Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

fintail

I call it the "Bellevue Merge". It is always seen at Bellevue Way and I90, where the typical local pile of obliviousness in a Lexus CUV or equivalent gets it up to 42 mph when merging onto a 60 mph road, then gives you the evil eye as you move past.

murphydog said:

I can't stand that. Typical on ramp speed here in the Seattle area is about 40 mph, especially when the freeway is moving along at 60ish mph... can't stand being behind them

imidazol97

I keep seeing drivers that fit @Fintail's description from Seattle area here around Dayton. They merge at less than speed limit onto interstate by a lot an just put on their turn signal, don't look in mirror and just come over.
At a particularly tightly-curved ramp (I675 to NB I75) a 40 mph curve means drivers need to speed up to fit the typical 60 mph+ in right lane of 3. Guy in a Toyota, of course, was just coming right on over. I had truck beside me on left, so I laid on the horn.

It was like he didn't even know anyone was there. I think it actually scared the old guy (I can say that because I am one LOL). He almost got his Camry Avalon scratched.

sda

I scratch my head when I am driving the speed limit or higher on the interstate and a car wants to merge into traffic from the right and wanting me to slow down and let them in rather than drop behind me and merge into traffic as there are no cars behind me. Basic merging 101, fail. Or they manage to jump in front of me only not to accelerate, which causes me to brake, sometimes sharply.

nyccarguy

People don't look anymore. They don't yield when merging. Then they blow their horn & give you the stink eye.

PF_Flyer

Well, the rats were out again this morning, this time in town! On my way ot the gym about 6:50 this morning. Dry roads, the snow hadn't started yet thank goodness. I had just passed a car on a 4 lane divided road, 50 MPH limit, going about 45 since it wasn't that far from where I turned onto the road. as I got about 4 car lengths or so past the other vehicle, I saw the deer at the curb as it started to move onto the road. Road bending to the right, so the curb on the left gave me no room that way. I considered going behind the deer, but that other car was back there. Hard on the brakes, get as close to the curb as I dared and THUMP on the right side. ALMOST got past the deer. No idea if the other vehicle avoided it. Went the last half mile to the gym and got out in the dark to look. Nothing overtly bent, but it was that way last time this happened at the end of Nov. After the gym, came out in the light and walked around. Worried I might have skipped off the cub on the left since I did hear a tire screech, but that must have been the rear wheels locking up. (ABS on the front) No tire scrub, so around to the other side. For the life of me, I cannot see ANY bent metal. Gaps all look good. Only evidence is the tuft of hair stuck in a gap at the back of the rear wheel well. I don't see any wobbles, anyone else??

PF_Flyer

Friday the 13th isn't until Friday!

dino001

fintail said:

The baddies being smart enough to hide their vile material makes the GS stuff even more questionable. Are the sickos that dumb? As so few get caught, I hate to say, they aren't.

Re: VW - didn't Harley cheat just like VW? They were able to pay a fine and move on, because Murka. Laws definitely aren't applied consistently in this burgeoning oligocracy. I think in the VW case, some egoistic regulator types were personally insulted by VW being able to fool the tests. Hell hath no fury like an untouchable Fed scorned.

Or perhaps the laws were enacted after companies like Harley were caught and ended just paying the fine? The criminalizing law is not that old. When were Harley caught?

ab348

sda said:

I scratch my head when I am driving the speed limit or higher on the interstate and a car wants to merge into traffic from the right and wanting me to slow down and let them in rather than drop behind me and merge into traffic as there are no cars behind me. Basic merging 101, fail. Or they manage to jump in front of me only not to accelerate, which causes me to brake, sometimes sharply.

Up here in Nova Scotia it is often just the opposite. Cars coming around a ramp intending to merge often slow dramatically or stop outright. Years ago I got rear-ended when the car ahead of me did just that trying to get onto a multi-lane. Drivers have no clue how to merge.

