Real-World Trade-In Values

Mr_Shiftright

About 1-2 mpg in most cases and a few hundred pounds of weight, which, I have to say, you can feel if you drive the two cars, one RWD, one AWD---like a Porsche, for instance.

stickguy

From my (admittedly limited) experience with that, I think the difference is more pronounced when adding drive to the front wheels in a RWD car, than it is adding mostly passive AWD to a FWD car. I honestly don't think I would notice a difference driving a FWD RDX instead of the AWD version the vast majority of the time. On a 3 series BMW, that I noticed a difference.

qbrozen

When I test drove an RDX, I felt it. I thought I was driving an AWD model. The salesperson thought so, too. But after a couple of miles, I said either it doesn't work or it is a FWD model. After we got back, he checked and found out it was FWD.

My order of preference is RWD, AWD, FWD.

qbrozen

In southeast US:

2015 328i = $18.8k
2015 328xi = $19.6k

A Q40, however, only sees a $150 difference for having AWD. Odd.

stickguy

It feels like a FWD, sure. The AWD doesn’t change it really though.

Mr_Shiftright

The small price difference with the SUVs kinda makes sense, since SUVs as a rule are marketed as "safer", and thus an AWD/SUV is safer still, right? RIGHT?

Unsubstantiated claims, but they seem to have an effect. You can't deny buyers' preferences for SUVs and trucks right now.

With a "driver's car", I suspect the AWD prejudice in warmer climates would be more pronounced.

pensfan83

I would think it also depends on how advanced the AWD system is too. In the Fusion Sport I drove the AWD setup it is not as advanced as say Acura's SH-AWD or quattro. The driving experiences were vastly different as well.

fushigi

I experience much better wet weather traction with AWD than with FWD. Very little concern about having to baby the throttle to avoid breaking traction (or engaging TCS). Heck, even in dry weather with the all-season tires most cars get it's way to easy to break traction when pulling away from a stop with anything more than moderate pedal pressure. AWD solves that.

I live in the snow belt and while I can usually avoid driving under severe conditions, sloppy roads are fairly common in winter. Local & state DsOT don't plow/salt/sand as much as they used to since they're always under such intense budget pressure. Coming back from my in-laws after visiting for Christmas involved driving 30-40 MPH for over 20 miles on an interstate that was getting slammed with lake effect snow. Maneuvering with AWD offered a lot more confidence that FWD.

The added cost up front and 1 MPG penalty are easily prices worth paying. The situation might be different if I didn't live where I do.

loic_91801

Asked for trade-in value few days ago, but provided the wrong vehicle Year!  Here is the request again with the correct info. 

Looking for the trade-in value and private party value of my current low mileage lease to determine if I have some equity that could be negotiated for the next lease. The car is a 2015 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring (metallic red with black interior) in great condition other than two small scratches on front and rear bumper (rear bumper scratch is deep enough to see the black plastic bumper), with only 18k miles. MSRP was just below $30k. Zip is 91801. Thanks!

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

I wonder what the market says about AWD in Phoenix or Florida? Maybe Q has a word on that.

Another interesting wrinkle on AWD, which isn't really related to value, is that it inspires over-confidence in some drivers, to their detriment.

AWD vs. Laws of Physics---guess who wins?

Maybe I'm biased, but it seems the "FAIL" videos are predominantly high-powered RWD cars. Often Mustangs, Camaros, and Corvettes.

andres3

stickguy said:

From my (admittedly limited) experience with that, I think the difference is more pronounced when adding drive to the front wheels in a RWD car, than it is adding mostly passive AWD to a FWD car. I honestly don't think I would notice a difference driving a FWD RDX instead of the AWD version the vast majority of the time. On a 3 series BMW, that I noticed a difference.

I think that has to do with the programming and sophistication of the AWD system. I'd suspect Toyota and Honda barely have AWD by definition. Subaru's is a good symmetrical 50/50 all the time system.
Audi's is in my biased opinion the best, often with a 60/40 Rear-bias split all the time system in the S models.

