Real-World Trade-In Values

sda

henryn said:

With me, it depends. One of my criteria is how the tires are actually performing in the wet. When I bought that Passat TDI last August, it had 4/32 on the front tires, and 6/32 on the rears. Initially, I was contemplating keeping the car until the last minute (December 2018), after all, NO depreciation. Under that scenario, I was going to just go ahead and replace all 4 tires. I would have to buy new tires before December 2018, so why not do it sooner and get the maximum use out of the new tires before I took the buyback?

But the tires on there did behave very well in the wet, and I started thinking that I wanted to take the money while the taking was good, so I left the tires alone. 5,000 miles later, when I did the buyback, the tires had not appreciably worn, and were still working very well, wet or dry.

This new (to me) Chrysler Town & Country has 6/32 at all 4 corners on what appears to be the original set of tires. A little quick math says 11/32 new, now at 6/32 after 34,800 miles, so approximately 7k miles per 1/32 of tread. If I'm at 6/32, and want to replace at 4/32, they should be good for another 14k miles. Maybe. Hopefully. Fingers crossed.

After all, it has been a number of years (at least 6 or 7) since I kept a car for that many miles (14k). Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm wasting a lot of money this way. But what the hell, I have no intention of leaving any money behind!

A certified member of CCBA!

videolife

I was told to post here by a moderator. Can you guys tell me if this is a good deal.

2015 fully loaded (with navigation, leather seats, sun roof, etc) Camry XLE 4 Cyl with 14,000 miles on it for $21,000 ($22,000, actually, with a $1,000 certified warranty)? I'll be putting a down payment of about $7,000, but because my credit score wasn't great (640, I think?), the best interest rate I got was 3.9% (through the dealership) and so my monthly payment is $269.

The salesman was a friend (friend of a friend more like it) and he said that the offer he gave me was the best he can do and that they actually bought the car for $700 less than the above price, so $20,300. What do you guys think? Good deal or can I do better?

qbrozen

hmmm... either he isn't a very good friend or they overpaid for the car. Either way, I might shop elsewhere. These are trading for the mid 16s at auction. $19000 should buy it. I can't say what a CPO warranty would cost you, but is $1k worth it on a Camry?

suydam

Was the asking price $21k? You should negotiate on a used car just like with a new one (although there's usually less wiggle room).

karenj168

Hi - I found a certified pre-owned 2016 IS300AWD at a Lexus dealdership with ~8K miles. This had been a corporate car leased for 7 months. It has premium and premium plus options, in addition to navigation. How do I determine the residual from the original lease? I'm trying to figure out how to determine what to offer and what would be a good deal. Given that I've always bought new or leased/bought out the lease and never purchased a pre-owned, I feel like a fish out of water! Thanks.

roadburner

I don't know how Lexus handles dealer purchases of off-lease cars, but what BMW dealers pay has little relationship to the residual as they are most often subvented.

stickguy

what the original lease terms were really does not matter at this point. Just what comparable cars are worth.

karenj168

Ok, so since the original terms of the lease are insignificant, can you give me any advice on an initial offer and a what would be a good deal? Thanks.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

what the original lease terms were really does not matter at this point. Just what comparable cars are worth.

True, plus, it's a Lexus employee or executive lease, at that short of term. So, irrelevant.

@qbrozen will stop in and put a number on it. (hopefully.. )

qbrozen

karenj168 said:

Hi - I found a certified pre-owned 2016 IS300AWD at a Lexus dealdership with ~8K miles. This had been a corporate car leased for 7 months. It has premium and premium plus options, in addition to navigation. How do I determine the residual from the original lease? I'm trying to figure out how to determine what to offer and what would be a good deal. Given that I've always bought new or leased/bought out the lease and never purchased a pre-owned, I feel like a fish out of water! Thanks.

mid 31s at the block, so $34k-$35k retail. CPO? Not really sure what that should add to a Lexus nor what it might be worth to you. My guess is $36k should buy it with the CPO. What are they asking for it?

Mr_Shiftright

Q-- could you see if you have anything on this one:

2008 Mini Cooper S Clubman, 75K, 6-speed manual, pano, all options except NAV, pepper white with black trim. San Francisco Bay Area. Very clean car. Dealer is asking $9,500, I'm thinkin' retail is $8,000--$8,500, but this is a strong market for those cars, so.....

qbrozen

A white 6-spd with 73,780 miles went through the SF auction at $5k on the nose. So $8k would prob be my upper limit and start them at 7.

