Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

dino001 said:

roadburner said:

imidazol97 said:

Somehow when something is "too good to be true," it usually is. Aren't there several clips of
Teslas getting into accidents?

I like the one in the clips where "the autopilot isn't even on--it just overrides the driver."

Sounds like a 737 Max 8?

Actually, the system that likely caused both 737 Max crashes(MCAS) is not even mentioned in the manual. It was intended to be almost transparent to the flight crew so that the aircraft would have similar stall characteristics to the regular 737.

And it all worked great until one sensor went bad.

Is that the sensor that could be ordered as optional equipment? Now, why would you sell airplanes that require optional equipment if you want it to be extra safe, and not just "may be safe"?

driver100

karhill1 said:

I helped my daughter buy a Subaru a few years ago. It was a Sunday, not much traffic at the dealership. We were discussing price with a sales guy, who was moving to and from his sales manager throughout the ordeal, and agreed on a price. The sales guy said he needed a $1,000 check.

I asked why. He responded "I need to show my sales manager you are serious!?

I said "we are sitting here discussing price on a Sunday and you have gone over to the sales manager, who was sitting 20 or so feet away, on several occasions. I do not think he needs anything more from us!"

It was comical.

Karhill, I can understand why they ask you for a $1000 deposit before going to the manager. They want to lock in the deal. What they don't want is for the salesman to go to the manager, the manager OKs the deal, then you have second thoughts and figure you will try to shave off another $500.

Once they know you and you have bought cars before they may not do that, but, I think it is wise on their part to do it that way.

driver100

graphicguy said:

So, given my TLX’s 2nd birthday is a few weeks away, I gave her a quick detail with the spray wax I bought from a web site. Total wax took about 15 mins....results.....

Great looking car GG, and the red looks really nice on it. Red works great on sporty cars...not so much on large cars....except Cadillacs can look good in that bright candy apple GM red.

ab348

stickguy said:

arrested them. Against PA law to bring in liquor from out of state. I believe there are conditions (around resale) but basically it was crossing state lines. And they were looking for people loading up (stocking a bar type stuff) not some dude coming back from the Jersey shore stopping for a 6 pack (though given how the PA LCB operates, would not put that past them either)

Same thing happened up here. There was a landmark case in the province of New Brunswick where an older guy who lived near the border with Quebec got nailed. Quebec sells beer far more cheaply than any other province in Canada and in areas bordering other provinces it is common for those residents to bring it back. This guy took orders from his buddies and proceeded back with a pickup bed full of beer, so he was easy pickings for the NB cops to charge with bootlegging. He decided to take it to court and it ultimately made it to the Supreme Court of Canada. Long story short, the feds are now changing the law to allegedly make it easier. Problem here is that because the taxes and fees on booze make up a big part of each provincial budget it remains to be seen how it will play out in practice.

driver100

Michaell said:

@graphicguy - sharp! I'd really like my next car - whatever it is and whenever I get it - to be a real color.

It seems people are getting tired of white, silver, gray and black. When red works it is really special.

stickguy

I can vouch that the red looks really good on a TLX! And makes it so much easier to pick out in a parking lot.

We would do red again, though the wife still feels a little self conscious in it ("I'm not really a red person") since she does not like getting any attention. But, she would be OK with a darker (merlot type) red on the next car. Or Blue. I like green. But I really don't think she will do silver or gray again.

snakeweasel

dino001 said:

I remember only one time I had a "four-square" type of experience. Many years ago I came to a Mazda dealer to look into Mazda6. Test drive, OK, then the young man is insisting they put an offer together, to which I said it doesn't matter, not buying yet, but whatever, if it makes you happy, go for it. So they write down couple of numbers without any trade (I think), and then monthly payment of whatever. "Does it look good," the young man asks. "What's the interest rate here? " "I don't know, but does this look good? " "I don't know" - and I left, as I was planning anyway. But if I were buying, I'd be close to leaving at that point, too.