Misplaced courtesy is an epidemic here. Yesterday I witnessed a common situation that has me scratching my head. On a residential but busy street, a long line of cars was heading in one direction while someone heading the other way was waiting to make a left once an opening appeared. I saw the opening coming up behind the last vehicle in line, a GMC. Just as he approached the turning car he stopped and signaled for the guy to turn. Great, but what amazes me is how often I see that - the last vehicle in a long line signaling for a courteous left turn when there is nothing behind them. I can't get over the frequency with which I see that.

dino001

nyccarguy said:

People don't look anymore. They don't yield when merging. Then they blow their horn & give you the stink eye.

Sometimes it's necessary. The merging lanes are short, you are supposed to merge in traffic with same speed, to minimize the disruption. Where am I supposed to go, when the merge lane ends in hundred feet, I'm going 50-60 mph and the the bozo in the oncoming lane (yes, he may have a "right of way", but common decency, if not courtesy requires he slows down by 5-10 mph to let me in before I hit the traffic barrier or slam brakes and get stuck forever) acts like he doesn't see my effort. I was caught several times (you can see those drivers, men, women, older, younger) their had bolted to the neck "looking" forward, so concern about that empty space in front of them. Yes, I used my horn couple of times and gave a stink eye, AFTER several seconds of unsuccessful attempt with signals on on and lane ending fast.

Admittedly I was also on the receiving end on a guy who just had to squeeze in front of me (mind you plenty of space behind me, slow afternoon traffic), essentially playing chicken with me. I always blink, it's not worth "making the point". Don't like it but I'd rather live than teach some jackass an unspecified "lesson" that he is impervious to, anyway.

PF_Flyer

There used to be some REALLY short merging lanes on the Schuylkill Expressway in Philly back in the day. I'm not sure that there were many vehicles with adequate 0-60 times that also had the ground clearance to deal with those road surfaces

dino001

fintail said:

Smog in some Euro cities is due to commercial vehicles, which just like in the US, are held to a lesser standard in order to be "business friendly" (kind of a branch of trickle down BS that has failed in every application). Temperature inversions also play a role. You'll get smog in Paris or Athens as long as people live there - population density overrides all self-loathing greenie ideals.

The standards on commercial vehicles were also ratcheted up over time, so there should be concomitant reduction in smog. But it's clear those standards were simply unobtainable without prohibitive costs, so officials looked the other way, but had them on the books to satisfy their other constituents.

I believe the whole Euro diesel craze for passenger vehicles was misguided at the first place. They decided CO2 was a proxy of all evil in the world, so diesel was "the solution". Save the climate by giving cancer to people. They probably found out shortly after, but chose to ignore those results. It's only last couple of years when they started publishing data questioning the whole approach. Then VW scandal broke and they can no longer pretend there is no problem.

Another part was those new small diesels became so expensive to make, maintain and so fragile that many of their previous advantages were essentially wiped out. It will take a while to steer the ship and turn it around. I'm just happy Americans did not buy into that nonsense and stayed with gasoline. Looks like hybrids, with all their problems (battery production and disposal) are a better path to further reduction in emissions, but we will see that play out in next 5-10 years, when old Priuses will hit the junkyards in larger numbers.

stickguy

Still some. Hardly matters though since road is usually crawling.

suydam

Gotta be careful with statistics. The air in London is still less polluted than the air inLA, Houston, and San Jose. And European cities in general fare better than US cities.
https://www.numbeo.com/pollution/rankings.jsp

nyccarguy

@dino001 - I always move into the left of center lane (if traffic permits) regardless if there is a car trying to merge or not. I'm with you. I don't try an teach people lessons either.

28firefighter

PF_Flyer said:

There used to be some REALLY short merging lanes on the Schuylkill Expressway in Philly back in the day. I'm not sure that there were many vehicles with adequate 0-60 times that also had the ground clearance to deal with those road surfaces

The onramp to 76 West at South Street used to be one of them. Short, left lane merge. My Dad made me do that merge 4 times before I was allowed to take the drivers test. 

jmonroe

PF_Flyer said:

Friday the 13th isn't until Friday!

You're just ahead of the curve. Are you sure you set your clocks back?

