Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

henryn

There was a topic, a thread, here in these forums not that long ago about the life expectancy of cars. Maybe 2 or 3 years ago?

The consensus seemed to be that the life expectancy of an average car (leaving aside catastrophic damage) was in the range of 200 to 250 thousand miles. Obvious outliers would be very expensive luxury cars with very expensive maintenance and repairs. After a certain age, very few people would be willing to pay for the upkeep. Which is probably why Toyotas and Hondas stay on the road longer, it costs less to keep them on the road than a Porsche / Mercedes / BMW etc. And it should be obvious that a 12 to 15 year old car is more likely to be owned by someone in a lower economic strata who is less likely to be able to afford that kind of upkeep.

And add another exception – older cars that are expensive to maintain, but considered collectible or special interest.

The main take away from that thread – do not buy a used car, any make or model, that is approaching or exceeding 200k miles.

roadburner

I'll forgive a car most anything except being boring to drive. It doesn't necessarily have to be blindingly fast, but it has to be engaging to drive. I'd have to guess that out of all the new cars on the market there are only about 10%-15% of them that I would actually consider owning. As for trucks? Just one- the Raptor.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

The point is that 210K is by no means remarkable for many makes of car. It's bragging about nothing. Now, 300K gets my attention.

They used to say Volvos lasted a remarkable 11 years in Sweden (the 60s or 70s). Well Swedes probably don't drive too far, they don't want a new car every 3 or 4 years, and they keep fixing their cars to keep them running.

Life of a car has to be considered in context. Yes, a bmw owner probably drives faster and harder than a Corolla owner, and is probably ready to trade sooner and not try to keep the car running as long.....who knows?

Mr_Shiftright

Well back in the 60s and 70s, Volvos were in fact remarkable good cars. I have often said (hey it's a free country!) that the Volvo 122 was the most durable car ever made.

houdini2

I begin to miss that new car smell after 3 or 4 years, so would not keep a car for 10-12 years. The generally accepted best car for resale/residual value is not a car at all, but Toyota Tacoma, followed closely by Jeep Wrangler.

oldfarmer50

henryn said:

There was a topic, a thread, here in these forums not that long ago about the life expectancy of cars. Maybe 2 or 3 years ago?

The consensus seemed to be that the life expectancy of an average car (leaving aside catastrophic damage) was in the range of 200 to 250 thousand miles. Obvious outliers would be very expensive luxury cars with very expensive maintenance and repairs. After a certain age, very few people would be willing to pay for the upkeep. Which is probably why Toyotas and Hondas stay on the road longer, it costs less to keep them on the road than a Porsche / Mercedes / BMW etc. And it should be obvious that a 12 to 15 year old car is more likely to be owned by someone in a lower economic strata who is less likely to be able to afford that kind of upkeep.

And add another exception – older cars that are expensive to maintain, but considered collectible or special interest.

The main take away from that thread – do not buy a used car, any make or model, that is approaching or exceeding 200k miles.

I think most domestics and lower end models of all brands have a design life of about 150k. At least that’s what I read somewhere.

fintail

I think old MBs had an infinite planned life expectancy, so long as one was to maintain it strictly by the book, rebuild the engine when parts finally wore out, and keep the rust at bay.

New car smell is nice, old car smell can be pleasant too. I remember the 60s Fords my dad had back in the 90s had a distinct smell that wasn't unpleasant, and the fintail has a charming "old car smell", I think via so much wood trim, and maybe the seat stuffing. New MBs have a pleasant sweet smell too, I think something in the plastics they use, as I notice it in both tex and leather cars.

roadburner

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well back in the 60s and 70s, Volvos were in fact remarkable good cars. I have often said (hey it's a free country!) that the Volvo 122 was the most durable car ever made.

My wife's 1991 740 Turbo was a hoot-it surprised more than a few drivers in the Stoplight Grand Prix.

ruking1

Mr_Shiftright said:

The point is that 210K is by no means remarkable for many makes of car. It's bragging about nothing. Now, 300K gets my attention.

