Real-World Trade-In Values

qbrozen

tifighter said:

tifighter said:

Okay, guesses on auction for one 15.5 (yes it says that on the Monroney) Volvo XC70 T6, Platinum trim, all options. Cute blue polestar square. 33K miles. Seattle area. Bronze Metallic (brown), black guts. No runs, hits, errors, one owner.

Auction? Mid $26k range

Volvo update - $28K trade in offer. With the tax credit in WA for trade, not amazing, not awful.

$28k? I’d say thats amazing

28firefighter

Take it and run. Sounds great. 

Whats the new whip?

tifighter

Too early to say; the deal is still in the making. But it will be a good story, no matter what...

28firefighter

tifighter said:

Too early to say; the deal is still in the making. But it will be a good story, no matter what...

Always keeping your hand a secret. 

tmdore

2016 Dodge Challenger SXT Plus just under 15,000 miles. rwd, Leather, Moon Roof, Silver

qbrozen

tmdore said:

2016 Dodge Challenger SXT Plus just under 15,000 miles. rwd, Leather, Moon Roof, Silver

what part of the country? any current or past damage? how are the tires, brakes, and other consumables?

tmdore

Tires are good, recently replaced, also have the Tire and Rim wheel package that came with the car. Some minor dings. interior good. South Carolina

qbrozen

huh. Better than I would have thought. About $21.5k.

ronsteve

stickguy said:

buying used isn't always that cut and dried. Depends on which car, how used, deal on the new one, etc. Honda's were always the best example. Sometimes a 1-2 year old one CPO was as much as a new one when you took into account discounts on the new ones.

but cars keep depreciating, and normally if you buy used you don't keep it as long, so more frequent swaps, and you might still lose more overall. Sometimes it can be better to buy new and keep it longer. Probably not on luxury german iron of course!

True, there are a lot of pitfalls to "letting someone else take the depreciation hit" the first of which is that you take a depreciation hit if you buy retail, be it new or used, be it MSRP or deeply discounted. With new car finance rates, not to mention any incentives or rebates that tend to be floating around, going just a year old CPO usually costs you just as much as new and you probably need to go 2 or even 3 years old to realize any appreciable savings. And there also remains the question of the inevitable unscheduled repairs on an aging car after you pay it off, and how that (and continued depreciation) stacks up to a payment.

dillydill

I am looking to help a friend get a pre owned Pathfinder.

Central Massachusetts
2018 Nissan Pathfinder S 4x4
23,967 miles
VIN: 5N1DR2MM8JC652327
Black exterior/Black interior

It's been a while since I posted so apologies if I left out critical information.
I also haven't checked it out yet, but got this info off of the local dealer website
Thoughts?

jmonroe1

Well, Mrs. j's 2012 Legacy 3.6R Limited was sold to Carvana this morning. They said they would be at my house at 10 AM and they were a few minutes early. Carvana valued her car at $12,751 and that is exactly what they gave me. The guy had a pre-printed check for that amount so I asked him if the car was not in the condition I said it was, would they just tear up that pre-printed check and hand write me a new amount? The guy said, "NO, they would start the ball rolling again and would have to get a mechanic and / or body guy to come out and re-value the trade. That would take at least 3 or 4 days but that is how they operate. I was just curious.

Here is a little about how they operated with me:

The guy pulls up with a flat bed and comes to the house. I told him to go down to the garage and I'd pull the car out. He takes one look at her car and said, "man, this is a nice car". He has his ipad with him and he takes about 10 pics. He then starts it up, didn't even open the hood, and said, "sounds as good as it looks. Can I take it around the block"? I went with him and I had to coax him to step on it to get it above 40 MPH. He drove it just over a mile to meet Carvana's requirement and we are now back in my driveway. He said all we have to do now is the paperwork. I said OK but, "what are you giving me for my car"? He had this surprised look on his face and said, "just what we said in our correspondence ($12,751)" . We went into the house and did the paper work. He then drove the car onto the flat bed, tooted good bye, and the car was gone. FWIW, I think Mrs. j had a tear in her eye but I told her she would like the burgundy over beige one even more. EASY PEASY.

