Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

ruking1

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

NY has a higher sales tax than CT, so I don't know if that plays into it.
If I bought a car in NY, I think I have to pay the NY sales tax, but since CT is lower they and they credit the amount already paid, they wouldn't charge me.

NY sales tax is charged according to where the buyer resides not where the purchase was made. Even if I went to Korea to get my car NYS would still come looking for their 8%.

There’s even a line on the NYS tax forms for you to pay sales tax on everything you bought while vacationing out of state. I think I mentioned once that they used to position sales tax agents in NJ shopping malls to take pictures of cars with NY plates so they could send the owners threatening letters demanding tax payment.

CA looks closer to just under 10% sales tax.

stickguy

well, that is how I shop a lease. I always put the same $ DAS, so the payment is all that matters (since the rest of the terms are fixed months and miles).

oldfarmer50

dino001 said:

I remember only one time I had a "four-square" type of experience. Many years ago I came to a Mazda dealer to look into Mazda6. Test drive, OK, then the young man is insisting they put an offer together, to which I said it doesn't matter, not buying yet, but whatever, if it makes you happy, go for it. So they write down couple of numbers without any trade (I think), and then monthly payment of whatever. "Does it look good," the young man asks. "What's the interest rate here? " "I don't know, but does this look good? " "I don't know" - and I left, as I was planning anyway. But if I were buying, I'd be close to leaving at that point, too.

That’s a snake pit way of doing business. Both my last two new cars buys it was me that offered a deposit. Since I was committed to buying the car it didn’t matter to me and if something went sideways I’d just have the CC company reverse the charge.

stickguy

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

NY has a higher sales tax than CT, so I don't know if that plays into it.
If I bought a car in NY, I think I have to pay the NY sales tax, but since CT is lower they and they credit the amount already paid, they wouldn't charge me.

NY sales tax is charged according to where the buyer resides not where the purchase was made. Even if I went to Korea to get my car NYS would still come looking for their 8%.

There’s even a line on the NYS tax forms for you to pay sales tax on everything you bought while vacationing out of state. I think I mentioned once that they used to position sales tax agents in NJ shopping malls to take pictures of cars with NY plates so they could send the owners threatening letters demanding tax payment.

that is if you live in NY. Live out of state, and you don't pay NY tax.

and PA used to do that at big liquor stores just over the bridge in NJ. PA has state stores so selection sucks, and prices are high. So people drove over the bridge, loaded up, and headed back. Authorities hung out in the lot, followed them over the bridge, and nailed them.

driver100

stickguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

NY has a higher sales tax than CT, so I don't know if that plays into it.
If I bought a car in NY, I think I have to pay the NY sales tax, but since CT is lower they and they credit the amount already paid, they wouldn't charge me.

NY sales tax is charged according to where the buyer resides not where the purchase was made. Even if I went to Korea to get my car NYS would still come looking for their 8%.

There’s even a line on the NYS tax forms for you to pay sales tax on everything you bought while vacationing out of state. I think I mentioned once that they used to position sales tax agents in NJ shopping malls to take pictures of cars with NY plates so they could send the owners threatening letters demanding tax payment.

that is if you live in NY. Live out of state, and you don't pay NY tax.

and PA used to do that at big liquor stores just over the bridge in NJ. PA has state stores so selection sucks, and prices are high. So people drove over the bridge, loaded up, and headed back. Authorities hung out in the lot, followed them over the bridge, and nailed them.

Geez....what do they think this is.....1984!

driver100

It sounds like Bobst method has had it's day.......probably was based on no internet information available. He seems to be fishing for the lowest possible price the dealer will accept. I think the BM has had it's day.

ronsteve

stickguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

NY has a higher sales tax than CT, so I don't know if that plays into it.
If I bought a car in NY, I think I have to pay the NY sales tax, but since CT is lower they and they credit the amount already paid, they wouldn't charge me.

NY sales tax is charged according to where the buyer resides not where the purchase was made. Even if I went to Korea to get my car NYS would still come looking for their 8%.

There’s even a line on the NYS tax forms for you to pay sales tax on everything you bought while vacationing out of state. I think I mentioned once that they used to position sales tax agents in NJ shopping malls to take pictures of cars with NY plates so they could send the owners threatening letters demanding tax payment.

that is if you live in NY. Live out of state, and you don't pay NY tax.

and PA used to do that at big liquor stores just over the bridge in NJ. PA has state stores so selection sucks, and prices are high. So people drove over the bridge, loaded up, and headed back. Authorities hung out in the lot, followed them over the bridge, and nailed them.

