Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

imidazol97

fintail said:

I like the out of state ticket revenue theory about front plates, at least in places like the south where speed traps are a real revenue stream.

I heard that from folks who'd gotten a ticket on the way to Key West. They said others were speeding faster than they were, but the Ohio front license plates made the car stand out as an easy ticket.

oldfarmer50

dino001 said:

abacomike said:

There has to be a logical reason as to why some states like New York and California require front and rear license plates (we call them "tags" down here).  We go to "tag" agencies to renew our "tags" or acquire handicap parking placards.  

Same reason, as most of the world - ability to identify from both front and back. The question can be reversed - why Florida and several other places require tags only in the back?

There is only one reason government does anything these days....control.

imidazol97

On the subject of forgetfulness or the lack thereof, I got an email with a senior test for how sharp our minds are. I'll share the version here.

Here's a link to one version. Good luck.
http://stc.uws.edu.au/popcomm/assets/memory_test.pdf

oldfarmer50

imidazol97 said:

fintail said:

I like the out of state ticket revenue theory about front plates, at least in places like the south where speed traps are a real revenue stream.

Ohio requires a front plate and many have tried to trivialize not having the place showing. In Cincy, the UC campus police were told to patrol around the campus because of huge problems with crime off-campus from the civilians of the city targeting the college youth. A cop saw a questionable car with no front plate, ran the plate and found it came back to an owner with DL suspended. Stopped vehicle and found an uncooperative goofus with roughly 50 brushes with law on his record. After a lot of shucking and jiving, the perp started to drive away instead of exiting the car and instead of turning off the car as ordered. Policeman had reached over for the key as the driver accelerated and was bumped by the car as it moved and shot the driver.

So the mantra became that the police shot the driver for no front license plate instead of the police shot the driver who refused to exit and started moving car with wheels cut left to miss the parked car in front of him. Oh, perp had a kilo of weed and $2700 cash in the car. First trial was a mistrial.

The front plate issue has been made into a trivial law breaking violation by some of the whiners. But the joke in our area was that we wonder which car they put the other of the two license plates on when it's not on the front of a car here. You get 2 for 1 when you pay your $35 registration fee. LOL

One trick the underworld pulls around here it to steal the front license plate off two cars and put both on a third.

fintail

I believe it. Some of those interstates are known speed traps (just like some useless little holes in the wall in Ohio some time ago, hopefully not near you). I suspect vehicles seen as rental cars are also easy pickings.

Regarding front plates, I don't mind them - it's a standard thing in the rest of the developed world. I notice many of the states that don't require them aren't exactly leaders in any human development indices

imidazol97 said:

I heard that from folks who'd gotten a ticket on the way to Key West. They said others were speeding faster than they were, but the Ohio front license plates made the car stand out as an easy ticket.

cdnpinhead

fintail said:

I notice many of the states that don't require them aren't exactly leaders in any human development indices.

This is most certainly true. I live in Arizona. No front plates here.

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

I like the out of state ticket revenue theory about front plates, at least in places like the south where speed traps are a real revenue stream.

Front plates have been mandatory in WA since the dawn of time, but I see endless high end vehicles on the eastside suburbs of Seattle without them. Exotics and especially Teslas seem to be the most frequent sightings - I suspect as some element of the enforcement of such laws is based on the wealth of the offender, if you can lay down the money for a Model X (which I seldom see with a front plate), you are immune. In the 21st century socio-economic reality, this makes sense.

In Berkeley, they will ticket you even when you are parked without a front plate. Ask me how I know

I vowed after that to never spend another dime in Berkeley, and so far, three years later, I've made good on that.

jmonroe

suydam said:

Once the license plate is on I never look at it again except to find my car at the mall. If they're giving me a free holder, fine by me!

Not me. The frame comes off as soon as I get home.

The dealer decal comes off as soon as Mrs. j says it's OK to use her hair dryer.

Now those are fetishes. Waxing ain't.

jmonroe

js06gv

stickguy said:

why the big fuss about a front plate? As long as the car is designed to have a place for one. Maybe on a Ferrari it could be an issue!

