Standard Equipment - SmartAccess with push-button start - Optitron Instrument Cluster - Power Tilt/Telescopic Steering Wheel - Steering-wheel-mounted Cruise Control, Audio and Display Controls - Bluetooth® technology - 10-Way power seats with memory for driver and passenger - Wood and/or Metal trim interior - Dual-Zone Automatic Climate Control - Mini Plug accessory connector - Illuminated Scuff Plates on door sills - AM/FM/CD, 13-speaker audio system - Ten airbags, including a first-in-segment double knee airbag
Optional Equipment - Ventilated Front Seats with multistage fans - Touch Screen-Voice Activated DVD Navigation System - Mark Levinson Premium Surround Audio System - Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) - Intuitive Parking Assist - Rain-sensing Windshield Wipers with Headlamp Washers - Power rear-window sunshade - XM® Satellite Radio capability - Lexus Pre-Collision System (PCS) - Intelligent Adaptive Front Lighting System (I-AFS) - Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management System (VDIM).
There is no doubt in my mind the balance is changing with the new styling from IS, the most powerful engine in the class, and the even closing gap among all near-lux Sport car segment. The fact is, even if BMW still hold an edge in term of handling, it is an ever shrinking one. It is already arguable among the 3/G35 debate. Meanwhile, the IS is leaping in terms of Styling and Power and Luxury and safety and feature on top of the Lexus Quality and Image. One can be sure, also in term of handling. Has the BMW 3 major change really changed anything significant? Has the Lexus IS major change changed anything? If you are looking at that angle, the balance between the two is drastically changing, in the favor of Toyota. Does IS needs to handle the same level as BMW 3 to beat BMW 3? Of course not, because by then, IS will be beating BMW in every catagory and it is not even fair to compare the two.
I think most of those features/options have been posted before.
Basically, they sound exactly like the option list for the GS, which is why many people are guessing that the IS350 will be pricy.
Here is what those options cost on the GS300, and the option prices will probably be the same or very similar for the IS350:
- Moonroof: $1000 - Ventilated Front Seats with multistage fans: $200 - Adaptive Front Lighting + Rain-sensing Wipers with Headlamp Washers: $525 - Intuitive Parking Assist: $500 - Power rear-window sunshade: $210 - XM® Satellite Radio capability: $400 (dealer installed on the GS) - DVD Navigation System + Mark Levinson Premium Surround Audio: $4030 - Lexus Pre-Collision System (PCS) + Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC): $2800
Options total: $9665
The base price of the GS300 is $43,550.
Seeing as how the IS350 will have ALL the standard features of the GS300 ($43,550 base), and in ADDITION will have 55+ more horsepower and VDIM, I'd say that $36,000 base price is pretty optimistic. Even at $36,000 base, a fully loaded IS350 will be nearly $46,000.
However, most IS350s will probably not have PCS, since the vast majority of GS300s do not.
They haven't really said what the sport package is, so don't hold your breath. If it's like the LS430 sport package, just 1" bigger wheels and slightly firmer suspension, they may price it like a LS430 also at about $200 more.
Makes perfect Marketing sense, imo. Capturing BOTH important features of the new IS - more power, and standard 6-MT. How can Lexus lose given that scenario ? I think it is meant to quiet everyone - we give you a manual shift tranny, and hey, we also give you MORE power as well.... shows they are serious about competing in this segment.
Marketing sense is to promote both within the same car! 1) 6mt and 2)more power within the same car!
In the case of the IS you have to buy a IS250 and IS350 to accomplish the above combo! Most people I know would rather buy one car with all the features they want!
I thought I stated it quite succinctly above. Marketing is about putting emphasis on what you want your buyers to focus on, not what they think you are selling. In the case of the new IS, the IS250 caters to the el-cheapo buyer (call them value buyers, if you must). For a lot less power, you get a car you can option out to your price point, and if you so desire some sporty ride with a stick, so be it. And seeing that Lexus expects to sell 75% of the new IS in this level, they pretty much have given the market what they most desire at an affordable price (I hope so). For those who desire more power and luxury and ride quality, you can opt for the higher performance IS350, at a much higher price point. Much fewer buyers are going to opt for this car relative to the IS250, so Lexus wins cos this car is gonna sell out anyways. Sure you may not get a stick or AWD, but that's about it. No car gives you everything, gotta make compromises, buddy. That's life....
"No car gives you everything, gotta make compromises, buddy. That's life..."
There is no such thing as compromise with the wide selection of cars in the sport sedan market. No need to compromise when you have the Infiniti G35 and BMW 3 series.
No need to compromise when you have the Infiniti G35 and BMW 3 series.