Yes, it seems that you agree with my points. 👍😎I gave one anecdotal Honda example, I’ve 4 Toyota & 1VW examples. VW cut two short in 2 buy backs.

ruking1

henryn said:

There was a topic, a thread, here in these forums not that long ago about the life expectancy of cars. Maybe 2 or 3 years ago?

The consensus seemed to be that the life expectancy of an average car (leaving aside catastrophic damage) was in the range of 200 to 250 thousand miles. Obvious outliers would be very expensive luxury cars with very expensive maintenance and repairs. After a certain age, very few people would be willing to pay for the upkeep. Which is probably why Toyotas and Hondas stay on the road longer, it costs less to keep them on the road than a Porsche / Mercedes / BMW etc. And it should be obvious that a 12 to 15 year old car is more likely to be owned by someone in a lower economic strata who is less likely to be able to afford that kind of upkeep.

And add another exception – older cars that are expensive to maintain, but considered collectible or special interest.

The main take away from that thread – do not buy a used car, any make or model, that is approaching or exceeding 200k miles.

It reminds me of a story that’s funny to me, but not to my daughter who drove the 2004 Honda pretty much all over the United States.

It doesn’t have electric windows or electric door locks. Well, I responded, it would tend to not have expensive electric windows/door lock repair problems. Indeed, over 250,000 miles, it did NOT!😎🤑👍

houdini2

fintail said:

I think old MBs had an infinite planned life expectancy, so long as one was to maintain it strictly by the book, rebuild the engine when parts finally wore out, and keep the rust at bay.

New car smell is nice, old car smell can be pleasant too. I remember the 60s Fords my dad had back in the 90s had a distinct smell that wasn't unpleasant, and the fintail had a charming "old car smell", I think via so much wood trim, and maybe the seat stuffing. New MBs have a pleasant sweet smell too, I think something in the plastics they use, as I notice it in both tex and leather cars.

The interior smell of old cars from the late 1940's will instantly transport me back to my childhood. Even the old celluloid smell of old Jeeps.

ruking1

houdini2 said:

fintail said:

I think old MBs had an infinite planned life expectancy, so long as one was to maintain it strictly by the book, rebuild the engine when parts finally wore out, and keep the rust at bay.

New car smell is nice, old car smell can be pleasant too. I remember the 60s Fords my dad had back in the 90s had a distinct smell that wasn't unpleasant, and the fintail had a charming "old car smell", I think via so much wood trim, and maybe the seat stuffing. New MBs have a pleasant sweet smell too, I think something in the plastics they use, as I notice it in both tex and leather cars.

The interior smell of old cars from the late 1940's will instantly transport me back to my childhood.

A “soup to nuts” detailing job can work wonders!

Sandman6472

The 2017 Ford Foci had a better auto tranny and that herky-jerky was all but eliminated. I know all the 2017's that we got, mostly Titanium models, drove perfectly with smooth shifting. The early models were awful, just awful, and most folks would ask for something else. They just were unsafe to drive in my opinion and always knew Ford had a fix, but instead, they denied and denied for years. Sad really as I'd own a newer Focus if need be, prefer a Titanium hatchback. As long as it got me from Point A to Point B will no issues, I'd be fine.

explorerx4

We had a 2002 Explorer and a 2004 Escape for about 12 1/2 years, just under 150k.
When came time to put another round of brakes/tires, plus some other fixes, we decided to let them go, although they still ran well. Neither looked very good outside, but clean inside.
They both got their best fuel mileage on back to back tanks around the 110k mark.

bwia

Is it me or is there a new trend in the airline industry. Southwest, Qantas and ANA, to mention just a few, have decided to paint their planes in the most outrageous color combinations. I cannot say that I'm liking it but perhaps others do.