I am near PA, and they don't have a front plate (but we do in Jersey). So cars there usually come with the bracket (factory delivered) in the trunk. Which was a problem for me, because I forgot to look and they forgot to put it on. So when the plates arrived in the mail, I had to decide between a long drive to the dealer, or pulling out tools. I got brave, and got tools. Easy job though. Had slots to line it up, so impossible to get on crooked. and even said what drill bit to use.

and once it is on, never coming off, so the holes don't matter to me.

a side benefit to a front plate? Acts like a bumper protector. small parking lot taps get absorbed by the bracket or plate, and the expensive fascia doesn't get broken.

No big fuss. Ruins the front end lines of a nice car. My truck, I could care less. Personal preference.

venture

ab348 said:

Good story on the tail lights, @jmonroe. Reminds me of what some owners of C2 Corvettes used to do by installing a third stop lamp on each side. I thought that looked good.

Back in the late 60's I knew a guy who had a Corvette body/speed shop. When people who had '63 coupes came in to get the bar cut out of the back window and have the '64 and later back window put in , he talked them into changing out their all fiberglass headlight buckets for the more "modern" metal ones.

He, of course, quoted them a price with them leaving the bar and the old headlight buckets behind. Later he made a small fortune selling those parts.

A few he even talked into putting in the third tail light.

driver100

verdugo said:

driver100 said:

Why does video storage cost $100 a year? Is there much of a reason to store? How long can a loop last...1 or 2 days or 30 days? I have no idea!

Hi driver, not sure if somebody answered the question since I have a lot of posts, but here it goes.

$100 gets you 7 days storage. My outdoor camera uploads about 20 GB per day. So 140 GB per week, but it's more than the storage.

It's also the capability to go back and search the footage, you get alerts, you can set up specific zone alerts (highlight a door, ignore the doggie door,) create time lapse videos, etc.

The point is that you pay for more than just the storage. Additional cameras are only $50/year.

Thanks Verdugo, all good information. I am learning a lot about security cameras. For example, I thought I wanted one that was wireless, but that isn't good for a community system. It will go on whenever someone comes and goes, and really drain the power. Also, they are slow to start, as they don't start recording until object is in the middle of the screen. Works best from a side view too, head on - where the license is may not even start it. Still have lots of research to do.

driver100

I don't get why they allow NO front plates on cars.

If someone is going to run me over I at least want to get a chance of trying to see his plate.

driver100

Michaell....hope you made it buddy!

driver100

Another thing about front plates....if I get this security system installed it would be nice to be able to record license plates.....that's the whole idea!

stickguy

I recall now that when I got my Miata, it was previously owned in PA. so, I had to go to dealer and buy a front bracket (which they installed). But it was a good design. It bolted in up behind the bumper, and a C bracket looped out front, and plate attached to that. So, no holes drilled, and you could take off bracket at any time.

berri

I wonder if Illinois requires a front plate because some big political donor, or politician owns a company that makes them

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

I recall now that when I got my Miata, it was previously owned in PA. so, I had to go to dealer and buy a front bracket (which they installed). But it was a good design. It bolted in up behind the bumper, and a C bracket looped out front, and plate attached to that. So, no holes drilled, and you could take off bracket at any time.

That's what my prelude has.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

I don't get why they allow NO front plates on cars.

If someone is going to run me over I at least want to get a chance of trying to see his plate.

All kinds of opinions here but I really don't understand wanting to see who is running you over via a front plate. I'd rather get the plate number via the rear plate, at least that proves that I survived the hit a little longer.

FWIW, PA only has a rear plate which figures...we don't have a lot to offer around here.

jmonroe

sda

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

I don't get why they allow NO front plates on cars.

If someone is going to run me over I at least want to get a chance of trying to see his plate.

All kinds of opinions here but I really don't understand wanting to see who is running you over via a front plate. I'd rather get the plate number via the rear plate, at least that proves that I survived the hit a little longer.

FWIW, PA only has a rear plate which figures...we don't have a lot to offer around here.

jmonroe

I know better

isellhondas

fintail said:

I like the out of state ticket revenue theory about front plates, at least in places like the south where speed traps are a real revenue stream.

Front plates have been mandatory in WA since the dawn of time, but I see endless high end vehicles on the eastside suburbs of Seattle without them. Exotics and especially Teslas seem to be the most frequent sightings - I suspect as some element of the enforcement of such laws is based on the wealth of the offender, if you can lay down the money for a Model X (which I seldom see with a front plate), you are immune. In the 21st century socio-economic reality, this makes sense.