Really ? If these cars give ALL buyers everything they want, then why buy any other car ? Meaning: we all do have different needs in our automobile choices, and sometimes we just have to make compromises. Life is full of compromises..... And in your case, dewey, if the IS250 or IS350 does not meet your needs and you would not compromise, there are plenty of choices out there, like the G35 or 3-series, where YOU get all that YOU want. Which would make complaining about the IS moot !
No car offers everything. That's a fact. We are all different and each of our desires and /or needs are different. Anyone who wants to dispute this reality is only trying to instill their desires and/or needs on someone else. My definition of a desirable feature may not be the same as an other person's definition. What may be acceptable in terms of interior or exterior styling for me may not be acceptable for you. Where an IS 250 auto may be ideal for me may be too weak for someone else. These are indisputable facts. You can, however, argue what is important to you. Individuals with the same desires will agree. Those that don't will oppose the claim. Forget what the car mags say. Their agenda is, for the most part, predetermined. Have any of them actually purchased a vehicle? Who pays their salaries ? It makes me wonder if some of these car companies actually own (fully or in part) these car mags. Have any of you actually seen how the winners in categories are determined? Most of the points are calculated using subjective criteria. It's based on personal preferences. In some cases it's an end to justify the means. They do provide a valuable service but it is not unbiased. I prefer to let the buying public determine which vehicle best suits an individual's needs. To conclude.. it is impossible for one car to offer everything to everybody (even for those looking within the same category). What I'm (me not you) looking for is the best balanced vehicle within the catagory.
speed speed speed. if you really care so much about it.
i can take that IS250 at say 35K (almost loaded), supercharge it, it will still be thousands cheaper than a 330i, it may not outrun any of the top cars but it sure won't be with the sisters of the poor either. geeeeeezzz.
with some of the prices being charged by the IS competition you'd think that none of those cars would be catching on fire, being recalled, steering problems, myriad other quality control issues. holy macaroni!!!!!!!
G35 at almost 300hp will not be low 30K what kind of crappola is going on here???? wow!!!! i guess that G is going to be stripped down to its bare frame. no options, base rims, cheap tires from goodyear, etc.... you guys must know the IS now has a premium stereo system with in dash cd changer standard. i mean the thing is kick [non-permissible content removed]. the new IS will have more speakers and i am sure a equal if not better sounding system. this is just one aspect of how great lexus is.
here is one for you. look at a lot of 323 and 325's running around. look at the rims on those cars. they look almost plastic looking. they turn black and dirty in like a day i think. look at the base rims on the G35. none of these rims have any sparkle to them at all. no flash. BORING!!!! look at the rims on a A4. five spoke and not even as refined as the graphite polished ones on the IS. the z rated tires, the nice 5 spoke rims on the IS are all about putting the sport with sedan. i don't know about 75% of all the other cars running around with no sport suspension, cheaper tires, and plain jane rims. can you smell compromise?? AND MOST of those cars still cost more if not the same as my IS (and i didn't get a giveaway deal like the ones going in some parts of this country). well, a loaded 1.8T A4 might be cheaper but at 170hp i'd hope so.
who are we kidding anyway??????? the next IS no matter how you think it drives or whatever the mags say will be hands down the best value again again again. i mean, get over all the subjective areas like it feels slow, it feels this to me, it doesn't look good here, the tail pipe is butt ugly, the windows look too small for me, i am 7 ft and it is too small a car for me and all this other mumbo jumbo. hands down it will be priced cheaper than the three letter car or very competitively. it will offer all the goods OBVIOUSLY. it may not be that M3 test drive you took the other year but it sure as heck won't be a hyundai sonata, a subaru, a accord, a camry like drive. for its price i think it will be safe to say it will be a WORTHY car. and MOST OF ALL. it will come with the PROMISE of that lexus reliability. NONE of the top guns will be able to match the engine quality but then again miracles have happened before. yeah sure.
we know the value will be there. if you don't like the drive than who cares??? like i said before, if you think the IS250 will be too slow buy a more expensive car that is faster, i'll buy the IS250, supercharge it, it will still be a inexpensive car in this class, it will have all the goods, AND it will be plenty fast enough. and who really cares if this car will be able to do well on the SLALOM AND SKIDPAD??? the much maligned IS300 did very well on all these runs in the mags if not beat everyone in some comparos and nobody really gave a damn.
NONE of the top guns will be able to match the engine quality but then again miracles have happened before. yeah sure."
While I share your enthusiasm on the IS, your dismissing some great motors far too easily. The J35 in the TL and the VQ35 in the G have quite the reputation and are consistently praised in the buff rags, along with the BMW inline 6. There is no Miracle about it.
Lexus has to match the quality, refinement, NVH and smoothness of some top guns, not the other way around. I'm confident that the new IS motor(s) will be gems otherwise.