Not to be outdone, Hyundai has joined the fray with its own fusion color interpretation with its 2020 Hyundai Tucson N Line ‘Drive A Statement’ Project. Too bad, it will be introduced in Europe first, not sure, if or when, it will hit North American shores. What do you guys think?

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

I was thinking that it's not so much that EVs would drive ICEs off the market, but that the fossil fuel industry would just start shrinking and become uncompetitive. So it wouldn't disappear by any means, but it will start to decline. In other words, come 2025, you can start to bleed off your portfolio in that sector. No need to panic.

I wouldn't write ICE off just yet. Desperate times call for desperate measures. The oil companies might decide to trot out that 100 mpg technology from that hidden vault.

I drove a 2015 Ford Focus the other day that got 48mpg on the highway. 100 mpg might be possible. Of course the crazy DC transmission bucked at every start up so maybe they can pull a decent transmission out of the vault as well

I doubt that you would be able to get 100 MPG out of any decent sized car on strictly an ICE. There is only so much energy in a gallon of gas and an engine can only be so efficient. So unless you want a Fiat 500 or a smart car or a hybrid you're pretty much not getting 100 MPG anytime soon.

snakeweasel

fintail said:

I think old MBs had an infinite planned life expectancy, so long as one was to maintain it strictly by the book, rebuild the engine when parts finally wore out, and keep the rust at bay. 

Wouldn't anything last forever if you followed a strict maintenance regimen, rebuilt things when the parts wear out and keep the rust away?

oldfarmer50

Sandman6472 said:

The 2017 Ford Foci had a better auto tranny and that herky-jerky was all but eliminated. I know all the 2017's that we got, mostly Titanium models, drove perfectly with smooth shifting. The early models were awful, just awful, and most folks would ask for something else. They just were unsafe to drive in my opinion and always knew Ford had a fix, but instead, they denied and denied for years. Sad really as I'd own a newer Focus if need be, prefer a Titanium hatchback. As long as it got me from Point A to Point B will no issues, I'd be fine.

You got that right. Most of the Focus’ Focui? I’ve driven at work were 17’s or 18’s and drive just fine. I was actually impressed with their handling and power. A little too small for my needs or I would have bought a new one before they disappeared. I agree that the 2012-16s ruined their reputation

Several other companies also had problems with the dry clutch DCG designs. VW comes to mind and the hot rod Kia Soul Exclaim too. I always wonder is there that much inertia in the car industry that when a very obvious design problem occurs with a transmission or engine the companies let the problem go on for years.

andres3

imidazol97 said:

What do the folks on here think should happened with the Lordstown GM facility? GM has given up on small cars and the Impala chassis because of the high cost of a remodel along with low sales of sedans. That Cruze facility has closed.

1) close it and level it
2) sell it to another manufacturer
3) another choice

3!

Infuse Yugo with 700 Billion Dollars, build them in Lordstown, and put Elon Musk in charge, put a Telsa battery cell in it, and take pre-orders. I'll volunteer!

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

Sandman6472 said:

The 2017 Ford Foci had a better auto tranny and that herky-jerky was all but eliminated. I know all the 2017's that we got, mostly Titanium models, drove perfectly with smooth shifting. The early models were awful, just awful, and most folks would ask for something else. They just were unsafe to drive in my opinion and always knew Ford had a fix, but instead, they denied and denied for years. Sad really as I'd own a newer Focus if need be, prefer a Titanium hatchback. As long as it got me from Point A to Point B will no issues, I'd be fine.

I always wonder is there that much inertia in the car industry that when a very obvious design problem occurs with a transmission or engine the companies let the problem go on for years.

That inertia problem is one thing that makes me hesitate about Ford. When there is a design flaw they seem to be slow to address it. That is what happened to the Fusion rental that stalled on me 2 years ago.....the rental company said it was happening a lot, they gave me another car (Chrysler 300 with bigger problems - steering that froze) right away and said they would be getting it fixed at the dealers. It was dangerous to drive a car that stalled on a highway for no reason....yet, the problem didn't seem important enough for Ford to get the cars back and fixed immediately, they decided to fix them as they broke down. That tells me....no pride in what they make.

