Lexus IS 350 and IS 250

grylexis300

it is not about insecurities when people like me talk about the competition. get real. i have heard that overused and boring line many times over. sit back and think about this. Lexus is kicking the crap out of the makers of your car in almost every dept. except for this entry level segment. what else is there to talk about??? we want to see this romp come into fruition. geez. i want the new IS to finally take down the vaunted king of entry level sedans (it is even the king of engine fires).

but let's face it folks. car and driver magazine will compare the IS250 against the G35 and 325i. the G will win. they don't want the IS350 to possibly take down the 330i. we know all the other cars don't have a chance. seriously.

grylexis300

the host wants us to talk about the IS. here we go.

i have no idea what the new IS is really going to be like but you all can count on it being just as good in many areas and even better than the original. we can already see it looks better to older folks and the interior is more "grown up" and luxurious.

THIS IS FOR YOU DEWEY!!!! because i am so insecure about my car.

"THE IS300 BEGS TO BE PUSHED TO ITS LIMITS, AND ANSWERS WITH RAZOR-SHARP RESPONSIVENESS." -MOTOR TREND, SEPT 2000

"THE COMBINATION OF RIDE QUALITY AND HANDLING, WHICH ARE USUALLY AT ODDS WITH ONE ANOTHER, WAS EXCEPTIONAL." -TURBO AND HIGH-TECH PERFORMANCE, AUGUST 2000

"POWER? OH YEAH, PLENTY OF THAT." -CAR AND DRIVER, JULY 2000

"ITS THE BEST COMBINATION OF A SPORT/LUXURY CAR WITHOUT BREAKING THE BANK." -AUTOWEEK, SEPT 2000

"ON A MOMENT'S NOTICE HOWEVER, THE ENGINE TRANSFORMS ITSELF WITH A FERAL SCREAM AND LAUNCHES THE CAR WITH NECK-SNAPPING AUTHORITY." -SPORT COMPACT CAR AUGUST 2000

"THE SUSPENSION WAS PRIMED FOR ALL WE THREW AT IT-QUICK 180 DEGREE TURNS, AN EARLY APEX, A LATE APEX EVEN TURNS UNDER HEAVY BRAKING WERE CONQUERED WITH EASE." -TURBO AND HIGH TECH PERFORMANCE AUG 2000

"THEN THERE'S THAT WONDERFULLY SMOOTH ENGINE WHOSE 215 BHP AND 218 LB-FT OF TORQUE ENABLE THE IS300 TO SQUIRT FROM APEX TO APEX WITH EASE." -ROAD AND TRACK AUGUST 2000

"HAS LEXUS UNLEASHED A LEGITIMATE POWER PLAYER IN THE ENTRY LUX SPORT SEDAN SEGMENT WITH ITS NEW IS300? YOU BET." MOTOR TREND SEPT 2000

"THE BRAKE SYSTEM STACKS UP AS WORLD-CLASS, THE THRUST OF THE STRAIGHT-SIX IS GRATIFYING INDEED, AND AS YOU'D EXPECT OF A LEXUS, THE PRICE OF ADMISSION INCLUDES FIRST-CLASS SEATS AND A TERRIFIC AUDIO SYSTEM."

AS WE WITNESSED IN OUR MOUNTAIN DRIVING LOOP, THE LEXUS IS300'S BRAKES ARE ABOUT AS GOOD AS THEY COME, STOPPING THE CAR FROM 60MPH IN ONLY 113FT-4 FT SHORTER THAN A FERRARI 360 MODENA." -MOTOR TREND, SEPT 2000

i think the new IS is going to be received just fine don't you think????

wale_bate1

Benz manauals? As Shifty has pointed out, they're Benz. Regular rules simply don't apply. Rightfully so says I.

Important to note all the press that the grey Lexus guy quotes. It's all true. I know firsthand.

So here's the point: the new car is longer, wider, heavier and comes with less grunt in its "base" format. Even if they've carried over the excellent handling characteristics of the gen1, it's going to be a slower car.

