catch a flight to visit relatives for the holidays. The truck will be stored at the dealership until Monday pick-up.

WE HOPE?

I have a policy of not rewarding a business that tries to shaft me. Once a place tries that they are off my list forever and I will post scathing reviews in every available forum.

I would normally agree 100% with you, but I do feel that every man is capable of redemption--it's not likely, it doesn't happen often, but it is possible. I got a sense that that the contrition was genuine. Besides, the dealer knows my various connections in the community and in the auto biz. (soft talk, big stick?).

kyfdx

If a dealer has a car that I really want, and will be hard to find elsewhere, I'll stick around, if I think I'm going to get my price in the end. I'm pretty good at sizing that up, quickly, even if they try to screw with me.

That doesn't mean I'll ever come back..

euler75

qbrozen said:

euler74 said:

Thanks for all the replies guys. I have another car in consideration....

$16k would be OK retail. $14.5k-$15k is very accurate for private party. 

Think long and hard about owning an Audi outside of warranty.

This is what I was thinking as well - $14.8k. I’ll throw in the offer after I review the car and see what the seller says.

also, I think 53k miles is not too bad considering I won’t put too many miles on the car and I plan to own it for a couple of years. 

Mr_Shiftright

steine13 said:

>> I have a policy of not rewarding a business that tries to shaft me.

Sure, I agree with the approach.. but if I've invested -- and a friend has invested -- considerable energy into a deal, I'd be inclined to buy the dang car for the agreed-upon price and never darken their door again afterwards. I'm not their mommy.

Of course, I have a friend who won't buy gas from Shell, because they turned him down for a credit card. In 1977...

Yes, there is a point where holding a grudge becomes extreme. Me? I'll give most people a second chance, but never a third.

The dealer's personnel were just badly trained. My friend is a highly successful, well-dressed person who treated THEM with utmost respect. He probably has enough money to BUY their dealership.

It's like when you go into a restaurant. The food is good, the service is lousy. That's due to bad training. There's no excuse for it, and the lack of training can end up being just as catastrophic as IF the food were the problem.

I had a friend who made a very successful business as, of all things for gawd's sake--a Mitsubishi dealership! How was this possible? Great service, highly trained staff, lots of diversification (big used car operation), spotless facilities, and respect for the customer.

pensfan83

kyfdx said:

If a dealer has a car that I really want, and will be hard to find elsewhere, I'll stick around, if I think I'm going to get my price in the end. I'm pretty good at sizing that up, quickly, even if they try to screw with me.

That doesn't mean I'll ever come back.

Agree 100% but I would definitely give consideration to grading them accordingly on the survey depending on how bad they screwed around with the deal.

roadburner

@qbrozen: Any idea what this truck sold for? Thanks!
2015 X1 xDrive 28i

qbrozen

Interestingly, $21,700.
San Antonio auction on 10/22.
So why the heck are they selling it so cheap already? hmmmm

28firefighter

The old style X1 was not particularly compelling in it's class from a space or utility perspective. Heck, wholesale on our new style 2016 X1 nicely optioned is around that price...that actually seems expensive for a 2015 old-style with the 4 cylinder engine.

roadburner

qbrozen said:

Interestingly, $21,700.
San Antonio auction on 10/22.
So why the heck are they selling it so cheap already? hmmmm

We drove it; it is literally in like-new condition. My wife loves it and I do prefer the rear biased AWD. I think it’s relatively inexpensive because people in my neck of the woods prefer the current generation X1. Me, I’m happy it has decent headlamps and the M Sport suspension and sport seats. I think it’s a done deal.

Drivingfool

Need some help folks. My VW Golf needs a headlamp. Where's the best place to go?? Not going back to Hertz until Monday so have Friday to get this taken care of.

The Sandman/Driving Fool

xwesx

I think the low beam, if that's what is out, is H7. The process is rather involved to gain the necessary clearance on this car, but any shop should be able to do it quickly. Maybe a nearby quick lube place, or a local garage?

corvette

roadburner said:

I think it’s a done deal.

Watch out for their exorbitant doc fee.

corvette

Drivingfool said:

Need some help folks. My VW Golf needs a headlamp.

If you have halogens, I'm a big fan of the Sylvania SilverStar zXe lamps, they are DOT-compliant and provide a whiter light than standard halogen bulbs. I'd replace both lamps so they match. Life expectancy is supposedly lower. I have them on the Tahoe and also installed them on the Mustang (the G37 has factory xenons, so no need to upgrade).

roadburner

corvette said:

roadburner said:

I think it’s a done deal.

Watch out for their exorbitant doc fee.

If the OTD number is reasonable I don’t care how they break it out.

28firefighter

@roadburner I happen to like that gen of X1 because it was still based on the E90 platform. My point was, where BMW tried to market it as a small competitive crossover, the 3er wagon had more interior and cargo space for the same $$, with only slightly less ground clearance. 

henryn

corvette said:

Drivingfool said:

Need some help folks. My VW Golf needs a headlamp.

If you have halogens, I'm a big fan of the Sylvania SilverStar zXe lamps, they are DOT-compliant and provide a whiter light than standard halogen bulbs. I'd replace both lamps so they match. Life expectancy is supposedly lower. I have them on the Tahoe and also installed them on the Mustang (the G37 has factory xenons, so no need to upgrade).

I tried a pair of those, a few years back. "Life expectancy is supposedly lower" is a rather drastic understatement, they lasted less then a year. They did provide better lighting, you could tell the difference, and maybe they last longer now.