Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

ruking1

Mr_Shiftright said:

Let's stick to the auto industry and/or government influences upon it, if we can. Try to keep your posts focused on that--sometimes it blurs but keep in mind where we are----thanks. The auto industry is certainly wrapped up with the gov'mint and China is certainly in the car biz, but we don't need to talk about Russia, etc.

Get real, whom on this board would buy a Russian car? 👎😱 NYET! 🏖🚜

AK-47 and ammunition? Now one is talking! Deniers deny this, but Russia is still in the country DE stabilization game. But it wasn’t that long ago “USSR” were defeated in Afghanistan, lest we forget.

This part is what we are talking about? https://youtu.be/-mX4OwAR9ec

You heard it here first. EV’s will face considerable downward pressure getting past 10% of the passenger vehicle fleet.

If the world is truly serious (NYET), they will put ships like these on EV. https://www.yahoo.com/gma/viking-cruises-engine-failure-off-norway-coast-prompts-220700928--abc-news-topstories.html

It’s hard to understand a 2017 model sporting 2 failed diesel engines?

abacomike

Mr_Shiftright said:

Let's stick to the auto industry and/or government influences upon it, if we can. Try to keep your posts focused on that--sometimes it blurs but keep in mind where we are----thanks. The auto industry is certainly wrapped up with the gov'mint and China is certainly in the car biz, but we don't need to talk about Russia, etc.

Thanks for the above post, Shifty.  It seems this board inevitably moves into political or semi-political discussions.  We need a nudge every now and then to lead us back to cars, etc.

explorerx4

When everything goes electric, one EMP is going to take just about everything out.
Maybe that's why I like watching this old tv series.
Tough to beat an old Jeep with a mounted 50 cal.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?
q=rat+patrol+series+trailer&docid=608052254085744724&mid=E431B72AF22FB6F628A6E431B72AF22FB6F628A6&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

explorerx4

When everything goes electric, one EMP is going to take just about everything out.
Maybe that's why I like watching this old tv series.
Tough to beat an old Jeep with a mounted 50 cal.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=rat+patrol+series+trailer&docid=608052254085744724&mid=E431B72AF22FB6F628A6E431B72AF22FB6F628A6&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

If this doesn't work , I give up, still can't edit a post.

ruking1

The part that really cracked me up was the “golf sock head cover “ the 9 Iron .50 cal. 😎

ICE ICE baby!
https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=Awr9IlcE2ZZcvgYA9gbBGOd_;_ylu=X3oDMTEycTloZWk5BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQTA1NzdfMQRzZWMDc2M-?p=mercedes+engine+building+video&back=https://search.yahoo.com/search?p=mercedes+engine+building+video&ei=UTF-8&fr=ipad&turl=http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OVP._TvNjIK7fkAql1XpJGuA6AEsDh&pid=15.1&w=144&h=77&c=7&rurl=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIwoqokr4cw&[non-permissible content removed]=Here's+How+a+Mercedes-AMG+V8+Engine+Is+Built&l=136&vid=f10a55300c6a79669d8aec4e265ed245&sigr=11bkf6f1r&sigb=129bgso5a&sigt=11gll3e3q&sigi=12jnd1qos

explorerx4

@ruking1,
Before that series, nobody put cover on their clubs until they needed to protect them from the sand traps.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

Let's stick to the auto industry The auto industry is certainly wrapped up with the gov'mint and China is certainly in the car biz, but we don't need to talk about Russia, etc.

Let's not forget the Lada

ab348

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Let's stick to the auto industry The auto industry is certainly wrapped up with the gov'mint and China is certainly in the car biz, but we don't need to talk about Russia, etc.

Let's not forget the Lada

My brother owned one of those things. Bought it new because it was cheap (what a surprise). Not his smartest move. After a while the dealer mechanics finally told him they couldn't make them run right.

ab348

abacomike said:

Thanks for the above post, Shifty.  It seems this board inevitably moves into political or semi-political discussions.  We need a nudge every now and then to lead us back to cars, etc.

Agreed. I come here to avoid political discussions elsewhere, which irritate me, so when they start here I get annoyed, probably more so than some other people.