I think if it was an F-150 they would have taken care of it right away, that is their meal ticket.

stickguy

speaking of long term ownership, was chatting with the wife this morning about her car. And how I need to get it inspected again in 6 months, since it turns 8 in September. so I thought back to figure out what car we owned the longest. Pretty sure it is a rough tie, and we had them together. 2005 odyssey and 2005 Accord. Both about 8 years (though I can't recall the exact months I sold them). So soon the RDX will catch up, and almost definitely pass them. It also will have fewer miles than either one on it's 8th birthday!

I made the wife promise when we splurged to get it that she would keep it 10 years, and looks like it just might happen. Assuming she wants to keep it as a DD and commuter for another 2.5 years until my car's lease is up. Not a guarantee, but we shall see.

Mr_Shiftright

Give it to a new start up for the "gig economy". It's called "Under", where you can rent the clothes you aren't wearing at the moment. Then get a job there, get a stock option, and cash in when the company goes IPO, hopefully before it goes out of business.

explorerx4

@driver100,
Seems to me the rental car company was the real issue. They gave you 2 bad cars rather than take them in to get fixed, so that they could collet the rental fee for them.
I had a bad rental car paid for by my insurance company, so I complained to my insurance company.
Got a much better car, the rental company doesn't want to lose the insurance company account.

driver100

Good point explorer. I do know the insurance company doesn't pay much for rentals, and the rental car company tries to get rid of you as quickly as they can...they would rather rent a car if they are busy enough...to someone who pays a lot more. A few of them told me they wouldn't have a car they could give me for a week....what kind of service is that?

bwia

<@!>

jipster

Looked at a silver 2011 Mazda 3 at Roadburners favorite dealership...Oxmoor Hyundai. 86k miles. $8,500. Internet.price $7,700. Waste.of time and a bit miffed the sales coordinator brought me in to look at the thing. Front end bumper looked loose. Paint on front bumper was crinkled, like it hit a dog or something. Had some hail damage...or the guy parked too close to a driving range. Craigslist has a good car show up about once a month. Doesn't anyone legitimately sell.private party anymore?? Craigslist, and all others, look to be 95% curbstoners.

ab348

CBC article on Hyundai/Kia engine fores and their recalls. Scary stuff.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/father-outraged-after-engine-fire-puts-family-at-risk-1.5064230

roadburner

jipster said:

Looked at a silver 2011 Mazda 3 at Roadburners favorite dealership...Oxmoor Hyundai. 86k miles. $8,500. Internet.price $7,700. Waste.of time and a bit miffed the sales coordinator brought me in to look at the thing. Front end bumper looked loose. Paint on front bumper was crinkled, like it hit a dog or something. Had some hail damage...or the guy parked too close to a driving range. Craigslist has a good car show up about once a month. Doesn't anyone legitimately sell.private party anymore?? Craigslist, and all others, look to be 95% curbstoners.

Some things never change. Although when I have checked out Jeeps at Oxmoor CJD I have been treated very well. I’d still steer clear of their Hyundai and Mazda stores. 

driver100

bwia said:

<@!>

Very profound!

driver100

jipster said:

Looked at a silver 2011 Mazda 3 at Roadburners favorite dealership...Oxmoor Hyundai. 86k miles. $8,500. Internet.price $7,700. Waste.of time and a bit miffed the sales coordinator brought me in to look at the thing. Front end bumper looked loose. Paint on front bumper was crinkled, like it hit a dog or something. Had some hail damage...or the guy parked too close to a driving range. Craigslist has a good car show up about once a month. Doesn't anyone legitimately sell.private party anymore?? Craigslist, and all others, look to be 95% curbstoners.