Not only what was the interest rate but what was the length of the loan? Also I had one dealership who was quoting me payments that was actually for a lease, so make sure if it's for a lease or not.

snakeweasel

ruking1 said:

@graphicguy - one small problem with your strategy. On both the Countryman and Outback purchases, we identified the unit we wanted via the dealer web page. In both cases, the units were "in transit" and weren't scheduled to arrive at the dealer for a couple of weeks (the MINI was shipped to CO from the port in CA, and the Subaru had to be trucked to the dealer from the factory in Indiana). We put a refundable deposit down to 'hold' the vehicle, and negotiated when they arrived. The MINI is a one-price dealer, so a take it or leave it attitude from them (but, no doc fee, which saves about $500). I had all my research in place for the Outback, so we only went back and forth twice (once on the Outback price, once on the trade value - thank you, CarMax!). Relatively painless, both times.

I just don't understand the purpose of a refundable deposit. There's no point to it.

On that note, I don’t think I’ve ever put a deposit on real estate, let alone a car. I like the deals where one can drive off the lot (to getting delivered) with just a signature. Yes, that’s why an “out the door price” really does not appeal to me. Just the “doc” fees can be/are 2x to 500 x more/less than a dealer will make for a better negotiated deal.

Both homes I have bought I put deposits on. They were both new construction in new developments so no deposit no house. 

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

GG....were you asking about laser eye surgery? I heard a story on the news a few days later about this weather lady who had the surgery and the results were so bad she committed suicide. It doesn't happen often, but, there is a risk. She had a slightly different procedure done called LASIK Smile surgery. FOX NEWS METEOROLIGIST I had mine done over 20 years ago and so far so good.

It was me that was asking. The weather lady sounds like an urban legend. 

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

NY has a higher sales tax than CT, so I don't know if that plays into it. If I bought a car in NY, I think I have to pay the NY sales tax, but since CT is lower they and they credit the amount already paid, they wouldn't charge me.

NY sales tax is charged according to where the buyer resides not where the purchase was made. Even if I went to Korea to get my car NYS would still come looking for their 8%. There’s even a line on the NYS tax forms for you to pay sales tax on everything you bought while vacationing out of state. I think I mentioned once that they used to position sales tax agents in NJ shopping malls to take pictures of cars with NY plates so they could send the owners threatening letters demanding tax payment.

Every state is like that, just some are more aggressive about it. 

graphicguy

andres3 said:

graphicguy said:

So, given my TLX’s 2nd birthday is a few weeks away, I gave her a quick detail with the spray wax I bought from a web site. Total wax took about 15 mins....results.....

Looks good, selling anytime soon?

Not in the plans. But, as you well know, any given day with a little nudge of motivation.......

Came really close on that Stinger GT at $14K off MSRP. But, you guys (well, not you specifically) talked me from the ledge!

For the first time, in a very long time, I’m really happy with this car. So, maybe in 2021?

snakeweasel

stickguy said:

NY has a higher sales tax than CT, so I don't know if that plays into it. If I bought a car in NY, I think I have to pay the NY sales tax, but since CT is lower they and they credit the amount already paid, they wouldn't charge me.

NY sales tax is charged according to where the buyer resides not where the purchase was made. Even if I went to Korea to get my car NYS would still come looking for their 8%. There’s even a line on the NYS tax forms for you to pay sales tax on everything you bought while vacationing out of state. I think I mentioned once that they used to position sales tax agents in NJ shopping malls to take pictures of cars with NY plates so they could send the owners threatening letters demanding tax payment.

that is if you live in NY. Live out of state, and you don't pay NY tax. and PA used to do that at big liquor stores just over the bridge in NJ. PA has state stores so selection sucks, and prices are high. So people drove over the bridge, loaded up, and headed back. Authorities hung out in the lot, followed them over the bridge, and nailed them.

They do that here in Illinois with fireworks. Cross over the state line into Indiana and it's tons of fireworks stands.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

stickguy said:

arrested them. Against PA law to bring in liquor from out of state. I believe there are conditions (around resale) but basically it was crossing state lines. And they were looking for people loading up (stocking a bar type stuff) not some dude coming back from the Jersey shore stopping for a 6 pack (though given how the PA LCB operates, would not put that past them either)

Same thing happened up here. There was a landmark case in the province of New Brunswick where an older guy who lived near the border with Quebec got nailed. Quebec sells beer far more cheaply than any other province in Canada and in areas bordering other provinces it is common for those residents to bring it back. This guy took orders from his buddies and proceeded back with a pickup bed full of beer, so he was easy pickings for the NB cops to charge with bootlegging. He decided to take it to court and it ultimately made it to the Supreme Court of Canada. Long story short, the feds are now changing the law to allegedly make it easier. Problem here is that because the taxes and fees on booze make up a big part of each provincial budget it remains to be seen how it will play out in practice.