Mr_Shiftright

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Let's stick to the auto industry The auto industry is certainly wrapped up with the gov'mint and China is certainly in the car biz, but we don't need to talk about Russia, etc.

Let's not forget the Lada

I wish someone here would buy a Lada. I hear the 4X4 is pretty good, though---very popular in Canuckistan.

Maybe they're like commie concrete? 10 years and the roof falls in on ya.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

When everything goes electric, one EMP is going to take just about everything out.
Maybe that's why I like watching this old tv series.
Tough to beat an old Jeep with a mounted 50 cal.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?
q=rat+patrol+series+trailer&docid=608052254085744724&mid=E431B72AF22FB6F628A6E431B72AF22FB6F628A6&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

I think an EMP will take out anything with an electrical system. Maybe an old crank started Model T would be immune but didn’t even those have a magneto?

Mr_Shiftright

Yes they did--installed on the flywheel. Always trust Henry to save a nickel.

Mr_Shiftright

I was thinking that it's not so much that EVs would drive ICEs off the market, but that the fossil fuel industry would just start shrinking and become uncompetitive. So it wouldn't disappear by any means, but it will start to decline. In other words, come 2025, you can start to bleed off your portfolio in that sector. No need to panic.

explorerx4

@oldfarmer50,
Didn't you watch the Ton Cruise version of 'War of the Worlds'?
Chrysler minivan still worked, maybe PT Cruisers, too?

explorerx4

@oldfarmer50,
Didn't you watch the Tom Cruise version of 'War of the Worlds'?
Chrysler minivan still worked, maybe PT Cruisers, too?

Still can't edit after I post.

Mr_Shiftright

That's because it was science-fiction!

explorerx4

@Mr_shiftright,
Well, there is that.

ruking1

15 cars lasting over 15 years (210,000 miles) ?

https://www.moneytalksnews.com/this-car-brand-is-most-likely-to-last-15-years/

It’s basically 1 SD (standard deviation) of owners.

stickguy

doesn't mean that other cars don't last just as long. Only that those owners keep them around longer. That probably means that the average Toyota buyer has no interest in cars as other than an appliance, or are cheap!

ruking1

stickguy said:

doesn't mean that other cars don't last just as long. Only that those owners keep them around longer. That probably means that the average Toyota buyer has no interest in cars as other than an appliance, or are cheap!

Indeed the number indicate a lot of other than Toyota owners do. First of all, the yearly average = 11,000 to 14,000 miles, 11.5 years is the average age. So 161,000 miles are both doable & not uncommon.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

@oldfarmer50,
Didn't you watch the Ton Cruise version of 'War of the Worlds'?
Chrysler minivan still worked, maybe PT Cruisers, too?

I was thinking of that very scene. But did the selonoid burn out because of the EMP or did the van survive because the selonoid was bad and so the electrical system was isolated from the EMP?

https://youtu.be/14dssk7yVpQ

The PTs probably didn’t work before or after the EMP.

oldfarmer50

ruking1 said:

15 cars lasting over 15 years (210,000 miles) ?

https://www.moneytalksnews.com/this-car-brand-is-most-likely-to-last-15-years/

It’s basically 1 SD (standard deviation) of owners.

Shakey statistics. All that means is that the owners kept the cars 15 years not that they wern’t breaking down every other week.

qbrozen

ruking1 said:

Only in theory, not at all in reality. That's merely an illusion. Let's say 100% of Americans want to put a tariff on trucks imported from China. Chance of passage, statistically? About 1 in 3 chance. Let's say 0% of Americans couldn't possibly care less about trucks coming from China. Same result. About 1 in 3 chance of a tariff. No matter how you vote, or who you vote for. Think of the American voter as one of those little kids with the toy steering wheel riding around in a shopping cart. They think they're driving.

To that problem, I heard a commentary recently that the problem that tears down this country is not that people in different parts of our country think differently or that different groups are different. But rather that the politicians in the swamp are running things to benefit them, not the people, now and future, in the US. The politicians love splitting us rather than helping us see we may have a common goal as people of the electorate. Makes it easier for them to gain wealth with donations to their foundations or giving financial benefits from some source to their children as kickbacks. Count the swamp dwellers who have gotten old and rich being in DC. And then there are those who have left to go to lobbyist groups. So when we think our politicians aren't doing what we want, they're doing what the Chamber of Commerce groups or other lobbyists want because it's going to benefit their members of wealth and importance in terms of the 1%ers.'

http://www.globalrichlist.com/ According to this little table, all one needs is less than $35,000 USD income or $750,000 assets to be one of the global 1%.