To turn around and say "yeah, so what, you can get the 350" won't cut it, as A) no manual for the diehards or press, and that jumps the cost of admission considerably from the just-under-$30K Lexus has pegged as the base price. And adding all the gadgetry may please some of the LS and ES driver types (who BTW won't be buying one), but does nothing to improve the driving experience in the least.

This is the air of disappointment here. Nobody (well, nobody with a brain) is saying it can't possibly work in the market. Many are saying it is now much more of a long shot. Personally, I'm saying they apparently aren't delivering on the promise and premise they palmed to the press. Oooo, I rather like that...

blueguydotcom

when you drive the new IS what do you want out of it that the current car cannot provide???? smoother ride?? quieter ride?? tight steering?? you obviously don't like the way the current IS drives which is puzzling to me because i don't think there is much of a difference between it and any other car in the segment.

Steering is heavy on the current car and is has zero power (in my view). The car doesn't feel nimble or tossable and is in no way exciting to me. Not a fan of the stigma attached to the car either. Sort of an Integra with a Lexus badge.

I want the new one to have a symbiotic balance between man and machine. No electronic nannies getting in the way. i direct the car, it responds and it does so with bluster and gusto. I want it to hustle. I slam my foot down in 2nd gear and I want the car to leap forward as if it were oprah chasing the last twinkie at a crowded party. Corners should be eagerly eaten up, with the car cornering at it's apex easily and slingshotting away.

Road and track says the IS is exciting, easily the most tossable and nimble car and that was against the 330i. other people have different opinions but i guess to each his own.

Magazines, IMHO, are worthless rags. Sorry but I don't trust car, food or movie critics as all of those are too subjective.

i have driven loaner ES 300's, camry's, accords, acuras. man the current IS300 just blows all those cars out of the water when it comes to putting a smile on my face.

Sure but those cars are all FWD blvd cruisers.

the steering is super, the braking, the handling, the pick up. i mean sure it is no boaty ride but how can ANYONE feel like the current IS is vastly inferior to any car in its class??

In its class I'd take a G35 or an A4 before an IS.

the new IS will be no different. the differences will be so minute between all these cars it all comes down to looks and what lexus does better than all the other guys which i won't say again.

What? That makes no sense. The car is bigger in every way, totally difference chassis, totally different engine and totally different suspension. The car should be quite different. How the car looks is not the least bit relevant to my liking it.

wale_bate1

Interesting magazine thoughts. I tend to disregard the ones that utterly defy my personal experience. As such, CR is usually at the top of my "don't know, don't care" list!

I find the steering in the IS a shade cleaner and more accurate than the 325iT I compared against. Certainly, overall, the car is more fun to drive, and definitely more tossable, which is most of why it followed me home. As to the brakes: aside from Porsche, nobody's got better ones. This is an undeniable strong suit.

Hopefully all that will carry over.

Interesting C&D quote on the GS430, which, as we all read from Lexus, was supposed to usher in a new era of sporting emphasis from Lexus:
"But even though the GS430 is, according to division manager Denny Clements, "the fastest Lexus ever built," it doesn't seem to be the kind of car we associate with red mist and seeking out the long way home. As luxoid sports sedans go, its message seems more attuned to the cerebrum than to the viscera..."

From the same article with regard to the GS300 AWD:
"All told, the GS300 AWD provides a driving experience that's exactly what we've come to expect from Lexus: creamy, competent, and quiet, augmented by beautiful interior appointments and celestial sound. None of that adds up to passion, at least to us. But for most prospective buyers, that won't matter..."

Kind of points at the disappoinment many of us anticipate (perhaps wrongly so, but I doubt it) with the new IS. They will have focused on making it more of a "Lexus", which is absolutely contrary to what we were hoping for, and not something Lexus really needs anyway...

nippononly

that Toyota is just beginning to forget what it is to make a great sporting car for the masses. Sure, it can build race cars (and race trucks!), but can it build a great sporty road car?

There was SO MUCH hype about the new GS being the new image of a "sportier and more luxurious" Lexus. I think they nailed the additional luxury, but it seems the new car is hardly any sportier than the old car. Most professional reviewers agree. The new one is selling much better than the old, but I think that is just because of better looks this time around (and perhaps people badly wanted AWD in this segment too, I dunno).