Same here with cigarettes. I’ve heard stories of little old ladies taking the minivan down south where taxes are less than the extortion charged by NYS and bringing them back up. Every once and awhile you hear of some buttlegger bust but I doubt they’re stopping much.

Maybe that can be another mule movie for Eastwood.

graphicguy

karhill1 said:

I helped my daughter buy a Subaru a few years ago. It was a Sunday, not much traffic at the dealership. We were discussing price with a sales guy, who was moving to and from his sales manager throughout the ordeal, and agreed on a price. The sales guy said he needed a $1,000 check.

I asked why. He responded "I need to show my sales manager you are serious!?

I said "we are sitting here discussing price on a Sunday and you have gone over to the sales manager, who was sitting 20 or so feet away, on several occasions. I do not think he needs anything more from us!"

It was comical.

This was several years ago, but same thing happened when I was shopping at a Honda store. Sales person wanted a check to show his manager I was serious.

I actually wrote out the check without signing it and told him the check stays on the desk if the manage wanted to see if I was serious. I then explained if the manager wanted to know if I was serious when he came over, he could watch me sign it after he accepted my offer or I could write VOID on it if he didn’t. His choice.

Sales Manager (who, like your guy) was sitting several feet away, and the sales guy had to run back and forth between the desks. Sales Manger and I could have talked to each other from the desks we were sitting in, but refused to come over. They then tried to get into the “grind it out” routine. At that point, I wrote VOID on the check ripped it up and walked. Sales person called later that evening stating they’d like me to come back in, and was CERTAIN we could make a deal.

As I explained to him, I was sitting there a few hours earlier, and they stated they doubted my seriousness. So, no reason to believe I should think they were serious about doing a deal with me.

graphicguy

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:

arrested them. Against PA law to bring in liquor from out of state. I believe there are conditions (around resale) but basically it was crossing state lines. And they were looking for people loading up (stocking a bar type stuff) not some dude coming back from the Jersey shore stopping for a 6 pack (though given how the PA LCB operates, would not put that past them either)

Ohio used to do that because of people going across the bridge in Cincinnati/Covington/Newport to the liquor stores for cigarettes, and liquor too. I haven't heard anything of that type for decades however.

The Ohio tax form has a line to pay sales tax on items purchased out of state on which no Ohio tax has been paid.

Yeah....used to hear of the “revenuers” sitting on the OHIO side of the Ohio River bridge waiting for those sited in KY with OH tags shopping in KY liquor/cigarette stores, so they could fine them.

Haven’t heard of that in a very long while, though. If I happen to be in KY, I’ll shop for bourbon (which, I like, but don’t drink a lot of). Aside from that, I’m not making a special trip just to buy a couple of fifths of something.

Cigarettes? Not sure the price differential between OH and KY since I don’t smoke. But, from what I hear, it’s becoming quite expensive, regardless of where you buy them. What does it cost for a pack/carton these days?

carnaught

Speaking of salesmen and sales managers, it has been said that dealerships have hidden microphones. While the salesman makes the trip to the manager, they can listen in on the conversations taking place while they’re away. I for one tend to believe it, as Mrs. Carnaught and I have based our discussions on this very premise. Often, for example, we play “good cop, bad cop”, with one of us saying we’re not so in love with the car that we would be willing to pay more than our offer for the car. Most of the time, in our experience, it seems to be successful. The offer I make is always the “out the door” price.

Any other opinions on this?

Mr_Shiftright

I've actually seen this at a dealership, but not for a long, long time.

dino001

driver100 said:

Is that the sensor that could be ordered as optional equipment? Now, why would you sell airplanes that require optional equipment if you want it to be extra safe, and not just "may be safe"?