Depends on the cop and how busy he is whether or not he's going to bug you about a front plate. If you are
stopped for another kind of violation he WILL write you for no front plate!

abacomike

Down here in Florida, new cars come, for the most part, with the front plate mounting package.  Mine is in the trunk and all my previous new cars had the mounting package in the trunk.  Many snowbirds buy there cars down here because of the competitive pricing of new cars and then drive back to New Jersey and New York where they require front plates.  Some new car manufacturers are starting to deliver new cars to Florida without the front mount and charge the customer $10.00 plus labor to install the front mount.

oldfarmer50

I

Mr_Shiftright said:

fintail said:

I like the out of state ticket revenue theory about front plates, at least in places like the south where speed traps are a real revenue stream.

Front plates have been mandatory in WA since the dawn of time, but I see endless high end vehicles on the eastside suburbs of Seattle without them. Exotics and especially Teslas seem to be the most frequent sightings - I suspect as some element of the enforcement of such laws is based on the wealth of the offender, if you can lay down the money for a Model X (which I seldom see with a front plate), you are immune. In the 21st century socio-economic reality, this makes sense.

In Berkeley, they will ticket you even when you are parked without a front plate. Ask me how I know

I vowed after that to never spend another dime in Berkeley, and so far, three years later, I've made good on that.

That's how I drove KMart into bankruptcy.

jipster

For those without heated car seats, like me, this product works really well. I recieved this product for Xmas. Has come in handy with our recent cold Arctic weather. Heats both backsides. Can really put out the heat too. I'm Edmunds tough, and even I have to unplug it after 20 minutes. 


AmazonBasics 12 volt heated seat cushion. $20

Has 3 way temperature control, but one of the settings is off. 

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

Down here in Florida, new cars come, for the most part, with the front plate mounting package.  Mine is in the trunk and all my previous new cars had the mounting package in the trunk.  Many snowbirds buy there cars down here because of the competitive pricing of new cars and then drive back to New Jersey and New York where they require front plates.  Some new car manufacturers are starting to deliver new cars to Florida without the front mount and charge the customer $10.00 plus labor to install the front mount.

The pricing is competitive even with those crazy doc fees?

driver100

I caught a mistake in the novel I am reading. It is a first time book called The Professor. The Law Professor is helping a young lady student carry her books across the parking lot to help he load them into her car....which the author says is a white Mustang hatchback. She puts her purse down, and he takes out her key, and opens the back door and puts the books into the car.

What is wrong with this scene?

A Mustang doesn't have a back door!

driver100

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

I don't get why they allow NO front plates on cars.

If someone is going to run me over I at least want to get a chance of trying to see his plate.

All kinds of opinions here but I really don't understand wanting to see who is running you over via a front plate. I'd rather get the plate number via the rear plate, at least that proves that I survived the hit a little longer.

FWIW, PA only has a rear plate which figures...we don't have a lot to offer around here.

jmonroe

But what if you see the front plate, and then are knocked unconscious when the bumper hits your head?

nyccarguy

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:

Down here in Florida, new cars come, for the most part, with the front plate mounting package.  Mine is in the trunk and all my previous new cars had the mounting package in the trunk.  Many snowbirds buy there cars down here because of the competitive pricing of new cars and then drive back to New Jersey and New York where they require front plates.  Some new car manufacturers are starting to deliver new cars to Florida without the front mount and charge the customer $10.00 plus labor to install the front mount.

The pricing is competitive even with those crazy doc fees?

Yes. That's where they make a lot of money (on the sales side anyway). They sell BIG volumes of new cars in FLA. between the sales goal kick backs from the manufacturer & doc fees that range from $599 - $999, that's guaranteed money they make on EVERY car they sell. In NY/NJ/CT where a lot of snowbirds are from, there just isn't the real estate to support the volume of cars they sell in Florida.

nyccarguy

Thanks guys for all the kind words about my snow covered slice of New England. Send me your address @jmonroe & I'll send a Chanukah card your way:).

@fintail - it looks much better from the front than from the basement. Reconstruction starts on Thursday.

I appreciate all of your support.

PF_Flyer

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

I don't get why they allow NO front plates on cars.

If someone is going to run me over I at least want to get a chance of trying to see his plate.

All kinds of opinions here but I really don't understand wanting to see who is running you over via a front plate. I'd rather get the plate number via the rear plate, at least that proves that I survived the hit a little longer.