KY and NC both have that "estimated use tax" on their income tax forms. It's becoming closer to obsolete as it gets harder and harder to buy anything over the Internet anymore without paying your local sales tax. Taxing stuff you bought on vacation is BS because you paid sales tax where you bought it (Oregon and Delaware excepted).

As for the liquor enforcement, why does Buford T. Justice come to mind?

oldfarmer50

“that is if you live in NY. Live out of state, and you don't pay NY tax.”

Correct. So explorerx4 could avoid the CT doc fees and pay lower sales tax if he took delivery in CT. I could be wrong but if he drove it off the lot in NY they might still ding him for our state taxes. One of you tax experts check that before he makes the trip.

stickguy

no, it is where you register (based on where you reside). so they treat it as an out of state purchase.

Bradd can confirm. He bought his Infiniti in NY and lives in CT

ab348

Edmunds apparently made minor changes to the screen presentation of the forums this week. The look is slightly different now.

I sadly note that the back button/backspace that takes you back to a list of your bookmarked discussions no longer reflects what you have just read. Seemed like that issue was just recently fixed and now it's broken again.

jmonroe1

stickguy said:

It also depends if your goal is to get a car you really want, for a good price. Or, to hold out for the deal of the century (even if you have to compromise on something to get there).

I’m at the point know where basic research leads to the good deal range, and I would rather not kill myself and make life difficult to shave a few more bucks off.

None of us want to pay more than we have to when buying a car and because we remember the old school ways of selling cars by dealers years ago, we are naturally on guard when we go into show rooms. So some of us have developed our own way of doing it to be sure we aren't going to be taken advantage of, at least that is what/how we think. My last several purchases have been pretty painless. I think I know more than the off the street Joe, but I try to get more off of the car than what a dealer shows on their web site. It worked for a few cars until I bought the now departed 2012 Subie for Mrs. j back in November of 2011.

Here is a cut and paste from a post back when the 2012 Subie was purchased. Some of you might even remember this:
___________________________________________________________________________

We were buying a 2012 Legacy Limited with 6 cyl. as the replacement for Mrs. j's XG 350 that blew up.

I couldn't find the Legacy I wanted here in the Burgh with the 6 cylinder (lots with the 4 cyl.) that was an absolute must for me. So, as usual, Son #1 goes out on the Internet to find what I wanted. After he threw the net out a little further he finds the exact car I want in Columbus Ohio. He calls and wants to know if he should go get a quote, if not, he wasn't going to bother the dealer. The price was pretty good, not great but they did have the car I wanted, so I said OK. About a half hour later I get an email quote and my Son got the same email. My Son calls to make sure I got the email. About a half hour after that I get a personal email that my Son did not get. They called it an Eprice. The price is almost $800 less. This is a Sunday night and I call my Son about it and he goes, "WHOA, WHOA, where did that price come from. That's not the email price I got". I tell him that it is a personal Eprice and he says, "WOW, both of us did a fair amount of research on this car and if that is a real price they are willing to sell at, they have to be into their holdback money. Let me know what happens. This sounds pretty good".

When I got to the office on Monday morning I called the salesman who sent the personal Eprice not the person who sent the blast email.

We talk for a while, mostly me asking questions to be sure they really have the car I wanted because I didn't want to drive to Columbus for nothing and of course we did some small talk. Finally, I said, "I like your price but it is about $300 more than I wanted to spend". Like I said above, the price seemed unreal but, hey, this is the car biz, so why not try to negotiate a little? The salesman said, "Mr. jmonroe, from talking with you, it seems like you have a pretty good understanding of the car biz. So, you have to know we are already into our holdback money on this car. We cannot lower the price anymore".

There you have it. Us guys in here do know more than the average schmo, so we should also know when we have found a good deal.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Now it seems like the biz is going to the no-haggle method so if we are trading a car that is where we have to get a better price than what is first offered.

jmonroe

henryn

imidazol97 said:

Somehow when something is "too good to be true," it usually is. Aren't there several clips of
Teslas getting into accidents?

I like the one in the clips where "the autopilot isn't even on--it just overrides the driver."

Sounds like a 737 Max 8?

Commercial airline pilots, flying for the big carriers here in the USA, have committed those manuals to memory, they don't have to look it up. Further, they have practiced those scenarios, all of them, in simulators so that they KNOW what to do in case of ....

Which is why the 737 MAX accidents happened overseas, where the pilots have not had the amount of training that airline pilots here have received.

dino001

henryn said:

Commercial airline pilots, flying for the big carriers here in the USA, have committed those manuals to memory, they don't have to look it up. Further, they have practiced those scenarios, all of them, in simulators so that they KNOW what to do in case of ....