The sensor was not optional (MCAS needs data), it was the indicator light for the sensor, I believe. All of that was because Boeing insisted Max is "same" as New Generation and MCAS was a "minor change". Since it was "minor change", the optional sensor was not "vital" to the safety, or so the airlines were made to believe. There was one more piece of equipment that was also optional, cause it was "not essential", I don't remember which one. Some cheapskate airlines (this one definitely separates most American carriers from many foreign, especially so-called low-cost) decided to save a buck, but they probably would have been more careful in saving done that if Boeing didn't insist whole MCAS wasn't a big deal, it it was "the same (but better)" plane.

dino001

graphicguy said:

karhill1 said:

I helped my daughter buy a Subaru a few years ago. It was a Sunday, not much traffic at the dealership. We were discussing price with a sales guy, who was moving to and from his sales manager throughout the ordeal, and agreed on a price. The sales guy said he needed a $1,000 check.

I asked why. He responded "I need to show my sales manager you are serious!?

I said "we are sitting here discussing price on a Sunday and you have gone over to the sales manager, who was sitting 20 or so feet away, on several occasions. I do not think he needs anything more from us!"

It was comical.

This was several years ago, but same thing happened when I was shopping at a Honda store. Sales person wanted a check to show his manager I was serious.

I actually wrote out the check without signing it and told him the check stays on the desk if the manage wanted to see if I was serious. I then explained if the manager wanted to know if I was serious when he came over, he could watch me sign it after he accepted my offer or I could write VOID on it if he didn’t. His choice.

Sales Manager (who, like your guy) was sitting several feet away, and the sales guy had to run back and forth between the desks. Sales Manger and I could have talked to each other from the desks we were sitting in, but refused to come over. They then tried to get into the “grind it out” routine. At that point, I wrote VOID on the check ripped it up and walked. Sales person called later that evening stating they’d like me to come back in, and was CERTAIN we could make a deal.

As I explained to him, I was sitting there a few hours earlier, and they stated they doubted my seriousness. So, no reason to believe I should think they were serious about doing a deal with me.

Why would people do s.t like this is beyond me. I guess it "works".

graphicguy

@driver100 @snakeweasel

I did have the laser surgery done. Shortly afterwards, (~8 weeks) I suffered a detached retina. The person who did my laser surgery as a Prof at University of Cincinnati, and actually taught the procedure at their Opthamology School. So, I thought he was the best.

Turned out, I went to him when I suffered the detached retina and he distanced himself from having any sort of responsibility for the detached retina and referred me to the largest eye surgeon group in the Cincinnati area for treatment (Cincinnati Eye Institute or CEI). CEI surgeons said they’d do what they could. And, I asked them if blame could be established, who would they place it on. Of course, they said...NOT US!!!!! That only left one other person to blame...the original laser surgeon. I had the retina reattached, but since so much eye “material” was taken during the original laser surgery, it was difficult to get it done right.

As a result, and after 2 more surgeries, I have reduced peripheral vision, my eyesight is worse now than it was before the original laser surgery, and my eye waters constantly.

Of course, family and friends urged me to take legal action. But, that wouldn’t return the sight I lost.

Am I blind? No....not even close. But, it just goes to show that even with due diligence, and all the knowledge in the world, surgical mistakes can and so happen.

Even someone with a good reputation can make mistakes.

carnaught

@graphicguy, I don’t think you necessarily had a “surgical mistake” from your LASIK, rather a higher statistical chance of a detached retina from any trauma, like surgery, to the eye. Take me, for example. In 2011, I suffered a spontaneous retinal detachment, with no prior trauma, and no other risk factors (like glaucoma, nearsightedness, etc.). Who do I blame? god? Mother Nature? A colleague of mine had a spontaneous retinal detachment, like 10 years after a LASIK. This was also a increase incidence after a previous eye surgery. Also, you and I, with a history of an RT, have an increased risk of having another.

bwia

Coincidence. or is someone tracking my internet movements? Yesterday I watched a YouTube video on the Tesla Model 3. And within a few hours I got a couple of phone calls from Tesla (Norwood, Mass) inviting me to come in for a Model 3 test drive. Hmm, times must be tough at Tesla or their marketing is getting aggressive.