Remind me not to drive the roads you use.

jmonroe

sda

The scenario I was describing was an easy merge situation. I try to be courteous and be aware of the surrounding traffic, merging lane conditions and will often slow down to let the merger in or if possible move to the left lane.

fintail

Not long ago

Harley had its machines at a certain tune for testing, then had the machines re-tuned upon delivery to deliver advertised power (and maybe the tractor-with-a-missing-spark plug feel that the brand is known for). Different route, same game, inconsistency abounds.

dino001 said:

Or perhaps the laws were enacted after companies like Harley were caught and ended just paying the fine? The criminalizing law is not that old. When were Harley caught?

sda

PF_Flyer said:

Well, the rats were out again this morning, this time in town! On my way ot the gym about 6:50 this morning. Dry roads, the snow hadn't started yet thank goodness. I had just passed a car on a 4 lane divided road, 50 MPH limit, going about 45 since it wasn't that far from where I turned onto the road. as I got about 4 car lengths or so past the other vehicle, I saw the deer at the curb as it started to move onto the road. Road bending to the right, so the curb on the left gave me no room that way. I considered going behind the deer, but that other car was back there. Hard on the brakes, get as close to the curb as I dared and THUMP on the right side. ALMOST got past the deer. No idea if the other vehicle avoided it. Went the last half mile to the gym and got out in the dark to look. Nothing overtly bent, but it was that way last time this happened at the end of Nov. After the gym, came out in the light and walked around. Worried I might have skipped off the cub on the left since I did hear a tire screech, but that must have been the rear wheels locking up. (ABS on the front) No tire scrub, so around to the other side. For the life of me, I cannot see ANY bent metal. Gaps all look good. Only evidence is the tuft of hair stuck in a gap at the back of the rear wheel well. I don't see any wobbles, anyone else??

Do you have deer treats attached to your car? They love you!

suydam

Well, you've got your deer hit for the season. Glad everyone's ok. Not sure about the deer though!

fintail

From my anecdotal experiences in Europe, older commercial vehicles are the stinkers, not modern passenger cars. Kind of like in NA. I haven't seen anything showing that standards for such vehicles were actually enforced, or that older vehicles were examined (no action taken, of course) until recently, when the bleeding hearts finally reached critical mass and the authorities took action. Holding commercial vehicles to different standards is asinine regulation to begin with, and there's a dangerous causation vs correlation game played re: smog, when cities continue to grow at high rates. It's not like gasoline vehicles don't cause health issues, even the same health issues. You won't avoid negative externalities with any kind of transport. When I look at groups like DUH being behind the movement, I have to be a little jaded.

Hybrids just offshore the pollution to someone elses's backyard, a hallmark of the guilted greenie - if they can't see it, it doesn't exist. Pay no attention to rare earths mining or disposal issues.

dino001 said:

The standards on commercial vehicles were also ratcheted up over time, so there should be concomitant reduction in smog. But it's clear those standards were simply unobtainable without prohibitive costs, so officials looked the other way, but had them on the books to satisfy their other constituents.

I believe the whole Euro diesel craze for passenger vehicles was misguided at the first place. They decided CO2 was a proxy of all evil in the world, so diesel was "the solution". Save the climate by giving cancer to people. They probably found out shortly after, but chose to ignore those results. It's only last couple of years when they started publishing data questioning the whole approach. Then VW scandal broke and they can no longer pretend there is no problem.

Another part was those new small diesels became so expensive to make, maintain and so fragile that many of their previous advantages were essentially wiped out. It will take a while to steer the ship and turn it around. I'm just happy Americans did not buy into that nonsense and stayed with gasoline. Looks like hybrids, with all their problems (battery production and disposal) are a better path to further reduction in emissions, but we will see that play out in next 5-10 years, when old Priuses will hit the junkyards in larger numbers.

jmonroe

ab348 said:

sda said:

I scratch my head when I am driving the speed limit or higher on the interstate and a car wants to merge into traffic from the right and wanting me to slow down and let them in rather than drop behind me and merge into traffic as there are no cars behind me. Basic merging 101, fail. Or they manage to jump in front of me only not to accelerate, which causes me to brake, sometimes sharply.