Which is why the 737 MAX accidents happened overseas, where the pilots have not had the amount of training that airline pilots here have received.

That is an opinion based on nothing but prejudice and perhaps some some anecdotal stories. You don't know it to be a fact, I suspect you just have a "feeling" that those strange looking and talking people from "God know where" aren't as good as our all-American boys. For your information, there were quite a few crashes in the US due poor training, procedures, corner cutting, or just plain wrong judgment. Perhaps not most recently, but near misses are much more frequent than you think. Just take Air Canada almost landing on a taxi way of San Francisco not so long ago (I know, not American, Canadian, but you'd probably agree that those pilots have an training and regulatory environment roughly equivalent to American), or American crash over Long Island, where pilot's training went actually against him (overly aggressive rudder corrections causing ultimate separation of a tale section). I was watching just this Sunday newest Air Disasters episode about the crash of Continental 1713 in Denver in 1987. Incompetent first officer, experience "rookie" captain (experienced as first officer, new as captain), very small sheet of ice on the plane during blizzard, all it took to stall the plane was to pull the yoke too hard. Yes, it was 30 years ago, but back then I'm sure back then American pilots had near God status.

There are better and worse regions, of course. Lion Air, Indonesia, has been known to have problems (I think European Union still has a ban on all Indonesian-originated airlines to enter their space), but Ethiopian is known to be the best airline in Africa and that includes South African.

I think Boeing fouled up the design, mostly due lack of funds. They needed an A320/321 Neo fighter, they had no money to develop 797 in time (all was eaten by 787), so they took 1960s based 737, upgraded twice already and hung even bigger engines. "Same but better", they said. You can't cheat physics, some say. Boeing managers decided "we'll see about that". So they got the MCAS. That's fine, too. But why one sensor, why make indicator of such an important feature optional, why not tell people in more than 1-hour ipad training that MCAS can really take over? Why? Cause it costs money, not just Boeing (FAA would start asking for more info, the airworthiness may take longer), but the airlines would need to retrain the pilots. Suddenly "the same but better" doesn't work. Then one crash - well, you know, those Indonesians... OK, we will do the update by December. December comes, no update. Then another one - well, these are Ehtiopians, our boys would never do that. The plane is safe, the plane is safe, the plane is safe.... FAA is LAST to ban the plane. I think that was outrageous.

cdnpinhead

oldfarmer50 said:

I thought Bobst made the same offer to every dealer and if he got nowhere he then started over and bumped his offer a hundred or two and if rejected made the rounds again. He kept that up until one dealer accepted. Seemed like a lot of time was required.

That's the limiting case, which I'll bet never happened. I use the same approach, but what I found was that if my offer was reasonable, I rarely had to go past the first dealer or two, let alone running the string and starting over. I think they can smell whether you really care or not -- he who cares least always wins the negotiation. It's helpful to have a backup vehicle in mind whenever you make an offer.

That said, the going-in number has to be based on reality, not on some made-up number that proves your (well, let's just say) ego is bigger than theirs is.

explorerx4

One of my kids is having a great year.
Getting a national sales award and gets to take her husband, staying at the Coronado.
Also, invited to a global sales conference in Germany this spring, too.
Sales was never my thing.

ruking1

dino001 said:

henryn said:

Commercial airline pilots, flying for the big carriers here in the USA, have committed those manuals to memory, they don't have to look it up. Further, they have practiced those scenarios, all of them, in simulators so that they KNOW what to do in case of ....

Which is why the 737 MAX accidents happened overseas, where the pilots have not had the amount of training that airline pilots here have received.

That is an opinion based on nothing but prejudice and perhaps some some anecdotal stories. You don't know it to be a fact, I suspect you just have a "feeling" that those strange looking and talking people from "God know where" aren't as good as our all-American boys. For your information, there were quite a few crashes in the US due poor training, procedures, corner cutting, or just plain wrong judgment. Perhaps not most recently, but near misses are much more frequent than you think. Just take Air Canada almost landing on a taxi way of San Francisco not so long ago (I know, not American, Canadian, but you'd probably agree that those pilots have an training and regulatory environment roughly equivalent to American), or American crash over Long Island, where pilot's training went actually against him (overly aggressive rudder corrections causing ultimate separation of a tale section). I was watching just this Sunday newest Air Disasters episode about the crash of Continental 1713 in Denver in 1987. Incompetent first officer, experience "rookie" captain (experienced as first officer, new as captain), very small sheet of ice on the plane during blizzard, all it took to stall the plane was to pull the yoke too hard. Yes, it was 30 years ago, but back then I'm sure back then American pilots had near God status.