But I hope that when the time comes for instrumented professional testing of the new IS, we won't find that in fact Lexus has dulled the edges too much in an attempt to become "more luxurious".

wale_bate1

Is it really selling that much better, Nippon, or is that against LY sales numbers? LY numbers would be for a well-aged outgoing model with a heavy dose of (press release-inspired) new-model anticipation!

I wonder how well it's doing against the '98 MY sales.

I'm with you in hoping they haven't screwed the pooch with the IS, and that testing will validate some of the decisions. I just can't see it from the numbers.

[sigh]

alpha01

pulls pretty strong numbers, according to Car and Driver, its just doesnt speak to its driver as does a BMW (although in their recent comparo, the 5 series placed 6th and the GS430 placed 3rd of 8 models)....

The numbers also corroborate Lexus' own acceleration times (which bodes well for the IS's claimed acceleration times):

Brake Torque 0-60: 5.7 seconds
Street Start 0-60: 6.1 seconds
30-50 Pass: 2.9 seconds
50-70 Pass: 3.9 seconds
Standing Quarter: 14.4 @ 98 MPH
0-100: 15 flat
Skidpad: .85g
Top speed: 149 MPH (governor limited)

FWIW, those times are only a few ticks off the M45 Sport, which bests the Lex by 35 hp.

IMO, Lexus is still the marque to go for in terms of luxury, and the performance aspect now exists as well. Its just not as vocalized in focused driving machines like BMWs. (Note: C/D's "Highs" for the GS included "Excellent performance".)

Given what Lexus has said, I'm hoping that the IS continues with a harder edge than the GS, and if so, it promises to be a very excellent driving machine, and overall package, manual transmission on the 350 not withstanding. Have I the money, sign me up.

(Its interesting to note the compromise one must often make when considering Benz and BMW vs. Lexus. A well optioned GS430 hits 55K, and the competing 5 series is the 530, with a 6 cylinder powerplant. For the vast majority that drive automatics, the power may just outweigh the incremental involvement offered by the BMW in its handling prowess. Likely, a similar situation will call to play when the IS350 debuts with 300+ hp, and the BMW 3 series soldiers on with its 255 hp engine).

~alpha

wale_bate1

The performance numbers are there, Alpha; that's not in question really. It's driving experience. Granted, for the type of customer I think it's less essential for the GS to appeal in that manner, but we were led to believe by Lexus that these new sedans would be different; aimed at rejuvenating the demographic for the company.

This is why buying strictly by the numbers is a fool's game, IMO, and why I reserve final judgement on the IS until I can abuse one courtesy of Lexus. But the indicators are not good here. If the GS was (as we were told) supposed to represent a dramatic shift toward a younger/sportier philosphy aimed at some BMW money, it would seem they're goofing.

The 430 really isn't at issue here; bulk of GS experiences will be 300's. I'd expect the 430 to evidence the excess for which it was developed in the first place!
[-}

lexusguy

As I've said before, my main problem with the GS is what Lexus hyped it up to be. When you start making all these public "BMW's goin DOWN" quotes about your new car, and it doesnt measure up, it just leaves a bad taste. Clements should've been less boastful about the GS's BMW killing abilities. It cant kill a BMW. It cant even seriously injure one. The new car is an excellent evolution of what the GS has been since '93. BMW might be worried, but its not the GS that they are worried about. The GS competes with the RL, and maybe the E class. Oh, and if Lexus doesnt do something to fix the VDIM system in the IS, expect enthusiasts to hate the car.

alpha01

Fair enough arguments, wale_bate and lexusguy, but my point was more toward that the Lexus offers an overall package, where the BMW concentrates on one aspect of a vehicle. I understand that perhaps the GS shouldn't have been billed as a BMW killer.... but, given a certain price point, where overall packages are concerned, that's exactly what the GS, RL, and Infiniti M did in C/D's test. The point spreads werent even close.

When it comes down to it, is the BMW loyalist really going to stray from that paradigm? Personally, I dont think so. If Lexus has moved more toward the Lexus experience with the new IS as opposed to the old one (which was an oddly charasmatic vehicle for the line), so be it; It will probably be a wildly successful move. Its up to us consumers to see through the PR bunk.