Up here in Nova Scotia it is often just the opposite. Cars coming around a ramp intending to merge often slow dramatically or stop outright. Years ago I got rear-ended when the car ahead of me did just that trying to get onto a multi-lane. Drivers have no clue how to merge.

Misplaced courtesy is an epidemic here. Yesterday I witnessed a common situation that has me scratching my head. On a residential but busy street, a long line of cars was heading in one direction while someone heading the other way was waiting to make a left once an opening appeared. I saw the opening coming up behind the last vehicle in line, a GMC. Just as he approached the turning car he stopped and signaled for the guy to turn. Great, but what amazes me is how often I see that - the last vehicle in a long line signaling for a courteous left turn when there is nothing behind them. I can't get over the frequency with which I see that.

When I was teaching both of my sons how to drive, I warned them repeatedly, "when you are on the road that someone wants to merge onto you can't me courteous because the car behind you is probably looking no further down the road than their hood ornament and they will rear end you for sure".

It's nice to be courteous but not when the risk is too great.

Another thing that seems to happen way to often...people pull out in front of you to make a turn when you are the last car, no one behind you but they have to make their turn NOW. I'm so used to it that it doesn't even bother me anymore. In fact, when they don't turn in front of me I have to pinch myself to make sure I'm not dreaming. More credence to the hood ornament thingy.

jmonroe

suydam

American cities are still more polluted than most European cities, so I'm not so sure sticking with gas technology has worked for us. That said, I, not a big fan of diesel.

qbrozen

PF_Flyer said:

There used to be some REALLY short merging lanes on the Schuylkill Expressway in Philly back in the day. I'm not sure that there were many vehicles with adequate 0-60 times that also had the ground clearance to deal with those road surfaces

That is exactly where I was thinking of while reading this convo. When leaving U Penn Hospital every day, I'd have to go down a short ramp merging onto that highway AND there is a cement barrier dividing the ramp from the highway NOT TO MENTION the cement barrier at the end of the ramp, leaving you no room for error, so you're clear view is maybe a couple hundred feet, at best. Stopping would be worse because you'll never get up to speed again in a reasonable amount of space. I just try to match pace as best I can and slip behind someone's bumper, crossing my fingers that there isn't a tailgater there.

PF_Flyer

suydam said:

Well, you've got your deer hit for the season. Glad everyone's ok. Not sure about the deer though!

Deer HITS... end of November on the left side and this one on the right

PF_Flyer

qbrozen said:

PF_Flyer said:

There used to be some REALLY short merging lanes on the Schuylkill Expressway in Philly back in the day. I'm not sure that there were many vehicles with adequate 0-60 times that also had the ground clearance to deal with those road surfaces

That is exactly where I was thinking of while reading this convo. When leaving U Penn Hospital every day, I'd have to go down a short ramp merging onto that highway AND there is a cement barrier dividing the ramp from the highway NOT TO MENTION the cement barrier at the end of the ramp, leaving you no room for error, so you're clear view is maybe a couple hundred feet, at best. Stopping would be worse because you'll never get up to speed again in a reasonable amount of space. I just try to match pace as best I can and slip behind someone's bumper, crossing my fingers that there isn't a tailgater there.

Best way to describe those merges... you need to be GOING.... NOW

dino001

fintail said:

From my anecdotal experiences in Europe, older commercial vehicles are the stinkers, not modern passenger cars.

When it comes to particulates, absolutely, but not necessarily for NOx gases (which are carcinogenic and contribute to smog as well). There it's actually inversely proportional to combustion efficiency, price of the higher combustion temperature. In other words, those fantastic fast and efficient diesel turbos produce more NOx, not less of them, which requires urea injection installations to arrest those gases. Those installations are expensive and high maintenance. They also adversely affect the gas mileage and performance. VW claimed they could do those without urea injection systems. We now know how. In fact those new engines were worse than the old ones on the roads for NOx - they exceeded (new) norms by 10-40 times! Once doen in the Jetta/Golf engine, the "defeat device" spread to those urea-injection based systems, as well (like Passat or 3.0 diesels), probably to improve the numbers (claim supremacy over MB or BMW systems).

dino001

suydam said:

American cities are still more polluted than most European cities, so I'm not so sure sticking with gas technology has worked for us. That said, I, not a big fan of diesel.

