Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

snakeweasel

Mr_Shiftright said:

You get used to it. I would find it useful, especially MPH, which I seem to struggle with.

I think you can create a heads-up (HUD) with some cell phones and a windshield bracket, but I've never seen one in action. I will investigate this and report back.

You can, I had one once on my cell phone. Worked best at night though. After a couple of times the novelty of it wore off and I never used it again so I deleted it.

stickguy

Insult you for missing a turn?

Sounds redundant if you have a wife.

fezo

"I had Cartman from South Park and John Cleese (you can imagine that) and one that would insult you if you missed a turn."

Now if I can get John Cleese insulting me for wrong turns I'd be all set.

graphicguy

Stay in SPORT mode 95% of the time in the CTS (as I did with the previous S4, Acura TL SH AWD).

Generally, they all do the same thing.....change trans shift points, usually allowing higher RPM, tightening up steering and firming up the suspension. Hate floppy steering and suspension.

roadburner

In case anyone is interested, I believe that the "Adaptive M Suspension" in the 2 has only two settings- Sport and Comfort. As for the rest of differences between the four driving modes? Here's what I've determined- based on some research and experience:

Sport+ : Suspension in Sport mode, Starts in 1st gear, 8th gear locked out in Auto mode, DSC is deactivated, Launch control is available, increased steering effort, aggressive throttle and shift mapping, cruise control unavailable(engaging cruise control switches Sport+ to Sport.

Sport: Suspension in Sport mode, Starts in 1st gear, 8th gear locked out in Auto mode, increased steering effort, aggressive throttle and shift mapping, limited configuring available via iDrive

Comfort: Suspension in Comfort mode, starts in 2nd gear, moderate steering effort, throttle and shift mapping relatively mild, Auto-stop enabled

Eco Pro: Suspension in Comfort mode, starts in second gear, moderate steering effort, very soft throttle response, transmission upshifts occur as soon as possible, engine "decoupled" (transmission goes into Neutral) when coasting, Auto-stop enabled, some comfort features cut back, limited configuration available via iDrive, not available above 80 mph.

Putting the transmission selector in Sport also gets you 1st gear starts,8th gear lockout, and disables Auto-stop. I haven't played with it enough to say with certainty how(or if) Sport mode in the transmission interacts with the other four modes.

So to recap: I use Sport+ with the autobox in either Sport or Manual when I'm in Attack Mode, Comfort when just geezing around, and Eco Pro with cruise control on the interstate(where languid throttle response and syrupy shift quality aren't issues).

cdnpinhead

All this sounds wonderful, so long as it continues to work.

I'll be waiting and watching, as you put 200K miles on this vehicle. Good luck.

nyccarguy

In my previous 328xi, it had a 6th gear lockout in "sport" mode on the transmission that I didn't care for.  If it weren't for the 6th gear lockout, I'd have probably kept the tranny in Sport mode all the time.  In town I used to keep it in Sport Mode, slid it back into Drive on the highway, & back into sport mode when I wanted to pass.  

roadburner

cdnpinhead said:

All this sounds wonderful, so long as it continues to work.

I'll be waiting and watching, as you put 200K miles on this vehicle. Good luck.

Here's my take:
The adjustable suspension(damping only) has been around for awhile(my 1993 Pathfinder had it), so I'm thinking it is pretty durable.
The 8HP transmission will get fresh fluid and a filter at 50k mile intervals. It's durable enough that several racing teams are using it. I know of several that have surpassed 150k miles, but as an autobox is always more complex a failure can occur.
EPS- can't hardly avoid that- every automaker is going that route. At least it won't leak...
Throttle mapping all takes place in the digital domain, so I don't see any reliability issues there.
Turbo? again, the price of admission to modern high performance- unless you are looking at a domestic V8.

The fact of the matter is, any new performance car can't help but be fiendishly complex- it's a result of emission and efficiency standards. An E46 M3 would have offered equivalent performance but they bring their own issues to the table- torn subframe mounts, bearing issues, etc.
To paraphrase an old bench-racing truism, speed costs simplicity, how complicated do you want to go?