~alpha

lexusguy

I agree, Japan continues to offer significantly more bang for the buck than Germany. In the past, this fact would be buried somewhere in a sentence or two. Something like "well, the driving cant measure up to the Europeans, but the value of this car is hard to ignore". Then of course the Germans would own the podium finishes. Whats happening now is Japan has essentially caught up to Germany when it comes to the driving part (maybe not QUITE BMW yet, but at least up to Mercedes and Audi) while continuing to bring value and features to the table that Germany cant match. The G and the new IS will most likely lose a comparison test to the new 330i. However, if the M is anything to go by, the next G may have what it takes to take down BMW's ultimate driving machine.

wale_bate1

Well, I'm certainly not about to say it's not a great car (never having driven it, you understand), even though it appeals to me in no way. But taken as an indicator of philosophy, I just don't think the review bodes particularly well for the IS, and seems to reinforce some of my fears about the direction of the model and the company.

They had one offering that bucked the Lexus paradigm and has delivered substantial smiles for me, and that seems in danger of being overly gentrified instead of merely refined.

We shall see.

I really think it's a mistake to view the IS's characteristics from a GS, LS or ES vantage point or through that filter. They (Lexus) simply don't need any more of that.

stickguy

What, yuou don't like a system that can completely shut down the car in a tight corner, when it gets all confused about what to do?

I agree that the system should be made less intrusive (note, I'm basing this on test reports, I don't have experience with it myself) in the IS if it is going to pass for a sports sedan.

blueguydotcom

Street Start 0-60: 6.1 seconds
30-50 Pass: 2.9 seconds
50-70 Pass: 3.9 seconds
Standing Quarter: 14.4 98 MPH


Most worthless numbers on earth...the top gear passing numbers. What sort of an idiot going 30 attempts to pass in top gear? If I'm going 30 that's a drop from 3rd (no way I'm in 4,5,or 6 at only 30 mph) to 2nd (assuming I'm not already in second). As for 50, that's 4th gear to 3rd...and I'm good to 90 mph.

when the IS350 debuts with 300+ hp, and the BMW 3 series soldiers on with its 255 hp engine).

When are you guys gonna accept a simple 235 hp BMW does 0-60 in under 6 seconds? Why the heck do they need 300 hp if they can match the supposedly more powerful G35 (300 hp) and TL (270 hp) right now? Silly, silly, silly. [B]For the last time, horsepower is one element that plays into performance.[/b]

alpha01

Um, what? For automatics, the top gear passing that Car and Driver does means that the cars DO kick down to lower gears. So for this test, its pretty meaningful, given that each of the $55 cars tested HAD AN AUTOMATIC.

Think about it- how would C/D do this test in top gear for automatics that dont feature some type of manumatic function? That makes no sense. So they're not useless.

Facts are good. Assumptions, bad.

~alpha

blueguydotcom

alpha, i've seen there little 30-50 top gear tests on manuals too. it's ludicrous.

as for doing it with a automatic, well the car is worthless in those instances, so any derived numbers are pointless. :P

Actually, if we get down to it, the magazines are worthless.

alpha01

Thats nice. The point remains the test was of automatics, which kick down. You drive a manual, and disagree with the test. Thats fine. But how can you call the magazine worthless, when without it you wouldnt be able to validate the degree to which manuals are so much better than automatics? :shades:

If expert opinion and instrumented testing matter not to you, how can you rationalize posting on this thread, which is just us consumers? And if the consumer opinion matters not to you, you certainly spend a lot of time debating the completing irrelevant.
:P

~alpha

alpha01

Yea, consumers operate in a vacuum where brand loyalty is not a factor. Sorry, consumers may not be paid through advertising, but people have definite allegiences and to call consumers unbiased is a gross overestimation of our ability to separate emotion from a purchase that exacts so much of our hard, individually earned pay.

A guy is hired by CD and now he's an expert? holy moly.
Compared to me, someone with a mechanical engineering degree, years experience in the automotive industry and/or racing experience.... is most certainly an expert.

Don't really think their instrumented testing is all the reliable. Too many variations and really no concern for good data, imho. And you're basing this on?