The problem is we're dealing with 2 classes of cars here. The IS200/350 will be slightly smaller then the GS and thus regardless of the options cannot go for the same price. Lexus can't charge too much for the IS otherwise no one would buy it. They would get a GS. Yes some people buy based on power but others buy based on options or value or size or any other of 1,000,000 other reasons.
I think a fully loaded IS350 will probably range from mid/high 30's and top out at 40-43k max.
IS200 - will probably be priced similar to the current IS (won't offer all of the options available in the 350) IS350 - will be priced at a premium, but not exceed the base of the GS300.
The thing that is different about the IS350/GS300 relationship is that EVERY feature that is available on the GS will be available on the IS.
The M has many features that aren't offered on the G. The E has many features that aren't offered on the C. Same with the 5 and the 3, and the A6 and A4.
In objective terms, the ONLY objective thing that a loaded GS300 has over a loaded IS350 is room. That's it. In features they are the same. The IS has more power, better handling (almost certainly), and a better stability control (VDIM vs. VSC).
Maybe the IS350 will have lower grade materials and a lesser Levinson system. Who knows.
Lexus/Toyota appears to have issues with their automatic trannys. Despite the software solution(there is no gurantee)---a IS350 with a manaul stick would be a guarantee against this hesitation problem.
Well, reality is it's not a great driver's tranny to begin with (from the Camry), and it's set up for cush. Reprogramming my help some, but really the shifts should be hardened up a tad.
Isn't the new one a six-speed? Maybe they'll take a lesson from Benz...
Certainly a manual would cancel that issue. Assuming of course that the driver gets the downshift right. [-)
After just seeing some of the photos in the currents car mags I am very impressed with the styling in 2D. It looks like it has all of the competitors beat to my eye and of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
The new IS will have an impact on the new BMW, no question about it and will steal many sales away from the Infiniti G35 also.
The IS is sophisticated and sporty with a very nice interior. BMW seems to be cheaping its interiors starting with the new X3 which is an embarrasment in my opinion.
And finally having owned many of the brands the Lexus service experience is second to none. BMW is losing its styling edge and I am not crazy about the new 3. Kind of non descript to my eye, an assembledge of my different cars with the rear resembling an old Infiniti.
at the dealer to sit in the GS (very nice BTW) and aska bout the IS. Salesguy said they expect them in Oct. That sound about right?
THey did have a nice slideshow on a PC in the showroom. I think it was pictures from the auto show, but there were a lot of them. Pretty neat idea for them to have.
The sales guy did lose some points when he opined that the base model would have 250 HP (maybe the IS250 name confused him!).
But, he did say that it would be much nicer and more "lexusy" (my word) than the current model. He pretty much said to expect a scaled down GS, which isn't a bad thing, if they give it better handling.
bpraxis, in what magazine did you see the pictures of the IS coupe. The only pictures that I've seen of the coupe were the prior IS photos on the Edmunds Future vehicles link, that was up until they posted the photos of the IS from the auto show when it was unveiled. Was there any hinting or indication of the pricing of the coupe. The coupe will be introduced in what I consider "unchartered waters". Lexus might have been able to market it directly to the G35 coupe, which IMO is the best coupe for your money under $40k, and they would outprice alot of people (myself included) if they were to price the coupe at the same price level as the SLK350, in the low to mid $50's. If the coupe did not have a hard top convertible, then I could easily see the IS coupe be price very close to a G35, maybe $1k to $3k premium for lexus vs infiniti. I know mostly everyone has their eyes set on the sedan when it comes out in October, my heart is set on the IS coupe (even though I think the IS sedan looks beautiful and I may end up settling on it because of my expected price of the high $40k for the coupe).
With regards to the comparison to the IS vs. the 3 series, expect a Car and Driver or Road and Track article sometime toward the end of the year comparing the IS350, 330i, C350, G35, X-type, and CTS (just like they did recently with the M45, GS430, STS, S type, E320, and 530i. I think we are all in agreement that the IS will be coming in first, unless Lexus doesn't do what Lexus does best. I would think the G35 would come in 2nd, and then followed by the 330i.
if Lexus does what Lexus does best, the new IS will be reliable, comfortable, quiet, well-built, gadget-infested, incredibly boring to drive and will lucky to beat out the X-type and C350 in that test. The concern among current IS fans is that that is exactly the direction that Lexus is heading with the second generation IS.
Lexus doesn't need a baby GS. Not now, not ever. They need what they have in the current IS (ie a car that is a joy to drive) only tweeked a bit on the refinement factor.
That's if Lexus does what Lexus (historically) does best. They might surprise us, and we keep that in the back pocket for later, we IS fans. But the indicators aren't particularly good.
Here comes some telepathy. Last place: X-type. If they bother to include one. For whatever reason they keep bothering to include an S-type though, so I guess they probably will.
