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Is Tesla A Game Changer?

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  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Musk parleyed $28,000 from his father into $22 million in his first company and really scored with PayPal. Worth $11 billion now. Got two bachelor degrees (physics and economics). He got into the physics PhD program at Stanford but decided to go the Bill Gates route. (Wiki)

    Not a slacker.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Reminds me of Tucker, but on a larger scale. Tucker was also a con man, but he did get things done as well. Just impressive enough to keep the ball rolling.

    Musk's latest announcement of sending people to Mars by 2025 was a bit much though. NASA (who ought to know) pretty much says any people going to Mars, if they even get there, aren't coming home.

    Anyone ready to die for SpaceX?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Tesla is now on Consumer Reports' "Ten Worst Cars" list. Oh, my, how over is this honeymoon?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    The CR change is a huge black eye for Tesla, on the eve (eventually) of rolling out their volume car. It will be hard to get excited about buying one for most people, I'd think.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    Tesla is now on Consumer Reports' "Ten Worst Cars" list. Oh, my, how over is this honeymoon?

    Well, you can score a 99 and still make a turd if it is unreliable. As I've said before, you can make the fastest car in the world, but it'll get smoked by a Prius most of the time if it's in the shop all the time.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Is Tesla still doing that generous buy-back program?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2016
    CR is recommending the Model S (the one without the gull wing doors). (CNBC)

    "The fact that the Tesla Model S is average at all, is impressive, considering the short life of this company, when you have automakers such as Fiat Chrysler unable to make very conventional cars reliable, the fact that the Tesla Model S is average is a very impressive feat."
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    stever said:

    CR is recommending the Model S (the one without the gull wing doors). (CNBC)

    "The fact that the Tesla Model S is average at all, is impressive, considering the short life of this company, when you have automakers such as Fiat Chrysler unable to make very conventional cars reliable, the fact that the Tesla Model S is average is a very impressive feat."

    Unable? or Unwilling? Don't give a rats [non-permissible content removed]? Deeply embedded culture to under perform?

    Probably a lot of all of the above.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That's correct. It's the Model X that they are slamming the hardest. The S gets a "meh" rating for reliability, last I looked. First year reliablity for the X is rated "well below average".
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Even below average cars are pretty good these days. Drove the Dodge van to San Diego last week and its got a 168,000 miles on it.

    (I know, I know, it has about 2,000 good miles left before something lets go. :) )
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,161
    stever said:

    Even below average cars are pretty good these days. Drove the Dodge van to San Diego last week and its got a 168,000 miles on it.

    (I know, I know, it has about 2,000 good miles left before something lets go. :) )

    When my FIL passed away, we inherited his early 90's Subaru wagon with 140,000 miles on it. I did some minimal maintenance on it, then drove it 1100 miles from Denver to LA to give to my son as a graduation gift. Got 30 MPG on the trip.

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  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    stever said:

    Even below average cars are pretty good these days. Drove the Dodge van to San Diego last week and its got a 168,000 miles on it.

    (I know, I know, it has about 2,000 good miles left before something lets go. :) )

    Have you heard about @28firefighter experience with his "below average" Mexican-built GTI? Doesn't sound "pretty good" to me.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    Interesting that German built GTIs have been 'below average' on CR for years, while the Mexican-built Golfs scored better, IIRC...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    stever said:

    Even below average cars are pretty good these days. Drove the Dodge van to San Diego last week and its got a 168,000 miles on it.

    (I know, I know, it has about 2,000 good miles left before something lets go. :) )

    True but not everyone is willing to drive a death trap. :p
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    How's that MINI holding up Shifty? B)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Good! Purrs like a mashed cat!
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    edited October 2016
    texases said:

    Interesting that German built GTIs have been 'below average' on CR for years, while the Mexican-built Golfs scored better, IIRC...

    That's true, Germany couldn't build a reliable car in the 20th Century. Luckily, we are in the 21st Century! :smile:

    Are any modern day GTI's built in Germany. The only one I know of is the Golf R. The Golf R is built in Germany and unfortunately, CR probably won't get enough data to verify my theory that you get a bit more quality in the hometown arena.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Tesla Fights Back!

    Tesla claims that the Model X problems are now "mostly solved".

    http://bgr.com/2016/10/27/tesla-model-x-reliability-issues/

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    Tesla Fights Back!