Magazines (and websites like Edmunds) are bought and paid for whores who kiss the butts of established leaders, sing the praises of companies/people who are nice to them and never tear cars apart. And Consumer Reports fits into this???

~alpha

mikegiller

"Oh, and if Lexus doesnt do something to fix the VDIM system in the IS, expect enthusiasts to hate the car."

Lexus has already stated that the VDIM will be present in the IS350, however it will be much less intrusive and will be able to push the limits of the car while providing some extra stability.

I, however, believe that it is ignorant to claim that Lexus is ALREADY in the wrong direction and is doomed simply by what we already know about 1 car. There are more pieces to the puzzle in the box besides the GS...c'mon.

BTW what is torque braking?

alpha01

Did I say torque braking? I meant brake torquing. My bad.

~alpha

mikegiller

"The G and the new IS will most likely lose a comparison test to the new 330i."

Again, I find it hard to believe that we can assume the nature of one model given another's driving characteristics... the lexus IS is not even released yet; have you test driven it? :surprise: I think the most fair thing to do is wait and see... am I the only one who thinks so? All i know as of now is that it is a beautiful car, not trying to imagine how it drives or anything by previous models... a completely different car they have made...

mikegiller

I would like to know what either one is I might already know, however do not know what the terminology is. Thanks

blueguydotcom

Agreed, about test driving. i'll sure put the IS350 through its paces...and ask the silly salesguy if he has a good stomach before taking it out. Not much is worse than getting out on a drive and discovering you've got a nervous nelly twit in the passenger seat. I didn't ask for you to come along, Capt. Tweed Jacket, I just want to drive the car. Ya got my license and my car, so it's likely i'm coming back.

alpha01

Well, then, I agree with you regarding consumer opinion, but I was thoroughly confused initially, due to your poorly chosen wording. :P

However, I think its only normal that machines operate within variences, and that accounts for much of the differences between instrumented test data amongst the publications.

I love these forums

~alpha

mikegiller

I'm almost 100% positive that the salesman does not come with you at a lexus dealership. My father test drove an LS430 a few weeks back and the salesmen did not come along for the drive so I think you are in luck :P It however, may be different in your area. I'm hoping the best for you... I noticed that you had test-driven automatic cars in the past on your list of cars you have tested so I guess it is fair for you to give the auto IS350 a chance; you never know what you end up liking.

lexusguy

Brake torquing is essentially what it sounds like. Its the automatic transmition version of a hard launch. What you do is mash the brake pedal with your left foot, and use your right to rev the engine against the torque converter. When you release the brake, its kind of like droping the clutch on stick. Neither is particularly good for your car.

mikegiller

Thank you very much. That is exactly what I had thought.

tomjava

Shift paddle is fast enough to merge or pass on the freeway. If you're going to race track, than another matter.

maxhonda99

Wow! Almost 2,100 posts, and the car isn't even out yet!

Lexus must be doomed!

cybersol

Wow! Almost 2,100 posts, and the car isn't even out yet!
Lexus must be doomed!

Yeah, especially since 1000 of them are about the lack of manual transmission and another 500 are about BMW's :P

Sorry, couldn't resist adding some humor here, cybersol

maxhonda99

So how many posts you think we'll hit before the car even comes out?

I say 4,000! And of course 2,000 will be about blasting Lexus for not offering a manual transmission.....1,000 will be about how weak the IS250 is without anyone even driving it....and another 1,000 will be about BMW or how the IS should be a like a BMW!

jrock65

"Wow! Almost 2,100 posts, and the car isn't even out yet! "

About half of that must be over bickering about lack of a manual on the IS350 though.

oac

10,000 posts by the time we hit October. And 8000 of them will be about the lack of a manual IS350, 1000 will be about how BMW will kick the IS350s behind, and how the auto rags will hate the new IS350/6A. Another 500 will be about how Lexus promised one thing and delivered another. Finally, the rest 500 will be about the new IS itself.

Of course, this proportional representation of every IS lover and hater may change depending on how the host manages the forum going forward.

I guess you can see my frustration at so much pontification of how this car has already failed to live up to some people's expectation, when the car has 6 months to get here.

alpha01

So far, its everything I want to see, at least on paper...

