Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

stickguy

T, when i was at the Acura dealer, I was eavesdropping on a conversation between a shopper and salesdude, and he flat out told the buyer that the lease on the MDX was less than the lease on a much lower MSRP RDX. Though I already knew that!

explorerx4

@abacomike,
Look at the good side, you confirmed back and knee are still bad, so no doubt.

oldfarmer50

karhill1 said:

The reality is all dealer fees are junk fees, fake fees. Dealers sell at a price. That price includes all dealer costs plus dealer profit or loss. When dealers ad a fake fee like documentation or, as comically noted above, a product specialist fee they are doing it for a couple of reasons.

First, as many have noted, is to increase profit. Dealers hope many customers will simply accept the fee and only negotiate the advertised price. The sad thing is many buyers actually fall for this scheme.

Second, dealers like to separate the actual price into two parts. That allows them to advertise a lower price and corresponding payment based on the price less fee while hiding the fee in small print. The hope, of course, is the lower amounts will draw customers to their dealership where their trained sales staff has a chance to sell.

Of course dealers use the word "fee" because they know many people will attach a false legitimacy to that word.

Consider documentation. When a person buys a new vehicle they are required to wait an interminable amount of time while the sales man or woman working in the F&I office prepares all the documents and, most important for the dealership, develops an sales approach tailored to the buyer designed to sell from a plethora of overpriced products of dubious value.

Essentially all required documents are prepared and finalized during the buyer's incarceration in the F&I office. Other than that all that is required relating to the documents is for them to be stored and sent to the MVA, usually as a group.

A curious mind might ask does this "documentation" really cost upwards of a $1,000 or more?

A curious mind might also ask why is there only a fee for documentation? Shouldn't there be a fee for utilities, wages, rent, or any other cost a dealer may incur while conducting business?

Complicit in this scheme are the many car buying sites who, for some reason, imply these fees are a legitimate business cost. Yes they are a cost but they are a dealer costs and, as such, are part of the price.

All buyers should know when they buy they pay a price. Other than that price the only additional cost they are should pay are those imposed by the government such as registration or sales tax.

Of course those lease acquisition fees are also fake, but that is another topic.

Finally, if I were to encounter a dealership who tried to steal $195 from me for a "product specialist" my laugh would be enjoyable.<

At least N.Y. in it’s over regulated wisdom capped doc fees at $75. It does make it harder to compare prices though. If a price in Florida includes a $1000 doc fee, who actually paid a lower price? That’s why when I stated my price on a recent purchase I separated out the TTL which included the doc.

I think you got it right when you mentioned clueless buyers who don’t realize all these fees are BS. With the internet it’s the only way a dealer can get over on a buyer,

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

it is that easy driver. You do the legwork to come up with a reasonable price you will pay, and shop that payment (and months/miles of course included). The rest of it, is basically irrelevant (how they get there). Residual is fixed anyway by the leasing company (captive finance).

you might not know how they made the sausage, but you really don't care since you are giving it back at the end anyway!

I think leasing is slightly easier stick....mainly because there is less room to negotiate....certain fees like interest costs are already built in (whereas when buying you can use your own lender, or pay cash etc), but, it sounds like almost the same amount of work.....fighting the dealer for the best deal possible, and being on guard to protect you from their schemes.

I don’t think you have to fight anyone any more. With rare exception today’s salesman isn’t really trying to screw with you. Just make an offer, if they reject it, head for the door. The last three new cars I bought were without drama. I can’t help but think that throwing around some of the car sales jargon I learned here made the salespeople wary of trying to snow me.

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

I don’t know about your gas pricing in your areas, but I just filled up at Costco with PUG and I paid $2.95 a gallon - 22 cents more than it was yesterday.  That’s some jump.  Last week I paid $2.59 a gallon for PUG at Costco.  Someone is making big bucks on these price increases, that’s for sure! 

Still about 26+ cents per gallon lower than the gas stations in the area

RUG in my area just passed $2.50 up 30 cents from it’s lows.

abacomike

explorerx4 said:

@PF_Flyer, What is the point of these new forums? I'm trying to understand.