BTW, he said the car will be going to their New Jersey location for detailing then it will be up for sale in about 2 months. That seemed long to me but he said they are swamped with business right now. Maybe @stickguy will go give it a look see. Son #1 thinks they will list it for at least highish 17K. Does that sound right to you @qbrozen ?

I then called the used car dealer about the 2018 Legacy 3.6R Limited (burgundy over beige with 7,128 miles on it) he had for $26,922 to see if it was still available and it was. Went there and test drove it and did some paper work. I have to go to the bank tomorrow to get some money to pay for it and then it will be officially ours. Another EASY PEASY deal.

I still can't believe that car was worth $12,751. Way better than the $10,500 the used car dealer wanted to steal it for. Maybe I over paid for the 2018 but it seems perfect and I really like the way it drove. Seems peppier than the 2012 but that is probably me trying to justify the purchase.

If anybody wants any more details let me know.

jmonroe

stickguy

good job JM. just like I told you. Keep an eye on the Carvana sight. They will put it up before it is even available. All their cars have an available by date, but I think you can put a claim on one early. I would bet it is up for $16,995.

if they had happened to have the new car you wanted, they would have brought that out on the flatbed, done that paperwork too, and left it for you.

28firefighter

Pictures or it didn't happen, @jmonroe1.

explorerx4

@jmonroe,
I don't recommend wearing a gray striped shirt in the pictures.

Sandman6472

Wonder if the have a Carvana location down here in South Florida. For the right price, I might decide I could do a change. One just never knows!

pensfan83

They just put one of the vending machines rate alongside a very busy stretch of Highway here in southwest PA. No cars in yet though.

xwesx

Sandman6472 said:

Wonder if the have a Carvana location down here in South Florida. For the right price, I might decide I could do a change. One just never knows!

IIRC, they won't accept vehicles with blemished Carfax.

But, I'm sure they would still be happy to drop off a car for you!

qbrozen

dillydill said:

I am looking to help a friend get a pre owned Pathfinder. Central Massachusetts 2018 Nissan Pathfinder S 4x4 23,967 miles VIN: 5N1DR2MM8JC652327 Black exterior/Black interior It's been a while since I posted so apologies if I left out critical information. I also haven't checked it out yet, but got this info off of the local dealer website Thoughts?

Autocheck is clean. They paid $20,800 for it on 3/14. I would say $24k should work. What are they asking?

Oh, and it comes up as an SV, not an S

qbrozen

Congrats, @jmonroe, you got crazy money for it. I think they’ll have it up for $15,995. 

nyccarguy

@jmonroe1 - mazel-tov on selling mrs J's Legacy. Thanks for walking us through the process. Glad it was an easy one for you.

dillydill

Thanks Q! They have it listed for $23,900

qbrozen

dillydill said:

Thanks Q! They have it listed for $23,900

$23k would be a great deal. They did overpay a little, but the condition was listed as a 4.5, which is very high compared to the other similar listings.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

dillydill said:

I am looking to help a friend get a pre owned Pathfinder.

Central Massachusetts
2018 Nissan Pathfinder S 4x4
23,967 miles
VIN: 5N1DR2MM8JC652327
Black exterior/Black interior

It's been a while since I posted so apologies if I left out critical information.
I also haven't checked it out yet, but got this info off of the local dealer website
Thoughts?

Autocheck is clean. They paid $20,800 for it on 3/14. I would say $24k should work. What are they asking?

Oh, and it comes up as an SV, not an S

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Also comes up as a former rental vehicle, if that matters.

jmonroe1

pensfan83 said:

They just put one of the vending machines rate alongside a very busy stretch of Highway here in southwest PA. No cars in yet though.