~alpha

wale_bate1

On paper, it's disappointing the the ever-loving poop out of me, but being who and what I am, I'll wait to drive it before I buy the nails for its coffin!

Those 500 about the IS itself; those don't have to be love-in hug-shows do they? Sure sounds like it to me...
[-P

maxhonda99

Well, personally, so far the IS250/350 has been, overall, more than I expected from Lexus!

Personally it's got best in class interior and exterior styling, it's got the features, and the engine/transmission for me. Don't need no stinkin' AWD on the IS350. Even in NJ I get around just fine with good old RWD.

lexusguy

The IS is definitely a car that brings conversation.

gee35coupe

before it's intro and it bombed. Although I don't think the IS will do that, it has to be mentioned that as with that car, most of the posts came from the same 15-20 people. Hardly a representation.

oac

Those 500 about the IS itself; those don't have to be love-in hug-shows do they? Sure sounds like it to me...

And those that bash the IS350/6A are then what ? Haters-club ?



The emotions evoked on this forum is all good. Means Lexus is doing something right afterall. All I and other like-minded posters are saying is that we should debate the merits/demerits of this car with a caveat: that this car is not yet in production, nor on dealer lots, nor have any one besides Lexus testers had a chance to put it through its paces. No need to bash it when so little is known about this car.

nippononly

I very much like what I see so far, vis-a-vis the IS250. The only thing I would like to see is a price at the same level as another fine 200 hp player in this segment, the TSX. So, say $27K. Maybe give the Lexus an extra grand for being RWD, so $27,995 would be the base price I would want to see. And if it really comes in at $29,995, that is not TOO far off the mark.

The 330i has been magic for years and years with a 225 hp 3L engine. This IS will have almost the same power and cost thousands less, in addition to having typical Lexus quality, one would expect. A good proposition.

lexusguy

I'm getting the impression that you are comparing an IS250 to the outgoing 330i. Thats not really a good idea. 225hp yes, but the 3 series is MIGHTY quick for those numbers. It still holds its own against a 280hp G and 270hp TL. An IS250, especially in automatic form, will get thoroughly spanked by the outgoing 3. Even if the difference in rated hp is only 20 horses or so.

The TSX is a much more valid comparison.

cybersol

I thought I would finally chime in with my thoughts after seeing the Geneva and NY pictures, specs, and video. The exterior styling of the new IS is amazing in pictures. The car looks mean and athletic, especially the front view. The rear looks pretty good overall, and in comparison to all the ugly rear ends in new cars these days it looks absolutely magnificent. Looking at the outside, the only concern that comes to mind is how the sexy shape will affect rear seat head room.

The interior styling looks way better than the old IS interior. Yet, somehow, in making it so different from the current interior they went a little too far towards simplicity. I like how the flush mounted buttons look smooth and organic, but I think they might be hard to distinguish by touch. The grips on the door handles are unique, but don't appear very functional. The gauge cluster too looks so simple and straightforward as to be a little boring. I love the paddle shifters! Overall, the interior styling looks a lot like the current Honda Accord, only I would prefer the whole package presented by the Accord's interior. However, I like the IS's interior better than the Camry or Avalon.

From the specifications, the IS appears to be much more 3-series sized than TL or G35 sized. Also, by the numbers the IS350 will have a great engine. If Toyota did not sacrifice low end power and torque to achieve those numbers by making the engine too peaky, then it will be as good as any current generation 3.5L 6 cylinder engine can be. The availability of mid-luxury features and options in the entry level class is also very nice, but I bet those options will really add up like BMWs and Mercedes.

The jury is still out on pricing, but expect around 30k for a base IS250 and 45k for a fully loaded IS350. Also, still unknown is how it drives. Lexus has proven with the current IS that they can tune a suspension to handle IF they want to. In truth, I am more concerned about all the electronics (VDIM, electronic braking, etc) overly interfering with the whole package.

Enjoy, cybersol

grylexis300

gosh!!!! i have a car for you blueguy. it is called the M3.

"in its class i'd take the G35 or an A4 before an IS."