I forgot to mention those 2 cars as well. I also agree that Lexus does make a rather dull car (take the LS430, arguably the best large size luxury sedan and most people will agree that the car doesn't blow you away with any attributes), but just by looking at the hp# (over 300 and over 275 Ib feet of torque), makes it the most powerful engine made by Lexus today, even surpassing the LS430 and the LX470. I think Lexus (Toyota) might just get this car right. My own two knocks on the current IS are size and power, and it appears as if Lexus has addressed those two items. I think we have a true winner on our hands here, the IS will be rock solid.
Lets hold off on the applause until we've driven it. Heck, how 'bout until at least a review is written?!
Pricing will be one key area as it appears the car will be fairly high priced for little power in the IS250. And the price jump from IS250 to IS350, will it be small or akin to the jump from GS300 to GS430? That's a 7k leap! If they do something like that, wow, we're talking the IS350 would base at 37k.
The car could be great. Just ease off on the rabid obsequiousness, m'kay?
I'm wondering about the engine start button in cars equipped with manual tranny. I've seen it with automatic but not the manual. Would it work in similar way, tranny in neutral and foot on the brake or what? :confuse:
The LS isnt a sports car. It doesnt pretend to be. However, if I were going to drive from say NY to LA, the LS430 would be my choice, period. Heck, if Mercedes NAV couldnt find its way through M-B town in the CEO's CAR, there's absolutely no way I'd trust it to get me through Nowhere, Kansas. The RX gets the most sales, but its the LS that is the literal execution of Lexus' "passion for perfection". The car simply works, day in and out, 100% of the time.
Let's keep the LS conversation in the LS topic, and stick to the IS in here. We're not really ready for comparisons yet as NO ONE has driven this vehicle!!
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Just guessing, but it probably has a clutch interlock like a lot of sticks, so you can't start it with the car in gear.
Also, read the C&D comparo test last night that included the GS. Overall, very positive, but they did complain about the overly intrusive VSC system. Hopefully the one in the IS is dialed-back, otherwise it won't do well with the real hard-core performance drivers (the ones that really like the tossability of the current model).
Actually its VDIM. VSC is the carry over technology that is in GS300 and will be in IS250. The GS430 and IS350 have the new VDIM system. It has met with A LOT of heat from the press in the GS. The IS's version is supposedly a little more lenient, we'll see.
The problem here is that for a current IS lover, they haven't addressed much at all, other than cosmetics. The direct replacement IS250, dollar for dollar and pound for pound, is larger and less powerful than the car it replaces. More heft and less power doesn't add up to a gain in my mind, and no increase in cush is going to compensate. It looks a little better on the outside, and the inside is more coherent, but that wasn't where the bread was buttered.
That means focusing on the IS350, which is in point of fact, a different car at a higher price point. And for some, most especially the press I think, the lack of manual on that model will kill the sale. Actual sales figures on tranny prefences matter not one bit.
In short, the un-Lexus entry tasked with bringing new (younger) blood to the Lexus fold has apparently evolved into a much more Lexus like entry that appeals more to the (aging) old guard.
Pet peeve here: what moron buys a compact sport sedan for backseat room in the first place? Ponder carefully mes enfants... }-]
I'm hoping these systems don't hurt the cars overall tossability as well. In the winter months, great, but I hope there will be an override for the dryer weather days By the sounds from the commercials, the GS exhaust note is simply intoxicating, and I would love to see (actually hear) that nice smooth refined note make its way into the IS as well.
"More heft and less power doesn't add up to a gain in my mind, and no increase in cush is going to compensate. It looks a little better on the outside, and the inside is more coherent, but that wasn't where the bread was buttered."
I disagree.
The IS300 sales tanked due to a myriad of problems, chief of which is the interior appointments (smallish, un-Lexuslike, etc), and a not that appealing exterior skin also. Its handling and performance was all there against the very best in its class, yet it sold abysmally.
The new IS250 may be slower than its replacement IS300, but it more than makes up for it in its beautiful interior and exterior appointments. The 2nd gen has truly grown up, and should do well in the market as long as the pricing is not that overly aggressive. With the laundry list of options typically found in other higher-end lux cars, these new IS twins will pack a big punch when they do arrive here.
Most owners seem to like the C6 manual start but there are some quirks with the radio system like interference from a cell phone within inches of the transmitter, having one of your transmitters too close the the car when parked (unlocks your car). Not really start button related but a quirk, is having to park the manual in reverse to keep the battery from going dead (there is an audible warning if you don't leave the car in reverse).
The majority of the reports I have read seem to indicate that saying good bye to the traditional key is a positive experience.
I should know more at the end of May if/when my C6 gets here.