That sounds good. Edmunds pegged the car at $6K retail in "outstanding" condition but I don't think that's going to happen to anybody around here. 

$8K wouldn't be a great buy but I have to say this car is cherry top to bottom. 

trusaleen1

Hello, can you please give me the Karpower, or ballpark numbers for my trade. I would really appreciate it. 2015 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L V6 fully loaded except for navi. Car has 58,000 miles, body is clean from defects, non smoker. I live in central cali, but most likely will trade in the the bay area

qbrozen

Not sure what Karpower is.

Anyway, that is a TON of miles on a 2015. I have absolutely no comps for that. There was one in poor condition with 46k that went for $15.5k. If yours is real nice, $14k might not be far off the mark on a trade.

videolife

qbrozen said:

hmmm... either he isn't a very good friend or they overpaid for the car. Either way, I might shop elsewhere. These are trading for the mid 16s at auction. $19000 should buy it. I can't say what a CPO warranty would cost you, but is $1k worth it on a Camry?

Well he says that with it I get the 3.9% rate, but I honestly don't know if that's true or not. He says that when the bank sees that it's been certified, they give you the lower rate because of that. I wonder if anyone here knows if that's true.

suydam said:

Was the asking price $21k? You should negotiate on a used car just like with a new one (although there's usually less wiggle room).

Yes. Here's the thing. There's what he calls the "Internet Price" and the "Sticker Price." Internet price is what's listed on the net, which is a price set to compete with all other internet sellers. So THAT price, he says, is NOT negotiable. That price is $21k, yes. The Sticker price (sticker on the window) is $24,000. He said if someone is looking for a car, he negotiates down from THAT price. But with me, since I know him, he gave me the internet price from the start and then discounted me the AIP (?) fee (which is $1,800), but asked me to pay $250 "under the table." I also told him I didn't want the CPO warranty, but still wanted the 3.9% rate and he said the manager said that if I gave them $400, so that he can pay off the finance guys, he could make that happen.

So he's basically doing two things: dropping the fee of $1,800 and keeping the 3.9% fee, but asking me to pay him $400. So not dropping the 21K price by even a penny, but simply doing what I just mentioned and that's all. What do you think? I mean all the shadyness aside, if we can focus on just one thing: the price of the car, would you say it's worth it or no?

suydam

You can negotiate an internet price too. Lot of BS going on here. No under the table payments. Not a good way to do business.

qbrozen

Wow. So much BS.

well, ignoring all of that, I stick by my previous numbers. 21 is not a good price.

28firefighter

I'd walk away. This is ridiculous. 

roadburner

28firefighter said:

I'd walk away. This is ridiculous. 

Agreed- that sleazy guy is anything but a friend...

stickguy

they can ask whatever price they want. Most likely a loaded Camry like that can probably sell for the 21K (frankly, a Camry IMO is much better bought new).

But once they start talking about cash under the table, run like heck from their.

nyccarguy

trusaleen1 said:

Hello, can you please give me the Karpower, or ballpark numbers for my trade. I would really appreciate it. 2015 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L V6 fully loaded except for navi. Car has 58,000 miles, body is clean from defects, non smoker. I live in central cali, but most likely will trade in the the bay area

Yikes! I thought I did a lot of driving. 58K on a 2015 is damn impressive!

stickguy

I haven't broken 15K on my 2015. And I got it in early November 2014. Heck, I barely have 38K on my 2013, and I got that in September 2012.

andres3

$250 or $400 under the table is way too much for a "friend" or even a "friend of a friend." Should be more like a volunteered Dinner and Drinks tonight on me at most; so maybe $50 tops for doing a "favor."

I'd run away!

videolife

Thanks, guys. Three things I was really hoping you all could clarify for me, as these three things specifically are what I've been dying to find out, but have been unable to thus far, as I don't know many people to ask.

1) The price listed on the internet, do salespeople add fees and taxes ON TOP of that price? Or are the fees and taxes included?

2) When you walk into an actual dealership and the price they have listed online is $20,999, is it a normal, everyday thing to be able to walk out of there after taxes and after all fees have been added to final (out-the-door) price and pay LESS than $20,999?