I’m still trying to figure out the purpose of the old forums! 

Mr_Shiftright

They build character. Like the Marines.

oldfarmer50

snakeweasel said:

abacomike said:

I don’t know about your gas pricing in your areas, but I just filled up at Costco with PUG and I paid $2.95 a gallon - 22 cents more than it was yesterday.  That’s some jump.  Last week I paid $2.59 a gallon for PUG at Costco.  Someone is making big bucks on these price increases, that’s for sure! 

Still about 26+ cents per gallon lower than the gas stations in the area

I filled up a few days ago with RUG at around $2.50 or so a gallon. Now its $2.90.

Glad the weather is improving as the bike goes 3 times as far on a gallon of gas.

I’m glad that the new Kia gets 5 mpg better city mileage than the old PT.

oldfarmer50

PF_Flyer said:

You may have noticed some new discussions popping up on the list. We're going to revive the owners club concept, and I'd like to invite you all to participate if you feel so inclined.

After all, you all have been around here almost as long as the moderators (some of you even longer) and getting your experience and expertise involved would be great. The discussions are tagged so you can get to a list of them with no other clutter, and here's a link to Owners Clubs that can be bookmarked.

If we need to add more "clubs" to fit what's in your garage, feel free to create one or give one of the mods a yell and we can get it up and rolling.

What list, what club, what’s a bookmark?

stickguy

when it starts going back up, I just stop paying attention to the cost. Gasbuddy for the best station, and keep handing over cash until it is enough. Not driving a ton of miles makes it easier to swallow. The TLX turned 3 months old yesterday and I just cracked 1,300 miles. So not wearing it out.

driver100

abacomike said:

I just replaced my water filter on my Whirlpool refrigerator.  It takes me about 10 minutes to accomplish this task instead of 2-3 minutes because of poor design and engineering.  My model’s compartment for the filter is on the very bottom exterior under the freezer section.  This requires me to get on all fours to open the lid, pull out the old filter, put in the new filter, close the filter door, and then contort my body to get back on my feet.  Remember, I am 74 years old with a bad left knee and bad back.  Terrible design!

I SHOULD HAVE CALLED THE GUY!!!   

Good idea....call the guy or find a 10 year old kid who could do it for you. We have a Whirlpool that must be about 18 years old.....and I have to do the same thing. You would think they would find a way to make it easier than that. I hate changing that filter.
Our freezer made things so frozen I couldn't scoop up any ice cream. I kept lowering the freezer dial until it wouldn't go any lower, things are barely warm enough that I can just scoop out ice cream (really Publix Frozen Yogurt Moose Tracks) from the container.

Can get a man to the moon but can't make a filter so you can remove it and plug it in and it could be at waiste level......and maybe have a freezer that could be less cool!

driver100

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

I know about promissory notes because the SIL tried giving me one.
My lawyer said don't take it unless you have some security to hold onto...or don't expect it to be paid.

That agrees with Judge Judy's opinion.

Yes, if you think of it....the note is just a piece of paper....trying to get the actual money could be a whole other matter. Especially trying to collect from someone who almost never pays people anyway. In my SIL's case, the promissory note would be worth less than toilet paper....at least T.P. has some usefulness to it.

stickguy

our LG has the filter cartridge on the top of the fridge section (inside). So basically hanging off the roof. Much easier to get at, other than having to take stuff off the top shelf.

henryn

driver100 said:

Good idea....call the guy or find a 10 year old kid who could do it for you.

Not too many kids around my neighborhood. But I keep a six-pack of tall boys in the fridge, and I can get a quick job done for one of those.


My A/C filter is mounted in the ceiling, about 9 feet off the ground. And my balance is not so great any more, so once a month I exchange a tall boy for a quick climb up the ladder. Win-Win.

driver100

tjc78 said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

it is that easy driver. You do the legwork to come up with a reasonable price you will pay, and shop that payment (and months/miles of course included). The rest of it, is basically irrelevant (how they get there). Residual is fixed anyway by the leasing company (captive finance).

you might not know how they made the sausage, but you really don't care since you are giving it back at the end anyway!