I'm pretty sure you are talking about the Carvana Bridgeville PA location just off I79. If so that is the place that came to pick up Mrs. j's 2012 Subie yesterday morning and I thought I heard the guy say they have some cars in their "vending machine" now. He said they just opened for business about 2 weeks ago in that location. Up until then they had an office only in North Versailles PA which is a lot closer to me.

jmonroe

explorerx4

I saw a Nissan Rogue in the parking lot at work today with a Carvana plate on it.

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

Personally I wouldn't pay a dime more for CPO that isn't factory-backed. As for factory-backed CPO, yes you get more, but they are charging you for it, just the same. In a way, CPO is a forced up-sell, isn't it?

Last of all, any CPO is still a used car. Who can say that the odds of it breaking down are any less than the non-CPO car parked next to it?

Well, it's a little more than "just" an extended warranty. It's certifies that the car is certifiable. LOL!

What's that mean?

I'll tell you.

At least at honest companies and dealerships. For example, my '14 Audi S4 was in great shape and under 50K miles when traded-in, but they didn't slap "Certified" on it, because a Lexus had collided with it. Despite the repairs, the fact that they didn't certify it made me value CPO more.

stickguy

well, if you want to just put your faith entirely in the seller, sure. But, you can do the same thing by running a carfax (heck, any reputable dealer should just give you one) and do a PPI. that is probably going to be more detailed than whatever the dealer does, which is probably a carfax and courser y look over!

pensfan83

jmonroe1 said:

pensfan83 said:

They just put one of the vending machines rate alongside a very busy stretch of Highway here in southwest PA. No cars in yet though.

I'm pretty sure you are talking about the Carvana Bridgeville PA location just off I79. If so that is the place that came to pick up Mrs. j's 2012 Subie yesterday morning and I thought I heard the guy say they have some cars in their "vending machine" now. He said they just opened for business about 2 weeks ago in that location. Up until then they had an office only in North Versailles PA which is a lot closer to me.

jmonroe

That's the one, saw it about a month ago when we went to Top Golf.

spice568nm

Q,
I am trying to price another bmw retired service loaner, its a 2018 328d xdrive sport Wagon, automatic, gray/beige with 4300 miles. Socal Area. MSRP around 52k. Not really loaded, just convenice package, nav and blindspot detection. The bmw dealer is advertising it for 46k, what do you think I should aim for? TIA.

qbrozen

Service loaners aren’t simply used cars. A strong goal is 20% off sticker BEFORE incentives. 18% would be the absolute minimum. Anything more than 20% is gravy.

Being a diesel wagon, though, its pretty rare. Could sit there forever or could go quick. All depends who sees it

Mr_Shiftright

Q--does the market actually treat service loaners differently than used cars? Or is this just a way for buyers to regard them differently? If the market does treat them differently, why is that?

jmonroe1

It's all over now. Mrs. j is the proud owner of a 2018 Legacy 3.6R Limited (burgundy over beigh) that had just under 7,150 miles on it when we headed home. I'm a little late with this since we bought it yesterday afternoon.

When we showed up (Mrs. j, Son #1 and I) the used car dealer had the paper work done so we were only there for about 20 minutes. That was the quickest deal I ever had. If I could speed read faster it wouldn't have taken even that long.

As I mentioned before, the no haggle price for the car was $26,922 and it was in great condition and shined nicely. Almost begrudgingly Mrs. j said, "yeah, that car looks good. My old Silver car was nice but nothing like this car". I've been telling her for years that she needed this color. Now she knows that I was right. I worked her perfectly. Kinda proud of myself too.

I think the most interesting part was when we were leaving. The salesman said, "I'm happy you came back to buy this car even though we couldn't come to terms about your old car. If it was up to me, I would have offered you 11 grand for it but the owner only wanted to give you $10,500 and he dug in with that offer. I would have loved to have that car on our lot after we replaced the passenger mirror but that is water under the bridge now. Damn, I wish we had that car but we couldn't give you $12, 571 like Carvana did. No way could we have gone that high but 11 was doable. I think you would have take 11 for it if we offered it, right"? I told him, "I would have taken 11 for it but you didn't budge off your $10,500 offer so I had to walk". My Son then said, "if you don't mind can you tell me how much you would have had it on your lot for"? Without any hesitation he said, "$16,550 and we'd hold to that price for a month before we lowered it but I doubt we'd have had it for even a week".