I am surprised a dealership would have a car like that on the lot. Is there no pride?
This is what gets me. With minimum effort, I found a 2018 Mazda 3 with 1700 miles and it is certified....price $16500.
I would get a part time job, work nights, cut lawns, do something to buy something like this compared to buying a $7700 pig in the poke that has the best half of its life lived. The 2018 will probably cost me less over the next 6 years.
2018 Mazda 3

PF_Flyer

tjc78 said:

@PF_Flyer
If you want to post up a Buick or Hyundai owner’s club I’ll jump in! 

@tjc78 Your chariot awaits!

Hyundai Owners Club - Meet the Members
Buick Owners Club - Meet the Members

You can have membership card #1! Be sure to set out snacks for new arrivals! And don't forget snapshots of your baby!!

snakeweasel

PF_Flyer said:

@PF_Flyer
If you want to post up a Buick or Hyundai owner’s club I’ll jump in! 

@tjc78 Your chariot awaits! Hyundai Owners Club - Meet the Members Buick Owners Club - Meet the Members You can have membership card #1! Be sure to set out snacks for new arrivals! And don't forget snapshots of your baby!!

I got #1 for the Hyundai owners.

Now is there a Chrysler club yet?

jipster

driver100 said:

jipster said:

Looked at a silver 2011 Mazda 3 at Roadburners favorite dealership...Oxmoor Hyundai. 86k miles. $8,500. Internet.price $7,700. Waste.of time and a bit miffed the sales coordinator brought me in to look at the thing. Front end bumper looked loose. Paint on front bumper was crinkled, like it hit a dog or something. Had some hail damage...or the guy parked too close to a driving range. Craigslist has a good car show up about once a month. Doesn't anyone legitimately sell.private party anymore?? Craigslist, and all others, look to be 95% curbstoners.

I am surprised a dealership would have a car like that on the lot. Is there no pride?
This is what gets me. With minimum effort, I found a 2018 Mazda 3 with 1700 miles and it is certified....price $16500.
I would get a part time job, work nights, cut lawns, do something to buy something like this compared to buying a $7700 pig in the poke that has the best half of its life lived. The 2018 will probably cost me less over the next 6 years.
2018 Mazda 3

Can't help but think this was the Mazda 3 the dealership had told me was going to auction about a week or two ago. Maybe decided to go ahead and try to sell it...forgot they had told me it was an auction car. Really looked like the kind of car a curbstoner would try to sell.

Long story, but this car would be for my son. He backed our Veracruz into a concrete pole at Taco Bell about a month ago. $3,400 in damages. So, let him tear up his own car, right? LOL.

venture

jipster said:

driver100 said:

jipster said:

Looked at a silver 2011 Mazda 3 at Roadburners favorite dealership...Oxmoor Hyundai. 86k miles. $8,500. Internet.price $7,700. Waste.of time and a bit miffed the sales coordinator brought me in to look at the thing. Front end bumper looked loose. Paint on front bumper was crinkled, like it hit a dog or something. Had some hail damage...or the guy parked too close to a driving range. Craigslist has a good car show up about once a month. Doesn't anyone legitimately sell.private party anymore?? Craigslist, and all others, look to be 95% curbstoners.

I am surprised a dealership would have a car like that on the lot. Is there no pride?
This is what gets me. With minimum effort, I found a 2018 Mazda 3 with 1700 miles and it is certified....price $16500.
I would get a part time job, work nights, cut lawns, do something to buy something like this compared to buying a $7700 pig in the poke that has the best half of its life lived. The 2018 will probably cost me less over the next 6 years.
2018 Mazda 3

Can't help but think this was the Mazda 3 the dealership had told me was going to auction about a week or two ago. Maybe decided to go ahead and try to sell it...forgot they had told me it was an auction car. Really looked like the kind of car a curbstoner would try to sell.

Long story, but this car would be for my son. He backed our Veracruz into a concrete pole at Taco Bell about a month ago. $3,400 in damages. So, let him tear up his own car, right? LOL.