I think leasing is slightly easier stick....mainly because there is less room to negotiate....certain fees like interest costs are already built in (whereas when buying you can use your own lender, or pay cash etc), but, it sounds like almost the same amount of work.....fighting the dealer for the best deal possible, and being on guard to protect you from their schemes.

One of our hosts coined it best recently.  Leasing is an art form.  

There are tons of things to consider when leasing.

You may want to consider also, how a more expensive car might actually cost less to lease...if the residual is worth more....something you don't consider when buying.

driver100

stickguy said:

our LG has the filter cartridge on the top of the fridge section (inside). So basically hanging off the roof. Much easier to get at, other than having to take stuff off the top shelf.

How long to change....you don't want to leave the fridge door p[en too long?
I don't know if I trust LG for the warranty or service....same with Samsung appliances.
Seems they don't have good service networks set up.

stickguy

yup. With leasing, you are just shopping price. I had a standard $1,000 DAS rule, and 36 months. 10 or 12K depending on the car. So those parameters were fixed. the only real variable was month payment. So shopping that was a piece of cake, and the MSRP of the car was not all that correlated to monthly payment.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

it is that easy driver. You do the legwork to come up with a reasonable price you will pay, and shop that payment (and months/miles of course included). The rest of it, is basically irrelevant (how they get there). Residual is fixed anyway by the leasing company (captive finance).

you might not know how they made the sausage, but you really don't care since you are giving it back at the end anyway!

I think leasing is slightly easier stick....mainly because there is less room to negotiate....certain fees like interest costs are already built in (whereas when buying you can use your own lender, or pay cash etc), but, it sounds like almost the same amount of work.....fighting the dealer for the best deal possible, and being on guard to protect you from their schemes.

I don’t think you have to fight anyone any more. With rare exception today’s salesman isn’t really trying to screw with you. Just make an offer, if they reject it, head for the door. The last three new cars I bought were without drama. I can’t help but think that throwing around some of the car sales jargon I learned here made the salespeople wary of trying to snow me.

In my experience....first they test you to see if you know what you are doing and to try and see what they can get away with. If you show them you are wise to their ways....they seem to work with you.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

PF_Flyer said:

You may have noticed some new discussions popping up on the list. We're going to revive the owners club concept, and I'd like to invite you all to participate if you feel so inclined.

After all, you all have been around here almost as long as the moderators (some of you even longer) and getting your experience and expertise involved would be great. The discussions are tagged so you can get to a list of them with no other clutter, and here's a link to Owners Clubs that can be bookmarked.

If we need to add more "clubs" to fit what's in your garage, feel free to create one or give one of the mods a yell and we can get it up and rolling.

What list, what club, what’s a bookmark?

Yeh, I went to Mercedes ownwers but how do you bookmark it?

ruking1

All those variables have varying importance/s. To me, the bottom line issue, cost per mile driven: depreciation. (Leasing vs buying, for example)

stickguy

same as any other topic. Just click to darken the little star icon and then it will show up in your bookmarks.

snakeweasel

PF_Flyer said:

snakeweasel said:

PF_Flyer said:

stickguy said:

easy for me, since both my cars are the same brand!

Some people around here might be in a couple of clubs

Since I didn't see either make we have I guess I am out of luck. 

More makes coming. Just getting started! I DO take requests Rub the magic lamp and speak a name!!

I speaketh the name "Eisenhuth".

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

PF_Flyer said:

You may have noticed some new discussions popping up on the list. We're going to revive the owners club concept, and I'd like to invite you all to participate if you feel so inclined.

After all, you all have been around here almost as long as the moderators (some of you even longer) and getting your experience and expertise involved would be great. The discussions are tagged so you can get to a list of them with no other clutter, and here's a link to Owners Clubs that can be bookmarked.

