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Salesman was quite surprised when I explained our price target was $1,000 below MSRP. Once I explained I had quotes from other dealers between $800 and $1,200 off MSRP, he spoke with his boss on the phone for about 2 minutes and asked if we would sign a deal tonight at $1,000 off MSRP. We did.
MSRP $23,930. Vehicle price $22,930. Additional items: $40 doc fee (I was expecting this and didn't feel like arguing about it). Total price excluding tax/title/plates: $22,970. Salesman laughed when I told him I'd heard other dealers charging $200 doc fee. All the other costs we're paying are items that everyone pays, but the costs vary by state: license plate fee, vehicle registration fee, Michigan sales tax (6%).
Because I had done my homework ahead of time and did not try to squeeze them for every last nickel, there really wasn't any negotiating necessary. They met my number and we didn't go back and forth at all. It was about as pleasant as the negotiation part of a new-car purchase can be.
We probably could have gotten another $200-300 off the price, but I really wasn't interested in going to all the trouble. The salesman did comment that since he got there in December he has not seen a Sedona sold that far below sticker at his store. I believe him, although $1,000 below MSRP is not that hard to get right now, as our experience indicates.
Personally I would not go 7500 miles on regular (petroleum-based) oil and a single oil filter. 5,000 miles is probably safer. However, most people don't need 3000 mile change intervals. That's just too frequent, unless you really work your vehicle hard (lots of stop-and-go, short-trip city driving, lots of towing, very cold weather, excessive idling, etc.). Then, a 3000 mile change interval might make sense.
I'm curious to hear Kia's position regarding synthetic motor oil and customers changing oil themselves and still maintaining vehicle warranty. I change the oil in our vehicles myself and use Mobil 1 synthetic. I hope Kia will accept store receipts for oil and filters, along with a detailed maintenance log, as proof of proper maintenance (should I ever have engine problems).
I'd say the average Korean car loses much more than half its value in 2-3 years! Resale on Hyundai/Kia is likely to improve in the coming years, due to the improving reputations of these brands (due to them building higher-quality, better vehicles than in the past).
However, I expect Sedona to do better than other Korean cars. It's such a great value and I expect the price of new Sedonas to increase, maybe substantially, in the next 2-3 model years.
The 5 yr/60,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty should also help. Someone looking at a 3 year old Sedona with 35,000 miles knows he/she has a couple more years of warranty coverage. This is a frequent used-car buyer concern, especially with the notoriously unreliable Korean brands.
Most vehicle problems occur within the first 2-3 years of ownership. Assuming you maintain your Sedona well and have problems addressed promptly, you will likely not see a major jump in problems after the fifth year. Personally, I just bought a Sedona and I am not expecting that!
The extended basic warranty is a waste of money on a vehicle with such a long standard warranty. You're buying an extra five years/60k miles of bumper-to-bumper protection, excluding the powertrain which is already covered for years 6 through 10. Totally unnecessary, IMO.
I'd like to reinforce your comment that the difference between Sedona and other vans besides Odyssey/Sienna is likely to be much smaller. I'm guessing Sedona's resale value will do as well as Silhouette/Venture/Montana/Caravan. Comparing Sedona depreciation to Odyssey is valid, but tough, because Odyssey stomps every other minivan on depreciation by a wide margin, IMO.
Congratulations on your purchase. Sounds like you got a very good deal. What area of the country are you purchasing in, again?
And did you crawl under the car to take a look at access to the filter and the drain plug yet? I used to do all my own oil changes, then got a Civic and a Protege.....couldn't even fit my hand up in there to get to the filter! TowMeister, didn't you say you'd done an oil change on your own already?
Our 98 Isuzu Trooper is a snap to change oil/filter. 95 Ford Contour is a little trickier, but manageable.
I'm in southeast Michigan. I contacted dealers around here as well as Lansing (middle of state), Grand Rapids (west side), and Columbus, Ohio. Was willing to drive up to 4 hours if local dealer couldn't meet my ballpark price figure.
I'm at 2000 miles on the oil and will change it courtesy of JD Power which means I can do the next one at almost 10K, but six months will probably occur first, for me.
Does anyone else get the feeling Kia is briefing dealers on price negotiation processes? There surprisingly similar nationwide. 10 minutes, no squares or manager bouncing games, etc.? Don't misunderstand, I think it's a good thing - no fuss, no muss. Interesting nonetheless.
As long as new cars get more expensive things won't be too bad on the deprec front, especially considering the limited number of minivan choices in the first place. (Somewhat different in the sedan market where the number of choices is enormous.)