Nothing is going to change.

jmonroe1

jipster said:

Looked at a silver 2011 Mazda 3 at Roadburners favorite dealership...Oxmoor Hyundai. 86k miles. $8,500. Internet.price $7,700. Waste.of time and a bit miffed the sales coordinator brought me in to look at the thing. Front end bumper looked loose. Paint on front bumper was crinkled, like it hit a dog or something. Had some hail damage...or the guy parked too close to a driving range. Craigslist has a good car show up about once a month. Doesn't anyone legitimately sell.private party anymore?? Craigslist, and all others, look to be 95% curbstoners.

Have I got a deal for you !!

Since a Silver car doesn't scare you off how about Mrs. j's 2012 Subaru Legacy Limited with 36K miles? I'm about to take it to the dealers today and I'll be trying to fetch 11K + even with a whacked passenger side mirror. However, for a long time poster buddy, your kid can have it for $10,300 and I'll even have the mirror replaced. You won't have to bring a lunch to get this deal, just a check. Easy peasy.

jmonroe

graphicguy

Switch it up a bit.....I’ve been inundated by ads for these “new” waxes......

https://www.shinearmor.com/products/shineshield®-wash-and-wax

https://www.produxa.store/products/

For years I’ve pretty much been a Zaino fan. I use several of their products and generally, have been pleased. Some of them take a little more effort and care to apply and remove, but overall, they’re good for my car(s) and have kept them shiny and protected.

These new ones seem to be different formulations (ceramic? Hydroponic?). I know Zaino is a synthetic (vs Carnuba wax), but not sure how it stacks up.

Anyone have any experience with the ones linked above?

PF_Flyer

snakeweasel said:

PF_Flyer said:

tjc78 said:

@PF_Flyer
If you want to post up a Buick or Hyundai owner’s club I’ll jump in! 

@tjc78 Your chariot awaits!

Hyundai Owners Club - Meet the Members
Buick Owners Club - Meet the Members

You can have membership card #1! Be sure to set out snacks for new arrivals! And don't forget snapshots of your baby!!

I got #1 for the Hyundai owners.

Now is there a Chrysler club yet?

Chrysler, can do!

Chrysler Owners Club - Meet the Members

abacomike

jmonroe1 said:

Looked at a silver 2011 Mazda 3 at Roadburners favorite dealership...Oxmoor Hyundai. 86k miles. $8,500. Internet.price $7,700. Waste.of time and a bit miffed the sales coordinator brought me in to look at the thing. Front end bumper looked loose. Paint on front bumper was crinkled, like it hit a dog or something. Had some hail damage...or the guy parked too close to a driving range. Craigslist has a good car show up about once a month. Doesn't anyone legitimately sell.private party anymore?? Craigslist, and all others, look to be 95% curbstoners.

Have I got a deal for you !! Since a Silver car doesn't scare you off how about Mrs. j's 2012 Subaru Legacy Limited with 36K miles? I'm about to take it to the dealers today and I'll be trying to fetch 11K + even with a whacked passenger side mirror. However, for a long time poster buddy, your kid can have it for $10,300 and I'll even have the mirror replaced. You won't have to bring a lunch to get this deal, just a check. Easy peasy. jmonroe

Are you going to share your net profit from the sale of the Subie with Edmunds?  Advertising is not gratis just because you’re a poster JM! 😜😝😛

jmonroe1

abacomike said:

jmonroe1 said:

jipster said:

Looked at a silver 2011 Mazda 3 at Roadburners favorite dealership...Oxmoor Hyundai. 86k miles. $8,500. Internet.price $7,700. Waste.of time and a bit miffed the sales coordinator brought me in to look at the thing. Front end bumper looked loose. Paint on front bumper was crinkled, like it hit a dog or something. Had some hail damage...or the guy parked too close to a driving range. Craigslist has a good car show up about once a month. Doesn't anyone legitimately sell.private party anymore?? Craigslist, and all others, look to be 95% curbstoners.