If we need to add more "clubs" to fit what's in your garage, feel free to create one or give one of the mods a yell and we can get it up and rolling.

What list, what club, what’s a bookmark?

Yeh, I went to Mercedes ownwers but how do you bookmark it?

I think it has something to do with that little star thingy under your user name but beyond that I’m lost.

venture

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

PF_Flyer said:

You may have noticed some new discussions popping up on the list. We're going to revive the owners club concept, and I'd like to invite you all to participate if you feel so inclined.

After all, you all have been around here almost as long as the moderators (some of you even longer) and getting your experience and expertise involved would be great. The discussions are tagged so you can get to a list of them with no other clutter, and here's a link to Owners Clubs that can be bookmarked.

If we need to add more "clubs" to fit what's in your garage, feel free to create one or give one of the mods a yell and we can get it up and rolling.

What list, what club, what’s a bookmark?

Yeh, I went to Mercedes ownwers but how do you bookmark it?

I think it has something to do with that little star thingy under your user name but beyond that I’m lost.

As stickguy said. Click on the star to the right of the topic name. For example, for this discussion, click on the star to the right of "Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations".

driver100

stickguy said:

same as any other topic. Just click to darken the little star icon and then it will show up in your bookmarks.

THX

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

PF_Flyer said:

You may have noticed some new discussions popping up on the list. We're going to revive the owners club concept, and I'd like to invite you all to participate if you feel so inclined.

After all, you all have been around here almost as long as the moderators (some of you even longer) and getting your experience and expertise involved would be great. The discussions are tagged so you can get to a list of them with no other clutter, and here's a link to Owners Clubs that can be bookmarked.

If we need to add more "clubs" to fit what's in your garage, feel free to create one or give one of the mods a yell and we can get it up and rolling.

What list, what club, what’s a bookmark?

Yeh, I went to Mercedes ownwers but how do you bookmark it?

I think it has something to do with that little star thingy under your user name but beyond that I’m lost.

Are you going to bookmark PT Cruiser OF?
You will probably have 2 members.

driver100

venture said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

PF_Flyer said:

You may have noticed some new discussions popping up on the list. We're going to revive the owners club concept, and I'd like to invite you all to participate if you feel so inclined.

After all, you all have been around here almost as long as the moderators (some of you even longer) and getting your experience and expertise involved would be great. The discussions are tagged so you can get to a list of them with no other clutter, and here's a link to Owners Clubs that can be bookmarked.

If we need to add more "clubs" to fit what's in your garage, feel free to create one or give one of the mods a yell and we can get it up and rolling.

What list, what club, what’s a bookmark?

Yeh, I went to Mercedes ownwers but how do you bookmark it?

I think it has something to do with that little star thingy under your user name but beyond that I’m lost.

As stickguy said. Click on the star to the right of the topic name. For example, for this discussion, click on the star to the right of "Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations".

That was a huge help...it has been so long since I did that i forgot.

driver100

I have 3 bookmarks now, C&C, Mercedes Owners, and Sales Frontlines...that one could probably be removed now.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

PF_Flyer said:

You may have noticed some new discussions popping up on the list. We're going to revive the owners club concept, and I'd like to invite you all to participate if you feel so inclined.

After all, you all have been around here almost as long as the moderators (some of you even longer) and getting your experience and expertise involved would be great. The discussions are tagged so you can get to a list of them with no other clutter, and here's a link to Owners Clubs that can be bookmarked.

If we need to add more "clubs" to fit what's in your garage, feel free to create one or give one of the mods a yell and we can get it up and rolling.

What list, what club, what’s a bookmark?

Yeh, I went to Mercedes ownwers but how do you bookmark it?

I think it has something to do with that little star thingy under your user name but beyond that I’m lost.

Are you going to bookmark PT Cruiser OF?
You will probably have 2 members.

Yeah, and both angry. I looked at the Kia list and I was the only one.

PF_Flyer

explorerx4 said:

@PF_Flyer,
What is the point of these new forums? I'm trying to understand.