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

Stay in SPORT mode 95% of the time in the CTS (as I did with the previous S4, Acura TL SH AWD).

Generally, they all do the same thing.....change trans shift points, usually allowing higher RPM, tightening up steering and firming up the suspension. Hate floppy steering and suspension.

I like it because it makes up for the higher rpms a lower rear end gear ratio would provide. My car is no slouch even with 3:15 gears but in sports mode it feels like 4:11.

sb55

@driver:

I have HUD in my 2010 BMW wagon. It was an option on the CPO car and I probably wouldn't have ordered it, but I really like it. Being a now "older" BMW, I am pretty sure it is pretty basic. But it does project the speed, and if I use the GPS, it shows turning arrows. Plus, it can be turned off.

sda

nyccarguy said:

In my previous 328xi, it had a 6th gear lockout in "sport" mode on the transmission that I didn't care for.  If it weren't for the 6th gear lockout, I'd have probably kept the tranny in Sport mode all the time.  In town I used to keep it in Sport Mode, slid it back into Drive on the highway, & back into sport mode when I wanted to pass.  

The 2 Passat automatics that I had, a 1990 with 4speed auto and a 2006 2.0t with 6 speed auto were set up the same that if you put it in Sport, which I preferred but rarely used, was programmed not to shift into the highest (4th or 6th) gear. For current models I imagine it is still set up that way today which is a shame. I haven't driven test driven a VW recently.

driver100

I took the E400 in for the B Service at 24000 miles. Had the car in by 8 a.m. and it should be ready at about 5 p.m. Glad it was covered by the service package...which I paid for, but still, easier to take when done at time of purchase.

I have a loaner, a new CLA with 2000 miles on it. I am not very impressed, not a great interior, bumpy ride, lack of power, not Mercedes bank vault solid, terrible exterior sight lines.

They would have been smarter to loan me an S Class, then I would get dissatisfied with my E. This one makes me appreciate the E400 even more.

If I was looking for a car in the CLA category there are a lot of other cars I would consider before buying one of those, I liked driving a Fusion 4 or 5 years ago a lot more. With so many good cars in that category I am sure I would find something I would like a lot more, and may even cost a lot less.

Appreciate reading your comments about HUD...looks like most people really like it!

oldfarmer50

OK you lease experts, what's your take on this? I see the big up front money but $99 a month for a Fusion sounds nice.

http://orangemotors.com/tablet/specials.html#fusion

jmonroe

'driver' said:

It was nice to sit in, comfortable and it had great views......command seating position.
He showed me the heads up display which shows all speedo and other information on the windshield, and he really likes that feature. I am just wondering....is it a really nice thing to have?
I don't know if I want that info in front of me right on my windshield.
_________________________________________________________________________

My '15 Genny has the heads up display (part of the Ultimate package) and I like it. Of all the things that are displayed it does not show the turn signals, which in my opinion would be better that some of the other stuff that is displayed. Lately, more like the last couple of years, probably age related, , I find myself not checking to see if the turn signals go off after minor left and right turns (lane changes, no problem).

FWIW, Mrs j got an offer to buy her Subie from a Subie salesman when she took her car in for an oil change the other day at the dealership. It seems that he was at the Subie service dept. and saw it was a 6 cylinder and inquired who owned the car because he had a customer who wanted a used 6 cylinder Legacy in good shape with low miles. Her car is a '12 Legacy Limited with just a few ticks under 25K miles. The salesman said he could give her a knock out price for it after he took it for a test drive and it ran as good as it looked. Her response was "no thanks, I don't want another car". The salesman said, "maybe your husband would want to hear what I can give for the car. Shouldn't he should be in on the decision"? That did it, she said she told him that it was her car and that I had nothing to do with selling her car.

Damn, all of a sudden she's the boss and can kill a deal whenever she wants to. :@

jmonroe

qbrozen

oldfarmer50 said:

OK you lease experts, what's your take on this? I see the big up front money but $99 a month for a Fusion sounds nice.

http://orangemotors.com/tablet/specials.html#fusion

Seems like roughly $205-$210 with $0 down. About the same deal they have been running for quite some time now.

ab348

driver100 said:

I have a loaner, a new CLA with 2000 miles on it. I am not very impressed, not a great interior, bumpy ride, lack of power, not Mercedes bank vault solid, terrible exterior sight lines.