Also, consider that in 3 years the average cost of an EX trim minivan across all manufacturers will exceed $30K. A $23K van today with average miles in three years will still be worth quite a bit because the opportunity cost to buy a new van will be so much higher. That said, no matter what, past performance is no guarantee of future returns, and that works both ways.
1-866-542-6268, I got this information from Kia consumer affair.
I saw tha last two colors that I have not seen today, beige and tow tone red/beige. Very nice.
Yes, Marcolius, I changed my oil at 1500 miles, I plan on putting on about 100k in 4 years. At 15 to 20K I'll put the Valvoline Durablend in. Being that my unit tows alot, I plan on changes every 4-5K with the synthetic blended oil.
Bet ya that the Honda and Toyota dealers had their mouths wide open, especially how they trashed the sedona when they sell their products.
philliplc and bluedevils, thank you for your helpful opinions...Hopefully I can locate another Sedona to buy this weekend.
#2 Odyssey 10,796 in January 2002.
......and then scroll down to
#10 Sedona 2,218 in January 2002.
Ten Caravan sold for every Sedona while almost 5 Odyssey for every Sedona and someone considers the Sedona a Hot Seller?
We test drove a 2002 Kia Sedona and were impressed with the comfort, quiet and smooth ride and good performance. However, it is about the size of the Sienna, Quest, Voyager or Caravan which for some people, is preferable to the larger Odyssey, Grand Caravan, Town & Country, Windstar, or GM FWD minivans.
If Kia had the same number of dealers and the production capacity in Korea, I would venture a guess that the numbers would be significantly higher. Simple logic.
I would assume that Kia is ramping up for higher production, seeing as how it is so hard to find a Sedona right now, as evidenced by the many posts by people not being able to find the Sedona that they want. - Greg
At the risk of asking intrusive questions about your personal anatomy, do you have teeny tiny little hands, or big clumsy mitts like me? Any problems getting to the filter and drain plug? And is there a frame component right under the drain plug, like on my Aerostar, so the oil splashes all over the frame and your face when it comes out?
Thanks for the Valvoline rec, in addition to your many other useful ones. I got some Lexol at the Trak Auto right around the corner from my house. That was the easy part. Getting my orange-haired teen-age son to agree to apply the Lexol some Saturday, now that's the hard part. You ever decide to visit your nation's capital, I've got a perfect opportunity for you to exhibit your expertise.
Give me a little advance warning, I'll have the hitch waiting for you to install, too.....
And some people have the audacity to rule out buying a foreign car before even evaluating the option. Go figure.
And then, the domestic only car buyer (at least some of them) doesn't appreciate it when the foreign car buyer forces the domestic car manufacturer to improve its product to compete better in the marketplace - and vice versa. Gosh dang!
And, if you really want to make sure that your van is always at the top of that list, there's an easy way to do it - technically it's called making the opportunity cost of market entry too high - better expressed as make it better and cheaper than anybody else so it's not profitable for the other guy to even try, which in a free market economy is a good thing.
But bottom line: throwing out nonsense, misinformation (yes, you're guilty also) and irrelevance onto this forum isn't going to accomplish much except provide a momentary change in air temperature just in front of your face and get the rest of us momentarily tweaked until we realize that ignoring the blabber will be very effective very quickly.
So, forgive the humor and let's get back to the Sedona experience....
carleton1, you are welcome to continue posting here. It's a free country, and dissenting opinions and constructive criticsm are welcome. However, my opinion is that most of your posts are not based on sound logic.
I've heard that Kia's target for the 2002 model year is to sell about 25,000 Sedonas. From what I can tell, Sedonas seem to be selling within 10 days or less, usually much less, of arrival at dealerships.
The fact that most folks are reporting prices of MSRP to $1,000 less indicates that the demand is fairly high. Typically, new vehicles sell for much less than this in relation to MSRP.
This is exactly $460 less than the deal for which we signed a buyer's order on Monday night. I'm still pleased with the deal we got, but I was surprised at this offer since I wasn't even really negotiating with the salesman.
The confusing part is that the salesman said $22,470 is $200 over their invoice. Edmunds/Intellichoice/carsmart.com all show $21,260 as invoice, which leaves $1,210 unexplained. Intellichoice/carsmart.com show a $200 advertising fee, and if you count the $562 holdback via Intellichoice that still leaves about 450 bucks. Who knows.
If anyone wants the name of this dealer and salesperson in mid-Michigan, let me know. I don't know for sure if he would extend the same offer to someone else, but I don't see why not. I think this used to be an Oldsmobile-only store so they probably aren't selling tons of vehicles!