They have to have a point?

We USED to have owners clubs, so we're reviving the concept. Just a place for owners of XYZ to meet and greet, a place for newbies to perhaps find things out about XYZ from people who own them, and generally spread the sense of community that we have here in Cars & Convos. Not everyone is shopping for a car. Sometimes we like to just talk about them!

PF_Flyer

oldfarmer50 said:

PF_Flyer said:

You may have noticed some new discussions popping up on the list. We're going to revive the owners club concept, and I'd like to invite you all to participate if you feel so inclined.

After all, you all have been around here almost as long as the moderators (some of you even longer) and getting your experience and expertise involved would be great. The discussions are tagged so you can get to a list of them with no other clutter, and here's a link to Owners Clubs that can be bookmarked.

If we need to add more "clubs" to fit what's in your garage, feel free to create one or give one of the mods a yell and we can get it up and rolling.

What list, what club, what’s a bookmark?

oldfarmer50 said:

PF_Flyer said:

You may have noticed some new discussions popping up on the list. We're going to revive the owners club concept, and I'd like to invite you all to participate if you feel so inclined.

After all, you all have been around here almost as long as the moderators (some of you even longer) and getting your experience and expertise involved would be great. The discussions are tagged so you can get to a list of them with no other clutter, and here's a link to Owners Clubs that can be bookmarked.

If we need to add more "clubs" to fit what's in your garage, feel free to create one or give one of the mods a yell and we can get it up and rolling.

What list, what club, what’s a bookmark?

Well, if you click on that link you get to the (still growing, not final) list of owners club discussions. There's also a link to the list in that blue navigation message at the top of each forums page.

You can bookmark ANY discussion by clicking on the star, and check your bookmarked discussions by clicking on My Bookmarks (Edmunds Forums 101)



If we haven't added your make yet, just let us know and we'll create it. If you create it on your own, just let us know. We want to keep the titles in the same format and get the right tag on it so it shows up on the club discussion list.

abacomike

driver100 said:

I just replaced my water filter on my Whirlpool refrigerator.  It takes me about 10 minutes to accomplish this task instead of 2-3 minutes because of poor design and engineering.  My model’s compartment for the filter is on the very bottom exterior under the freezer section.  This requires me to get on all fours to open the lid, pull out the old filter, put in the new filter, close the filter door, and then contort my body to get back on my feet.  Remember, I am 74 years old with a bad left knee and bad back.  Terrible design!

I SHOULD HAVE CALLED THE GUY!!!   

Good idea....call the guy or find a 10 year old kid who could do it for you. We have a Whirlpool that must be about 18 years old.....and I have to do the same thing. You would think they would find a way to make it easier than that. I hate changing that filter. Our freezer made things so frozen I couldn't scoop up any ice cream. I kept lowering the freezer dial until it wouldn't go any lower, things are barely warm enough that I can just scoop out ice cream (really Publix Frozen Yogurt Moose Tracks) from the container. Can get a man to the moon but can't make a filter so you can remove it and plug it in and it could be at waiste level......and maybe have a freezer that could be less cool!

10 year old kid?  Around here, I would be looking for years to find a 10 year old kid.  Finding an 80 year old “kid” - now that’s a horse of a different color!

oldfarmer50

I found this interesting:

https://youtu.be/V4j2aJIxppI

The Crown Vic in the video reminded me of an adventure we had at work yesterday. We were sent to a local city nearby to pick up some Crown Vics which were coming off long term lease with the police. Since I was always interested in the CV’s twin the Grand Marquis, I was eager to take a test drive.

We got to the address and went into the building to look for Sargent X. The folks there had never heard of him so we called the number we had been given and located the Sargent. He said he had been expecting us and wanted to know where we were. We told him the address we were at and he said “oh yeah, that’s only a few minutes away”. Confused that he might be at a different address than we had been given we asked exactly where he was. He answered that he was in NEW JERSEY hours away.