They would have been smarter to loan me an S Class, then I would get dissatisfied with my E. This one makes me appreciate the E400 even more.

If I was looking for a car in the CLA category there are a lot of other cars I would consider before buying one of those, I liked driving a Fusion 4 or 5 years ago a lot more. With so many good cars in that category I am sure I would find something I would like a lot more, and may even cost a lot less.

I have not heard much good about the CLA. Too bad as it looks nice in some trims/colors - there was a red one at the dealer here with tan leather that looked quite sharp. But everyone complains about the interior and the ride and the feel not being that of a M-B. Too bad, and hard to understand how they could mess it up like that.

henryn

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

OK you lease experts, what's your take on this? I see the big up front money but $99 a month for a Fusion sounds nice.

http://orangemotors.com/tablet/specials.html#fusion

Seems like roughly $205-$210 with $0 down. About the same deal they have been running for quite some time now.

Okay, what am I missing here?

The deal looks to be $2,295 down, and then $99 per month for 36 months.

36 x 99 is $3,564. Add $2,295 for a total of $5,859. Divide that by 36, you get $162.75

What am I forgetting / overlooking / leaving out?

qbrozen

you are leaving out the interest on that down payment if you roll it into the payment, plus the fees they gloss over (acquisition, title, doc), which I am estimating to be about $1200 (actually probably even higher than that).

So I'm adding $3500 to the top line, which is about $105/mo on a 36-mo lease.

And this is all before tax, mind you.

Michaell

henryn said:

OK you lease experts, what's your take on this? I see the big up front money but $99 a month for a Fusion sounds nice. http://orangemotors.com/tablet/specials.html#fusion

Seems like roughly $205-$210 with $0 down. About the same deal they have been running for quite some time now.

Okay, what am I missing here? The deal looks to be $2,295 down, and then $99 per month for 36 months. 36 x 99 is $3,564. Add $2,295 for a total of $5,859. Divide that by 36, you get $162.75 What am I forgetting / overlooking / leaving out?

Plus tax. And the other up front costs. 

Not a bad deal, overall. 

PF_Flyer

I'm just sayin'... if it keeps raining, I'm either gonna build a boat or shop for one of these..

stickguy

you can get a pretty nice midsized car for very low 200's these days. Hard to go wrong.

Mr_Shiftright

PF_Flyer said:

I'm just sayin'... if it keeps raining, I'm either gonna build a boat or shop for one of these..

Hey you get two for the price of one---a bad car AND a bad boat!

PF_Flyer

Yea, but look how much fun I'd have looking for my red hat that obviously blew off

driver100

henryn said:

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

OK you lease experts, what's your take on this? I see the big up front money but $99 a month for a Fusion sounds nice.

http://orangemotors.com/tablet/specials.html#fusion

Seems like roughly $205-$210 with $0 down. About the same deal they have been running for quite some time now.

Okay, what am I missing here?

The deal looks to be $2,295 down, and then $99 per month for 36 months.

36 x 99 is $3,564. Add $2,295 for a total of $5,859. Divide that by 36, you get $162.75

What am I forgetting / overlooking / leaving out?

I think the big thing is no one would buy a total stripped down Fusion. It is probably a price that brings you in, then you realize you might want a/c, automatic, at least one auto adjustable seat, floor mats, etc. No mention of any of those items.

When we were looking for the 2013 Passat we wanted to see the $19995 model. They keep one around to show you so you will pay the extra $3000 to buy a car you can live with.

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

I have a loaner, a new CLA with 2000 miles on it. I am not very impressed, not a great interior, bumpy ride, lack of power, not Mercedes bank vault solid, terrible exterior sight lines.

They would have been smarter to loan me an S Class, then I would get dissatisfied with my E. This one makes me appreciate the E400 even more.

If I was looking for a car in the CLA category there are a lot of other cars I would consider before buying one of those, I liked driving a Fusion 4 or 5 years ago a lot more. With so many good cars in that category I am sure I would find something I would like a lot more, and may even cost a lot less.

