Real-World Trade-In Values

nyccarguy

TVee said:

stickguy said:

lease an MDX. those are leasing way cheaper.

which is the first question to ask actually. Are you getting a car, or a deal? Some people truly only care about the financial aspects and not what they are driving.

and for the most part, getting out of a lease early is going to cost more than riding it out. Bailing early, you eat the part that is under water. Wait it out, and it becomes the lender's problem.

yeah, dealer trips can be annoying, but let them fix the issues while you use a loaner car, and ride it out if it is only 1 more year. Then, you will be shopping "clean". The Q7 really is leasing poorly these days (for everyone, not just you) so the odds of the deal being worse a year from now, is low. And of course, you can always shop other brands too, without the expensive complication of wanting to trade in a current lease.

Thank you. Every time I feel like I have a handle on this, I become more lost. It’s not just about a deal, I want something I like. I don’t like the MDX, at all. I’m going to see if I can Volvo to buy it back. It’s not just going to the dealer, it’s safety. My cars electrical went out while driving twice in one day, the second time the car actually stalled. Fortunately, I was the only one in it; I got this because I wanted a safe, nice car for my two little people. I have the worst luck with vehicles. 

I understand you don't LIKE the MDX, but things like this won't happen with an MDX. We have a 2017 Pilot. Is it sleek? No. Is it sexy? No. Is it manly? No. Does it have space for our family of 5? Yes. Have we had to do anything to it besides change the oil, rotate the tires, change the differential fluid, & put gas in it since we picked it up 15 months (& 23K miles) ago? No.

Have you considered an MB GLE? Do you require a 3rd row?

Mr_Shiftright

Michaell said:

jmonroe1 said:

xwesx said:

That's exactly right! Just leave it at our nephew's place and tell her it is taking longer than anticipated. Go through the Carvana work, schedule the pickup from his place, and bring the other car home in the meantime.

Man, you guys know how to play hardball alright. Anything else you want to tell me? If that scheme went south I'm pretty sure I'm going to need a personal safety back-up plan. A double layer of body armour wouldn't hurt either.

jmonroe

Is you a man, or is you a mouse?

Praise the Lord and pass the Parmigiano Reggiano!

TVee

Thank you both for the input, I greatly appreciate it. I haven’t checked out the Lexus, but will. I get what you’re saying about the MDX, but I’ve read they’re having a lot of electrical issues as well. I’d like to find something that drives well, is comfortable and I like the aesthetic of it. That’s why I like the Audi Q7. I thought I was calculating the lease price right by taking the 55% of the MSRP for the residual and deducting that from the negotiated price and adding in the .00173 MF over the 36 months to get my payment. I think at this point I’m going to start training for a marathon again and carry my kids with me. 

andres3

TVee said:

Thank you both for the input, I greatly appreciate it. I haven’t checked out the Lexus, but will. I get what you’re saying about the MDX, but I’ve read they’re having a lot of electrical issues as well. I’d like to find something that drives well, is comfortable and I like the aesthetic of it. That’s why I like the Audi Q7. I thought I was calculating the lease price right by taking the 55% of the MSRP for the residual and deducting that from the negotiated price and adding in the .00173 MF over the 36 months to get my payment. I think at this point I’m going to start training for a marathon again and carry my kids with me. 

Ever thought of buying instead of leasing? I think buying Audi's is the way to go.

TVee

andres3 said:

TVee said:

Thank you both for the input, I greatly appreciate it. I haven’t checked out the Lexus, but will. I get what you’re saying about the MDX, but I’ve read they’re having a lot of electrical issues as well. I’d like to find something that drives well, is comfortable and I like the aesthetic of it. That’s why I like the Audi Q7. I thought I was calculating the lease price right by taking the 55% of the MSRP for the residual and deducting that from the negotiated price and adding in the .00173 MF over the 36 months to get my payment. I think at this point I’m going to start training for a marathon again and carry my kids with me. 

Ever thought of buying instead of leasing? I think buying Audi's is the way to go.

Honestly, I have serious commitment issues with cars. I have had the WORST luck. Before the Volvo, I had a Kia Sedona that had a ton of issues and Kia did not want to fix them. Before that I bought a Jeep Cherokee that had the transmission worked on six times in the first six months, then they wanted to replace it and I had to force Chrysler to buy it back. Why do you recommend buying? I would think purchasing used would be the best option since they all lose value so rapidly.