Evidently we had been given the right city but the wrong state. Our boss was furious but what could we do, we went exactly where we were told.

abacomike

driver100 said:

You may have noticed some new discussions popping up on the list. We're going to revive the owners club concept, and I'd like to invite you all to participate if you feel so inclined. After all, you all have been around here almost as long as the moderators (some of you even longer) and getting your experience and expertise involved would be great. The discussions are tagged so you can get to a list of them with no other clutter, and here's a link to Owners Clubs that can be bookmarked. If we need to add more "clubs" to fit what's in your garage, feel free to create one or give one of the mods a yell and we can get it up and rolling.

What list, what club, what’s a bookmark?

Yeh, I went to Mercedes ownwers but how do you bookmark it?

This coming from a guy who knows everything about books and can’t “bookmark” a discussion on Edmunds?  That’s hilarious!

PF_Flyer

snakeweasel said:

PF_Flyer said:

snakeweasel said:

PF_Flyer said:

stickguy said:

easy for me, since both my cars are the same brand!

Some people around here might be in a couple of clubs

Since I didn't see either make we have I guess I am out of luck. 

More makes coming. Just getting started! I DO take requests Rub the magic lamp and speak a name!!

I speaketh the name "Eisenhuth".

Heh... seriously, if you're in need of a club discussion for a make that's not up yet, name the make and my magic keyboard will spring into action!

stickguy

Crown Vic doesn’t look too bad for the price. Key to those cheap deals is clean it up yourself (basic prep) and always keep the same color so it doesn’t clash with the inner parts. Oh, and have low expectations.

graphicguy

So, went looking for a test drive yesterday......

stickguy

Treating yourself? Nice!

graphicguy

No...I did not buy that, although it was sitting on the showroom floor of the BMW dealership.

My trusted BMW sales person must have had a slow day. He’s aware of my Cadillac trials and tribulations, and save for him not having a car I liked when Cadillac bought back my CTS, I’d be in a BMW right now.

Anyway, I was going to be in the area and told him I’d stop by. He had this waiting for me to test drive in front of the store....

https://www.bmwofcincinnatinorth.com/new/BMW/2019-BMW-3+Series-01719d290a0d0cc758b4b122ef03e9ab.htm

houdini2

abacomike said:

ruking1 said:

Actually that’s (promissary note“) a very good application. It makes not too much sense to sell stocks or bonds for the express purpose of purchasing a vehicle.
Here are just 6 reasons.

1. Everybody is familiar with the fact that (most to all) new vehicles loses (up to 20%) value right off the showroom floor.
2. Selling $(20 k) stocks or bonds (@ gains) can trigger ordinary income/capital gains taxes
3. Pre taxation $’s to buy $20,000 of stocks/bonds can be as high as $40,000.
4. A promissory note can be part of the vehicles IRS depreciation
5. One doesn’t have to come up with the cash ($20k, in this example)
6. The dealer can use the financial instrument (promissory notes) any # of ways

There are more issues, but they might be considered TMI.

Ruking, it may not make sense to you, but there are all kinds of people out there in our world.  You know the term “impulsive buyer” - I am one of those “birds” (or used to be).  I have sold many, many cars to people who had no plans to buy a new car when they walked into my dealership and thus were not prepared financially to do the deal but had the means if given a few days.  Of The promissory notes I knew about at that dealership I worked at, interest did not accrue unless the buyer would have defaulted.

I once purchased a car on a promissory note that had a term of 10 days for $12,000.  I submitted a cashiers check to the dealership three days later in exchange for the promissory note.  Interest was not charged.

Of course there are tons of rationale for not selling stocks  or bonds to buy a car, but some people do.

I bought a new car a few years ago, then discovered I didn't have my checkbook with me. Dealer said no problem, take the car and come in tomorrow with a check. I guess you could call that a verbal promissory note.

graphicguy

Nice car. But, for $52K I expected more.