I have not heard much good about the CLA. Too bad as it looks nice in some trims/colors - there was a red one at the dealer here with tan leather that looked quite sharp. But everyone complains about the interior and the ride and the feel not being that of a M-B. Too bad, and hard to understand how they could mess it up like that.

They had a red one in the showroom that I thought looked really nice. Whenever I see a CLA around I always think that it looks like it would make a nice popular priced little car. But, it is really pretty weak, I don't know if it works the way they planned....get young people into a Mercedes so they will buy another one.....this one has the opposite affect on me. As much as I hate to say anything positive about Audi after my experience with them, I liked the A4 a lot more. I know the real comparison would be an A3, but, I would spend the extra amount if I could and get an A4, and hope I don't have a problem. At least I would get some real driving pleasure from it.

[Deleted User]

jmonroe said:

The salesman said he could give her a knock out price for it after he took it for a test drive and it ran as good as it looked. Her response was "no thanks, I don't want another car". The salesman said, "maybe your husband would want to hear what I can give for the car. Shouldn't he should be in on the decision"? That did it, she said she told him that it was her car and that I had nothing to do with selling her car.

jmonroe

Dealers still think and speak like that? That's terrible. I'd encourage my wife to call the general manager and let him/her know to never contact us again.

sda

driver100 said:

henryn said:

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

OK you lease experts, what's your take on this? I see the big up front money but $99 a month for a Fusion sounds nice.

http://orangemotors.com/tablet/specials.html#fusion

Seems like roughly $205-$210 with $0 down. About the same deal they have been running for quite some time now.

Okay, what am I missing here?

The deal looks to be $2,295 down, and then $99 per month for 36 months.

36 x 99 is $3,564. Add $2,295 for a total of $5,859. Divide that by 36, you get $162.75

What am I forgetting / overlooking / leaving out?

I think the big thing is no one would buy a total stripped down Fusion. It is probably a price that brings you in, then you realize you might want a/c, automatic, at least one auto adjustable seat, floor mats, etc. No mention of any of those items.

When we were looking for the 2013 Passat we wanted to see the $19995 model. They keep one around to show you so you will pay the extra $3000 to buy a car you can live with.

That $19995 Passat has crept up to $22000+, though it now comes standard with additional equipment and has the TSI engine with automatic.

henryn

qbrozen said:

you are leaving out the interest on that down payment if you roll it into the payment, plus the fees they gloss over (acquisition, title, doc), which I am estimating to be about $1200 (actually probably even higher than that).

So I'm adding $3500 to the top line, which is about $105/mo on a 36-mo lease.

And this is all before tax, mind you.

I usually don't pay much attention to leases, as I don't think they make sense in my state (Texas). You have to pay 6.25% sales tax (around $1,500 right there), and you don't even own it. At the end of the lease, if you wanted to buy it, you would have to pay sales tax (again). Crazy, and I'm not going there.

Although there are some who would say I'm already there, but you should discount those stories. After all, I'm hanging out here with all of you perfectly fine, sane people, right?

abacomike

henryn said:

you are leaving out the interest on that down payment if you roll it into the payment, plus the fees they gloss over (acquisition, title, doc), which I am estimating to be about $1200 (actually probably even higher than that). So I'm adding $3500 to the top line, which is about $105/mo on a 36-mo lease. And this is all before tax, mind you.

I usually don't pay much attention to leases, as I don't think they make sense in my state (Texas). You have to pay 6.25% sales tax (around $1,500 right there), and you don't even own it. At the end of the lease, if you wanted to buy it, you would have to pay sales tax (again). Crazy, and I'm not going there. Although there are some who would say I'm already there, but you should discount those stories. After all, I'm hanging out here with all of you perfectly fine, sane people, right?

Speak for yourself, henryn!!! 

abacomike

We are under a flood warning and severe weather warning again.  The Lightning is horrific and the rain is some of the worst I've seen in years - it's coming down in sheets so thick you can't see 200 feet in front of you.  Supposed to continue through tonight - part of a front coming down the penninsula.  Scary with all this lightning.

driver100

henryn said:

qbrozen said:

you are leaving out the interest on that down payment if you roll it into the payment, plus the fees they gloss over (acquisition, title, doc), which I am estimating to be about $1200 (actually probably even higher than that).