3) Focusing strictly on price for this model, this amount of miles, 2015 and fully loaded, what is a good out-the-door price? I don't know of any way to check dealership sold prices, so I don't know how any of you would reach that conclusion, so if you could please explain to me how the number you provide is current market value, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks again.

qbrozen said:

Wow. So much BS.

well, ignoring all of that, I stick by my previous numbers. 21 is not a good price.

21 out the door, you mean? Or before fees and taxes? What do you personally think is a good price for the speifici car I posted about. 2015 Toyota Camry XLE 4 Cyl, with 14,000 miles, fully loaded, leather seats, bluetooth, sunroof, navigation.

stickguy said:

they can ask whatever price they want. Most likely a loaded Camry like that can probably sell for the 21K (frankly, a Camry IMO is much better bought new).

Same question. 21k out the door? Or before fees and taxes?

suydam

Look at Edmunds Price. From the home page, select Used Cars at the top, then Appraise Car. Put in all relevant information and then you'll have a good idea of what you might reasonably expect to pay. All dealer offers are before taxes. Unless, after some negotiation, they offer you a written OTD price.

breld

@videolife - there's no easy answer to those questions, as they are all based on what the dealership is asking/advertising for the vehicle. And unfortunately, there's certainly no standard on how individual dealerships price their cars - some do indeed offer fair value pricing on their vehicles, while others inflate the asking prices by thousands, just to "allow" a buyer to negotiate down. Some tack on additional fees that are simply additional profit labeled as "fees" to suggest that they are non-negotiable.

All that is to say, what a dealership is listing a car for is almost meaningless. This forum is excellent in providing information on what a fair price for a car is.

So...@qbrozen said that Camry has an auction price of around $16k, which more or less approximates what it "cost" the dealer. While a "fair" profit is debatable for sure, generally $2-3k would be considered "fair," thus leading to q's estimate of $19,000 being a fair price for the car.

That is $19,000 plus taxes. In fact, when I offer a price for a car, I specifically state it as $XX amount "plus taxes," so as to avoid any confusion on additional fees and such.

That said, Camrys, and often Toyotas in general, often bring silly prices on the used market. $20-21k for a certified example may indeed be what the dealers are getting - which simply brings us to @stickguy's point: for something like a Camry (or an Accord, or a 4Runner, etc.), it's often a better deal just to buy a new one than a slightly used one.

Truecar.com shows an average $4,400 off a new Camry XLE, at least for my region. I think that gets you to a point where $21k for one that's 2 model years and 14k miles old may not make much sense.

xwesx

Agreed, @breld. Until you start getting the numbers on paper, it is hard to say what they included in the advertised price of the car, and what they plan to add on top of it.

Generally, the advertised price does not include any fees such as "deal doc fees" and TTL, or "tax, title, and license." However, if you say you want the car for "$21,000 out the door," that means the price plus all other taxes and fees. Then the dealer has to go back and decide what that translates to for the price of the car. TTL is the part that neither party has control over; everything else is negotiable!

Mr_Shiftright

You have to keep in mind the old adage "all new cars are the same, all used cars are different'. In terms of price, you really don't know how much the dealer has in the car. It's possible, for instance, that he's in deeper than the auction reports suggest he should be--he might bid up on a car that he thinks has potential for "above book" profit, or someone might have goofed on a trade and now the dealer is in too deep on recon costs. Those cars can be harder to buy.

stickguy

pet peeve. On a trade, dealers hammer you with up to the minute reductions in trade value. But on their cars, market value seems to be irrelevant when they price based on "what they have in it". Because if they overpaid, their problem, not mine.

videolife

breld: Thanks a million for your detailed reply. By "plus taxes" you mean that it's included in the $19,000, right? Not $19,000 plus whatever taxes are available?

And yes, after having called a few dealerships today, I did the same thing. Made sure there wasn't another single penny added to the OTD cost. So for pretty much the same vehicle, I got around $20,000 OTD. $3,000 less than the other place. So I'm going to go in there and see what happens to the price after financing.

Which brings me to another quick question. I read somewhere (either on here or City Data) where (unless I'm misread or possibly even took what he said out of context) some guy said that he doesn't mention his down payment until after they give him the OTD price. Why is that? How would that negatively affect him (or me)?

xwesx: Thank you for the insight. Appreciate it.

Mr_Shiftright: That's true. But I think breld said it perfectly. What they have in it and what they're charging doesn't matter, because there are some ways to find out what a fair price for the car is, like asking some of the knowledgeable people on here about the worth.

stickguy: Exactly. Glad I learned this lesson. I actually felt bad for a moment asking for a discount, because they kept telling me what they "have in it."

brunof

Hello. One of the moderators referred me here.