There are better and worse regions, of course. Lion Air, Indonesia, has been known to have problems (I think European Union still has a ban on all Indonesian-originated airlines to enter their space), but Ethiopian is known to be the best airline in Africa and that includes South African.

I think Boeing fouled up the design, mostly due lack of funds. They needed an A320/321 Neo fighter, they had no money to develop 797 in time (all was eaten by 787), so they took 1960s based 737, upgraded twice already and hung even bigger engines. "Same but better", they said. You can't cheat physics, some say. Boeing managers decided "we'll see about that". So they got the MCAS. That's fine, too. But why one sensor, why make indicator of such an important feature optional, why not tell people in more than 1-hour ipad training that MCAS can really take over? Why? Cause it costs money, not just Boeing (FAA would start asking for more info, the airworthiness may take longer), but the airlines would need to retrain the pilots. Suddenly "the same but better" doesn't work. Then one crash - well, you know, those Indonesians... OK, we will do the update by December. December comes, no update. Then another one - well, these are Ehtiopians, our boys would never do that. The plane is safe, the plane is safe, the plane is safe.... FAA is LAST to ban the plane. I think that was outrageous.

Why is your opinion any better than the one you condemn?

ab348

explorerx4 said:

One of my kids is having a great year.
Getting a national sales award and gets to take her husband, staying at the Coronado.
Also, invited to a global sales conference in Germany this spring, too.
Sales was never my thing.

SAP?

dino001

ruking1 said:

Why is your opinion any better than the one you condemn?

It may or may not be. Market of ideas will decide. All I can do is point to some evidence. BTW, I’m not saying American pilots are worse. I think they are likely better in their average than in some parts of the world, although I have not hard evidence it’s actually true. I just refuse to think they are somehow superior just because they’re American. I just protest suggestions it would never happen here, just because American pilots have so much training, they are infallible. They are not, plenty of examples over the years. When it comes to actual conduct by Boeing and FAA, the more I learn, the more repulsive it seems to me and even more shocking that the investors are not more cautious, but it’s their prerogative. Money will ultimately decide that one.

driver100

explorerx4 said:

One of my kids is having a great year.
Getting a national sales award and gets to take her husband, staying at the Coronado.
Also, invited to a global sales conference in Germany this spring, too.
Sales was never my thing.

Congratulations.....always nice to hear some good, positive news....especially regarding kids.

driver100

What both

ruking1 said:

dino001 said:

henryn said:

Commercial airline pilots, flying for the big carriers here in the USA, have committed those manuals to memory, they don't have to look it up. Further, they have practiced those scenarios, all of them, in simulators so that they KNOW what to do in case of ....

Which is why the 737 MAX accidents happened overseas, where the pilots have not had the amount of training that airline pilots here have received.

That is an opinion based on nothing but prejudice and perhaps some some anecdotal stories. You don't know it to be a fact, I suspect you just have a "feeling" that those strange looking and talking people from "God know where" aren't as good as our all-American boys. For your information, there were quite a few crashes in the US due poor training, procedures, corner cutting, or just plain wrong judgment. Perhaps not most recently, but near misses are much more frequent than you think. Just take Air Canada almost landing on a taxi way of San Francisco not so long ago (I know, not American, Canadian, but you'd probably agree that those pilots have an training and regulatory environment roughly equivalent to American), or American crash over Long Island, where pilot's training went actually against him (overly aggressive rudder corrections causing ultimate separation of a tale section). I was watching just this Sunday newest Air Disasters episode about the crash of Continental 1713 in Denver in 1987. Incompetent first officer, experience "rookie" captain (experienced as first officer, new as captain), very small sheet of ice on the plane during blizzard, all it took to stall the plane was to pull the yoke too hard. Yes, it was 30 years ago, but back then I'm sure back then American pilots had near God status.

There are better and worse regions, of course. Lion Air, Indonesia, has been known to have problems (I think European Union still has a ban on all Indonesian-originated airlines to enter their space), but Ethiopian is known to be the best airline in Africa and that includes South African.