FWIW, PA only has a rear plate which figures...we don't have a lot to offer around here.

jmonroe

But what if you see the front plate, and then are knocked unconscious when the bumper hits your head?

Front plates for more info on any possible identification for sure, which brings to mind one of my bugaboos. There are so may different PA plates now (as in other states as well) that knowing what state a vehicle is from at a glance is almost impossible. Might be boring, but the state plate being the state plate seems to make sense to me.

"I didn't catch the number, but it was definitely a PA plate..."

imidazol97

berri said:

I wonder if Illinois requires a front plate because some big political donor, or politician owns a company that makes them

Ours are made by the prison system of Ohio. Inmates are paid minimum wages to work.
"Ohio Penal Industries at the Lebanon Correctional Institution."

Illinois should have lots of inmates available to do the same, including some expoliticians.

imidazol97

@fintail Mentioned speed traps in Ohio...

One is/was part of metro Columbus, tucked within the circle freeway on a major road.

"So Brice’s lone police officer, who also is the police chief, is staying one step ahead yet again. Chief Chris Iacone says he plans use a speed camera in Brice, which he would operate. This conforms with a law that bars municipalities from using traffic cameras unless an officer is present to witness the infraction. Iacone would be able to record a motorist speeding and send him the ticket later. This is a technique pioneered by police in Youngstown and Newburgh Heights, which position police with radar and cameras atop highway overpasses to snap photos of speeders, who won’t know they’ve been busted until days later, when they receive a civil-violation citation in the mail."

There's more interesting conflict between the Ohio legislature's attempts to shut down this speed trap in the article. An effete legislative body in my opinion. Why didn't they just legislate that Brice could not collect fees from motorists in any way shape or form. LOL

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/editorials/2015/11/28/1-brice-finds-another-way.html

abacomike

oldfarmer50 said:

Down here in Florida, new cars come, for the most part, with the front plate mounting package.  Mine is in the trunk and all my previous new cars had the mounting package in the trunk.  Many snowbirds buy there cars down here because of the competitive pricing of new cars and then drive back to New Jersey and New York where they require front plates.  Some new car manufacturers are starting to deliver new cars to Florida without the front mount and charge the customer $10.00 plus labor to install the front mount.

The pricing is competitive even with those crazy doc fees?

Yep!  I could never deal for pricing as well in Chicago or New York or California dealerships.  Maybe it's me - I learned everything I know about buying cars from being in the business and from EDMUNDS!!!  I've only been using Edmunds for 7-8 years and in the car business for 17 years.  Yep - if I knew what I know now I coulda shoulda dealt better when I lived in those States!!!

abacomike

PF_Flyer said:

I don't get why they allow NO front plates on cars. If someone is going to run me over I at least want to get a chance of trying to see his plate.

All kinds of opinions here but I really don't understand wanting to see who is running you over via a front plate. I'd rather get the plate number via the rear plate, at least that proves that I survived the hit a little longer. FWIW, PA only has a rear plate which figures...we don't have a lot to offer around here. jmonroe

But what if you see the front plate, and then are knocked unconscious when the bumper hits your head?

Front plates for more info on any possible identification for sure, which brings to mind one of my bugaboos. There are so may different PA plates now (as in other states as well) that knowing what state a vehicle is from at a glance is almost impossible. Might be boring, but the state plate being the state plate seems to make sense to me. "I didn't catch the number, but it was definitely a PA plate..."

Here in Florida, there are over 60 different options for plates - from save The Manatees, the Panther, the Everglades...to Teacher's, Children, all State Colleges, All State Pro Teams...and just about anything you could associate with the State of Florida.

I have the Save The Panthers plate - but you pay an arm and a leg for the special plates - $75.00 a year more for registration - the extra money goes to the non-profit organization the plate represents.

fintail

Amusing. I like the idea of forcefully disbanding the municipality altogether - I think that has happened in the past, maybe even in Ohio. As these places have no real reason to exist other than ticket generation, why not? I guess they haven't ticketed the right arrogant out of towner who could stroll in with a good big city lawyer and rake them over the coals. Ohio has a rep for this, and it isn't a good one. But it's all for safety I am sure, think of the children! Not ego and money, nope. I suppose at least in these cases, the FOP sticker can't be used, unless the brave radar operator can spot it from a distance

imidazol97 said:

@fintail Mentioned speed traps in Ohio...

One is/was part of metro Columbus, tucked within the circle freeway on a major road.