Admittedly, I don't have a lot of experience with AWD outside of Audi and VW. I have done several test drives of Subaru's, but that's about it. I do remember test driving a RAV 4 with and without during a hard rain (couldn't tell that much of a difference). I could tell the difference between the '16 S3 and '17 S3 (more Haldex advancements) though.

andres3

pensfan83 said:

I would think it also depends on how advanced the AWD system is too. In the Fusion Sport I drove the AWD setup it is not as advanced as say Acura's SH-AWD or quattro. The driving experiences were vastly different as well.

Ditto! See my post above written before I read yours!

andres3

fushigi said:

I experience much better wet weather traction with AWD than with FWD. Very little concern about having to baby the throttle to avoid breaking traction (or engaging TCS). Heck, even in dry weather with the all-season tires most cars get it's way to easy to break traction when pulling away from a stop with anything more than moderate pedal pressure. AWD solves that.

I live in the snow belt and while I can usually avoid driving under severe conditions, sloppy roads are fairly common in winter. Local & state DsOT don't plow/salt/sand as much as they used to since they're always under such intense budget pressure. Coming back from my in-laws after visiting for Christmas involved driving 30-40 MPH for over 20 miles on an interstate that was getting slammed with lake effect snow. Maneuvering with AWD offered a lot more confidence that FWD.

The added cost up front and 1 MPG penalty are easily prices worth paying. The situation might be different if I didn't live where I do.

I experienced some serious TCS intervention yesterday in the Kia since it was raining cats and dogs here in Southern CA. My guess is all Traction Control does is brake the spinning front tires and cut throttle to the engine at the same time. No loss of control that way, but annoying I'm spoiled.

Mr_Shiftright

All interesting. Let's stay on topic with Trade-In Values and perhaps we can post more about AWD elsewhere.

steine13

Oh fine, be that way.
My favorite used car dealer has two interesting rides..the first one is a rare bird in these parts, 
2007 Audi A4 FWD Auto 105k. 
Damage on one qpanel, clean otherwise,
3100 bucks.

https://lansing.craigslist.org/ctd/d/2007-audi-a4-sedan/6454653723.html

No I don't want it... I can spell HPFP, among other things but dang! That'd be fun for a while..

qbrozen

loic_91801 said:

Asked for trade-in value few days ago, but provided the wrong vehicle Year!  Here is the request again with the correct info. 

Looking for the trade-in value and private party value of my current low mileage lease to determine if I have some equity that could be negotiated for the next lease. The car is a 2015 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring (metallic red with black interior) in great condition other than two small scratches on front and rear bumper (rear bumper scratch is deep enough to see the black plastic bumper), with only 18k miles. MSRP was just below $30k. Zip is 91801. Thanks!

About $16k.
yes, same as the 2014. Guess it is the miles that matter in this case. Kind of an anomoly. 

steine13

Aaaaand behind door #2

2008 Honda Fit Sport dark silver 5sp auto 115k
Looks decent, $3800 asking price.
If it were stick I'd probably find a way to need it.

Still, he is not looking to hurt anyone:

https://lansing.craigslist.org/ctd/d/2008-honda-fit-4-dr-hatchback/6454622297.html

Just posting as on-topic and mildly interesting... I'm not asking for any exertions by the pros here...;)

Cheers -mathias

qbrozen

If a clean car with clean history, it would score $3k at auction, so $3800 retail would be a bargain.

corvette

I had the AWD version of that Audi as a lease (different color combo). It would randomly misfire even on premium fuel, but was otherwise a great car. 

steine13

corvette said:

I had the AWD version of that Audi as a lease (different color combo). 

Wait. What?
They come in different colors??
Seems like 9 out of ten are silver over black leather (ette).

corvette

steine13 said:

Wait. What?
They come in different colors??
Seems like 9 out of ten are silver over black leather (ette).