Speaking of the latest Model 3, it appears to have more tech features than the Model S. In the video mentioned above, this guy was testing the latest version of Auto Pilot ($3K + option). It performed well for the most part but on exits it was too aggressive almost scraping the road shoulder. In this Auto Pilot iteration, I believe you can drive hands-free except for certain maneuvers like lane change and exits that require at least one hand to be on the wheel.

carnaught

At this point I think that self-driving or auto pilot is just for bragging rights.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

GG....were you asking about laser eye surgery?
I heard a story on the news a few days later about this weather lady who had the surgery and the results were so bad she committed suicide. It doesn't happen often, but, there is a risk. She had a slightly different procedure done called LASIK Smile surgery.
FOX NEWS METEOROLIGIST
I had mine done over 20 years ago and so far so good.

It was me that was asking. The weather lady sounds like an urban legend. 

I don't think it is an urban legend....it has been on legit sites including ABC News....well, semi-legit.

driver100

carnaught said:

Speaking of salesmen and sales managers, it has been said that dealerships have hidden microphones.
Any other opinions on this?

I know for a fact they used to do this....I am not sure if they still have microphones in the selling room, BUT, I treat the situation like there is a microphone. So, I may say something like, "I won't pay a penny more", but, I wouldn't say "I want that car real bad".

ruking1

driver100 said:

carnaught said:

Speaking of salesmen and sales managers, it has been said that dealerships have hidden microphones.
Any other opinions on this?

I know for a fact they used to do this....I am not sure if they still have microphones in the selling room, BUT, I treat the situation like there is a microphone. So, I may say something like, "I won't pay a penny more", but, I wouldn't say "I want that car real bad".

In the figurative & literal “1984 Orwellian Times”, I think it’s safe to assume that EVERYTHING is being documented, recorded, video’d, etc., at some to all point/s in multiple life cycles.

stickguy

I just took a training course on "big data". Everything is out there. Just needs someone to want to put the pieces together, and it isn't that hard.

ruking1

stickguy said:

I just took a training course on "big data". Everything is out there. Just needs someone to want to put the pieces together, and it isn't that hard.

It’s the worst/best of times in IT 🎭!? Switching to “hacking” can have an appeal.

dino001

snakeweasel said:

dino001 said:

I remember only one time I had a "four-square" type of experience. Many years ago I came to a Mazda dealer to look into Mazda6. Test drive, OK, then the young man is insisting they put an offer together, to which I said it doesn't matter, not buying yet, but whatever, if it makes you happy, go for it. So they write down couple of numbers without any trade (I think), and then monthly payment of whatever. "Does it look good," the young man asks. "What's the interest rate here? " "I don't know, but does this look good? " "I don't know" - and I left, as I was planning anyway. But if I were buying, I'd be close to leaving at that point, too.

Not only what was the interest rate but what was the length of the loan? Also I had one dealership who was quoting me payments that was actually for a lease, so make sure if it's for a lease or not.

This one was 5-yr. loan. It was really moot, but reflecting back at that experience told me many places just hate transparency.

ruking1

dino001 said:

snakeweasel said:

dino001 said:

I remember only one time I had a "four-square" type of experience. Many years ago I came to a Mazda dealer to look into Mazda6. Test drive, OK, then the young man is insisting they put an offer together, to which I said it doesn't matter, not buying yet, but whatever, if it makes you happy, go for it. So they write down couple of numbers without any trade (I think), and then monthly payment of whatever. "Does it look good," the young man asks. "What's the interest rate here? " "I don't know, but does this look good? " "I don't know" - and I left, as I was planning anyway. But if I were buying, I'd be close to leaving at that point, too.

Not only what was the interest rate but what was the length of the loan? Also I had one dealership who was quoting me payments that was actually for a lease, so make sure if it's for a lease or not.

This one was 5-yr. loan. It was really moot, but reflecting back at that experience told me many places just hate transparency.

I’m not sure I understand. The agreements/contracts one changes, disapproves, approves, initials, ultimately signs is/are the ultimate “transparency” ? @ auto dealerships this is commonly known as “time with the finance” person.

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:

arrested them. Against PA law to bring in liquor from out of state. I believe there are conditions (around resale) but basically it was crossing state lines. And they were looking for people loading up (stocking a bar type stuff) not some dude coming back from the Jersey shore stopping for a 6 pack (though given how the PA LCB operates, would not put that past them either)

Ohio used to do that because of people going across the bridge in Cincinnati/Covington/Newport to the liquor stores for cigarettes, and liquor too. I haven't heard anything of that type for decades however.