I have to respect your opinion, oac, but you need to acknowledge your point of view which is anchored on a very Lexusish vista! Your chief concerns here are comfort and doo dads. Throw in reliability (chanted repeatedly as a mantra), and the journey to the typical Lexus dark side is complete! [-)
They will in fact increase sales over the current model by offering two to start and more to follow, but unless the 250 not only handles every bit as well as the existing but also has some punch hiding inside those numbers that we don't know about, "enthusiast" interest will be off I think.
"The IS300 sales tanked due to a myriad of problems, chief of which is the interior appointments (smallish, un-Lexuslike, etc), and a not that appealing exterior skin also."
I disagree with your disagreement!
Your view of exterior/interior aesthetics greatly differs from whom the IS was targeted to: Individuals(not boy-racers) who wants a small agressive looking vehicle with a emphasis on agility, handling and performance. The styling reflected that! Some professional racer(forgot his name) assisted Lexus in the interior design and the design was meant to excite/thrill not to sedate and cushion with frilly luxury!
"The new IS250 may be slower than its replacement IS300, but it more than makes up for it in its beautiful interior and exterior appointments"
More beautiful luxury interior and exterior appointments with options found in higher end cars like a GS/LS ? In that case why dont we raise the white flag and call the IS a mini GS wannabe.
Regarding luxury I have news for you! Luxury is dead!!! I dont know if you are an avid reader of obituaries but the latest facts I read are the following:
Rolls Royces and Maybachs cannot find enough customers!
Ferrari, SLR McLaren, Lambroughinis have waiting lists measured in years!
The Toyota Highlander Hybrid has a waiting list that isfar longer than its Luxury Breathen called the RX400h.
To disprove my point---Give me one Luxury car/vehicle that has a long waiting list(other than the 400h which is popular due to its hybrid tech).
The fact is cars/vehicles with long waiting lists are cars/vehicles that emphasize agility/handling and performance! Luxury is dead! R.I.P.!!!
Well now, some of that sounds a bit extremist, but certainly I think even a Solstice will create a waiting list of actual paying customers, while I have some doubts about the IS...
I do respect your opinions, as well as Wale_'s, but I must disagree with your disagreement of my disagreement, lol !
"...Individuals(not boy-racers) who wants a small agressive looking vehicle with a emphasis on agility, handling and performance. The styling reflected that! Some professional racer(forgot his name) assisted Lexus in the interior design and the design was meant to excite/thrill not to sedate and cushion with frilly luxury!"
And the IS300 sold what ???? If the design addressed the needs of the buying public, why did this car have so pitiful sales ??? Is the IS300's failure accounted for by (a) not meeting the standards of a Lexus-badged car (whatever that is) ?, or (b) not meeting the needs of the target market ?. Somewhere in these two lies the answer, imo. No one disputes how good a handling car the IS300 is. No one disputes it competes well with its peers. So why did it fail so much ????
Regarding your *dead luxury* point. I fail to see this. Those cars you list - Lambo, SLR, Ferarri, etc... are exotic cars, not luxury cars. There is a huge difference. Maybach was an ill-conceived venture by MB, hence its miserable failure. And Rolls Royce is a long-in-the-tooth marque anyways, whose heritage has long washed off, so no news there.
The Highlander hybrid is going to be cheaper and seats more (7 vs 5) than its RX400h brethren. Don't you think that impacts buyers interest ?
As for the IS250, Lexus has addressed its biggest areas the predecessor lacked - exterior and interior designs. If priced right, despite its heft and slow-footedness, and as Wale_ states, it does not compromise in the handling and agility dept., then this car will succeed where the IS300 failed. Add in the other variants coming, and the spacing of refreshes in 18 month increments, you have a different business model from the new Lexus, that is brilliant and destined for sucess.
Comments
[-)
- SmartAccess with push-button start
- Optitron Instrument Cluster
- Power Tilt/Telescopic Steering Wheel
- Steering-wheel-mounted Cruise Control, Audio and Display Controls
- Bluetooth® technology
- 10-Way power seats with memory for driver and passenger
- Wood and/or Metal trim interior
- Dual-Zone Automatic Climate Control
- Mini Plug accessory connector
- Illuminated Scuff Plates on door sills
- AM/FM/CD, 13-speaker audio system
- Ten airbags, including a first-in-segment double knee airbag
Optional Equipment
- Ventilated Front Seats with multistage fans
- Touch Screen-Voice Activated DVD Navigation System
- Mark Levinson Premium Surround Audio System
- Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC)
- Intuitive Parking Assist
- Rain-sensing Windshield Wipers with Headlamp Washers
- Power rear-window sunshade
- XM® Satellite Radio capability
- Lexus Pre-Collision System (PCS)
- Intelligent Adaptive Front Lighting System (I-AFS)
- Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management System (VDIM).