LOL, yes! Navy blue with an ivory interior. Aluminum trim inside (most on the lot had wood). I think those wheels indicate it has the sport suspension. At that time, sport suspension on an Audi was about equivalent to the standard suspension on a BMW. Still one of the best looking cars I've owned.

andres3

corvette said:

steine13 said:

Wait. What?
They come in different colors??
Seems like 9 out of ten are silver over black leather (ette).

LOL, yes! Navy blue with an ivory interior. Aluminum trim inside (most on the lot had wood). I think those wheels indicate it has the sport suspension. At that time, sport suspension on an Audi was about equivalent to the standard suspension on a BMW. Still one of the best looking cars I've owned.

Did you compare the sport suspension of the A3 to the A4 around that time frame? My '06 A3 with the sport suspension was really hunkered down! Choosing the "sport" package was the best decision I ever made with a new car. Without it, I might not have become an enthusiast (although there's always coil-overs upgrades).

corvette

andres3 said:

corvette said:

steine13 said:

Wait. What?
They come in different colors??
Seems like 9 out of ten are silver over black leather (ette).

LOL, yes! Navy blue with an ivory interior. Aluminum trim inside (most on the lot had wood). I think those wheels indicate it has the sport suspension. At that time, sport suspension on an Audi was about equivalent to the standard suspension on a BMW. Still one of the best looking cars I've owned.

Did you compare the sport suspension of the A3 to the A4 around that time frame? My '06 A3 with the sport suspension was really hunkered down! Choosing the "sport" package was the best decision I ever made with a new car. Without it, I might not have become an enthusiast (although there's always coil-overs upgrades).

No, I had driven an A3 when they first came out in 2005 or so, and it felt very nimble and sporty. Don't remember whether it had sport suspension. My A4 had the "sport" suspension. They were running an amazing lease deal on the A4, so the A3 wasn't a consideration at that point.

loic_91801

qbrozen said:

loic_91801 said:

Asked for trade-in value few days ago, but provided the wrong vehicle Year!  Here is the request again with the correct info. 

Looking for the trade-in value and private party value of my current low mileage lease to determine if I have some equity that could be negotiated for the next lease. The car is a 2015 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring (metallic red with black interior) in great condition other than two small scratches on front and rear bumper (rear bumper scratch is deep enough to see the black plastic bumper), with only 18k miles. MSRP was just below $30k. Zip is 91801. Thanks!

About $16k.
yes, same as the 2014. Guess it is the miles that matter in this case. Kind of an anomoly. 

Really?? That’s really odd! The kbb website shows a $3000 increase going from a 2014 to a 2015...

Michaell

loic_91801 said:

qbrozen said:

loic_91801 said:

Asked for trade-in value few days ago, but provided the wrong vehicle Year!  Here is the request again with the correct info. 

Looking for the trade-in value and private party value of my current low mileage lease to determine if I have some equity that could be negotiated for the next lease. The car is a 2015 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring (metallic red with black interior) in great condition other than two small scratches on front and rear bumper (rear bumper scratch is deep enough to see the black plastic bumper), with only 18k miles. MSRP was just below $30k. Zip is 91801. Thanks!

About $16k.
yes, same as the 2014. Guess it is the miles that matter in this case. Kind of an anomoly. 

Really?? That’s really odd! The kbb website shows a $3000 increase going from a 2014 to a 2015...


As the saying goes - books and websites don't buy cars, dealers do.

Q has access to auction data, which is about as accurate as you can get.

28firefighter

qbrozen said:

I dont have the data for that one car, so I can only guess. If they paid $25k, they still had to pay auction fees, transport, and cleanup. $26k is still a safe bet. He can certainly try $26.5k, but I think we're getting down to nickels and dimes here. Would he walk at $27k?

And on this week’s edition of “Helping unreasonable people buy cars”, my buddy offered $26k and they laughed him out. 

qbrozen

loic_91801 said:

loic_91801 said:

Asked for trade-in value few days ago, but provided the wrong vehicle Year!  Here is the request again with the correct info. 