Looking for a real world trade in value for a 2014 Chevy Volt. 19,500 miles. Every Extra except for polished wheels and trunk mat.

Nav, Leather, Bose, Subwoofer, Safety Packages 1&2, Backup Camera, etc. Car is in fantastic condition. I went to dealer with TMV info but was floored with how LOW the offer was.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

qbrozen

videolife said:

breld: Thanks a million for your detailed reply. By "plus taxes" you mean that it's included in the $19,000, right? Not $19,000 plus whatever taxes are available? And yes, after having called a few dealerships today, I did the same thing. Made sure there wasn't another single penny added to the OTD cost. So for pretty much the same vehicle, I got around $20,000 OTD. $3,000 less than the other place. So I'm going to go in there and see what happens to the price after financing. Which brings me to another quick question. I read somewhere (either on here or City Data) where (unless I'm misread or possibly even took what he said out of context) some guy said that he doesn't mention his down payment until after they give him the OTD price. Why is that? How would that negatively affect him (or me)? xwesx: Thank you for the insight. Appreciate it. Mr_Shiftright: That's true. But I think breld said it perfectly. What they have in it and what they're charging doesn't matter, because there are some ways to find out what a fair price for the car is, like asking some of the knowledgeable people on here about the worth. stickguy: Exactly. Glad I learned this lesson. I actually felt bad for a moment asking for a discount, because they kept telling me what they "have in it."

Down payment doesn't affect anything. As long as you stick to discussing OTD price and don't let them change the discussion to monthly payment, you are good. Glad you have found better prices elsewhere.

qbrozen

brunof said:

Hello. One of the moderators referred me here. Looking for a real world trade in value for a 2014 Chevy Volt. 19,500 miles. Every Extra except for polished wheels and trunk mat. Nav, Leather, Bose, Subwoofer, Safety Packages 1&2, Backup Camera, etc. Car is in fantastic condition. I went to dealer with TMV info but was floored with how LOW the offer was. Thank you for your time and consideration.

What state are you in? What is the color combo? Any accident history?

breld

videolife said:

breld: Thanks a million for your detailed reply. By "plus taxes" you mean that it's included in the $19,000, right? Not $19,000 plus whatever taxes are available?

Well, no, based on Q's advice, sounds to me like $19,000 plus tax (meaning tax on top of the $19,000) sounds like a fair deal.

So without knowing your tax rate, sounds like the $20k out the door from the other dealership ("out the door" should mean "all in" including taxes, fees...everything) is a good deal.

videolife

I owe you guys one. Thanks again.

Mr_Shiftright

"Mr_Shiftright: That's true. But I think breld said it perfectly. What they have in it and what they're charging doesn't matter, because there are some ways to find out what a fair price for the car is, like asking some of the knowledgeable people on here about the worth."

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@videolife ------Well it's true that if the dealer is buried in the car that's "not your problem" in one sense---but in another sense it is very much your problem, because he's not going to sell it to you at a loss, no matter what "book" is or what other dealers are selling a similar car for. He's not going to eat a loss. He could keep the car for a year if he wanted to until he finds his buyer.

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

"Mr_Shiftright: That's true. But I think breld said it perfectly. What they have in it and what they're charging doesn't matter, because there are some ways to find out what a fair price for the car is, like asking some of the knowledgeable people on here about the worth."

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@videolife ------Well it's true that if the dealer is buried in the car that's "not your problem" in one sense---but in another sense it is very much your problem, because he's not going to sell it to you at a loss, no matter what "book" is or what other dealers are selling a similar car for. He's not going to eat a loss. He could keep the car for a year if he wanted to until he finds his buyer.

Would a buyer really come along in a year to overpay? What if it NEVER sells?

suydam

When I traded in my Vibe, the dealer advertised it at a ridiculous price. They left it there for nearly a year, finally dropping the price enough that I guess someone eventually bought it.

Mr_Shiftright

When I say "loss" I mean the dealer taking less than his usual minimal profit margins. He may in fact eventually have to sell it at a break-even price, but most dealers who have been in business awhile avoid sinking money into trade-ins and just wholesale the edgy ones.

My point was that the dealer is under no obligation to meet your expectations of what's "fair". What's fair to you may not be fair to him because the profit margin on other similar cars you are comping against might be higher than his.