Wow. Talk about skewing data to suit an agenda. That site is AWFUL! 

houdini2

oldfarmer50 said:

ruking1 said:

15 cars lasting over 15 years (210,000 miles) ?

https://www.moneytalksnews.com/this-car-brand-is-most-likely-to-last-15-years/

It’s basically 1 SD (standard deviation) of owners.

Shakey statistics. All that means is that the owners kept the cars 15 years not that they wern’t breaking down every other week.

So when you hear hoof beats, you think of zebras instead of horses? The most obvious answer is that it means Toyota just builds pretty good cars.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Let's stick to the auto industry The auto industry is certainly wrapped up with the gov'mint and China is certainly in the car biz, but we don't need to talk about Russia, etc.

Let's not forget the Lada

I wish someone here would buy a Lada. I hear the 4X4 is pretty good, though---very popular in Canuckistan.

Maybe they're like commie concrete? 10 years and the roof falls in on ya.

Maybe you could have a "Lada owners Car Club", see if there are any out there?

imidazol97

I'm always amazed at the type of "research" data in a survey that folks will accept

while rejecting a survey like GM's survey used in an advertisement a few months back that a GM product was found by the respondees to have higher reliability than certain other products.

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Let's stick to the auto industry The auto industry is certainly wrapped up with the gov'mint and China is certainly in the car biz, but we don't need to talk about Russia, etc.

Let's not forget the Lada

My brother owned one of those things. Bought it new because it was cheap (what a surprise). Not his smartest move. After a while the dealer mechanics finally told him they couldn't make them run right.

My brother is the same...the cheapest is best. If he buys a car, a camera, a TV, he does his research, and then buys the one that is the cheapest. Even food, he will say I like this restaurant more because their food was cheaper or I get more for less money. What a way to go through life...Cheapest is Best!

imidazol97

What do the folks on here think should happened with the Lordstown GM facility? GM has given up on small cars and the Impala chassis because of the high cost of a remodel along with low sales of sedans. That Cruze facility has closed.

1) close it and level it
2) sell it to another manufacturer
3) another choice

driver100

ruking1 said:

15 cars lasting over 15 years (210,000 miles) ?

https://www.moneytalksnews.com/this-car-brand-is-most-likely-to-last-15-years/

It’s basically 1 SD (standard deviation) of owners.

We all know a Toyota has the best chance of surviving for 15 years.................but do we really want to be bored out of our minds driving a Camry for 15 long years?

ab348

driver100 said:

My brother is the same...the cheapest is best. If he buys a car, a camera, a TV, he does his research, and then buys the one that is the cheapest. Even food, he will say I like this restaurant more because their food was cheaper or I get more for less money. What a way to go through life...Cheapest is Best!

I think it comes from a combination of having Depression-era parents recounting their experiences and growing up in an environment where money was very tight. By the time I came around we weren't rich, but we never went hungry nor wanted for the essentials either.

imidazol97

oldfarmer50 said:

Shakey statistics. All that means is that the owners kept the cars 15 years not that they wern’t breaking down every other week.

My Cobalt is at 11 years and 135,000 miles.

My Malibu is at 5 years and 27,000 miles. The Malibu had one visit for a software update that was odd. It related to using the parking emergency brake turning the service light on in a few cars with certain rim sizes. Nothing related to normal usage. Otherwise, perfect,

driver100

That's a good theory and our situation was probably similar. I once heard you can tell if someone was a kid during WWII, they always turn the lights off if they are leaving a room.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

What do the folks on here think should happened with the Lordstown GM facility? GM has given up on small cars and the Impala chassis because of the high cost of a remodel along with low sales of sedans. That Cruze facility has closed.

1) close it and level it
2) sell it to another manufacturer
3) another choice

Good question....no easy answer. Ideally, build a little truck or something in that plant. But, it would have to be profitable to be worthwhile.....don't know if GM has something that would work.

snakeweasel

berri said:

There is a time for partisanship and a time for leadership. They are not synonyms. I think we need a leader who can help unite rather than divide the country. States may vote red or blue, but citizens are Americans either way.