"Well, that depends on how Lexus Canada wants to package the base IS250. But this is the list they release in Geneva a few weeks ago:"
Has the BMW 3 major change really changed anything significant? Has the Lexus IS major change changed anything? If you are looking at that angle, the balance between the two is drastically changing, in the favor of Toyota.
Does IS needs to handle the same level as BMW 3 to beat BMW 3? Of course not, because by then, IS will be beating BMW in every catagory and it is not even fair to compare the two.
Basically, they sound exactly like the option list for the GS, which is why many people are guessing that the IS350 will be pricy.
Here is what those options cost on the GS300, and the option prices will probably be the same or very similar for the IS350:
- Moonroof: $1000
- Ventilated Front Seats with multistage fans: $200
- Adaptive Front Lighting + Rain-sensing Wipers with Headlamp Washers: $525
- Intuitive Parking Assist: $500
- Power rear-window sunshade: $210
- XM® Satellite Radio capability: $400 (dealer installed on the GS)
- DVD Navigation System + Mark Levinson Premium Surround Audio: $4030
- Lexus Pre-Collision System (PCS) + Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC): $2800
Options total: $9665
The base price of the GS300 is $43,550.
Seeing as how the IS350 will have ALL the standard features of the GS300 ($43,550 base), and in ADDITION will have 55+ more horsepower and VDIM, I'd say that $36,000 base price is pretty optimistic. Even at $36,000 base, a fully loaded IS350 will be nearly $46,000.
However, most IS350s will probably not have PCS, since the vast majority of GS300s do not.
Notice I didn't even add in the Sport package, which will probably be at least $1500, to those prices.
When they mentioned the 350, they trumped up the "over 300HP".
What was interesting was the reference to the IS250:
"The IS250 features an all-new 6-speed manual transmission"
Apparently, the manual has some marketing value over at Lexus, as that was the extent of the IS250 credits in the release.
Here's to the promotion of the manual tranny!
DrFill
Where is the marketing sense?
Marketing sense is to promote both within the same car!
1) 6mt and
2)more power within the same car!
In the case of the IS you have to buy a IS250 and IS350 to accomplish the above combo! Most people I know would rather buy one car with all the features they want!
I think so.
Where is the marketing sense?
I thought I stated it quite succinctly above. Marketing is about putting emphasis on what you want your buyers to focus on, not what they think you are selling. In the case of the new IS, the IS250 caters to the el-cheapo buyer (call them value buyers, if you must). For a lot less power, you get a car you can option out to your price point, and if you so desire some sporty ride with a stick, so be it. And seeing that Lexus expects to sell 75% of the new IS in this level, they pretty much have given the market what they most desire at an affordable price (I hope so). For those who desire more power and luxury and ride quality, you can opt for the higher performance IS350, at a much higher price point. Much fewer buyers are going to opt for this car relative to the IS250, so Lexus wins cos this car is gonna sell out anyways. Sure you may not get a stick or AWD, but that's about it. No car gives you everything, gotta make compromises, buddy. That's life....
There is no such thing as compromise with the wide selection of cars in the sport sedan market. No need to compromise when you have the Infiniti G35 and BMW 3 series.
Why compromise?
There are plenty of cars that offer everything, it really depends on what your definition of everything is and how deep your pockets are.
Really ? If these cars give ALL buyers everything they want, then why buy any other car ? Meaning: we all do have different needs in our automobile choices, and sometimes we just have to make compromises. Life is full of compromises..... And in your case, dewey, if the IS250 or IS350 does not meet your needs and you would not compromise, there are plenty of choices out there, like the G35 or 3-series, where YOU get all that YOU want. Which would make complaining about the IS moot !
Yep. Name me one car that offer everything... Just one car, please...And I can tell you what this car has that I DO NOT WANT...
i can take that IS250 at say 35K (almost loaded), supercharge it, it will still be thousands cheaper than a 330i, it may not outrun any of the top cars but it sure won't be with the sisters of the poor either. geeeeeezzz.
with some of the prices being charged by the IS competition you'd think that none of those cars would be catching on fire, being recalled, steering problems, myriad other quality control issues. holy macaroni!!!!!!!