Michaell

TVee said:

andres3 said:

TVee said:

Thank you both for the input, I greatly appreciate it. I haven’t checked out the Lexus, but will. I get what you’re saying about the MDX, but I’ve read they’re having a lot of electrical issues as well. I’d like to find something that drives well, is comfortable and I like the aesthetic of it. That’s why I like the Audi Q7. I thought I was calculating the lease price right by taking the 55% of the MSRP for the residual and deducting that from the negotiated price and adding in the .00173 MF over the 36 months to get my payment. I think at this point I’m going to start training for a marathon again and carry my kids with me. 

Ever thought of buying instead of leasing? I think buying Audi's is the way to go.

Honestly, I have serious commitment issues with cars. I have had the WORST luck. Before the Volvo, I had a Kia Sedona that had a ton of issues and Kia did not want to fix them. Before that I bought a Jeep Cherokee that had the transmission worked on six times in the first six months, then they wanted to replace it and I had to force Chrysler to buy it back. Why do you recommend buying? I would think purchasing used would be the best option since they all lose value so rapidly.

You need to join us, here:

https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/4011/general/x/chronic-car-buyers-anonymous

steine13

>> I would think purchasing used would be the best option since they all lose value so rapidly.

That's such a pervasive myth, mostly because it's true.

The thing that makes it a myth is the part where used is somehow supposed to be much better.... but it really isn't... when you drive out front, round the block, and trade it in at the back of the store, there goes a third of your money..new OR used... that's how they pay for the store...

So if you have commitment issues, leasing is actually great... but lease for 24 months, and stick it out. And before you commit, come back here and ask a grown-up. Cuz $800/month lease payments on a Volvo is unnecessary roughness.

nyccarguy

steine13 said:

>> I would think purchasing used would be the best option since they all lose value so rapidly. That's such a pervasive myth, mostly because it's true. The thing that makes it a myth is the part where used is somehow supposed to be much better.... but it really isn't... when you drive out front, round the block, and trade it in at the back of the store, there goes a third of your money..new OR used... that's how they pay for the store... So if you have commitment issues, leasing is actually great... but lease for 24 months, and stick it out. And before you commit, come back here and ask a grown-up. Cuz $800/month lease payments on a Volvo is unnecessary roughness.

I agree with you 100%.  2 years ago today I picked up a CPO 2015 Infiniti Q40 AWD with 7,468 miles on the odometer (the car had been in service for 2 1/2 years at that point).  While I purchased the car for a fantastic price compared to its original sticker, I put money down and took out a loan (0.99% for 36 months).  I’m making payments on the car and it still is depreciating.

A few of our Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous members have embraced the 24 month lease.  I think leasing is the way to go.  Depreciation is your single biggest ownership cost.  If a financial institution is willing to let you finance a fixed amount of depreciation, then go for it!

stickguy

buying used isn't always that cut and dried. Depends on which car, how used, deal on the new one, etc. Honda's were always the best example. Sometimes a 1-2 year old one CPO was as much as a new one when you took into account discounts on the new ones.

but cars keep depreciating, and normally if you buy used you don't keep it as long, so more frequent swaps, and you might still lose more overall. Sometimes it can be better to buy new and keep it longer. Probably not on luxury german iron of course!

xwesx

steine13 said:

Cuz $800/month lease payments on a Volvo is unnecessary roughness.

OR an Audi, for that matter!

qbrozen

steine13 said:

>>

The thing that makes it a myth is the part where used is somehow supposed to be much better.... but it really isn't... when you drive out front, round the block, and trade it in at the back of the store, there goes a third of your money..new OR used... that's how they pay for the store...

Well, it is only a third if its like a $9k car. Only 10% if its a $30k car, or 50% on a $5k car. Also depends, of course, on the deal.

steine13

>> Only 10% if its a $30k car,

Maybe if it's YOU buying, or any of the regulars here.

And even then I'm envisioning a CPO Audi A6 for $30 with some years and miles on it.... good luck getting $27 for that anywhere.

qbrozen

Don’t pay $30k if it aint worth 27 trade. ;b
but CPO does often cost a bit more. 

Mr_Shiftright

Personally I wouldn't pay a dime more for CPO that isn't factory-backed. As for factory-backed CPO, yes you get more, but they are charging you for it, just the same. In a way, CPO is a forced up-sell, isn't it?

Last of all, any CPO is still a used car. Who can say that the odds of it breaking down are any less than the non-CPO car parked next to it?