So I'm adding $3500 to the top line, which is about $105/mo on a 36-mo lease.

And this is all before tax, mind you.

I usually don't pay much attention to leases, as I don't think they make sense in my state (Texas). You have to pay 6.25% sales tax (around $1,500 right there), and you don't even own it. At the end of the lease, if you wanted to buy it, you would have to pay sales tax (again). Crazy, and I'm not going there.

Although there are some who would say I'm already there, but you should discount those stories. After all, I'm hanging out here with all of you perfectly fine, sane people, right?

But, you probably pay 6.25% sales tax only on the part of the car you use. So, if you lease for $200 a month for 36 months you pay taxes on $7200, not on the full $20000 the car may cost.

If you do buy the car back at the end of the lease, you only pay tax on the residual value of the car, probably about $14000. If you opt not to buy the car you only paid tax on $7200, not the full $20000.

Leasing isn't right for most people, but it is an excellent option for many people depending on their situation.

cdnpinhead

But at least the humidity is horrific and bugs are everywhere. What's not to like?

Mr_Shiftright

Lightning and thunder have nothing to do with Mother Nature. It's caused by giants bowling in the clouds.

tommister2

henryn said:

qbrozen said:

you are leaving out the interest on that down payment if you roll it into the payment, plus the fees they gloss over (acquisition, title, doc), which I am estimating to be about $1200 (actually probably even higher than that).

So I'm adding $3500 to the top line, which is about $105/mo on a 36-mo lease.

And this is all before tax, mind you.

I usually don't pay much attention to leases, as I don't think they make sense in my state (Texas). You have to pay 6.25% sales tax (around $1,500 right there), and you don't even own it. At the end of the lease, if you wanted to buy it, you would have to pay sales tax (again). Crazy, and I'm not going there.

Although there are some who would say I'm already there, but you should discount those stories. After all, I'm hanging out here with all of you perfectly fine, sane people, right?

Same in VA. They call it title tax instead of sales tax, and it is 4% of the total sales price (not just the part you use). I did buy one car that way, back when the tax was 3%. It was not pleasant to pay that on both transactions plus the $400 dealer processing charge twice.

It can still make sense to lease if the lease is heavily subsidized. I doubt I will ever lease again unless I move out of Virginia.

sda

henryn said:

qbrozen said:

you are leaving out the interest on that down payment if you roll it into the payment, plus the fees they gloss over (acquisition, title, doc), which I am estimating to be about $1200 (actually probably even higher than that).

So I'm adding $3500 to the top line, which is about $105/mo on a 36-mo lease.

And this is all before tax, mind you.

I usually don't pay much attention to leases, as I don't think they make sense in my state (Texas). You have to pay 6.25% sales tax (around $1,500 right there), and you don't even own it. At the end of the lease, if you wanted to buy it, you would have to pay sales tax (again). Crazy, and I'm not going there.

Although there are some who would say I'm already there, but you should discount those stories. After all, I'm hanging out here with all of you perfectly fine, sane people, right?

Any nibbles on the DTS? That is a sharp looking car.

henryn

sda said:

henryn said:

qbrozen said:

you are leaving out the interest on that down payment if you roll it into the payment, plus the fees they gloss over (acquisition, title, doc), which I am estimating to be about $1200 (actually probably even higher than that).

So I'm adding $3500 to the top line, which is about $105/mo on a 36-mo lease.

And this is all before tax, mind you.

I usually don't pay much attention to leases, as I don't think they make sense in my state (Texas). You have to pay 6.25% sales tax (around $1,500 right there), and you don't even own it. At the end of the lease, if you wanted to buy it, you would have to pay sales tax (again). Crazy, and I'm not going there.

Although there are some who would say I'm already there, but you should discount those stories. After all, I'm hanging out here with all of you perfectly fine, sane people, right?

Any nibbles on the DTS? That is a sharp looking car.