I think Boeing fouled up the design, mostly due lack of funds. They needed an A320/321 Neo fighter, they had no money to develop 797 in time (all was eaten by 787), so they took 1960s based 737, upgraded twice already and hung even bigger engines. "Same but better", they said. You can't cheat physics, some say. Boeing managers decided "we'll see about that". So they got the MCAS. That's fine, too. But why one sensor, why make indicator of such an important feature optional, why not tell people in more than 1-hour ipad training that MCAS can really take over? Why? Cause it costs money, not just Boeing (FAA would start asking for more info, the airworthiness may take longer), but the airlines would need to retrain the pilots. Suddenly "the same but better" doesn't work. Then one crash - well, you know, those Indonesians... OK, we will do the update by December. December comes, no update. Then another one - well, these are Ehtiopians, our boys would never do that. The plane is safe, the plane is safe, the plane is safe.... FAA is LAST to ban the plane. I think that was outrageous.

Why is your opinion any better than the one you condemn?

What bothers me is the wolf is in charge of the hen house.
Boeing self regulates it's own equipment - when has that ever been a good idea?
When lives are at stake....that plane should have been tested a lot more....and the pilots should be trained until they have it down perfect. The last thing I heard was the pilots did every maneuver possible right from the text book....but the sensor did not act properly.
Can't blame foreign pilots or anyone until we know more.

dino001

driver100 said:

What bothers me is the wolf is in charge of the hen house.
Boeing self regulates it's own equipment - when has that ever been a good idea?
When lives are at stake....that plane should have been tested a lot more....and the pilots should be trained until they have it down perfect. The last thing I heard was the pilots did every maneuver possible right from the text book....but the sensor did not act properly.
Can't blame foreign pilots or anyone until we know more.

This is present in many other industries, from construction, to oil, to chemical, to nuclear energy. Basic premise, not incorrect one is that companies do have vested interest in keeping things safe. The relationship does not need to be contentious at all turns and levels. These guys know their business and will know good from bad and many/most people want to do the right thing. However, there are also incentives to cut corners, mainly based on short term profit rewards for executives, especially in publicly traded companies, who put the pressure down and lines sometimes get crossed in pursuit of those short term metrics. The role of the regulator is to know when is when. The role of the lawmakers is set the law and appropriations high enough so they never lose that ability. There are indications that Boeing and FAA may have lost that. We will see, not necessarily soon.

cdnpinhead

ab348 said:

SAP?

Ah yes, "stop all production." At Honeywell, where I used to work, you had to be there to appreciate what happened when SAP was implemented.

tjc78

Oracle isn’t much better....

ruking1

dino001 said:

ruking1 said:

Why is your opinion any better than the one you condemn?

It may or may not be. Market of ideas will decide. All I can do is point to some evidence. BTW, I’m not saying American pilots are worse. I think they are likely better in their average than in some parts of the world, although I have not hard evidence it’s actually true. I just refuse to think they are somehow superior just because they’re American. I just protest suggestions it would never happen here, just because American pilots have so much training, they are infallible. They are not, plenty of examples over the years. When it comes to actual conduct by Boeing and FAA, the more I learn, the more repulsive it seems to me and even more shocking that the investors are not more cautious, but it’s their prerogative. Money will ultimately decide that one.

... “The market of ideas will decide”... DANGEROUS at best, if not based on facts.

If the majority (94% +) of errors/accidents/crashes are “pilot error/s” it’s hardly an American vs the world pilots’ type of issue &/or infallibility? One’s concept is straw man @ best. Equipment errors are FAR less in #’s /%, in the event one thinks there are NO equipment errors. Now do I think American pilots are better ? Some are, some aren’t.

Well, if one doesn't like Boeing or other US made airplanes and/or the FAA, how does Airbus to African made to China made planes or EURO or China/EURO regulatory agencies work for one? They would certainly be cheaper ?

cdnpinhead

FWIW, many American and European pilots were trained to be military pilots, for better or worse. Practice makes perfect, plus which making correct serious decisions under pressure is often what happens in combat.

explorerx4

@ab348.
I don't know what SAP is.
My wife and I both work in software, but when I broached the subject of programming to her, she said, "Isn't that what you do?, no I don't want to do that".

ruking1

cdnpinhead said:

FWIW, many American and European pilots were trained to be military pilots, for better or worse. Practice makes perfect, plus which making correct serious decisions under pressure is often what happens in combat.

The airlines both exploit & are dinged by this. A dear friend (I went to basic training with) left the US Air Force as a (fighter pilot) flying officer (Lt. Col). He was one of the luckier ones (if one loves flying) & was accepted at a (name withheld) airline @ $22,000 per year. They paid the freight on his “pilot” training. But as you have said, he already had many thousands of hours, in more than a few military aircraft, fighters mainly. Later, he was caught by MANDATORY retirement @ 65 years old.