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

Personally I wouldn't pay a dime more for CPO that isn't factory-backed. As for factory-backed CPO, yes you get more, but they are charging you for it, just the same. In a way, CPO is a forced up-sell, isn't it?

Last of all, any CPO is still a used car. Who can say that the odds of it breaking down are any less than the non-CPO car parked next to it?

Odds are not improved, but at least its covered.

stickguy

To me if you are buying from a quality dealer, a CPO is just an extended warranty. You can always shop that separately to see if it is worth CPO cost or not.

Mr_Shiftright

Well the theory is that the dealer's CPO cars are the "pick of the litter", but I suspect that at least some of the time the "inspection" is cursory at best and not really any better than any of their front line used cars would get. Again, in theory, the CPO cars undergo a higher degree of rehab but even that can be viewed 2 ways---they "put more into" a CPO car, but if it was so great, why did they need to?

I dunno--I'm really on the fence about CPOs.

sda

wo

nyccarguy said:

steine13 said:

>> I would think purchasing used would be the best option since they all lose value so rapidly.

That's such a pervasive myth, mostly because it's true.

The thing that makes it a myth is the part where used is somehow supposed to be much better.... but it really isn't... when you drive out front, round the block, and trade it in at the back of the store, there goes a third of your money..new OR used... that's how they pay for the store...

So if you have commitment issues, leasing is actually great... but lease for 24 months, and stick it out. And before you commit, come back here and ask a grown-up. Cuz $800/month lease payments on a Volvo is unnecessary roughness.

I agree with you 100%.  2 years ago today I picked up a CPO 2015 Infiniti Q40 AWD with 7,468 miles on the odometer (the car had been in service for 2 1/2 years at that point).  While I purchased the car for a fantastic price compared to its original sticker, I put money down and took out a loan (0.99% for 36 months).  I’m making payments on the car and it still is depreciating.

A few of our Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous members have embraced the 24 month lease.  I think leasing is the way to go.  Depreciation is your single biggest ownership cost.  If a financial institution is willing to let you finance a fixed amount of depreciation, then go for it!

Wow, 2yrs already!

nyccarguy

sda said:

wo

steine13 said:

>> I would think purchasing used would be the best option since they all lose value so rapidly. That's such a pervasive myth, mostly because it's true. The thing that makes it a myth is the part where used is somehow supposed to be much better.... but it really isn't... when you drive out front, round the block, and trade it in at the back of the store, there goes a third of your money..new OR used... that's how they pay for the store... So if you have commitment issues, leasing is actually great... but lease for 24 months, and stick it out. And before you commit, come back here and ask a grown-up. Cuz $800/month lease payments on a Volvo is unnecessary roughness.

I agree with you 100%.  2 years ago today I picked up a CPO 2015 Infiniti Q40 AWD with 7,468 miles on the odometer (the car had been in service for 2 1/2 years at that point).  While I purchased the car for a fantastic price compared to its original sticker, I put money down and took out a loan (0.99% for 36 months).  I’m making payments on the car and it still is depreciating.

A few of our Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous members have embraced the 24 month lease.  I think leasing is the way to go.  Depreciation is your single biggest ownership cost.  If a financial institution is willing to let you finance a fixed amount of depreciation, then go for it!

Wow, 2yrs already!

Yup!  2 years already!  I’m proud of myself!

kyfdx

CPO is a warranty. That’s the only extra value it has. Any other positive attribute is just ephemeral.

jmonroe1

Son #1 talked me into getting a Carvana quote. Well, he did the leg work and I just sat back. I couldn't believe the price offered was $12,751 for Mrs. j's 2012 Legacy 3.6R Limited. Now all they have to do is come close to that offer and I'm ahead tax wise whether I buy used or new.

As I mentioned earlier, I got a trade offer of $10,500 on Tuesday with a busted passenger side mirror and I thought that was too low so I walked. FWIW, my nephew put the mirror on tonight. It was ready yesterday but I couldn't get over there yesterday. So now her car is in perfect condition. Assuming the used car place gives me about $400 more (he figured he'd have to pay that much to have it replaced. But I only paid $214 so good for me) because the mirror is now on the car. If I can get about $11,700, for the trade at the used car dealer, I break even tax wise. Which seems like it shouldn't be too hard to do given Caravna offered $12,751. Doing the same type of math for a 2019 (same car but new), I have to get about $12,100 for the trade to break even tax wise. Again this shouldn't be too hard to do given the $12,571 offered.