Have I got a deal for you !!

Since a Silver car doesn't scare you off how about Mrs. j's 2012 Subaru Legacy Limited with 36K miles? I'm about to take it to the dealers today and I'll be trying to fetch 11K + even with a whacked passenger side mirror. However, for a long time poster buddy, your kid can have it for $10,300 and I'll even have the mirror replaced. You won't have to bring a lunch to get this deal, just a check. Easy peasy.

jmonroe

Are you going to share your net profit from the sale of the Subie with Edmunds?  Advertising is not gratis just because you’re a poster JM! 😜😝😛

Well...ah...NO !!

jmonroe

tjc78

PF_Flyer said:

tjc78 said:

@PF_Flyer
If you want to post up a Buick or Hyundai owner’s club I’ll jump in! 

@tjc78 Your chariot awaits!

Hyundai Owners Club - Meet the Members
Buick Owners Club - Meet the Members

You can have membership card #1! Be sure to set out snacks for new arrivals! And don't forget snapshots of your baby!!

Thanks!.. Snake beat me to Hyundai but I claimed Buick

Discussions bookmarked.

henryn

graphicguy said:

Switch it up a bit.....I’ve been inundated by ads for these “new” waxes......

https://www.shinearmor.com/products/shineshield®-wash-and-wax

https://www.produxa.store/products/

For years I’ve pretty much been a Zaino fan. I use several of their products and generally, have been pleased. Some of them take a little more effort and care to apply and remove, but overall, they’re good for my car(s) and have kept them shiny and protected.

These new ones seem to be different formulations (ceramic? Hydroponic?). I know Zaino is a synthetic (vs Carnuba wax), but not sure how it stacks up.

Anyone have any experience with the ones linked above?

I prefer a carnuba wax myself, usually just plain old Turtle Wax Super Hard Shell. Requires a little more "elbow grease" than a synthetic, and doesn't last as long. But man, does it shine!

I have used some of the new synthetic waxes. Easier to apply (you can cover the entire car before you start buffing, unlike applying to only one section at at time.) And easier to buff out.

But... they just don't shine the way carnuba does. And I really haven't been able to see any difference between plain old Turtle Wax and the more expensive carnuba waxes.

Mr_Shiftright

I just keep my car properly washed and clean, in order to help protect the clear coat. It's my opinion that if you do this religiously, you don't really need to apply a wax.

However, a wax might make the car look a bit nicer, for cosmetic appearance. Some people notice this difference, and some do not.

tjc78

It also depends on the color.  A white or silver car is tough to really tell a good wax job from another.  A dark color a good wax makes all the difference IMO. 

Mr_Shiftright

That is very true! Not having a garage at the moment, I do a lot of washing.

ruking1

Zaino user for many years (25+) here. In the CA environs the cars are run, the importance is placed on (the best) 6 mo or more protections. Another goal is as “swirl free” as possible. The least one touches paint, & CORRECTLY the better. I’ve never wanted to buy a “Porter Cable” and start a whole new part-time career.👎😱

The interesting thing about Zaino is that one can put another coat on it (7 coats max) or even a coat of “old school” carnuba wax.

Mr_Shiftright

7 coats? How about spending more time playing tennis or golf?

ruking1

Mr_Shiftright said:

7 coats? How about spending more time playing tennis or golf?

Indeed! 👍 At that time, that was what Sal Zaino told me in a phone call to his shop. Lol ! this was pre Internet. http://www.zainostore.com/SFNT.html

There are some interesting TMI things going on that can save a lot of time & give better protection.

qbrozen

I doubt my car will be washed during its time with me.

Mr_Shiftright

It's not for everyone, Q---LOL!

tjc78

I'll confess I don't wash mine nearly as often I as used to. Weekends are usually busy with doing stuff with the kids.