G is fast but i don't know how you can say the steering and handling are superior. holy cow. i have driven the G35 and it can't put a bigger smile on my face than the IS does. and from a sports standpoint give me a break. you must be 50 and over blueguy. G35 coupe is nice, real nice but something happened to the sedan. those headlights are terrible and no fogs??? yikes. taillights?? those are butt ugly too. interior?? people rip on the IS??? wow. at least it looks like a sports car inside. i mean the steering wheel, the seats, the pedals, the gauges, this isn't a subaru!!!!!!! geezz

A4??? you mean the 1.8T??? 170hp. that is a real rocket. i am sure it out slaloms the IS too. it's got the sporty look though. after all these are sports sedans.

grylexis300

this is a boxing match dewey!!! it is the 10th round, the new IS is coming around the corner, it will sell more just on its more mature look alone. not everyone is into track times and drop clutch starts and professionally timed 1/4 miles and all this gratuitous car jargon being spit out by enthusiast fanatics that want to really own a M3 but can't afford one. so anyway, it is the 10th round, your boys are taking a beating by lexus just hoping the IS won't ever ever deliver that knockout blow after the beatings they've taken already from the RX, ES, LS, and GS. they are hoping also the new GS cools off in sales. they are hoping consumer reports stops recommending EVERY single lexus automobile for goodness sakes. holy macaroni!!!! they are hoping the hybrid cars don't get them in the 11th round. they are hoping japanese quality spirals into the doldrums and their cars suddenly start catching on fire. they are hoping they make it to the 12th round. hoping.

my crystal ball says the IS250 will be slow as dirt but the IS350 is going to be the new king. it has got 300 horses and it sure as heck isn't going to drive like a camry.

mariner7

"From the specifications, the IS appears to be much more 3-series sized than TL or G35 sized"

Considering that new M is bigger but handily outhandles new GS, smaller size doesn't mean better handling. IS shares the same platform with GS, a platform that has not proved it's the equal of Infiniti FM platform.

dewey

" they are hoping they make it to the 12th round. hoping"

I will let you wait for the 12th round and while you wait I am just going to buy the car that suits my family/winter/ thrill needs simultaneously.

My bias towards a car with 3 initials is not because I wear Lederhosen(which in fact I dont) or dislike Sushi(which I like a lot) but it is because of a sport wagon. Lexus canned the IS sport wagon idea. That Bavarian company I was talking about will be introducing a 330xi wagon(perfect for my needs)

So what about a IS/3 series sedan argument? grylexis300, I say pick that fight with someone else. I have enough blisters on my fingers from my past posts related to that matter. In fact I still have a bitter taste in my mouth after that bar-room brawl in this forum a few days ago. Thankfully Kirstie cleaned up some of the mess(the broken bar stools and glass).

Kirstie_H

Yup, and some members are receiving messages by e-mail that their posting privileges have been revoked in this topic. Watch what you post, folks - I'm not going to go on a delete-a-thon every morning, and my patience is thin. I'm just going to continue to ban those who continue to carry-on off-topic conversation.

This includes continued discussion about vehicles other than the Lexus IS.

nippononly

I am looking at the IS250 in terms of its own merits. If it is not as fast as the outgoing 330i, that is fine, as long as it is a well-balanced, sporty package. And there is no way I would consider the automatic. It is three pedals all the way for me.

I am more about premium compacts than M3-beating performance. That is why my eye was drawn to the new Jetta when it first appeared, although that is just too slow in 2.5L form, and too expensive in 2.0T form. (and I hate turbo lag)

I can't imagine the 250 being slower than the TSX - more torque and better off-the-line traction with RWD. And I have enjoyed the TSX the couple of times I have had one for a day.

stickguy

The IS is peaking my interest, the same way the TSX did, but more so becasue of the RWD.

But, looking at sticker on the current IS, a new one might end up being too high to consider. I would want a fairly base IS250 (manual), with a moonroof being the only essential item, but that probably will require some kind of premium package. Or, they will just order them all loaded.

If "my" IS is running toward 34K MSRP (I think the current style was about 32K when I looked at them a few years back, it would be much more of a stretch, and face much stiffer compitition.

Now, a stipper with a moonroof at 28-29K might be too tempting to pass up, even without a sportcross configuration.