Short answer--if he lets you walk away with your offer, and doesn't call or contact you, you're out.

brunof

qbrozen said:

brunof said:

Hello. One of the moderators referred me here. Looking for a real world trade in value for a 2014 Chevy Volt. 19,500 miles. Every Extra except for polished wheels and trunk mat. Nav, Leather, Bose, Subwoofer, Safety Packages 1&2, Backup Camera, etc. Car is in fantastic condition. I went to dealer with TMV info but was floored with how LOW the offer was. Thank you for your time and consideration.

What state are you in? What is the color combo? Any accident history?

I am located in Southern California. Ashen Grey Ext and black leather interior with dark ceramic accents. No accidents. Vehicle also has HOV access stickers. 

breld

Mr_Shiftright said:

My point was that the dealer is under no obligation to meet your expectations of what's "fair". What's fair to you may not be fair to him because the profit margin on other similar cars you are comping against might be higher than his.

Short answer--if he lets you walk away with your offer, and doesn't call or contact you, you're out.

Completely agree - when we say it's "not your problem" that the dealer has too much in a car, that's true because you don't have to buy it, not that they have to reduce their price.

And "would a buyer come along and overpay" for a car? I imagine if dealers are patient enough, that's exactly what happens oftentimes. Despite all the information available out there, I believe there are a lot of consumers unfamiliar with what we consider to be fair pricing.

Mr_Shiftright

Well sometimes a buyer finds the exact used car they want--right color, options, mileage, condition.

There are no "used car factories" putting out exactly what everyone wants in a used car. I remember in my own case I had a very specific set of requirements---green body, black roof, sunroof, heated seats, leather, stick shift, supercharged, under 50K miles. These were absolutely the non-negotiable items. Took me a while to find one, and when I did, I paid almost dealer retail. The dealer really dug in on me. I suspect he paid a good price for it.

xwesx

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well sometimes a buyer finds the exact used car they want--right color, options, mileage, condition.

There are no "used car factories" putting out exactly what everyone wants in a used car. I remember in my own case I had a very specific set of requirements---green body, black roof, sunroof, heated seats, leather, stick shift, supercharged, under 50K miles. These were absolutely the non-negotiable items. Took me a while to find one, and when I did, I paid almost dealer retail. The dealer really dug in on me. I suspect he paid a good price for it.

And here you've had that car for how many years now?! In the end, you both made out fairly well on it.

Ignoring that little Carfax snafu, of course...... :@

Mr_Shiftright

Don't remind me....fortunately my car has depreciated into chump change, so the errant carfax notation doesn't matter anymore.

You reach a point in miles and age where carfax dings just aren't relevant unless it's one o' them french poodle cars like a Ferrari or some such. On a Ferrari, just MILES are a ding--a bad Carfax is anathema.

kyfdx

Walking away from a bad price is never a loss.

brunof

qbrozen said:

brunof said:

Hello. One of the moderators referred me here. Looking for a real world trade in value for a 2014 Chevy Volt. 19,500 miles. Every Extra except for polished wheels and trunk mat. Nav, Leather, Bose, Subwoofer, Safety Packages 1&2, Backup Camera, etc. Car is in fantastic condition. I went to dealer with TMV info but was floored with how LOW the offer was. Thank you for your time and consideration.

What state are you in? What is the color combo? Any accident history?

Los Angeles,CA. 
Ashen Grey Metallic / Dark Ceramic Accents / Black Leather. 
No accidents or dings. 

CarMax offered $13,000. A match in their inventory is selling $19,500  

qbrozen

Well, sorry to say, $13k is the correct number. Even a tad high. They are in the mid 13s at auction. $17.5k should be a normal asking price retail and accepting about $16k offers. Carmax doesn't work in the real world, of course.

brunof

I appreciate touqbrozen said:

Well, sorry to say, $13k is the correct number. Even a tad high. They are in the mid 13s at auction. $17.5k should be a normal asking price retail and accepting about $16k offers. Carmax doesn't work in the real world, of course.

I appreciate you taking the time to chime in here. Your info helps ease the sting. 

merlion0821

Looking for the value of a 2007 Honda Accord LX, 4 cyl w/ 5-speed manual transmission. One owner, silver, with 136,000 miles. Thanks!

cdnpinhead

Location is important, though maybe not so much with those miles.