What exactly are you saying? You think minivan prices will rise faster than other vehicle categories, you think the luxury trim levels of each minivan will rise faster than other trim levels? You think that Sedona prices will rise faster than other minivans?
The third one is the one I'm expecting to see over the next 2-3 model years.
Carleton- Carlton Sheets has more class than you. Get a life, or better yet, start your own board, we can throw a few posters your way to help you get started (namely lurkers from the MPV board)
Seeley- Your mileage should be at least 20+ hwy. I get that towing 1500Lbs. Our unabashed Sedona owner survey produced 22.72 MPG highway in the winter months. Will do better with break-in periods having passed and warmer weather on the way.
I've noticed the gas gauge does seem to be a little bottom heavy in my LX. Goes down quickly from full to a bit below 3/4, then slows down a little. At 1500k I've averaged 18.6 mpg with 70% hwy, which works out to just a sliver better than the EPA estimate of 15/20. Hopefully this will improve a bit from now on.
If it makes anyone feel better, I did notice a couple posts in an Odyssey forum where owners were complaining about getting less than the EPA est. 25 mpg on the highway (said more like 23). Even if there is a difference of 3-4 mpg overall between Sedona and competition (there may not be) that only amounts to roughly $100-120/year more in fuel cost for the average driver. This amount, of course, would increase as gas prices increase. Even so, it seems like a pretty minimal amount overall to me compared to the initial savings of buying a less expensive vehicle, interest savings or investment income on the price diff., savings of not having to buy an extended warranty, etc.
Phil
Do you folks typically test-drive the vehicle before you sign on the dotted line? I think this is wise (make sure the vehicle runs right, etc.) but I haven't really done this in the past because dealers typically just want to get the deal done.
Hey, how many "original" keys should I be receiving? I know it's only one keyless remote but I haven't heard any mention of how many actual keys.
I agree with phil; my gauge seems to drop quickly from full, and then creeps down between 1/4 and E. I've filled up a couple times when it was on E, and found I still had a couple gallons in the tank. Here's how I get consistent mileage readings:
-Set one of the trip meters to 0 when you drive into the station.
-Fill the tank only to auto shut-off, don't top off. Best if it's on the lowest flow "hands-free" setting.
-Fill at the same station next time, if possible. Again stop at auto shut-off.
-Miles on the trip meter divided by amount put in on SECOND fill-up is mileage. That way you're measuring how much gas you used to drive the miles on the trip meter. Gas gauge isn't involved.
Bluedevil:
I got two keys and a remote entry device. I haven't yet asked for blanks, but I've been TOLD that you have to get the big, plastic handled ones, because there's a necessary chip in them that interacts with the car. Bummer; I usually like to keep an extra in my wallet. Saves AAA calls on occasion.
I drove mine when I picked it up, as well as doing a pretty thorough inspection. Sure they want to do the deal, but you'd rather not make a trip back for a floor mat or a door that won't close. My sales person was great; they had no objection. Even encouraged me to have my wife come by, inspect it and drive it, before signing the papers. And hey, if you decide to tow, let me introduce you to my old friend Excelent3........
I think it's a good idea to go over any car w/ a fine-toothed comb before you officially take delivery. As nice as any dealer is, it's good to keep in mind that you've got more power to get little things addressed before you take those keys. Not to say that any dealer is untrustworthy but it's usually easier to get those extras taken care of, before the dealership "forgets" they promised you some things, like a hood deflector, extra floor mats, full tank of gas, extra keys (great idea, btw!), etc.
I'm just saying this because, let's say there's a discoloration or scratch that you notice the day after you pick up the van, but not before. Chances are the dealer's going to be more willing to fix it before you've had it, and they can't say it's your fault if you haven't had the van in your possession yet. I'd hate to have them say to you, "well, maybe you got that at the mall, and it's not our fault." Since you're laying down around twenty-large, you oughta get it just how you want it before you take posession, imho.
/re-lurking...
Basically, if we agree - and this is the crux of the misunderstanding - that comparable van prices for Toyota, Honda, GM, DC run around $28K - $30K today, ballpark average, then at 3% appreciation per year for inflation alone puts the cost of such vans over $30K in 2-3 years easily.
Yes, new car prices in this category will increase (even though there is no guarantee). As such, the value calculation on the used car actually improves--- just as it decreased, dramatically recently, when the total cost of new cars dropped via the low interest financing and other incentives liberally used last quarter and the number of used cars (supply) surged.