So there is a crisis level LACK of qualified pilots to fly the WORLDS airlines planes, as “the system” retires/forces out perfectly qualified seasoned pilots for....rookies, as the flight hours for rookies go down. I think if one tries hard, one can get credit for ...bartending ?
https://www.pilotcareernews.com/truth-global-pilot-shortage/
https://money.cnn.com/2017/07/27/news/companies/pilot-shortage-figures/index.html

tjc78

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-Lincoln-Town-Car/254190231497?hash=item3b2eeb1fc9:g:F6wAAOSw~CVcp2wy&LH_ItemCondition=3000|1000|2500

Darn Fords just don’t last....

cdnpinhead

ruking1 said:

He was caught by MANDATORY retirement @ 65 years old.

Well, it could be worse. When I found it necessary to fly to Taiwan and back 22 times between 1986 and 1993 I had two occasion to fly with pilots who were making their last flights -- both were 60 years old flying for United. This was back in the day when it was possible to modify a business class ticket for $25 to come back from TPE via HNL.

Good times.

ruking1

cdnpinhead said:

ruking1 said:

He was caught by MANDATORY retirement @ 65 years old.

Well, it could be worse. When I found it necessary to fly to Taiwan and back 22 times between 1986 and 1993 I had two occasion to fly with pilots who were making their last flights -- both were 60 years old flying for United. This was back in the day when it was possible to modify a business class ticket for $25 to come back from TPE via HNL.

Good times.

Oh yes! GREAT times!

It reminds me of a SI-GSW. Just because one shoots one’s self in the foot, doesn’t make it hurt any less.👍

Be that as it may... Happy Trails to you. https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=Awr9IlWcSK1cy4cAJkPBGOd_;_ylu=X3oDMTByNWU4cGh1BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--?p=youtube+sfo+landing+video&back=https://search.yahoo.com/search?p=youtube+sfo+landing+video&ei=UTF-8&fr=ipad&turl=https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OVP.ChBYpf2NIlxz16RfpheSIgEsDh&pid=Api&w=144&h=77&c=7&rurl=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfHl87p7X5o&[non-permissible content removed]=Landing+SFO+San+Francisco+Airport+OnBoard+Airbus+A380-800&l=866&vid=5c51168d8436229beaa99f24b120fd3a&sigr=11b7jaqad&sigb=12418idgl&sigt=11psdg2bs&sigi=12oqpii3k

explorerx4

@ruking1,
In the late 80's went to California for my high school friend's wedding.
While touring China Lake, I saw a pilot get out of an F-86.
Talk about an Outer Limits moment.

henryn

dino001 said:

henryn said:

Commercial airline pilots, flying for the big carriers here in the USA, have committed those manuals to memory, they don't have to look it up. Further, they have practiced those scenarios, all of them, in simulators so that they KNOW what to do in case of ....

Which is why the 737 MAX accidents happened overseas, where the pilots have not had the amount of training that airline pilots here have received.

That is an opinion based on nothing but prejudice and perhaps some some anecdotal stories. You don't know it to be a fact, I suspect you just have a "feeling" that those strange looking and talking people from "God know where" aren't as good as our all-American boys. For your information, there were quite a few crashes in the US due poor training, procedures, corner cutting, or just plain wrong judgment. Perhaps not most recently, but near misses are much more frequent than you think. Just take Air Canada almost landing on a taxi way of San Francisco not so long ago (I know, not American, Canadian, but you'd probably agree that those pilots have an training and regulatory environment roughly equivalent to American), or American crash over Long Island, where pilot's training went actually against him (overly aggressive rudder corrections causing ultimate separation of a tale section). I was watching just this Sunday newest Air Disasters episode about the crash of Continental 1713 in Denver in 1987. Incompetent first officer, experience "rookie" captain (experienced as first officer, new as captain), very small sheet of ice on the plane during blizzard, all it took to stall the plane was to pull the yoke too hard. Yes, it was 30 years ago, but back then I'm sure back then American pilots had near God status.

There are better and worse regions, of course. Lion Air, Indonesia, has been known to have problems (I think European Union still has a ban on all Indonesian-originated airlines to enter their space), but Ethiopian is known to be the best airline in Africa and that includes South African.