Looking for the trade-in value and private party value of my current low mileage lease to determine if I have some equity that could be negotiated for the next lease. The car is a 2015 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring (metallic red with black interior) in great condition other than two small scratches on front and rear bumper (rear bumper scratch is deep enough to see the black plastic bumper), with only 18k miles. MSRP was just below $30k. Zip is 91801. Thanks!

About $16k.
yes, same as the 2014. Guess it is the miles that matter in this case. Kind of an anomoly. 

Really?? That’s really odd! The kbb website shows a $3000 increase going from a 2014 to a 2015...

$3k is also odd if both have 18k miles. $2500-$3k is the typical difference in model years in this pricerange, but that includes a year's worth of miles, too. In other words, $20k for a 2015 with 36k miles vs $17.5k for a 2014 with 48k miles, for example. 

If I had taken a blind guess on yours, I would have expected a $1k bump going up one model year but at the same miles. Oh well. The market is not always logical.

jpp75

Hey q,  now that VW dealers are selling the TDI Touareg I'm thinking of swapping mine out for one.   What's the current value for a 2016 Lux with driver assistance package, 27.5k miles, gray in Colorado?
Thanks

qbrozen

I couldnt tell you because VW dealers have them, not the auctions. 

Michaell

qbrozen said:

I couldnt tell you because VW dealers have them, not the auctions. 

The 2016 Lux is his current leased vehicle - he'd like a trade value on it.

I've been in touch with @jpp5862 all afternoon - it's almost impossible to get a fair market value on the TDIs. One dealer offered 15% off sticker, but they didn't have a preferred color.

qbrozen

Still not following. So is the ask for the value of a non-TDI?

Michaell

qbrozen said:

Still not following. So is the ask for the value of a non-TDI?

Correct. 

qbrozen

About $29k for a 3.6 Lux.

just_focus

I will say that the trade in value has really dropped in the last few years on most vehicles. Here in Cincinnati there are about 5 family's that own most of the big dealerships. They will offer $3000.00 for your trade in and then put it on their lot for $8,000.00 and not even recondition it. Heck you are lucky if they clean it up. I got a really big laugh from the very first post on this thread from my old buddy isellhondas when he said why would we pay more for your trade then we can buy the same car at auction? There are many reasons. Can you test drive the car at auction and put it on your lift and inspect? and of course the big question do you want to sell your new Honda? Your question leads me to believe that you are really asking "do we think you are stupid" but then you offer a low ball price for my trade (way below any book price) and say the thing I have heard a million times " well that is what it sells for at auction" and then mark it up $5000.00 you must think I am the stupid one. I also notice here anyway that the dealers lots are busting at the seams with used cars and they are renting abandon warehouse parking lots to park more used cars. Whatever they are trying to accomplish must be working because you will be hard pressed to find a car over $4000.00 for sale by a private owner anymore. I guess there are too many scams for people to sell cars these days? The days of finding a good low mileage used car cheap is almost impossible because that 2004 corolla with 50,000 miles on it that the old lady traded in for $2500.00 is now a $9500.00 Cream Puff on the dealers lot.

qbrozen

Normal markup on most average used cars is $4k. But that is asking price. I can't say for sure, but I'd wager the average selling price works out to just north of $3k over. 

steine13

@just_focus:
I sympathize, and it was probably therapeutic to get all that off your chest.
Here are a few thoughts on the subject:

- The business with "mark it up $5000" is a bit much, but four thousand is normal. In 2016, I sold my 2014 Outback to the dealer I bought it from. Sure enough, they gave me $19 even and put it ont he lot for $22,995. My boss just traded a car in for $8,200 and sure enough, they're asking $12.
As qbrozen said, that's the asking price. If they can't "make" two thousand bucks per car, however you want to define their "profit", they will not survive.

- The really bad part about this is that working poor people have a hard time finding a serviceable $2,000 car anymore. The low end of the market got jacked up by the financial crisis. Plenty of good $2k cars around.. for $4k. This is in the process of getting fixed, as there are much more cars at the low end available now that a couple years ago and prices have started to normalize again.