    Tesla claims that the Model X problems are now "mostly solved".

    http://bgr.com/2016/10/27/tesla-model-x-reliability-issues/

    Given how long Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep has been battling their problems, I take Tesla's assurances with a grain of salt. Anyway, the X, even when working right, makes me scratch my head and ask 'why'...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    They operate more like Apple than GM---the "wow" factor sometimes turns into the "not now" factor.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited October 2016
    In addition to autonomous driving features, it appears that Tesla is adding short-range flight capabilities.

    Come Fly With Me



  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    That is too funny - maybe a 'Dukes of Hazzard' wannabe?
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    In addition to autonomous driving features, it appears that Tesla is adding short-range flight capabilities.

    Come Fly With Me



    I'd settle for a Turbo Boost Jump feature ala Kit in Knightrider! Now that would be a great way to pass a left lane camper!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    Latest Edmunds update on their X is an eye-opener. Here's all the problems, this time:

    "According to Mike Schmidt, we let some minor issues pile up before taking our Model X in for service. It took the shop nine days to sift through our 16 line-item invoice. Tesla Santa Monica did an excellent job of keeping us updated on its progress and addressed all of our concerns. All work was covered under warranty.

    The complete list of items:
    1. Replace key fob battery
    2. Reposition A/C condenser pipes and replace desiccant bag
    3. Inspect front halfshaft (no replacement needed)
    4. Adjust front door glass and belt seal to reduce wind noise (Service Bulletin 16-45-001)
    5. Chassis and subframe inspection for reported shudder (no issue found)
    6. Calibrate door drive units and update firmware to remedy door power-assist issue
    7. Replace center console assembly to remedy broken cupholder door
    8. Confirm reported HVAC rattle (considered normal)
    9. Replace outer belt seal to correct window operation
    10. Apply Krytox to remedy driver seat creak while long-term solution is determined
    11. Replace trunk floor cover due to broken handle
    12. Replace broken Apple lightning dock connector
    13. Replace outer belt seal, which fell off
    14. Perform an MCU diagnostic check following occasional screen freezes (system operating as designed)
    15. Replace/calibrate right front window regulator after window reportedly would not go down when in open position
    16. Replace applique seal on the side roof pillar and adjusted front windows to remedy report of excessive wind noise"
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I was reading that list. What I found interesting is that 25% of the complaints were decreed as "normal", including screen freezes, rattle in the HVAC system, a complaint about a half-shaft (what's that about?) and a shudder in the chassis----all of which would drive me bananas.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    Man, if a German car behaved like that, there'd be torches and pitchforks. OK, if a German car after its first year behaved like that, there'd be torches and pitchforks (and no massive tax breaks).
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I know, I don't get it. Some folks are so forgiving of say mediocre food at a trendy restaurant or a crappy $12 movie. Perhaps it has to do with the high level of expectation going in, and the desire not to feel disappointed?

    I'd be all over Tesla about this.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Toyota recently announced a big battery facility and a focused research center as well, so Lexus will probably have a competitor in the next few years, and some of the German's too. That may well bring the Tesla chapter to an end.
  • rmeislerrmeisler Member Posts: 1
    Instead of going electric, I think the solution to the mileage problem is to build gas powered cars that are much, much more compact, safe, and weigh less than half of the new cars sold. today. People will just have to get out of their two ton SUV monsters that burn lots of gas and carry little.. Most driving needs can be accomplished with small cars
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    It's a posing thing - like wearing a $50K watch that doesn't keep accurate time. It's not about function, a lot of it is about being seen. There's also a massive cult of personality behind musk, and a lot of over-monied douchebros worship him. They will forgive a lot of sins to feel like they are part of a movement.
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    I know, I don't get it. Some folks are so forgiving of say mediocre food at a trendy restaurant or a crappy $12 movie. Perhaps it has to do with the high level of expectation going in, and the desire not to feel disappointed?

    I'd be all over Tesla about this.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Why Teslas will eventually win.

    "In 2014, Auto Dealerships – New placed 4th on the BBB’s list. Auto Dealerships – Used placed 6th. And while I’m at it, Auto Repair and Service ranked 10th. Not all of that complaining was directed toward dealership repair facilities, but no doubt, some of it was."

    Virginia Gives Tesla’s New Sales Model a Faint Green Light (customerthink.com)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    Tesla truck?