No leader can unite a country where a significant portion of the population is divisive.

abacomike

driver100 said:

15 cars lasting over 15 years (210,000 miles) ? https://www.moneytalksnews.com/this-car-brand-is-most-likely-to-last-15-years/ It’s basically 1 SD (standard deviation) of owners.

We all know a Toyota has the best chance of surviving for 15 years.................but do we really want to be bored out of our minds driving a Camry for 15 long years?

Hundreds of thousands of people do drive Camry’s for 15+ years and YES, they tend to be quite boring! (the drivers and their cars)

graphicguy

I know GM and Ford aren’t real keen on the tariffs. Steel has skyrocketed. Of course, we will pay for that.

abacomike

imidazol97 said:

What do the folks on here think should happened with the Lordstown GM facility? GM has given up on small cars and the Impala chassis because of the high cost of a remodel along with low sales of sedans. That Cruze facility has closed. 1) close it and level it 2) sell it to another manufacturer 3) another choice

(3) Open up a Super Target Store or sell it to Amazon! 🤪

berri

I'm not sure Lordstown and many other big manufacturing plants are coming back. D3 is downsizing to reflect market share. Technology and robotics can also shrink the envelope size of the structures. With the tariff driven spikes in metal prices, I wonder if composites will become more viable in automotive like they did in aviation?

graphicguy

berri said:

I'm not sure Lordstown and many other big manufacturing plants are coming back. D3 is downsizing to reflect market share. Technology and robotics can also shrink the envelope size of the structures. With the tariff driven spikes in metal prices, I wonder if composites will become more viable in automotive like they did in aviation?

We’re already seeing that. The Steel industry is getting ready to take a bigger slide than it’s already been through.

houdini2

Mr_Shiftright said:

I was thinking that it's not so much that EVs would drive ICEs off the market, but that the fossil fuel industry would just start shrinking and become uncompetitive. So it wouldn't disappear by any means, but it will start to decline. In other words, come 2025, you can start to bleed off your portfolio in that sector. No need to panic.

I wouldn't write ICE off just yet. Desperate times call for desperate measures. The oil companies might decide to trot out that 100 mpg technology from that hidden vault.

berri

Personally, I think EV limitations on range, weather ramifications, and recharge time currently preclude it from becoming the dominant propellant. Of course technology leaps may change that at some point. Unless a different technology like hydrogen makes massive gains, I'm thinking the move may be more toward hybrids.

explorerx4

GM invested in installing a large solar farm on the Lordstown property a few years ago.

So far, I haven't seen the investment in the electrical infrastructure that will be needed for widespread adoption of EV's.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

ruking1 said:

15 cars lasting over 15 years (210,000 miles) ?

https://www.moneytalksnews.com/this-car-brand-is-most-likely-to-last-15-years/

It’s basically 1 SD (standard deviation) of owners.

We all know a Toyota has the best chance of surviving for 15 years.................but do we really want to be bored out of our minds driving a Camry for 15 long years?

My Toyota was an absolute wreck after 13 years but my Oldsmobile lasted 15.

oldfarmer50

houdini2 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I was thinking that it's not so much that EVs would drive ICEs off the market, but that the fossil fuel industry would just start shrinking and become uncompetitive. So it wouldn't disappear by any means, but it will start to decline. In other words, come 2025, you can start to bleed off your portfolio in that sector. No need to panic.

I wouldn't write ICE off just yet. Desperate times call for desperate measures. The oil companies might decide to trot out that 100 mpg technology from that hidden vault.

I drove a 2015 Ford Focus the other day that got 48mpg on the highway. 100 mpg might be possible. Of course the crazy DC transmission bucked at every start up so maybe they can pull a decent transmission out of the vault as well

ruking1

houdini2 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ruking1 said:

15 cars lasting over 15 years (210,000 miles) ?

https://www.moneytalksnews.com/this-car-brand-is-most-likely-to-last-15-years/

It’s basically 1 SD (standard deviation) of owners.

Shakey statistics. All that means is that the owners kept the cars 15 years not that they wern’t breaking down every other week.