I have gotten a few messages on the DTS, all wanting to know if I will take some amount less than what I'm asking. I politely decline. I've never understood the point of negotiating BEFORE you see the car. You need to see it first, drive it, make up your mind if you want it. At least, that is the way I go about it.

And on the lease -- here in Texas you pay the full boat, 6.25% up front. Or I should perhaps say the leasing company has to pay it, and if you think they aren't going to pass that on to you, well...

And as the car is owned by the leasing company, not you, then when the lease is up, if you want to buy it, then you pay 6.25% on the residual. So if the negotiated price is $25,000, and the residual is $15,000, you have to pay 6.25% up front against the $25,000, or $1,562.50. Then, in 3 years, if you want to keep the car, you have to pay 6.25% against the residual $15,000, or another $937.50 in sales tax.

Like I said, crazy.

qbrozen

driver100 said:

I think the big thing is no one would buy a total stripped down Fusion. It is probably a price that brings you in, then you realize you might want a/c, automatic, at least one auto adjustable seat, floor mats, etc. No mention of any of those items.

When we were looking for the 2013 Passat we wanted to see the $19995 model. They keep one around to show you so you will pay the extra $3000 to buy a car you can live with.

To be fair, Ford keeps advertising their screamer Fusion deal on an SE model with Sound & Sync package. That's what my BIL got based on that ad. Its definitely not a stripped down model by any means. I believe it is even a power seat.

henryn

@stever, did you see the new incentives that just came out on the Kia Soul? Zero percent financing up to 60 months, and they will make your first two payments.

stever

Cool. Now if I could just fine one like I want that's a bit closer than Dallas (that one won't work because it's got hail damage). Thanks!

stickguy

you keep it forever, and use your car as a truck, so who cares about some pings? Get enough off to make it worthwhile, and go for it!

stever

lol, you guys know me too well.

The other issue is that the "repaired" price (after the "bait and switch" internet price) was higher than my local quote.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

OK you lease experts, what's your take on this? I see the big up front money but $99 a month for a Fusion sounds nice.

http://orangemotors.com/tablet/specials.html#fusion

Seems like roughly $205-$210 with $0 down. About the same deal they have been running for quite some time now.

Would you say that the way to go at a negotiation in this case is to try to reduce the up front money?

henryn

A couple of years ago we had a really big hail storm here in my part of town. The local Ford dealer was offering "huge discounts" on hail damaged cars. Hah!

The most interesting part, I had gotten a better offer the week before, when the truck wasn't damaged. With a slight bit of negotiating, of course. And the "hail damage" prices were so low, there was no room for negotiation. So I was supposed to pay $300 more for the same truck AFTER it was damaged?

You can't make this stuff up, folks. The truth is stranger than fiction!

On second thought, @stever : maybe that desert protection package would have prevented the hail damage.

oldfarmer50

henryn said:

sda said:

henryn said:

qbrozen said:

you are leaving out the interest on that down payment if you roll it into the payment, plus the fees they gloss over (acquisition, title, doc), which I am estimating to be about $1200 (actually probably even higher than that).

So I'm adding $3500 to the top line, which is about $105/mo on a 36-mo lease.

And this is all before tax, mind you.

I usually don't pay much attention to leases, as I don't think they make sense in my state (Texas). You have to pay 6.25% sales tax (around $1,500 right there), and you don't even own it. At the end of the lease, if you wanted to buy it, you would have to pay sales tax (again). Crazy, and I'm not going there.

Although there are some who would say I'm already there, but you should discount those stories. After all, I'm hanging out here with all of you perfectly fine, sane people, right?

Any nibbles on the DTS? That is a sharp looking car.

I have gotten a few messages on the DTS, all wanting to know if I will take some amount less than what I'm asking. I politely decline. I've never understood the point of negotiating BEFORE you see the car. You need to see it first, drive it, make up your mind if you want it. At least, that is the way I go about it.

And on the lease -- here in Texas you pay the full boat, 6.25% up front. Or I should perhaps say the leasing company has to pay it, and if you think they aren't going to pass that on to you, well...