That may be due to all emission technologies not being updated for years/decades, plus SUV/pickup trucks being exempted from the passenger car rules, also for years/decades (because they fell into same categories as commercial vehicles). It actually created a perverse incentive for the manufacturers to market and consumer to buy those vehicles in numbers far exceeding their actual need, as their pricing and costs structure did not reflect their environmental costs in same proportion small passenger vehicles. In other words, Taurus, Impala, which would suffice for many people, were proportionally more expensive (i.e. less profitable) to make, sell, or meet standards than say Explorer or TrailBlazer for all 90s, so the system became geared to chase the size. "Everybody" won (consumers got their Excursions and Suburbans, driving mostly to work alone), except of course people who had to breath inside of those cities, but who cares about them.

I'm not huge on environmentalism, to me Sierra Club or Greenpeace are dangerously close to eco-terrorist organizations, and I certainly do not value a tree above human. That being said, American market was certainly mispricing environmental cost of those oversized passenger vehicles for far too long. Perhaps it was necessary to go through an environmentally extremist administration, like this outgoing one, to just catch up with some things. It's not a pleasant process and social costs of overreach, or worse, misapplication of priorities (like chasing global warming rather than actual pollution) can also be debilitating, but perhaps it was necessary to upset the system for a while, so we can dial it back to more reasonable levels, but higher than before. Just thinking aloud...

dino001

fintail said:

Not long ago

Thanks for the link. One big legal difference I can see, Harley still denies wrongdoing, VW flatout admitted it.

Mr_Shiftright

Strict environmental laws make more sense if you are a longterm or "big picture" type of thinker. It's hard for humans to consider consequences beyond their own lifetimes, maybe impossible for most.

oldfarmer50

suydam said:

oldfarmer50 said:

imidazol97 said:

@abacomike
Maybe this is why the Geek Squad is so friendly and helpful--they're hoping to score a $500 paycheck if they find something porno on your computer.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170106/10163236419/fbi-is-apparently-paying-geek-squad-members-to-dig-around-computers-evidence-criminal-activity.shtml
"Not necessarily a problem, considering companies performing computer/electronic device repair are legally required to report discovered child porn to law enforcement. The difference here is the paycheck. This Geek Squad member had been paid $500 for digging around in customers' computers and reporting his findings to the FBI. That changes the motivation from legal obligation to a chance to earn extra cash by digging around in files not essential to the repair work at hand."

The GeekMan says:
"So while we're here, sir, I'll just do a search for .jpg and .mp4 files on your computer while I'm working on it and maybe I can find something to earn me that bonus from the FBI."

The problem comes in when a hacker has invaded your computer and turns it into a "zombie" wherein said hacker can store child porn on your computer without your knowledge. When the malware starts glitching your operating system you take it to the geek squad and they discover the files loaded by a remote operator.

You do 20 in a federal pen while a monster goes free to abuse kids. Unless you have hundreds of thousands to hire experts to go through your hard drive line by line you could have your life ruined.

That seems just a tad paranoid. The Geek Squad guys who have come to my house to help with my TV interface and internet have been really nice.

No, not at all. It has happened. There was one case that I think was on 60 minutes where a guy had to spend $250k to have a forensic expert prove his computer had been compromised. I doubt any regular Joe could afford to prove himself innocent.

dino001

Mr_Shiftright said:

Strict environmental laws make more sense if you are a longterm or "big picture" type of thinker. It's hard for humans to consider consequences beyond their own lifetimes, maybe impossible for most.

For Wall Street two quarters is already "long term". For voters, the patience is also about two quarters and they start blaming current administrations. TV pundits would blame locust on the Southern Hemisphere on the opposing party and find problems with their opponents statement that the Sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening.

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

tjc78 said:

If you are viewing/distributing that kind of stuff, you would not only be a sick F*** but also a total and complete moron to give your computer to anyone.