So when you hear hoof beats, you think of zebras instead of horses? The most obvious answer is that it means Toyota just builds pretty good cars.

The statistics are FAR from shakey! They are from https://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

Indeed, if I weren’t such a “risk taker”, targeting 200k miles to 300k miles, enjoy torque of 369 # ft, 406 # ft, & 71% better fuel mileage, I would have gotte either Lexus or Toyota’s. I’m trying to take VW’s (32 mpg vs 19 mpg, 50 mpg vs 26 mpg) , MB’s (36 mpg vs 21 mpg) to 200k to 300k.

Indeed for me it is about cost per mile driven: DEPRECIATION: (projected vs actual) To be clear, the lower $ cost, the better.

EXAMPLE

2004 Honda Civic $12.3 k (sold cheap) to move @ 4K. We put app 250,000 miles on it.

CPMD: depreciation =$ .0332.

On its pre-fire sale days, the daughter posted 38 mpg RUG. The range was between 36 and 42 mpg.

We followed a 20,000 miles OCI, app 13. As I recall, the Civic took a $2/3 filter WalMart brand, from Walmart and 2.5 quarts of oil also from Walmart. (Mobil One 5w20, 0w20)

oldfarmer50

berri said:

Personally, I think EV limitations on range, weather ramifications, and recharge time currently preclude it from becoming the dominant propellant. Of course technology leaps may change that at some point. Unless a different technology like hydrogen makes massive gains, I'm thinking the move may be more toward hybrids.

While I like the instant torque of the EVs the lack of recharging infrastructure still makes me hesitant. Even when the charging systems catch up with the existing ICE system you still won’t be able to go out in the woods for a week and bring extra fuel with you.

ruking1

I’ve long since had no to little need for a sub 4 sec naught to 60 mph car. When you are 15 years old in 1966, getting caught drag racing on San Francisco St.’s was not an option. Indeed driving 99.99% did not use this metric.

I did buy a 2001 Corvette Z06. (4 sec, 0 to 60 mph) App a year later, someone in a Corvette article with Corvette engineers estimated that one could do approximately 100 full throttle 0 to 60 mph runs before major things started breaking. Now one can do a 65 mph to 120 mph without the major breakage consequences !😎

So nowadays we live in Silicon Valley, CA in which are the confluence of many things: mobile phones, chip design, computer applications to everything, but specifically autos. Yet, I still have 200k to 300k mileage targets.

Mr_Shiftright

houdini2 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ruking1 said:

15 cars lasting over 15 years (210,000 miles) ?

https://www.moneytalksnews.com/this-car-brand-is-most-likely-to-last-15-years/

It’s basically 1 SD (standard deviation) of owners.

Shakey statistics. All that means is that the owners kept the cars 15 years not that they wern’t breaking down every other week.

So when you hear hoof beats, you think of zebras instead of horses? The most obvious answer is that it means Toyota just builds pretty good cars.

I think the problem with that statistic is that it's just about life expectancy for a modern car. It's like saying "this race of people lives to be 80 years old!"

So yeah, Mr. Toyota lives to be 80 and Mr. Ford lives to be 78 and life expectancy is 79. So big deal.

ruking1

Mr_Shiftright said:

houdini2 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ruking1 said:

15 cars lasting over 15 years (210,000 miles) ?

https://www.moneytalksnews.com/this-car-brand-is-most-likely-to-last-15-years/

It’s basically 1 SD (standard deviation) of owners.

Shakey statistics. All that means is that the owners kept the cars 15 years not that they wern’t breaking down every other week.

So when you hear hoof beats, you think of zebras instead of horses? The most obvious answer is that it means Toyota just builds pretty good cars.

I think the problem with that statistic is that it's just about life expectancy for a modern car. It's like saying "this race of people lives to be 80 years old!"

So yeah, Mr. Toyota lives to be 80 and Mr. Ford lives to be 78 and life expectancy is 79. So big deal.

That is the misread of my & other folks posting or maybe it was missed. The numbers indicate it’s basically one standard deviation. One standard deviation is indeed a MINORITY. So ALL was NEVER implied or PRINTED.

Mr_Shiftright

The point is that 210K is by no means remarkable for many makes of car. It's bragging about nothing. Now, 300K gets my attention.