And as the car is owned by the leasing company, not you, then when the lease is up, if you want to buy it, then you pay 6.25% on the residual. So if the negotiated price is $25,000, and the residual is $15,000, you have to pay 6.25% up front against the $25,000, or $1,562.50. Then, in 3 years, if you want to keep the car, you have to pay 6.25% against the residual $15,000, or another $937.50 in sales tax.

Like I said, crazy.

I agree, asking if you will take less before seeing the car is insulting. Might be a dealer/flipper testing to see if he could pick it up cheap or someone thinking you might be desperate. To me, anyone that desperate probably knows something is really wrong with the car.

On the lease tax thing. I think NY is similar although I'd have to check. IIRC in NY you actually have to BUY a leased car and they word the contract that after 3 years you have a balloon payment equal to the residual. This was because some sleazy lawyers sued GM for $20 million years ago as the actual owner of a car that crashed.

So since you technically own the whole car you have to pay the tax on the whole thing.

Getting nailed again on the residual if you buy at lease end does sound crazy.

This is why I shy away from leases.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

I think the big thing is no one would buy a total stripped down Fusion. It is probably a price that brings you in, then you realize you might want a/c, automatic, at least one auto adjustable seat, floor mats, etc. No mention of any of those items.

When we were looking for the 2013 Passat we wanted to see the $19995 model. They keep one around to show you so you will pay the extra $3000 to buy a car you can live with.

To be fair, Ford keeps advertising their screamer Fusion deal on an SE model with Sound & Sync package. That's what my BIL got based on that ad. Its definitely not a stripped down model by any means. I believe it is even a power seat.

The dealer who is running that lease ad has 27 Fusion SEs in inventory. Some sticker for $30k. You have to email for "details". Maybe like driver said they have one stripper they use as bait.

Michaell

A few points of clarification on leasing.

There are a handful of states where sales tax is applied to the entire selling price - GA, TX, MD and VA. For TX, I guess that's the price you pay for having no income tax.

In Texas, some luxury brands that rely heavily on leasing offer 'tax credits' to mitigate that pain. I've had posters relate stories that the sales tax can be reduced to 1%.

In NY, you pay tax on the sum of the payments. Up front, or you can add that amount to the cap cost that is subject to interest.

NY changed their laws a few years ago to allow leasing again - IIRC, there was an issue about liability on leased cars that were involved in accidents. Victims were successfully suing the lease company for damages, so manufacturers only allowed 'balloon' loans, as the car was in the buyers name.

stickguy

Drove me nuts when I was selling on CL, getting those people basically making a real lowball offer without asking a question or wanting to see it. Depending on my mood I either deleted or answered No. A few were actually just people that didn't have enough money, so I guess it made no sense to waste time if I wasn't interested. Though they certainly could explain that up front, which no one tended to do.

Lot of aggravation to just save some money, but worth it when I was able to clear 3K above the trade offer (my best deal, but I always pocketed at least 1K).

stickguy

Farmer, I know it is "wrong" but when I leased, I just worked off the payment. I had worked out in advance what my screamer deal bottom line monthly payment was, and as long as they met it I did not really care how they got there. This was after soliciting here and other places to figure out what the cost should be.

to be consistent, I gave them all the same terms. 3/36, and I would write a check for $1,000 at drive off. So from my standpoint, the only variable was what the 35 other payments were going to be!

not really (to me) much difference than what GG or others do when buying. Figure out a buy price, and what their trade is worth, and making a total offer (old car + $xx) to drive off in the new one. How the dealer gets there, that is up to them.

driver100

Stick - to be consistent, I gave them all the same terms. 3/36, and I would write a check for $1,000 at drive off. So from my standpoint, the only variable was what the 35 other payments were going to be!

Stick, isn't another variable the buy back price?

I found that can vary a lot, and the monthly can change considerably.....if people only look at the monthly they may actually end up paying more.

oldfarmer50

In NY, you pay tax on the sum of the payments. Up front, or you can add that amount to the cap cost that is subject to interest.

Really? Not the total MSRP? So on that $99 36mo Fusion deal the sales tax would be only on the aprox $3600 total of payments?

Stickguy's method has it's merits.