So, new car prices will continue to increase. I do expect Kia to close the gap on price deltas between this van and others over time - wild guess is that they will settle at around 2500 less than a Honda.
I also mean that past Kia depreciation figures are not a given going forward.
Synthetic gives 1-2 mpg better gas mileage over conventional. Have never seen any oil leaks, but read of a few MANY years ago when synthetics first came out. Synthetic doesn't break down in city driving, so has my vote.
Several good checklists available on-line for folks who want to know what to look at when they buy the car. Concur with Javadoc on the "go over it well". Although dealers appear to be on the up and up, once they have your $, you are certainly at their whim.
RE a/c whine. It shouldn't. Also, if you run the a/c on "hot" or "hot" defrost, it will force the engine to warm up quicker when it runs the compressor, so you can switch to conventional heat setting. BTW, you should always run a/c (the hot setting of it is ok) at a minimum of once a month during the fall/winter/spring...whether it is hot outside or not. (That is why hot is OK) This cycles the compressor oil in the coolant, and keeps the seals lubed up. If you don't do this, you are setting yourself up for a seal leak or compressor failure as your van ages.
(Mechanic's son)
But if you even scroll up just a couple pages, $2500 over MSRP sounds like a hose job.....
And hey, mom23, when have we been anything but the soul of dignified seriousness in this forum?
I think we should continue to help people out and respond to their questions, while at the same time encouraging them to read prior posts to get more information. Referring them to prior posts is perfectly fine, too.
I wonder if demand in Florida is really that much higher that dealers can get away with charging $2,500 more than MSRP. If you can't get them to come down, then perhaps you should fly somewhere for a MUCH better deal and drive your Sedona home! For me, $1,000 or more is well worth the time and effort.
You may find that it's helpful to bring your 300 pound brother in law who's a professional wrestler. He can hold the service manager's head firmly enough against the air vent to shred his ear to ribbons, while you calmly explain how inconvenient it's been to come back for this problem so many times, and do you hear it now, sir?
Yes, Mom23, I confess. I'm kidding. Guilty, guilty, guilty.
http://www.kia.com/013002.shtml
KIA SEDONA RECEIVES FIVE-STAR SAFETY RATING
NHTSA Bestows Highest Rating on New Minivan
IRVINE, Calif., Jan. 30, 2002 –– The new Kia Sedona minivan has earned the federal government’s highest safety rating for the driver and front- and rear-seat passengers in both frontal and side impact crash tests, according to information released by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).
The Sedona received a five-star rating in both frontal and side impact crash tests, an achievement equaled by only one other 2002 model-year minivan.
The frontal and side crash tests are part of NHTSA’s New Car Assessment Program (NCAP) that provides consumers with safety information about the two most dangerous injury-causing crashes.
NHTSA tested an all-new 2002 Kia Sedona LX in a 35-mph frontal impact into a fixed barrier, which is equivalent to a head-on collision between two similar vehicles each moving at 35 mph. In a separate test, NHTSA administered a side impact to another 2002 Kia Sedona in a test that is meant to simulate an intersection-type collision. In the test a 3,015-pound barrier moving at 38.5 mph is thrust into a standing vehicle. The barrier is covered with material that has "give" to simulate the front of a vehicle, which would behave in a similar manner during a crash. In both tests, the Sedona was given the highest rating.
“The five-star rating is a great achievement and a tremendous validation of Kia’s engineering expertise,” said Peter M. Butterfield, Kia’s executive vice president and chief operating officer. “With the highest safety rating, more standard features and a powerful V6 engine, the Sedona stands out as the best value in the minivan market.”
Since its launch in August 2001, the Sedona has been a hot-selling vehicle for Kia, with more than 15,000 units sold in 2001.
The front-wheel-drive Sedona continues Kia’s tradition of well-built, high-value vehicles by including many features that equal or surpass the class leaders as well as an industry-leading 10-year or 100,000-mile limited powertrain warranty. The Sedona features a 3.5-liter V6 engine producing 195 horsepower – among the best in class – backed by a sophisticated five-speed automatic transmission, marking the first time a minivan has offered a five-speed automatic.
The Sedona is available in two trim levels, the LX and EX, both offering a long list of standard features. A base LX is priced at $18,995 making it the lowest-priced import minivan, while the EX trim level starts at a base price of $20,995, with a fully-loaded EX topping off at $24,100.
Kia Motors America is the U.S. sales, marketing and service arm of Kia Motors Corp. in Seoul, South Korea.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/ncap/Cars/2002Vans.html