FWIW, Son #1 thinks I'm crazy for not getting the used 2018 Legacy 3.6R Limited with 7,126 miles on it for $26,922 since what I saw seemed perfect (did not test drive it because it was raining) and especially since the color is what I wanted; burgundy over beige. In fact he said, "go buy the used car tomorrow. You know Carvana is going to get you ahead tax wise". When I asked him if he'd guarantee that and pay me any difference if he was wrong, he did some stuttering. That I'm not going to do unless you guys want to back me if I lose. I doubt they are going to give me what they appraised it for without seeing it but it almost has to be way better than the $10,500 offered by the used car dealer:

Shown below is the email I received from Carvana:

Hello jmonroe

Thank you for scheduling an appointment! Below is the confirmation of your appointment and a few details on what to expect:

Date and time: 10:00 AM on 4/3/2019
Location: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Vehicle: 2012 Subaru Legacy
VIN: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Mileage on appraisal: 36082

** Please note if the odometer is 1,000+ over the above original appraisal, we will need to re-appraise the vehicle.

Appraisal: $12,751.00

Please make sure you have the following documents handy at your appointment.
- The Vehicle Title
- Your driver's license
- All sets of keys
- The vehicle
- All vehicle owners as mentioned on the vehicle title to sign over documents

** Please make sure that your plates have been removed so you can notify the DMV that you have sold your vehicle.

*** Carvana is not responsible for any personal items left in the vehicle, please be sure to double check the vehicle to remove all of your personal items.

One of our Customer Advocates will arrive in a one car hauler to perform a final inspection on the vehicle, walk you through all necessary contracts and hand you a business check of $12,751.00.

We look forward to meeting you at 10:00 AM on 4/3/2019.

Best Wishes,
Your Carvana Team

jmonroe

stickguy

yup. that's how it works. Will start it, check the miles, do a walk around and take a bunch of pictures. If all is as expected, you sign a few papers, hand over the keys, and get a check.

28firefighter

@jmonroe I would strongly consider going new. You should be able to get 13-14%+ off MSRP on the outgoing legacy and outbacks. They need to move out the 2019s before the 20s land. 

jmonroe1

28firefighter said:

@jmonroe I would strongly consider going new. You should be able to get 13-14%+ off MSRP on the outgoing legacy and outbacks. They need to move out the 2019s before the 20s land. 

If I was getting 13 to 14 % off a 2019 I agree with you. However, as of a conversation I had with the sales lady today (I've had several over the last week) the selling price is only 8.18% off MSRP at an out of town dealer in PA about 120 miles from the Burgh. Their discount beats the almost 7% for the dealers around me for colors I don't want. I'm sure if I wait longer the price will get better but the color I want may not be there anymore. And the burgundy over beige is the only color that will get me to trade.

jmonroe

28firefighter

Fair enough. 

jmonroe1

stickguy said:

yup. that's how it works. Will start it, check the miles, do a walk around and take a bunch of pictures. If all is as expected, you sign a few papers, hand over the keys, and get a check.

You didn't say they would test drive it. Did you miss that point? Although the used car place didn't test drive it either. All they did was look at it and tell me they wouldn't insult me by telling me the car wasn't nice because the guy said it was "VERY NICE" but it turns out it was only $10,500 VERY NICE.

jmonroe

stickguy

they have the option. They may not bother. Didn't drive mine (and I delivered it to the location instead of having it picked up). He will have to drive it over to put it on the truck!

qbrozen

Carvana guy took ours around the block.

I don’t remember the questions exactly, but did your son disclose the previous accident when he submitted it?

nyccarguy

Very exciting @jmonroe1. I hope it all goes well!

stickguy

Well, I’m sure that’s required for a Rover.

jmonroe1

qbrozen said:

Carvana guy took ours around the block.

I don’t remember the questions exactly, but did your son disclose the previous accident when he submitted it?

No he didn't because @Mr_Shiftright had already run a Carfax for me and it came up clean.

jmonroe

stickguy

I think they ask in the disclosure but I don’t recall exactly, since I had nothing to disclose. So will be interesting to find out if the driver catches it

jmonroe1

stickguy said:

I think they ask in the disclosure but I don’t recall exactly, since I had nothing to disclose. So will be interesting to find out if the driver catches it

That is a possibility but the used car dealer I took it to on Tuesday didn't say anything about it. In fact, they said the car was "VERY NICE".

jmonroe

qbrozen

I seriously doubt the driver would. I doubt the question is "is the carfax clean?" but rather "has there been any paintwork" or something to that effect. If nobody catches it, then so be it. But if someone does ... well, it may prove interesting. I suppose you could always plead ignorance and hope it can never be traced back to your ownership timeframe.

breld

Hi Q -

Could you give me an idea of trade for the following:

2012 Acura MDX AWD
Tech and DVD package
Maroon over tan leather
112k miles
Good condition - no accidents, but some normal wear and tear

It's my ex's car that we will be giving our son when he turns 16 in a month. So the idea is that I'll pay her half of the value. I have KBB and NADA, but want to make sure I'm being fair on what she'd otherwise get on trade.