Even guys in the biz for years can screw up a good thing when they have it in their hands and get stubborn. I'm glad they did now because I really made out on the sale of that car to Carvana.

THE END.

jmonroe

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

Q--does the market actually treat service loaners differently than used cars? Or is this just a way for buyers to regard them differently? If the market does treat them differently, why is that?

The open market? No. BMW dealers? Yes. They do, after all, “own it” for more than a comparable used one would go for. Advantage to the buyer is new car incentives on top of a bigger discount. 

qbrozen

jmonroe1 said:

It's all over now. Mrs. j is the proud owner of a 2018 Legacy 3.6R Limited (burgundy over beigh) that had just under 7,150 miles on it when we headed home. I'm a little late with this since we bought it yesterday afternoon. When we showed up (Mrs. j, Son #1 and I) the used car dealer had the paper work done so we were only there for about 20 minutes. That was the quickest deal I ever had. If I could speed read faster it wouldn't have taken even that long. As I mentioned before, the no haggle price for the car was $26,922 and it was in great condition and shined nicely. Almost begrudgingly Mrs. j said, "yeah, that car looks good. My old Silver car was nice but nothing like this car". I've been telling her for years that she needed this color. Now she knows that I was right. I worked her perfectly. Kinda proud of myself too. I think the most interesting part was when we were leaving. The salesman said, "I'm happy you came back to buy this car even though we couldn't come to terms about your old car. If it was up to me, I would have offered you 11 grand for it but the owner only wanted to give you $10,500 and he dug in with that offer. I would have loved to have that car on our lot after we replaced the passenger mirror but that is water under the bridge now. Damn, I wish we had that car but we couldn't give you $12, 571 like Carvana did. No way could we have gone that high but 11 was doable. I think you would have take 11 for it if we offered it, right"? I told him, "I would have taken 11 for it but you didn't budge off your $10,500 offer so I had to walk". My Son then said, "if you don't mind can you tell me how much you would have had it on your lot for"? Without any hesitation he said, "$16,550 and we'd hold to that price for a month before we lowered it but I doubt we'd have had it for even a week". Even guys in the biz for years can screw up a good thing when they have it in their hands and get stubborn. I'm glad they did now because I really made out on the sale of that car to Carvana. THE END. jmonroe

I think, or hope, he was talking out of his butt, because a $6k markup is insane. And if they really thought that was remotely possible, then they threw away $5500 by digging in at $10.5k. I seriously doubt it. A place like that would be out of biz in short order.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Q--does the market actually treat service loaners differently than used cars? Or is this just a way for buyers to regard them differently? If the market does treat them differently, why is that?

The open market? No. BMW dealers? Yes. They do, after all, “own it” for more than a comparable used one would go for. Advantage to the buyer is new car incentives on top of a bigger discount. 

You mean the dealer has more $$$ invested in it than a used one, right?

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Q--does the market actually treat service loaners differently than used cars? Or is this just a way for buyers to regard them differently? If the market does treat them differently, why is that?

The open market? No. BMW dealers? Yes. They do, after all, “own it” for more than a comparable used one would go for. Advantage to the buyer is new car incentives on top of a bigger discount. 

You mean the dealer has more $$$ invested in it than a used one, right?

As far as I know, yes. But I think, with the right discount AND the manufacturer incentives, it gets mighty close for the buyer, at least. For example, my 330, back in December, was worth something like $36k at auction. Dealer owned it for probably $39k-$40k. I paid them $39,666 before the manufacturer rebates took it down to about $35k for me. ... rough numbers off the top of my head

jmonroe1

qbrozen said:

jmonroe1 said:

It's all over now. Mrs. j is the proud owner of a 2018 Legacy 3.6R Limited (burgundy over beigh) that had just under 7,150 miles on it when we headed home. I'm a little late with this since we bought it yesterday afternoon.