The Ohio tax form has a line to pay sales tax on items purchased out of state on which no Ohio tax has been paid.

Yeah....used to hear of the “revenuers” sitting on the OHIO side of the Ohio River bridge waiting for those sited in KY with OH tags shopping in KY liquor/cigarette stores, so they could fine them.

Haven’t heard of that in a very long while, though. If I happen to be in KY, I’ll shop for bourbon (which, I like, but don’t drink a lot of). Aside from that, I’m not making a special trip just to buy a couple of fifths of something.

Cigarettes? Not sure the price differential between OH and KY since I don’t smoke. But, from what I hear, it’s becoming quite expensive, regardless of where you buy them. What does it cost for a pack/carton these days?

I don’t smoke either but I think it’s about $12 a pack in NY but something around $5 in Virginia. A minivan filled with a hundred cartons could make some real money.

https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/lehigh-county/2014/10/new_york_man_caught_with_938_c.html

ruking1

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:

arrested them. Against PA law to bring in liquor from out of state. I believe there are conditions (around resale) but basically it was crossing state lines. And they were looking for people loading up (stocking a bar type stuff) not some dude coming back from the Jersey shore stopping for a 6 pack (though given how the PA LCB operates, would not put that past them either)

Ohio used to do that because of people going across the bridge in Cincinnati/Covington/Newport to the liquor stores for cigarettes, and liquor too. I haven't heard anything of that type for decades however.

The Ohio tax form has a line to pay sales tax on items purchased out of state on which no Ohio tax has been paid.

Yeah....used to hear of the “revenuers” sitting on the OHIO side of the Ohio River bridge waiting for those sited in KY with OH tags shopping in KY liquor/cigarette stores, so they could fine them.

Haven’t heard of that in a very long while, though. If I happen to be in KY, I’ll shop for bourbon (which, I like, but don’t drink a lot of). Aside from that, I’m not making a special trip just to buy a couple of fifths of something.

Cigarettes? Not sure the price differential between OH and KY since I don’t smoke. But, from what I hear, it’s becoming quite expensive, regardless of where you buy them. What does it cost for a pack/carton these days?

I don’t smoke either but I think it’s about $10 a pack in NY but something around $5 in Virginia. A minivan filled with a hundred cartons could make some real money.

I’m guessing actuarials probably made the calculations as to the number of smokers that the government programs were successful in weaning. THEN calculating even more # & % taxes on the remaining pool of addicted smokers.

Just like in oil, government makes more monies than the whole (tobacco) product production chain.

oldfarmer50

carnaught said:

Speaking of salesmen and sales managers, it has been said that dealerships have hidden microphones. While the salesman makes the trip to the manager, they can listen in on the conversations taking place while they’re away. I for one tend to believe it, as Mrs. Carnaught and I have based our discussions on this very premise. Often, for example, we play “good cop, bad cop”, with one of us saying we’re not so in love with the car that we would be willing to pay more than our offer for the car. Most of the time, in our experience, it seems to be successful. The offer I make is always the “out the door” price.

Any other opinions on this?

Wouldn’t have worked on me since I went alone on my last 3 new car purchases ( once I got my marching orders from the boss). If they caught me talking to myself they might have thought I was unbalanced.

ruking1

Indeed, I’ve long since come to enjoy shopping for cars! The wife absolutely HATES it. For one TLC, I brought along my youngest daughter, when a tot and she chose the color....midnight metallic blue.

oldfarmer50

bwia said:

Coincidence. or is someone tracking my internet movements? Yesterday I watched a YouTube video on the Tesla Model 3. And within a few hours I got a couple of phone calls from Tesla (Norwood, Mass) inviting me to come in for a Model 3 test drive. Hmm, times must be tough at Tesla or their marketing is getting aggressive.

Speaking of the latest Model 3, it appears to have more tech features than the Model S. In the video mentioned above, this guy was testing the latest version of Auto Pilot ($3K + option). It performed well for the most part but on exits it was too aggressive almost scraping the road shoulder. In this Auto Pilot iteration, I believe you can drive hands-free except for certain maneuvers like lane change and exits that require at least one hand to be on the wheel.