G35 at almost 300hp will not be low 30K what kind of crappola is going on here???? wow!!!! i guess that G is going to be stripped down to its bare frame. no options, base rims, cheap tires from goodyear, etc.... you guys must know the IS now has a premium stereo system with in dash cd changer standard. i mean the thing is kick [non-permissible content removed]. the new IS will have more speakers and i am sure a equal if not better sounding system. this is just one aspect of how great lexus is.
here is one for you. look at a lot of 323 and 325's running around. look at the rims on those cars. they look almost plastic looking. they turn black and dirty in like a day i think. look at the base rims on the G35. none of these rims have any sparkle to them at all. no flash. BORING!!!! look at the rims on a A4. five spoke and not even as refined as the graphite polished ones on the IS. the z rated tires, the nice 5 spoke rims on the IS are all about putting the sport with sedan. i don't know about 75% of all the other cars running around with no sport suspension, cheaper tires, and plain jane rims. can you smell compromise?? AND MOST of those cars still cost more if not the same as my IS (and i didn't get a giveaway deal like the ones going in some parts of this country). well, a loaded 1.8T A4 might be cheaper but at 170hp i'd hope so.
lexIS rulz.
we know the value will be there. if you don't like the drive than who cares??? like i said before, if you think the IS250 will be too slow buy a more expensive car that is faster, i'll buy the IS250, supercharge it, it will still be a inexpensive car in this class, it will have all the goods, AND it will be plenty fast enough. and who really cares if this car will be able to do well on the SLALOM AND SKIDPAD??? the much maligned IS300 did very well on all these runs in the mags if not beat everyone in some comparos and nobody really gave a damn.
While I share your enthusiasm on the IS, your dismissing some great motors far too easily. The J35 in the TL and the VQ35 in the G have quite the reputation and are consistently praised in the buff rags, along with the BMW inline 6. There is no Miracle about it.
Lexus has to match the quality, refinement, NVH and smoothness of some top guns, not the other way around. I'm confident that the new IS motor(s) will be gems otherwise.
I think a fully loaded IS350 will probably range from mid/high 30's and top out at 40-43k max.
IS200 - will probably be priced similar to the current IS (won't offer all of the options available in the 350)
IS350 - will be priced at a premium, but not exceed the base of the GS300.
The M has many features that aren't offered on the G. The E has many features that aren't offered on the C. Same with the 5 and the 3, and the A6 and A4.
In objective terms, the ONLY objective thing that a loaded GS300 has over a loaded IS350 is room. That's it. In features they are the same. The IS has more power, better handling (almost certainly), and a better stability control (VDIM vs. VSC).
Maybe the IS350 will have lower grade materials and a lesser Levinson system. Who knows.
Lexus/Toyota appears to have issues with their automatic trannys. Despite the software solution(there is no gurantee)---a IS350 with a manaul stick would be a guarantee against this hesitation problem.
Isn't the new one a six-speed? Maybe they'll take a lesson from Benz...
Certainly a manual would cancel that issue. Assuming of course that the driver gets the downshift right.
[-)
After just seeing some of the photos in the currents car mags I am very impressed with the styling in 2D. It looks like it has all of the competitors beat to my eye and of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
The new IS will have an impact on the new BMW, no question about it and will steal many sales away from the Infiniti G35 also.
The IS is sophisticated and sporty with a very nice interior. BMW seems to be cheaping its interiors starting with the new X3 which is an embarrasment in my opinion.
And finally having owned many of the brands the Lexus service experience is second to none. BMW is losing its styling edge and I am not crazy about the new 3. Kind of non descript to my eye, an assembledge of my different cars with the rear resembling an old Infiniti.
Great time to be a consumer.
THey did have a nice slideshow on a PC in the showroom. I think it was pictures from the auto show, but there were a lot of them. Pretty neat idea for them to have.
The sales guy did lose some points when he opined that the base model would have 250 HP (maybe the IS250 name confused him!).
But, he did say that it would be much nicer and more "lexusy" (my word) than the current model. He pretty much said to expect a scaled down GS, which isn't a bad thing, if they give it better handling.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
With regards to the comparison to the IS vs. the 3 series, expect a Car and Driver or Road and Track article sometime toward the end of the year comparing the IS350, 330i, C350, G35, X-type, and CTS (just like they did recently with the M45, GS430, STS, S type, E320, and 530i. I think we are all in agreement that the IS will be coming in first, unless Lexus doesn't do what Lexus does best. I would think the G35 would come in 2nd, and then followed by the 330i.
Lexus doesn't need a baby GS. Not now, not ever. They need what they have in the current IS (ie a car that is a joy to drive) only tweeked a bit on the refinement factor.
That's if Lexus does what Lexus (historically) does best. They might surprise us, and we keep that in the back pocket for later, we IS fans. But the indicators aren't particularly good.
Mission Accomplished. Now if they would give it an outfit befitting the award ceremony :P
Next.
DrFill
Pricing will be one key area as it appears the car will be fairly high priced for little power in the IS250. And the price jump from IS250 to IS350, will it be small or akin to the jump from GS300 to GS430? That's a 7k leap! If they do something like that, wow, we're talking the IS350 would base at 37k.
The car could be great. Just ease off on the rabid obsequiousness, m'kay?