I think Boeing fouled up the design, mostly due lack of funds. They needed an A320/321 Neo fighter, they had no money to develop 797 in time (all was eaten by 787), so they took 1960s based 737, upgraded twice already and hung even bigger engines. "Same but better", they said. You can't cheat physics, some say. Boeing managers decided "we'll see about that". So they got the MCAS. That's fine, too. But why one sensor, why make indicator of such an important feature optional, why not tell people in more than 1-hour ipad training that MCAS can really take over? Why? Cause it costs money, not just Boeing (FAA would start asking for more info, the airworthiness may take longer), but the airlines would need to retrain the pilots. Suddenly "the same but better" doesn't work. Then one crash - well, you know, those Indonesians... OK, we will do the update by December. December comes, no update. Then another one - well, these are Ehtiopians, our boys would never do that. The plane is safe, the plane is safe, the plane is safe.... FAA is LAST to ban the plane. I think that was outrageous.

Well, you might call it anecdotal, but I have had contact with domestic and foreign pilots and airlines. A good friend of mine whom I went to school with served 20 years in the Air Force, and then another 25 years with a major american airline. We talked down through the years, swapped war stories, I heard quite a bit from him about his job and the airline industry as a whole. And I have had experience with some foreign air lines, including ones in Africa back in the 90's. Whole different ball game. So yes, I think my opinion is based on more than "prejudice", but you go ahead and believe whatever you want.

roadburner

imidazol97 said:

Somehow when something is "too good to be true," it usually is. Aren't there several clips of
Teslas getting into accidents?

I like the one in the clips where "the autopilot isn't even on--it just overrides the driver."

Sounds like a 737 Max 8?

Actually, the system that likely caused both 737 Max crashes(MCAS) is not even mentioned in the manual. It was intended to be almost transparent to the flight crew so that the aircraft would have similar stall characteristics to the regular 737.

ruking1

explorerx4 said:

@ruking1,
In the late 80's went to California for my high school friend's wedding.
While touring China Lake, I saw a pilot get out of an F-86.
Talk about an Outer Limits moment.

Do you mean PUNCH OUT??

ab348

cdnpinhead said:

ab348 said:

SAP?

Ah yes, "stop all production." At Honeywell, where I used to work, you had to be there to appreciate what happened when SAP was implemented.

Heh. I went through it *twice*. What a nightmare. The second time around we got the software licenses for free or nearly so, but the implementation took forever as usual and the consulting fees were probably $10 mil by the time you could call it a day. It is so ridiculously complex and unintuitive.

Mr_Shiftright

tjc78 said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-Lincoln-Town-Car/254190231497?hash=item3b2eeb1fc9:g:F6wAAOSw~CVcp2wy&LH_ItemCondition=3000|1000|2500

Darn Fords just don’t last....

That's pretty amazing. I'd certainly check all the suspension bushings though! I was watching this YouTube video of a Lexus LS400 with 980,000 miles on it. Engine was never opened, but transmission was redone. It certainly had "patina" but it ran great. When they lifted the car, though, the rear control arms, diff mount, just about every bushing under there was shot to hell. And then they drove it another 500 miles.

ruking1

Mr_Shiftright said:

tjc78 said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-Lincoln-Town-Car/254190231497?hash=item3b2eeb1fc9:g:F6wAAOSw~CVcp2wy&LH_ItemCondition=3000|1000|2500

Darn Fords just don’t last....

That's pretty amazing. I'd certainly check all the suspension bushings though! I was watching this YouTube video of a Lexus LS400 with 980,000 miles on it. Engine was never opened, but transmission was redone. It certainly had "patina" but it ran great. When they lifted the car, though, the rear control arms, diff mount, just about every bushing under there was shot to hell. And then they drove it another 500 miles.

Too fun! @ 980,000 miles, the MB GLK 250 BT’s CPMD: depreciation would be app $.0051 per mile driven. (Half of 1 cent)

stickguy

that Lincoln sure did not see much downtime.

qbrozen

Had to share this pic of a friend’s poor Yaris. Thing is, he has a minivan, too!

graphicguy

So, given my TLX’s 2nd birthday is a few weeks away, I gave her a quick detail with the spray wax I bought from a web site. Total wax took about 15 mins....results.....

sda

I do like the red on your TLX. It is refreshing not to see the typical colors and red really sets it off. Looks great!

Michaell

@graphicguy - sharp! I'd really like my next car - whatever it is and whenever I get it - to be a real color.

dino001

roadburner said:

imidazol97 said:

Somehow when something is "too good to be true," it usually is. Aren't there several clips of
Teslas getting into accidents?

I like the one in the clips where "the autopilot isn't even on--it just overrides the driver."

Sounds like a 737 Max 8?

Actually, the system that likely caused both 737 Max crashes(MCAS) is not even mentioned in the manual. It was intended to be almost transparent to the flight crew so that the aircraft would have similar stall characteristics to the regular 737.