When we showed up (Mrs. j, Son #1 and I) the used car dealer had the paper work done so we were only there for about 20 minutes. That was the quickest deal I ever had. If I could speed read faster it wouldn't have taken even that long.

As I mentioned before, the no haggle price for the car was $26,922 and it was in great condition and shined nicely. Almost begrudgingly Mrs. j said, "yeah, that car looks good. My old Silver car was nice but nothing like this car". I've been telling her for years that she needed this color. Now she knows that I was right. I worked her perfectly. Kinda proud of myself too.

I think the most interesting part was when we were leaving. The salesman said, "I'm happy you came back to buy this car even though we couldn't come to terms about your old car. If it was up to me, I would have offered you 11 grand for it but the owner only wanted to give you $10,500 and he dug in with that offer. I would have loved to have that car on our lot after we replaced the passenger mirror but that is water under the bridge now. Damn, I wish we had that car but we couldn't give you $12, 571 like Carvana did. No way could we have gone that high but 11 was doable. I think you would have take 11 for it if we offered it, right"? I told him, "I would have taken 11 for it but you didn't budge off your $10,500 offer so I had to walk". My Son then said, "if you don't mind can you tell me how much you would have had it on your lot for"? Without any hesitation he said, "$16,550 and we'd hold to that price for a month before we lowered it but I doubt we'd have had it for even a week".

Even guys in the biz for years can screw up a good thing when they have it in their hands and get stubborn. I'm glad they did now because I really made out on the sale of that car to Carvana.

THE END.

jmonroe

I think, or hope, he was talking out of his butt, because a $6k markup is insane. And if they really thought that was remotely possible, then they threw away $5500 by digging in at $10.5k. I seriously doubt it. A place like that would be out of biz in short order.

I agree with you but I can only tell you what he told me. I guess I looked like a real dope and he was trying to steal my car but I wasn't dopey enough to fall for $10,500. Like I said I would have fallen for $11,000 but he didn't offer that. Carvana offered me a good bit more so I took it, why not? Carvana is probably going to list it for at least $16K and they will make a decent profit even giving me $12, 751.

jmonroe

Michaell

jmonroe1 said:

qbrozen said:

jmonroe1 said:

It's all over now. Mrs. j is the proud owner of a 2018 Legacy 3.6R Limited (burgundy over beigh) that had just under 7,150 miles on it when we headed home. I'm a little late with this since we bought it yesterday afternoon.

When we showed up (Mrs. j, Son #1 and I) the used car dealer had the paper work done so we were only there for about 20 minutes. That was the quickest deal I ever had. If I could speed read faster it wouldn't have taken even that long.

As I mentioned before, the no haggle price for the car was $26,922 and it was in great condition and shined nicely. Almost begrudgingly Mrs. j said, "yeah, that car looks good. My old Silver car was nice but nothing like this car". I've been telling her for years that she needed this color. Now she knows that I was right. I worked her perfectly. Kinda proud of myself too.

I think the most interesting part was when we were leaving. The salesman said, "I'm happy you came back to buy this car even though we couldn't come to terms about your old car. If it was up to me, I would have offered you 11 grand for it but the owner only wanted to give you $10,500 and he dug in with that offer. I would have loved to have that car on our lot after we replaced the passenger mirror but that is water under the bridge now. Damn, I wish we had that car but we couldn't give you $12, 571 like Carvana did. No way could we have gone that high but 11 was doable. I think you would have take 11 for it if we offered it, right"? I told him, "I would have taken 11 for it but you didn't budge off your $10,500 offer so I had to walk". My Son then said, "if you don't mind can you tell me how much you would have had it on your lot for"? Without any hesitation he said, "$16,550 and we'd hold to that price for a month before we lowered it but I doubt we'd have had it for even a week".