It could be any platform you use that would sell your data to advertisers but who knows. I mentioned that I got an out of the blue contact from my Ford dealer two weeks afterI bought a new Kia. Coincidence?

stickguy

My wife also doesn’t like car shopping, but my daughter is happy to tag along.

ruking1

stickguy said:

My wife also doesn’t like car shopping, but my daughter is happy to tag along.

A lot of the dealers around here host events, like family days, etc. food, activities, attractions. So a trip to dealers can be a hoot.

I bought two cars from a GM dealership in the Napa Valley wine country.

On one purchase, I could only make Sunday to pick up the car and the dealership was closed Sunday’s. The salesman open the dealership for me. He and his family hosted my family, took us to breakfast. He let all of us check out that inventories’ offerings & filled the purchase with diesel fuel.

The next purchase, he took me for an insiders tour of the roads and back roads of the Napa Valley, CA Wine country. He was an SCCA rated racer, so I let him drive the purchase, 2001 Chevrolet Corvette Z06.😎 It was a very fast, slow tour, if you get my drift

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

I don’t smoke either but I think it’s about $12 a pack in NY but something around $5 in Virginia. A minivan filled with a hundred cartons could make some real money.

I have a friend in NC that is a devoted smoker, has been smoking for over 20 years now, started at a young age which she says was not unusual there. She tells me that depending upon the brand and if she has coupons, etc., she pays a bit over $5 a pack. She recently visited NYC and was paying $14 or more. She smokes over a pack a day so it was very expensive for her to satisfy her habit there. I suspect that there must be a huge black market active in NYC.

snakeweasel

ruking1 said:

My wife also doesn’t like car shopping, but my daughter is happy to tag along.

A lot of the dealers around here host events, like family days, etc. food, activities, attractions. So a trip to dealers can be a hoot.

There was a dealer near me that used to haveSaturday. and drinks every Saturday.

Man I miss those free lunches.

dino001

ruking1 said:

I’m not sure I understand. The agreements/contracts one changes, disapproves, approves, initials, ultimately signs is/are the ultimate “transparency” ? @ auto dealerships this is commonly known as “time with the finance” person.

That wasn't an issue. Young man insisted to pencil an offer (which was superfluous, as I wasn't buying anywhay) and he gave me at the end XX/month on 60 month loan scratched on some printed sheet. When I asked what the assumption for the interest was, he said he didn't know, yet still asked if I thought it was good. He wanted to hear "yes" for reasons I still can't comprehend. All I want, if you come out with an "offer" be ready to tell me what the details are, not just throw some number and expect me to say anything about it. But I guess some people literally buy $XX/month, so it "works" way too many times.

houdini2

dino001 said:

ruking1 said:

I’m not sure I understand. The agreements/contracts one changes, disapproves, approves, initials, ultimately signs is/are the ultimate “transparency” ? @ auto dealerships this is commonly known as “time with the finance” person.

That wasn't an issue. Young man insisted to pencil an offer (which was superfluous, as I wasn't buying anywhay) and he gave me at the end XX/month on 60 month loan scratched on some printed sheet. When I asked what the assumption for the interest was, he said he didn't know, yet still asked if I thought it was good. He wanted to hear "yes" for reasons I still can't comprehend. All I want, if you come out with an "offer" be ready to tell me what the details are, not just throw some number and expect me to say anything about it. But I guess some people literally buy $XX/month, so it "works" way too many times.

Some sales "expert" once postulated that if you get someone to say yes several times during a presentation, it is hard for them to say no when you get down to the brass tacks. I guess it might be true if you were trying to sell something to kinda slow five year old.

stickguy

they obviously never met a passive-aggressive tightwad with attachment issues.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

they obviously never met a passive-aggressive tightwad with attachment issues.

You’re being too hard on yourself. You’ve attached yourself here pretty good.

snakeweasel

dino001 said:

ruking1 said:

I’m not sure I understand. The agreements/contracts one changes, disapproves, approves, initials, ultimately signs is/are the ultimate “transparency” ? @ auto dealerships this is commonly known as “time with the finance” person.