-  You reference "book price" in your post but that means almost nothing in the low end of the market and is the source of a lot of confusion. Everybody puts in "excellent"condition for the 2005 Camry. No such thing as an "excellent" car with 100k on it. In the $3,000 region, you have to go the other way and ask -- what are the odds I spend $3k on this car and get 30k miles out of it -- 10 cents/mile being a strong value for transportation, and a good number to shoot for. I'm seeing any number of cars on our local Craigslist -- some from dealers -- that meet this criterion.

- It is an unfortunate fact that many customers will roll in with a car on its last legs that they owe money on. Part of the the high asking prices on dealer lots are due to this fact -- sometimes you have to structure the deal in such a way that two or three grand in negative equity have to disappear to put a deal together. Many people are in that situation and don't even realize it. I'm not saying any of this is a good idea, but it's a reality. It's expensive to be poor.

Like most, I prefer buying from private owners. But there are two advantages to buying from a dealer: #1 they know what a car is actually worth, and #2 they buy 'em right.  Over the past few weeks, I've helped two colleagues buy used cars, and they both got them from the same used-car dealer... where the ASKING price was less than any comparable "deal" from private owners advertising on Craigs. A third car just sold after three days on the lot that I was thinking of getting myself... if you know what you're doing, there are deals to be had.

Tax season is upon us, so it'll get crazy again for a few months, but overall the used-car market appears to be on the mend.

kyfdx

Also... when the dealer goes to the auction, they can buy whatever vehicle they want. If it's a make/model they don't want, they just pass it up.

But, if you are trading, they have to take your car. If it's not something they would have purchased, otherwise, they are not going to offer you the full auction price. If it's something they would rather not have at all, then they have to send it to auction, pay transport and auction fees, etc, etc.

fushigi

Wife was in a minor accident the other day. An Uber driver pulled out of a cross street w/out right of way and she had to slam the brakes. There was a collision but thankfully she had lost most of her speed before impact. She just has a few bruises (did see a doctor to make sure). Car has front end damage to the front fascia, bumper, grill, and who knows what else. Was basically drivable though there was an antifreeze smell so we had it towed.

Damage aside I'd like a rough idea of what her car might be worth so we have the info when we get the repair estimates. It'll of course be up to the insurance co but I like to have as much info as possible at my disposal. If borderline totalled I think the wife would prefer it to be repaired; she gets more attached to her cars than I do.

2012 Hyundai Elantra Limited sedan w/Technology package (leather, navi, sunroof, etc.)
Light blue exterior / tan interior
36K miles
Dealer maintained, new tires (4 months)
Pre-accident there were just a couple of door dings
Western Chicago suburbs (Aurora/Naperville area).

budsbrother

Question for qbrozen. Would you know what a red 17 Taurus Limited with17,7xx miles went for on January 9 at "Massachusetts Auto Auction" ? The wife loves the red with beige. I know enough not to buy those Tauruses new, they depreciate way too much! Thanks

qbrozen

fushigi said:

Wife was in a minor accident the other day. An Uber driver pulled out of a cross street w/out right of way and she had to slam the brakes. There was a collision but thankfully she had lost most of her speed before impact. She just has a few bruises (did see a doctor to make sure). Car has front end damage to the front fascia, bumper, grill, and who knows what else. Was basically drivable though there was an antifreeze smell so we had it towed. Damage aside I'd like a rough idea of what her car might be worth so we have the info when we get the repair estimates. It'll of course be up to the insurance co but I like to have as much info as possible at my disposal. If borderline totalled I think the wife would prefer it to be repaired; she gets more attached to her cars than I do. 2012 Hyundai Elantra Limited sedan w/Technology package (leather, navi, sunroof, etc.) Light blue exterior / tan interior 36K miles Dealer maintained, new tires (4 months) Pre-accident there were just a couple of door dings Western Chicago suburbs (Aurora/Naperville area).