Even guys in the biz for years can screw up a good thing when they have it in their hands and get stubborn. I'm glad they did now because I really made out on the sale of that car to Carvana.

THE END.

jmonroe

I think, or hope, he was talking out of his butt, because a $6k markup is insane. And if they really thought that was remotely possible, then they threw away $5500 by digging in at $10.5k. I seriously doubt it. A place like that would be out of biz in short order.

I agree with you but I can only tell you what he told me. I guess I looked like a real dope and he was trying to steal my car but I wasn't dopey enough to fall for $10,500. Like I said I would have fallen for $11,000 but he didn't offer that. Carvana offered me a good bit more so I took it, why not? Carvana is probably going to list it for at least $16K and they will make a decent profit even giving me $12, 751.

jmonroe

Four years ago, we traded in our Mazda CX-7 for the Outback. Before showing up at the dealer to complete the transaction, i stopped at CarMax and got a buy bid on the Mazda. When the Subaru dealer offered $10,500 trade value, I pulled out the quote from CarMax and slid it across the table.

After "consulting" with his manager, the dealer matched the bid and I got an extra $2000 for the Mazda. Plus $160 in additional tax savings.

qbrozen

I’ll be curious to see the subie listing and if they point out the previous repairwork.

kyfdx

BMW service loaners (especially those under 5000 miles) have all of the incentives of the new car program. They make very good candidates for leasing. If leasing, for all intents and purposes, they are a new car, not a used vehicle, and the market is different.

You can get a pretty good deal on a current model loaner, with just 15% off MSRP, assuming it has under 5000 miles.

28firefighter

kyfdx said:

BMW service loaners (especially those under 5000 miles) have all of the incentives of the new car program. They make very good candidates for leasing. If leasing, for all intents and purposes, they are a new car, not a used vehicle, and the market is different. You can get a pretty good deal on a current model loaner, with just 15% off MSRP, assuming it has under 5000 miles.

Pretty good all the way to unbelievable. 

Mr_Shiftright

Q, and others: Would you say that a dealer who sells at 20% over auction is about the normal rate, or is that fairly "fat" for the dealer? I'm working on an arbitration and trying to get the right numbers on a settlement.

This is, BTW, a large motorhome so not a quick-sale type of vehicle.

corvette

I'm guessing that the margins for motor homes (or boats) are way different than cars.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah I wonder about that. But depreciation is huge. Seems to me if you took in a motorhome at $200K trade and flipped it for $240K, that would be fat city for any RV dealer?

stickguy

Aren’t cars usually $3k-$5k? With more basic stuff on the low end. So effectively around 10%.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, 10-15% is my understanding.

qbrozen

yes, cars are more of a flat-rate kind of thing. $2k on a cheap car up to like $5k for higher-end stuff, and maybe $10k on REALLY high end stuff.

I have NO idea how motorhomes work.

Mr_Shiftright

I suspect motorhomes would work like a Bentley or some such---huge depreciation, big bucks even used, hard to sell out of warranty. But it's also a bit of a new field for me.

qbrozen

I know enough that they are pretty cheap used when they have the gas engine. The diesels are worth MUCH more. In the case of these motorhomes, it isn't just the engine. I've looked under both and the chassis, axle, and suspension are all very heavy duty, while the gas components look downright fragile.

A used 27-28' 4-yr-old gas version goes for about the same as a similar 10-yr-old diesel, from what I've seen. Something like $50k, IIRC.

xwesx

My father was looking to sell is Dutchstar diesel a few years ago. I think his is an '07 or some such. He was somewhat horrified at the depreciation on it (IIRC, this was a $300K rig new). He had it appraised, put it for sale at that level, and people tried to lowball the snot out of him on it. Eventually, he decided that he would rather keep it than give it away.

He still uses it periodically, but it is no longer his year-round home.

EDIT: Wow; I just looked up pricing on a new Dutchstar, and the website says, "starting at $372K." No thanks!