Thanks!

qbrozen

about $11k-$11250 as a trade.

nyccarguy

breld said:

Hi Q -

Could you give me an idea of trade for the following:

2012 Acura MDX AWD
Tech and DVD package
Maroon over tan leather
112k miles
Good condition - no accidents, but some normal wear and tear

It's my ex's car that we will be giving our son when he turns 16 in a month. So the idea is that I'll pay her half of the value. I have KBB and NADA, but want to make sure I'm being fair on what she'd otherwise get on trade.

Thanks!

Couple of things here:

2012 MDX w/ 112K miles (so now we know WHY she's your ex)

Didn't YOU buy the MDX to begin with?

Settle this without getting the lawyers involved, otherwise you'll be buying 1/2 of this MDX and a NEW MDX for the lawyer's kid.

28firefighter

This doesn't sound like something that is creating friction for @breld, he just wants to have a fair assessment for all involved...

breld

LOL @nyccarguy. Yes, she certainly didn't share the same level of enthusiasm for switching up cars as I did.

We've actually been divorced for 10 years now - crazy. So this MDX was all hers. When we split up, her income was higher than mine, and probably still is - that made things much easier.

Her MDX will be a great car for our son to get around and haul all his baseball stuff. And much cheaper than what I probably would have picked out for him!

jmonroe1

breld said:

Hi Q -

Could you give me an idea of trade for the following:

2012 Acura MDX AWD
Tech and DVD package
Maroon over tan leather
112k miles
Good condition - no accidents, but some normal wear and tear

It's my ex's car that we will be giving our son when he turns 16 in a month. So the idea is that I'll pay her half of the value. I have KBB and NADA, but want to make sure I'm being fair on what she'd otherwise get on trade.

Thanks!

With all the cars I have heard you've had over the years, I would think you'd know the best way to describe it to get a value. You should have said, burgundy over beige not maroon over tan. Maybe you can get Mr. q to revise his estimate.

jmonroe

tjc78

Or you could go all fancy and say Cabernet Red over Parchment

tjc78

One of my favorite color names was Toyota's pearl white Blizzard Pearl

Mr_Shiftright

Rosso Fiorano over Crema (Ferrari)

jmonroe1

tjc78 said:

Or you could go all fancy and say Cabernet Red over Parchment

You just had to bring that up, huh? :@ :@

jmonroe

xwesx

Well, considering that parchment is made from animal skins, it may not be the fashionable choice of language these days....

Mr_Shiftright

Just quote Shakespeare first, and then you're good to go:

Hamlet: Is not parchment made of sheepskins?
Horatio: Ay, my lord, and of calves' skins too.

Act V: 1

tjc78

jmonroe1 said:

tjc78 said:

Or you could go all fancy and say Cabernet Red over Parchment

You just had to bring that up, huh? :@ :@

jmonroe

Damn Right!!! (Don't go into the Hyundai Owner's thread you'll see a picture too!!

Christehper13

Hi, Looking at possibly trading a 2014 Honda CR-V EX with 57k miles in New York City/Long Island area any ideas what to expect. Clean except some minor door dings. Grey exterior  / grey interior. 

qbrozen

Christehper13 said:

Hi, Looking at possibly trading a 2014 Honda CR-V EX with 57k miles in New York City/Long Island area any ideas what to expect. Clean except some minor door dings. Grey exterior  / grey interior. 

Assuming AWD, you are looking at about $12k-$12.5k

tifighter

qbrozen said:

tifighter said:

Okay, guesses on auction for one 15.5 (yes it says that on the Monroney) Volvo XC70 T6, Platinum trim, all options. Cute blue polestar square. 33K miles. Seattle area. Bronze Metallic (brown), black guts. No runs, hits, errors, one owner.

Auction? Mid $26k range

Volvo update - $28K trade in offer. With the tax credit in WA for trade, not amazing, not awful.