You'd be looking at about $10k-10.5k retail replacement cost.

qbrozen

budsbrother said:

Question for qbrozen. Would you know what a red 17 Taurus Limited with17,7xx miles went for on January 9 at "Massachusetts Auto Auction" ? The wife loves the red with beige. I know enough not to buy those Tauruses new, they depreciate way too much! Thanks

I don't see that one so it must not have been Manheim. If a FWD model, similar units are right in the high $19s at the block, regardless of engine. AWD adds about $2500-$3k.

fushigi

qbrozen said:

You'd be looking at about $10k-10.5k retail replacement cost.

Thank you.

nyccarguy

@fushigi

How do you like your 2017 QX60?

fushigi

nyccarguy said:

@fushigi

How do you like your 2017 QX60?

TBH it's a bit of a mixed bag. There's plenty to like. Seat comfort is excellent. There's plenty of cargo space for pretty much anything we buy (including a six & a half foot long box that effortlessly slid in). Power is basically as I want it; i.e. not overwhelming unless I punch it but no problem doing 80 at the end of an on-ramp. Engine is turning 2100 RPMs at 80MPH; 2400 at 90; it's a great cruiser. Adaptive cruise is cool. Sport mode is handy for when strong acceleration is desired. I do not mind the CVT really at all as the QX fakes 1-2-3 shifting under some conditions so it feels like a regular AT. HVAC controls work pretty seamlessly; I especially liked the ventilated seat in summer and am thoroughly enjoying the heated steering wheel.

But .. I've had a couple of (presumed) sensor glitches where the front collision avoidance just errors out and doesn't operate until I reboot the car (shut it off/on). While I love the surround-view camera it's a little goofy in that if I shift into reverse and I'm close to something in front it still beeps at me. Hello? I'm in gear to head the other direction. And the infotainment, specifically USB interface, is sorely inadequate. Many cars give you the hierarchical folder view that you might set up on a USB thumb drive, allowing you to group/sort your music however you want. But Infiniti does not honor that and instead does a single list of all folders containing music. And worse, you cannot sort the list and it isn't in a consumer-friendly order; i.e. alphabetical. All of those negatives are with the electronics and really should be fixable via firmware updates if Infiniti were so inclined. The main physical gripe is minor but the cargo floor has a slight slope to it; if you were to put a ball in it would roll towards the liftgate (and potentially fall out on it's own when the gate was opened). The USB ports don't seem to charge high-speed, at least with my phone.

Fuel economy is a little shy of what I expected but then the car is still young with just 6600 miles so far and the bulk of my driving is considered on the city cycle. And I will probably never engage Eco mode; I didn't buy a 295HP car to drive in Eco mode. Cornering/handling is on the soft side but is fine for day-to-day.

budsbrother

I don't see that one so it must not have been Manheim. If a FWD model, similar units are right in the high $19s at the block, regardless of engine. AWD adds about $2500-$3k.

Thank you very much! They are asking $23,500, so 23,500 - 4,000 (average markup) = $19,500. I'll guess that it came from the local Adesa auction that is located in a former General Motors factory. Never been to that one, but I wouldn't mind seeing it sometime.

kyfdx

@qbrozen My friends made a deal on the Lexus. Took a week. About $1000 higher than the number you put on it.

I’m afraid the buyer would have grossly overpaid, without your guidance. Thanks!

qbrozen

$16k is not bad. I would have said $16.5k is fair for retail, so he saved a few hundred bucks and the seller made a couple grand more than trading it. 

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

$16k is not bad. I would have said $16.5k is fair for retail, so he saved a few hundred bucks and the seller made a couple grand more than trading it. 

Thanks. The car is for his wife. The last time she bought a car was in 2005 (from my wife), so in 10-12 years, it won't matter what she paid for it. She is happy with it.

stevem83

Can someone please give me a good trade-in value for a 2014 Honda CRV LX AWD with 22k miles? Black Ext/Int. 

stevem83

Boston area. Great condition.