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Also, read the C&D comparo test last night that included the GS. Overall, very positive, but they did complain about the overly intrusive VSC system. Hopefully the one in the IS is dialed-back, otherwise it won't do well with the real hard-core performance drivers (the ones that really like the tossability of the current model).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
That means focusing on the IS350, which is in point of fact, a different car at a higher price point. And for some, most especially the press I think, the lack of manual on that model will kill the sale. Actual sales figures on tranny prefences matter not one bit.
In short, the un-Lexus entry tasked with bringing new (younger) blood to the Lexus fold has apparently evolved into a much more Lexus like entry that appeals more to the (aging) old guard.
Pet peeve here: what moron buys a compact sport sedan for backseat room in the first place? Ponder carefully mes enfants...
}-]
"More heft and less power doesn't add up to a gain in my mind, and no increase in cush is going to compensate. It looks a little better on the outside, and the inside is more coherent, but that wasn't where the bread was buttered."
I disagree.
The IS300 sales tanked due to a myriad of problems, chief of which is the interior appointments (smallish, un-Lexuslike, etc), and a not that appealing exterior skin also. Its handling and performance was all there against the very best in its class, yet it sold abysmally.
The new IS250 may be slower than its replacement IS300, but it more than makes up for it in its beautiful interior and exterior appointments. The 2nd gen has truly grown up, and should do well in the market as long as the pricing is not that overly aggressive. With the laundry list of options typically found in other higher-end lux cars, these new IS twins will pack a big punch when they do arrive here.
My biggest concern, for now, will be pricing.
The majority of the reports I have read seem to indicate that saying good bye to the traditional key is a positive experience.
I should know more at the end of May if/when my C6 gets here.
They will in fact increase sales over the current model by offering two to start and more to follow, but unless the 250 not only handles every bit as well as the existing but also has some punch hiding inside those numbers that we don't know about, "enthusiast" interest will be off I think.
I disagree with your disagreement!
Your view of exterior/interior aesthetics greatly differs from whom the IS was targeted to: Individuals(not boy-racers) who wants a small agressive looking vehicle with a emphasis on agility, handling and performance. The styling reflected that! Some professional racer(forgot his name) assisted Lexus in the interior design and the design was meant to excite/thrill not to sedate and cushion with frilly luxury!
"The new IS250 may be slower than its replacement IS300, but it more than makes up for it in its beautiful interior and exterior appointments"
More beautiful luxury interior and exterior appointments with options found in higher end cars like a GS/LS ? In that case why dont we raise the white flag and call the IS a mini GS wannabe.
Regarding luxury I have news for you! Luxury is dead!!! I dont know if you are an avid reader of obituaries but the latest facts I read are the following:
Rolls Royces and Maybachs cannot find enough customers!
Ferrari, SLR McLaren, Lambroughinis have waiting lists measured in years!
The Toyota Highlander Hybrid has a waiting list that isfar longer than its Luxury Breathen called the RX400h.
To disprove my point---Give me one Luxury car/vehicle that has a long waiting list(other than the 400h which is popular due to its hybrid tech).
The fact is cars/vehicles with long waiting lists are cars/vehicles that emphasize agility/handling and performance! Luxury is dead! R.I.P.!!!
{-o
"...Individuals(not boy-racers) who wants a small agressive looking vehicle with a emphasis on agility, handling and performance. The styling reflected that! Some professional racer(forgot his name) assisted Lexus in the interior design and the design was meant to excite/thrill not to sedate and cushion with frilly luxury!"
And the IS300 sold what ???? If the design addressed the needs of the buying public, why did this car have so pitiful sales ??? Is the IS300's failure accounted for by (a) not meeting the standards of a Lexus-badged car (whatever that is) ?, or (b) not meeting the needs of the target market ?. Somewhere in these two lies the answer, imo. No one disputes how good a handling car the IS300 is. No one disputes it competes well with its peers. So why did it fail so much ????
Regarding your *dead luxury* point. I fail to see this. Those cars you list - Lambo, SLR, Ferarri, etc... are exotic cars, not luxury cars. There is a huge difference. Maybach was an ill-conceived venture by MB, hence its miserable failure. And Rolls Royce is a long-in-the-tooth marque anyways, whose heritage has long washed off, so no news there.
The Highlander hybrid is going to be cheaper and seats more (7 vs 5) than its RX400h brethren. Don't you think that impacts buyers interest ?
As for the IS250, Lexus has addressed its biggest areas the predecessor lacked - exterior and interior designs. If priced right, despite its heft and slow-footedness, and as Wale_ states, it does not compromise in the handling and agility dept., then this car will succeed where the IS300 failed. Add in the other variants coming, and the spacing of refreshes in 18 month increments, you have a different business model from the new Lexus, that is brilliant and destined for sucess.