The twisted individuals who do this type of thing go to many lengths to make sure their "browsing" is well hidden from others.

Back in the late '80s we had an idiot teacher at a local school who was talking teenage girls into posing nude for him(no, they weren't too sharp either). Anyway, a detective from the Sheriff's Office begins to investigate the guy and goes to his house to ask permission to search it; the teacher refuses. At that point the detective didn't have enough evidence to obtain a search warrant. Two days later the detective finally gets a warrant and searches the teacher's residence. He finds hundreds of nude photos of students going back several years and involving a couple of other schools. If the guy had destroyed the pictures the detective would never have been able to make the case.

Now that's stupid...or extra perverted. Near me the local high school resource officer (cop) was arrested for having affairs with various 16 and 17 year olds. 17 was legal but they got him for the 16 yo.

That reminds me, when I was a teen there was a local cop who would give tickets to all my hot rodding buddies. Never me though because I was a perfect driver everyone hated his guts. He got caught romancing a 15 yo and was forced to resign "under a cloud" as they use to say.

driver100

PF_Flyer said:

suydam said:

Well, you've got your deer hit for the season. Glad everyone's ok. Not sure about the deer though!

Deer HITS... end of November on the left side and this one on the right

PF_Flyer, have you heard of those deer whistles........might be a good investment.

Not sure what the chances are of being hit twice within a year, by a deer. Must have just glanced off the car for that hair to be there. Somewhere there is a deer with a bald patch.

driver100

jmonroe said:

ab348 said:

sda said:

I scratch my head when I am driving the speed limit or higher on the interstate and a car wants to merge into traffic from the right and wanting me to slow down and let them in rather than drop behind me and merge into traffic as there are no cars behind me. Basic merging 101, fail. Or they manage to jump in front of me only not to accelerate, which causes me to brake, sometimes sharply.

Up here in Nova Scotia it is often just the opposite. Cars coming around a ramp intending to merge often slow dramatically or stop outright. Years ago I got rear-ended when the car ahead of me did just that trying to get onto a multi-lane. Drivers have no clue how to merge.

Misplaced courtesy is an epidemic here. Yesterday I witnessed a common situation that has me scratching my head. On a residential but busy street, a long line of cars was heading in one direction while someone heading the other way was waiting to make a left once an opening appeared. I saw the opening coming up behind the last vehicle in line, a GMC. Just as he approached the turning car he stopped and signaled for the guy to turn. Great, but what amazes me is how often I see that - the last vehicle in a long line signaling for a courteous left turn when there is nothing behind them. I can't get over the frequency with which I see that.

Another thing that seems to happen way to often...people pull out in front of you to make a turn when you are the last car, no one behind you but they have to make their turn NOW. I'm so used to it that it doesn't even bother me anymore. In fact, when they don't turn in front of me I have to pinch myself to make sure I'm not dreaming. More credence to the hood ornament thingy.

jmonroe

JMonroe, maybe you are running yellow lights and the cars are turning left before the light goes red

PF_Flyer

A little retro TV today with a slick ride considering it was 1961

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

Strict environmental laws make more sense if you are a longterm or "big picture" type of thinker. It's hard for humans to consider consequences beyond their own lifetimes, maybe impossible for most.

Are you saying we are inferior because we just think in the here and now?

I say, man has been able to solve problems as we move along, the next generation has to make some improvements too, and they will come up with something new we haven't even thought of yet....and that is my thinking into the future!

driver100

PF_Flyer said:

A little retro TV today with a slick ride considering it was 1961

When did Buzz and Todd get that Vette?

dino001

driver100 said:

I say, man has been able to solve problems as we move along, the next generation has to make some improvements too, and they will come up with something new we haven't even thought of yet....and that is my thinking into the future!

Yes and no. Sometimes humans wait until things get unbearable or existentially threatening and then try to solve it at cost much higher than those they'd have to shoulder, if done earlier. The most tragic thing is that humans don't even learn from their (or other's) past/present, or worse, they learn wrong lessons. Aside the environment, we have things like social security, medicare, or like, when we can actually see effects of doing nothing in other countries that are "ahead" of us in terms of the demographics, but we still refuse to deal with it, essentially opting to have same damning problems they have 20-30 years from now.