That wasn't an issue. Young man insisted to pencil an offer (which was superfluous, as I wasn't buying anywhay) and he gave me at the end XX/month on 60 month loan scratched on some printed sheet. When I asked what the assumption for the interest was, he said he didn't know, yet still asked if I thought it was good. He wanted to hear "yes" for reasons I still can't comprehend. All I want, if you come out with an "offer" be ready to tell me what the details are, not just throw some number and expect me to say anything about it. But I guess some people literally buy $XX/month, so it "works" way too many times.

Truth be told does it really matter how they got that number? If I find a car I want and research a good price for it and my trade in, determine what I'll put down on it and shop for an interest rate. With that information I can determine what the payment would be. If the dealership can meet or beat that payment without me extending the length of the loan or increasing the down payment what do I care how they work the numbers? It's all a numbers game and in the end it boils down to cash flow.

dino001

snakeweasel said:

Truth be told does it really matter how they got that number? If I find a car I want and research a good price for it and my trade in, determine what I'll put down on it and shop for an interest rate. With that information I can determine what the payment would be. If the dealership can meet or beat that payment without me extending the length of the loan or increasing the down payment what do I care how they work the numbers? It's all a numbers game and in the end it boils down to cash flow.

It doesn't matter, if you know what you're buying and come prepared. I wasn't really buying, I was "just looking" (which I made clear), so I didn't have my numbers ready and memorized. I could have just gone home right after I got from the test drive, but I had extra 15 minutes to waste, so I humored the guy. I can be polite that way, plus I always like watching people in certain situations, for future reference. At this point he comes and says it's (just say) 400/month for 60 months, I don't really know if it's good until I sit down and run it through the calculator. I know I can afford even $600, if I wanted to, so it doesn't matter, my cashflows are way better than the car payment. I'm not a "payment" buyer, never been, hope never will. I generally don't buy anything I couldn't buy twice (well, perhaps except for the house). So it can be $400/month, it can be $800, or today $1200/month, I'd manage, without even sacrificing my lifestyle too much.

I know what the top tier APR should be for a car purchase at market rate, give or take couple of tens of percent, so it was really a simple question that demanded a simple answer - this payment is with 0 down and at X% APR, so I don't have to run my calculator to see if it's OK. He "didn't know", for obvious reasons. It was a small test, to see if I went for Mazda, would they be a good place to come back to. They failed.

ruking1

snakeweasel said:

ruking1 said:

stickguy said:

My wife also doesn’t like car shopping, but my daughter is happy to tag along.

A lot of the dealers around here host events, like family days, etc. food, activities, attractions. So a trip to dealers can be a hoot.

There was a dealer near me that used to haveSaturday. and drinks every Saturday.

Man I miss those free lunches.

Yeah, we have normally approached the events in a “lot of fun” attitude. It really is also a chance to see the latest crop of cars, like them or not.

dino001

graphicguy said:

karhill1 said:

I helped my daughter buy a Subaru a few years ago. It was a Sunday, not much traffic at the dealership. We were discussing price with a sales guy, who was moving to and from his sales manager throughout the ordeal, and agreed on a price. The sales guy said he needed a $1,000 check.

I asked why. He responded "I need to show my sales manager you are serious!?

I said "we are sitting here discussing price on a Sunday and you have gone over to the sales manager, who was sitting 20 or so feet away, on several occasions. I do not think he needs anything more from us!"

It was comical.

This was several years ago, but same thing happened when I was shopping at a Honda store. Sales person wanted a check to show his manager I was serious.

The more I think about it, the more insulting it gets. If I ever experienced something like that, I think I would literally stand up and say thanks for wasting my time you can start insulting somebody else now. That is if I'm prepared for it, if I'm not I'm not sure what I would do.

The things car salespeople would do...

explorerx4

Just renewed 2 of my Sirius Select subscriptions for a year for a total of just under $155.
Took less than 10 minutes. Pretty happy with that.

stickguy

Snake, that is my theory on leasing. I do the research up front to figure out what I'm willing to pay, and shop the payment. As long as that meets my target I don't care what numbers they have to shuffle around to get there.

dino001

explorerx4 said:

Just renewed 2 of my Sirius Select subscriptions for a year for a total of just under $155.
Took less than 10 minutes. Pretty happy with that.

I wouldn't pay $15.5 for it, but I understand if somebody wants it. I might get tempted at $1.55 for 12 months