And it all worked great until one sensor went bad.

andres3

ruking1 said:

Indeed! H rated tires are “130 mph” tires. Coincidently the (CUV) 2014 MB GLK250 BT runs H rated tires & tops out @ app 125 mph. 😩 No illusions about this one being “ sporty, racy”👀😉

But I think the real design goals have been are getting back to “station wagon lines” for CUV’s, etc. I’ve run CUV’s/SUV’s for 32 yrs + & it’s ALWAYS been a station wagon with MORE ground clearance, etc.

I hit 126 MPH top speed going into Ego Check Turn 3 at Spring Mountain in Pahrump, NV last weekend. So I definitely was beating any GLK250's on that straight.

andres3

oldfarmer50 said:

Explain this to me. Video supposedly shows Tesla autopilot taking control to avoid accidents. Does it really do this?

https://youtu.be/tjjdXjhT2g4

All look like basic driving 101 and maybe a couple intermediate-beginner 202 avoidances. Nothing special there. Do more every month in CA.

andres3

stickguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

NY has a higher sales tax than CT, so I don't know if that plays into it.
If I bought a car in NY, I think I have to pay the NY sales tax, but since CT is lower they and they credit the amount already paid, they wouldn't charge me.

NY sales tax is charged according to where the buyer resides not where the purchase was made. Even if I went to Korea to get my car NYS would still come looking for their 8%.

There’s even a line on the NYS tax forms for you to pay sales tax on everything you bought while vacationing out of state. I think I mentioned once that they used to position sales tax agents in NJ shopping malls to take pictures of cars with NY plates so they could send the owners threatening letters demanding tax payment.

that is if you live in NY. Live out of state, and you don't pay NY tax.

and PA used to do that at big liquor stores just over the bridge in NJ. PA has state stores so selection sucks, and prices are high. So people drove over the bridge, loaded up, and headed back. Authorities hung out in the lot, followed them over the bridge, and nailed them.

Nailed them for what? Don't you pay taxes at the end of the year or in April?

andres3

graphicguy said:

So, given my TLX’s 2nd birthday is a few weeks away, I gave her a quick detail with the spray wax I bought from a web site. Total wax took about 15 mins....results.....

Looks good, selling anytime soon?

karhill1

I helped my daughter buy a Subaru a few years ago. It was a Sunday, not much traffic at the dealership. We were discussing price with a sales guy, who was moving to and from his sales manager throughout the ordeal, and agreed on a price. The sales guy said he needed a $1,000 check.

I asked why. He responded "I need to show my sales manager you are serious!?

I said "we are sitting here discussing price on a Sunday and you have gone over to the sales manager, who was sitting 20 or so feet away, on several occasions. I do not think he needs anything more from us!"

It was comical.

stickguy

andres3 said:

stickguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

NY has a higher sales tax than CT, so I don't know if that plays into it.
If I bought a car in NY, I think I have to pay the NY sales tax, but since CT is lower they and they credit the amount already paid, they wouldn't charge me.

NY sales tax is charged according to where the buyer resides not where the purchase was made. Even if I went to Korea to get my car NYS would still come looking for their 8%.

There’s even a line on the NYS tax forms for you to pay sales tax on everything you bought while vacationing out of state. I think I mentioned once that they used to position sales tax agents in NJ shopping malls to take pictures of cars with NY plates so they could send the owners threatening letters demanding tax payment.

that is if you live in NY. Live out of state, and you don't pay NY tax.

and PA used to do that at big liquor stores just over the bridge in NJ. PA has state stores so selection sucks, and prices are high. So people drove over the bridge, loaded up, and headed back. Authorities hung out in the lot, followed them over the bridge, and nailed them.

Nailed them for what? Don't you pay taxes at the end of the year or in April?

arrested them. Against PA law to bring in liquor from out of state. I believe there are conditions (around resale) but basically it was crossing state lines. And they were looking for people loading up (stocking a bar type stuff) not some dude coming back from the Jersey shore stopping for a 6 pack (though given how the PA LCB operates, would not put that past them either)

imidazol97

stickguy said:

arrested them. Against PA law to bring in liquor from out of state. I believe there are conditions (around resale) but basically it was crossing state lines. And they were looking for people loading up (stocking a bar type stuff) not some dude coming back from the Jersey shore stopping for a 6 pack (though given how the PA LCB operates, would not put that past them either)

Ohio used to do that because of people going across the bridge in Cincinnati/Covington/Newport to the liquor stores for cigarettes, and liquor too. I haven't heard anything of that type for decades however.

The Ohio tax form has a line to pay sales tax on items purchased out of state on which no Ohio tax has been paid.