As Agent "K" said in Man in Black - person is smart, people are stupid.

oldfarmer50

PF_Flyer said:

Well, the rats were out again this morning, this time in town! On my way ot the gym about 6:50 this morning. Dry roads, the snow hadn't started yet thank goodness. I had just passed a car on a 4 lane divided road, 50 MPH limit, going about 45 since it wasn't that far from where I turned onto the road. as I got about 4 car lengths or so past the other vehicle, I saw the deer at the curb as it started to move onto the road. Road bending to the right, so the curb on the left gave me no room that way. I considered going behind the deer, but that other car was back there. Hard on the brakes, get as close to the curb as I dared and THUMP on the right side. ALMOST got past the deer. No idea if the other vehicle avoided it. Went the last half mile to the gym and got out in the dark to look. Nothing overtly bent, but it was that way last time this happened at the end of Nov. After the gym, came out in the light and walked around. Worried I might have skipped off the cub on the left since I did hear a tire screech, but that must have been the rear wheels locking up. (ABS on the front) No tire scrub, so around to the other side. For the life of me, I cannot see ANY bent metal. Gaps all look good. Only evidence is the tuft of hair stuck in a gap at the back of the rear wheel well. I don't see any wobbles, anyone else??

I didn't even have to get in my car. Almost fell over one eating my bushes this morning.

oldfarmer50

PF_Flyer said:

There used to be some REALLY short merging lanes on the Schuylkill Expressway in Philly back in the day. I'm not sure that there were many vehicles with adequate 0-60 times that also had the ground clearance to deal with those road surfaces

Rt. 128 north of Boston near Beverly is like that.

houdini1

driver100 said:

berri said:

Looking at pictures from the Detroit auto show. A few personal thoughts. The 2018 Camry roofline looks like it took its cue from Mercedes. The 2018 GMC Terrain is just even more bizarre in the back quarter than a Murano. The 2018 Odyssey, well it no longer looks like the back end was tacked on from a different vehicle. Instead the middle looks like it melted.

Melted in the middle...perfect description;


That's the best design they could come up with?

I assume that they attempt to lower the back end for better visibility, but gosh, looks like they could blend it all together a little better.

driver100

dino001 said:

driver100 said:

I say, man has been able to solve problems as we move along, the next generation has to make some improvements too, and they will come up with something new we haven't even thought of yet....and that is my thinking into the future!

Yes and no. Sometimes humans wait until things get unbearable or existentially threatening and then try to solve it at cost much higher than those they'd have to shoulder, if done earlier. The most tragic thing is that humans don't even learn from their (or other's) past/present, or worse, they learn wrong lessons. Aside the environment, we have things like social security, medicare, or like, when we can actually see effects of doing nothing in other countries that are "ahead" of us in terms of the demographics, but we still refuse to deal with it, essentially opting to have same damning problems they have 20-30 years from now.

As Agent "K" said in Man in Black - person is smart, people are stupid.

I respectfully disagree. Of course we could have done more earlier, but making changes has to be balanced with reality...and one reality is cost.
It would be nice to have universal healthcare for all, pensions for all, a guaranteed income etc. But, we have come a long way over the last 50 years, and more changes will happen, but you can't do it all at one time. Don't forget, there were wars during that time and a lot of spending that could have been used for some of those projects, it it wasn't spent on things like wars and armaments....which are essential too.

houdini1

dino001 said:

Did you guys hear the FBI arrested and charged former VW's chief of compliance? The charge is conspiracy to commit fraud against the USA. I like it. Hope the guy will talk and more heads will roll. BTW, VW's CEO cancelled his appearance in Detroit. Geee, wonder why.

VW already showed middle finger to EU officials on consumer compensation and prosecutions. US law has much better teeth, as an emission defeat device is expressly illegal under criminal penalty of law and seems the FBI is making good on it. I applaud that. I may like VW vehicles (as an idea), but anybody who will think to go to such extent to defraud the public should now know they can be reached. Whether the standards are reasonable, or not (I think they are not), it's a completely different discussion. But I like the American way - once you have a law, you observe it - no buts or ifs. The law proves unreasonable - change it.