Did a test drive on city streets and on the interstate for about 20 minutes. It had the new “all digital” gauges, which was kind of slick. Steering is better than 3 series of the past. Nice grunt off the line from a stand still. MOtor sounds a little rough (especially compared to the silky V6 my TLX has). Stereo can’t come near the ELS in my TLX. Handled fine.

But, for $52K I could buy the Stinger GT or the GENESIS G70, both of which are much more dynamic to drive and has all the bells and whistles the BMW had. That $52K doesn’t even get me the hot 6 turbo.

Thanked my sales person, but mentioned his car wasn’t enough to get me to change vehicles.

I just feel BMW is pricing themselves out of the market compared to the competition.

Not meant to demean any here who love BMWs. There’s lots to love. I just can’t see the value equation.

oldfarmer50

PF_Flyer said:

oldfarmer50 said:

PF_Flyer said:

You may have noticed some new discussions popping up on the list. We're going to revive the owners club concept, and I'd like to invite you all to participate if you feel so inclined.

After all, you all have been around here almost as long as the moderators (some of you even longer) and getting your experience and expertise involved would be great. The discussions are tagged so you can get to a list of them with no other clutter, and here's a link to Owners Clubs that can be bookmarked.

If we need to add more "clubs" to fit what's in your garage, feel free to create one or give one of the mods a yell and we can get it up and rolling.

What list, what club, what’s a bookmark?

oldfarmer50 said:

PF_Flyer said:

You may have noticed some new discussions popping up on the list. We're going to revive the owners club concept, and I'd like to invite you all to participate if you feel so inclined.

After all, you all have been around here almost as long as the moderators (some of you even longer) and getting your experience and expertise involved would be great. The discussions are tagged so you can get to a list of them with no other clutter, and here's a link to Owners Clubs that can be bookmarked.

If we need to add more "clubs" to fit what's in your garage, feel free to create one or give one of the mods a yell and we can get it up and rolling.

What list, what club, what’s a bookmark?

Well, if you click on that link you get to the (still growing, not final) list of owners club discussions. There's also a link to the list in that blue navigation message at the top of each forums page.

You can bookmark ANY discussion by clicking on the star, and check your bookmarked discussions by clicking on My Bookmarks (Edmunds Forums 101)



If we haven't added your make yet, just let us know and we'll create it. If you create it on your own, just let us know. We want to keep the titles in the same format and get the right tag on it so it shows up on the club discussion list.

Got it, thanks.

ruking1

graphicguy said:

Nice car. But, for $52K I expected more.

Did a test drive on city streets and on the interstate for about 20 minutes. It had the new “all digital” gauges, which was kind of slick. Steering is better than 3 series of the past. Nice grunt off the line from a stand still. MOtor sounds a little rough (especially compared to the silky V6 my TLX has). Stereo can’t come near the ELS in my TLX. Handled fine.

But, for $52K I could buy the Stinger GT or the GENESIS G70, both of which are much more dynamic to drive and has all the bells and whistles the BMW had. That $52K doesn’t even get me the hot 6 turbo.

Thanked my sales person, but mentioned his car wasn’t enough to get me to change vehicles.

I just feel BMW is pricing themselves out of the market compared to the competition.

Not meant to demean any here who love BMWs. There’s lots to love. I just can’t see the value equation.

The local BMW dealers do not want to deal much. To me (just guessing a lot of other people too) that makes BMW non competitive. But hey, if they’re selling them off the truck carriers, why should they care.

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

Nice car. But, for $52K I expected more.

Did a test drive on city streets and on the interstate for about 20 minutes. It had the new “all digital” gauges, which was kind of slick. Steering is better than 3 series of the past. Nice grunt off the line from a stand still. MOtor sounds a little rough (especially compared to the silky V6 my TLX has). Stereo can’t come near the ELS in my TLX. Handled fine.

But, for $52K I could buy the Stinger GT or the GENESIS G70, both of which are much more dynamic to drive and has all the bells and whistles the BMW had. That $52K doesn’t even get me the hot 6 turbo.

Thanked my sales person, but mentioned his car wasn’t enough to get me to change vehicles.