There's more interesting conflict between the Ohio legislature's attempts to shut down this speed trap in the article. An effete legislative body in my opinion. Why didn't they just legislate that Brice could not collect fees from motorists in any way shape or form. LOL

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/editorials/2015/11/28/1-brice-finds-another-way.html

stickguy

Just booked a rental for my Ireland trip in April. Went with a compact (focus or eqivilent) since will have 4 people. Almost same exact price for a mondeo, but went small due to tight roads. And man, they soak you for an AT. I would have gotten stick, but then no one else could drive. Darn.

Hopefully I get some different brand. Could be a golf too. I can drive a focus here. But not a skoda or Opel.

imidazol97

Ohio has a rep for this, and it isn't a good one.

fintail said:

Ohio has a rep for this, and it isn't a good one.

I don't agree that Ohio has reputation for small town speedtraps if you mean more so than many Southern towns and even sheriff and highway patrols. I recall my first drives into the South for vacations I noticed "locals" drove like Hades between exits and slowed down about half a mile before an exit. Then I noticed a few officers on top of the overpasses running a radar. Those same folks driving in Ohio still slowed for exits, but in Ohio the officers use random locations, rarely operating a radar sting from exit overpasses. It's funny to see the Georgia and Tennessee drivers slow down around exits and then speed back up to aggressive driver state dominating the left lanes.

Ohio has had a reputation with TRUCKERS for their thorough enforcement of the speed laws. I believe they used to be 55 or 60 for trucks and 65 for autos on most interstate and specified limited access roads. Truckers drove through Indiana at 65 or 70 limits and speeding far above those and found no enforcement. Then they hit Ohio and found enforcement of the 60 mph for trucks. Many of the truckers are the independents and deserved exactly what they got, in my opinion. Rarely were the truckers driving for Yellow, Roadway, ABF, and others getting stopped. Often the independents had safety violations. On the other hand, now the stupid legislators raised the limit on most interstates rural to 70 cars and 70 trucks. Not good.

cdnpinhead

stickguy said:

Just booked a rental for my Ireland trip in April.
Hopefully I get some different brand. Could be a golf too. I can drive a focus here. But not a skoda or Opel.

Since you'll be buying your own fuel, you might want to try to get a diesel. Diesel fuel costs less in the UK (or did when I was last there), and the diesel fuel mileage has always exceeded 40 mp (U.S.) gallon.

stickguy

A lot of the models were listed as diesel. Not sure what I will get though, but should be economical. The AT options seem to be limited.

ab348

My understanding is that front plates are sought when the state/province/municipality is using photo radar and red light cameras.

stickguy

They just click the front and the back to make it work. Same with tolls that read tags.

abacomike

With front and rear plates, the police got you coming and going!  Here in Florida, they got you going, but not coming!!!

dino001

stickguy said:

Just booked a rental for my Ireland trip in April. Went with a compact (focus or eqivilent) since will have 4 people. Almost same exact price for a mondeo, but went small due to tight roads. And man, they soak you for an AT. I would have gotten stick, but then no one else could drive. Darn.

Hopefully I get some different brand. Could be a golf too. I can drive a focus here. But not a skoda or Opel.

I'd still get the Mondeo (and like). The problem lies usually not really in tight roads, but in parking spaces (garages, and lots), especially in big cities next to busy places. Drove my 328 in German cities and back roads and it was just fine, except this parking garage in Cologne's (Koeln) downtown (near the famous Cathedral), where the exit radius was ridiculous, such that you could see a full rainbow of colors on that pole (I avoided the fate, but it was a close call). I also regularly drive my late dad's A4 in Poland, which has terrible roads with even worse drivers - and still OK. BTW, I think Skoda Octavia and Opel Astra would be just fine as rental vehicles. No need for prejudice.

suydam

The Ford Focus in Europe is much different than here. It was really nice. Get the smaller car. You'll be glad you did.

fintail

According to this, OH is #4 - of course, one can debate the methodology. No doubt the state highways in southern states are speed trap bonanzas, every little podunk intersection masquerading as a town will have enforcement at times. Now that I think of it, the trap town that was disbanded due to illicit enforcement might have been in FL, which is crazyland at a different level.