    Can't wait for the tax gift to expire.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    An F-150 killer is in Elon's master plan. (Teslarati)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    I'll believe it when I see it. I doubt most actual truck users (as opposed to suburban posers) can deal with the logistical difficulties of EVs.

    I have to believe the brand will sell well in VA though, lots of money floating around esp after the 125BN Pentagon waste boondoggle has been exposed :)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2016
    Well, the real takeaway of the article for me is that Tesla is the first company with pockets deep enough to de-entrench the automobile dealer associations and they may be able to open the floodgates to other direct manufacturer car sales and the holy grail, cars from Amazon.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    edited December 2016
    I still don't see how the (educated, attentive) consumer will win, when negotiating is (we can assume) removed from the process. With one seller, prices can only go up. The dopey extra fees will remain and maybe even expand. It'll be another case of what is working against the establishment becomes an establishment.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    That's fine - that'll just push the Uber/subscription/autonomous/why even own a car? model ahead.

    Plenty of people use Price Promise, Costco, USAA, True Car and no-haggle dealers to avoid the hassle and they don't mind paying more for the convenience. It's not that unusual to read posts about people buying a car by email or text any more either.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    That's fine? That's an opinion. If people are unprepared or timid or simply in a hurry, they are free to pay sticker + ADM, or go to Costco or USAA as you mention. But it shouldn't limit options for the rest of us.

    Autonomous lololol, some really want to keep that dream alive. It's eons out in the future, at best.

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    You still often have that inconvenient problem with this sale model though - the trade-in.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    fintail said:

    I'll believe it when I see it. I doubt most actual truck users (as opposed to suburban posers) can deal with the logistical difficulties of EVs.

    I have to believe the brand will sell well in VA though, lots of money floating around esp after the 125BN Pentagon waste boondoggle has been exposed :)


    The truck idea sounds like more of Musk's Mars nonsense.

    As for the Tesla dealer issue, there have certainly been "factory stores" sprinkled throughout large cities in the U.S, owned and operated by the car makes themselves, and generally they are quite successful.

    If you don't think people will pay extra to "get out of hell", consider how successful the airlines have been with that type of business model.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    Many definitely will, but in this context, it too easily opens the doors to a world where we are all forced into a more-expensive dumbed-down purchasing experience. Then again, lowest common denominator seems to be the way of the future - just drive around for half an hour and see.
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    they are quite successful.

    If you don't think people will pay extra to "get out of hell", consider how successful the airlines have been with that type of business model.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Tesla + "Autonomous" Driving + cell phones = carnage.

    Cars really aren't that hard to drive yourself. 12 year olds growing up on farms have managed this task quite well for decades.
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,161
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    Tesla + "Autonomous" Driving + cell phones = carnage.

    Cars really aren't that hard to drive yourself. 12 year olds growing up on farms have managed this task quite well for decades.

    Yeah, but there wasn't much to hit on the farm other than the barn, Bessie the cow or a fence. :smile:

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    If you put dad's tractor into a ditch, you'd wish all you got was a ticket.
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,161
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    If you put dad's tractor into a ditch, you'd wish all you got was a ticket.

    :laughing: Yeah, you'd be told to go pick the switch you'd get beat with.

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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    That's fine - that'll just push the Uber/subscription/autonomous/why even own a car? model ahead.

    Plenty of people use Price Promise, Costco, USAA, True Car and no-haggle dealers to avoid the hassle and they don't mind paying more for the convenience. It's not that unusual to read posts about people buying a car by email or text any more either.

    I have bought most of my vehicles by phone or email. I want hard numbers in my hand when I walk into the dealership. I have no problem flying to pick up a vehicle if it saves me money. I also want a dealership close enough to take care of warranty issues. I don't worry that I have bought from one and use another for warranty service. The dealer I bought my Toyota Sequoia from was gone 6 months after I bought. Their warranty service sucked anyway. That was for absolute certain my last Toyota. I really like my VW Dealer. I will be sad if I have to give up my Touareg TDI.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    This is intriguing, but will it work? Does someone on this forum have enough technical knowledge to offer an opinion?

    http://autoweek.com/article/green-cars/could-contact-lens-tech-deliver-breakthrough-electric-cars
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    I tried reading up on how supercapacitors work, got a headache, and gave up!
    So my answer is 'who knows'?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I wore contacts for 30 years.....
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    If anyone's curious, have at it:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercapacitor
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