I just feel BMW is pricing themselves out of the market compared to the competition.

Not meant to demean any here who love BMWs. There’s lots to love. I just can’t see the value equation.

Surprised that you would settle for a 3 series when the hot model is reportedly the 4 these days.

stickguy

Nice. How does the new model drive? I only sat in one at the dealer.

Does need better tires. Too little Sidewall!

ruking1

Two friends have the 4 series. I’d have to describe eachs’ driving as ...decorous.

ab348

I think most BMWs these days are selling on the sizzle, not the steak.

graphicguy

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

Nice car. But, for $52K I expected more.

Did a test drive on city streets and on the interstate for about 20 minutes. It had the new “all digital” gauges, which was kind of slick. Steering is better than 3 series of the past. Nice grunt off the line from a stand still. MOtor sounds a little rough (especially compared to the silky V6 my TLX has). Stereo can’t come near the ELS in my TLX. Handled fine.

But, for $52K I could buy the Stinger GT or the GENESIS G70, both of which are much more dynamic to drive and has all the bells and whistles the BMW had. That $52K doesn’t even get me the hot 6 turbo.

Thanked my sales person, but mentioned his car wasn’t enough to get me to change vehicles.

I just feel BMW is pricing themselves out of the market compared to the competition.

Not meant to demean any here who love BMWs. There’s lots to love. I just can’t see the value equation.

Surprised that you would settle for a 3 series when the hot model is reportedly the 4 these days.

Only saw a couple of 4 Series....both had a sticker near $60K, meaning the value equation was even less compelling. Plus, they both had the “old” interiors.

graphicguy

stickguy said:

Nice. How does the new model drive? I only sat in one at the dealer.

Does need better tires. Too little Sidewall!

It was a nice drive. No better or worse than our TLXs. Matter of fact, being RWD biased, I was surprised how the new 3 felt so similar in ride and handling to my A-Spec.

A lot more hard plastics in the 3, too....compared to the TLX. Much prefer the sport seats in my TLX over the seats in the 3.

Brakes were fine...again, felt a lot like my car. Steering was a little light in town but tightened up nicely on the highway. I had no issues with the steering.

Where the real sizzle is would be sitting in one and being “wow-ed” by the digital dash. It’s impressive.

Slice $5K off of the asking price as my test driver was equipped, throw some nicer leather seats in it, and they’d have a winner.

The test drive makes me even more excited for the upcoming S-Type as it will probably hit all my hot buttons....for a price that hopefully undercuts a 3 by thousands. Alternatively, if I can ever get behind the wheel of a G70, that may be on my short list, too.

As it stands, my car is coming up on 2 years old. And, for the price, I haven’t found anything I like better (maybe the Stinger, but I’m waiting to see how they hold up).

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

stickguy said:

Nice. How does the new model drive? I only sat in one at the dealer.

Does need better tires. Too little Sidewall!

It was a nice drive. No better or worse than our TLXs. Matter of fact, being RWD biased, I was surprised how the new 3 felt so similar in ride and handling to my A-Spec.

A lot more hard plastics in the 3, too....compared to the TLX. Much prefer the sport seats in my TLX over the seats in the 3.

Brakes were fine...again, felt a lot like my car. Steering was a little light in town but tightened up nicely on the highway. I had no issues with the steering.

Where the real sizzle is would be sitting in one and being “wow-ed” by the digital dash. It’s impressive.

Slice $5K off of the asking price as my test driver was equipped, throw some nicer leather seats in it, and they’d have a winner.

The test drive makes me even more excited for the upcoming S-Type as it will probably hit all my hot buttons....for a price that hopefully undercuts a 3 by thousands. Alternatively, if I can ever get behind the wheel of a G70, that may be on my short list, too.

As it stands, my car is coming up on 2 years old. And, for the price, I haven’t found anything I like better (maybe the Stinger, but I’m waiting to see how they hold up).

My Kia has 163 miles on it and so far nothing has fallen off.