It always irks me how states can have 5mph differences in speed limits simply by crossing an imaginary line. Is there justifiable reason for this? Why are the enforcers and rule makers never forced to justify their policies? It's the same from WA to OR, the latter of which has huge amounts of underposted limits, which is saying something with the low limits in much of WA.

imidazol97 said:

I don't agree that Ohio has reputation for small town speedtraps if you mean more so than many Southern towns and even sheriff and highway patrols. I recall my first drives into the South for vacations I noti raised the limit on most interstates rural to 70 cars and 70 trucks. Not good.

fintail

I remember having an A8 rental from Germany, which I was immediately thrilled with. No issues until I was in Basel, in a parking garage. No spots big enough for it (if I wanted to open my door anyway), and the corner turning area was hilarious. Fold in the mirrors and hope for the best, and be glad you bought the full insurance. I wouldn't choose something so big again, as it was more like a super-sized A6 anyway. My last Euro rental ended up being an X5, which gave me no real issues even with tight parking in Italy, I could make it fit. I'll still choose a larger car, but not specifically a barge like the A8, unless I got it as a free upgrade.

For stickguy's rental, it could end up being a lot of things, as Euro fleets are more diverse than here.

dino001 said:

I'd still get the Mondeo (and like). The problem lies usually not really in tight roads, but in parking spaces (garages, and lots), especially in big cities next to busy places. Drove my 328 in German cities and back roads and it was just fine, except this parking garage in Cologne's (Koeln) downtown (near the famous Cathedral), where the exit radius was ridiculous, such that you could see a full rainbow of colors on that pole (I avoided the fate, but it was a close call). I also regularly drive my late dad's A4 in Poland, which has terrible roads with even worse drivers - and still OK. BTW, I think Skoda Octavia and Opel Astra would be just fine as rental vehicles. No need for prejudice.

fintail

In WA anyway, I think front plate laws go back to the 30s at the latest. I am pretty sure it is the same in other countries, where states aren't able to have such wacky individual policies. Have any states or provinces recently switched to requiring two?

Front plates can impact the looks of a car, but I don't see the issue otherwise. If big brother wants to give you a ticket, he will find a way.

ab348 said:

My understanding is that front plates are sought when the state/province/municipality is using photo radar and red light cameras.

stickguy

ill stick with the compact. Prefer that anyway. And have been told by others that a lot of the country lanes are really narrow and tight. Just my kids in the back, and how much room do they really need? Lucky I didn't rent an Up!

ab348

fintail said:

In WA anyway, I think front plate laws go back to the 30s at the latest. I am pretty sure it is the same in other countries, where states aren't able to have such wacky individual policies. Have any states or provinces recently switched to requiring two?

That I do not know.

Nova Scotia abandoned front plates sometime in the 1990s. At the time it was touted by the gov as a cost-saving measure. Police occasionally lobby for the front plate to be restored for public safety, but that argument never seems to get much traction.

imidazol97

fintail said:

According to this, OH is #4 - of course, one can debate the methodology.

Thanks for the link. Rating based on total number of alleged traps is dependent on state's area, IMHO.

In the rating, however the number of traps is judged, based on 1000 lane miles AND over the last 5 years, Ohio is #11. And I can believe that, again primarily from the truckers' complaints. I think it was 4 years ago the interstate limit went to 70 (proves that money talks in lobbying small town legislators with stuff to give away) for trucks on most limited access divided highways in rural areas. (Note that Dayton to Cincy on I75 with 4 lanes most of the way is still 65 mph for all. But I can't remember the last time I saw a truck pulled over on that road. I think the OSP considers the 4-lane parts a 70 mph limit rather than the legislated 65, which is based on population density. IIRC).

As for reporting speed traps, our fair city has two locations reported as speed traps that aren't. LOL I've never seen anyone stopped after breezing past one location with an officer sitting, probably writing reports, at 8 over and same for the other strip of road. My son was riding with an officer a few years back when the other driver was going 52 in a 35, but down a fairly steep, short hill late night. Officer decided not to pursue with no other indication of impairment or carelessness.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

berri said:

I wonder if Illinois requires a front plate because some big political donor, or politician owns a company that makes them

Ours are made by the prison system of Ohio. Inmates are paid minimum wages to work.
"Ohio Penal Industries at the Lebanon Correctional Institution."

Illinois should have lots of inmates available to do the same, including some expoliticians.

Sorry, I mistakenly gave you an lol for that when I meant quote...at least it wasn't a flag

If you have front and back plates the prisoners would make twice as much.