Europeans were ratcheting up their emission standards every ten years, but it proved to be purely theoretical and ineffective. The officials chose to look the other way on the enforcement (mostly due political pressures from the industry and its influence on economy and jobs) and probably would have continued if not for the Americans. Smog in their largest cities is as big, if not bigger than it was 10-15 years ago, even though they only allow latest emission standard vehicles in downtown areas. Now we know why. I'm absolutely convinced that everybody is cheating out there in their small (i.e. cheap) vehicle market (all mfrs. have diesel models Jetta's size or even smaller), perhaps also in bigger ones, too, but only VW dared to bring that "cheater tech" here. So let them have it.

The sad part of the VW scandal is that there was no need for it. Their vehicles would have been just fine and still gotten great mileage if they had not screwed with the test protocol. Amazingly stupid decision on VWs part.

dino001

I think it was all about the arbitrary price point and performance/mileage goals set the the tyrannical CEO.

houdini1

imidazol97 said:

Hacking into computers has been occuring for quite a while. The people doing it know how to leave no traces and know how to leave fake traces--fake news, e.g.. The importance of this to me is the computers in my car and how susceptible they are to intrusion. We all noticed the examples of Jeeps, IIRC, being taken over by a computer elsewhere.

Home computers are easy to hack and servers that aren't properly secured such as person or for a political business that's a party are easy to hack. The computer in our topic had the porn in a section of the computer which 99% of folks could not access because that section on the hard drive was not assigned to one of the drive letters, C:, D;, used by the operating system. Only someone with software tools that can look at the entire drive could do that and the Geek Squad guy had come prepared to snoop. Odd he would think to do that.

Sharyl Attkisson's computer was hacked including her work computer at CBS because they were checking to see what he sources were for news stories she was investigating.

One of my laptops came from friends in SC because she fell for the fake phone call from Microsoft and allowed Microsoft techs to access her computer remotely and who knows what they planted on the computer. They wanted money to repair it. Nothing was wrong. She was advised to not let the computer connect to the internet so the perps couldn't access anything or load anything more onto the computer than they already had. She bought a new laptop and I inherited the old one, which I checked and restored to factory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharyl_Attkisson

I regularly clean my computer because I get so much junk now that many pages don't allow blockers such as adblock plus. If you don't unblock their site, they won't let you browse pages on theirs. Who knows what malware they load onto my computer(s) in the background.

Twice in the last 3 or 4 months I have opened an innocent looking email and immediately a big sign pops up saying my computer has been frozen and the only thing I can do is pay these jerks to unfreeze it. Rather than doing that I just forced a shutdown and restarted and everything was fine. I haven't noticed any residual effects, but I hope they didn't leave something nasty on my computer just for spite.

dino001

driver100 said:

I respectfully disagree. Of course we could have done more earlier, but making changes has to be balanced with reality...and one reality is cost.
It would be nice to have universal healthcare for all, pensions for all, a guaranteed income etc. But, we have come a long way over the last 50 years, and more changes will happen, but you can't do it all at one time. Don't forget, there were wars during that time and a lot of spending that could have been used for some of those projects, it it wasn't spent on things like wars and armaments....which are essential too.

My point is we are facing a scheduled disaster with Social Security (later) and Medicare (sooner). Moreover, we can see that disaster playing out in Europe right now, as their demographic trends caught up with them now, whereas ours give us time. It would have been much cheaper and less painful to deal with those facts today, by doing something like pushing eligibility, slightly raising payroll tax, changing the formula, etc. (preferably in some combination). Yet, we all sit around pretending it's not going to happen. Then it will happen and what's now 8+8 percentish payroll tax will become 25+25 or so (as it is in France or Germany), eligibility will be pushed even farther, etc. Instead of doing small today, as a society, we'd rather "keep it" today, pretend it's fine, let ourselves to a delusion it's too far in the future to worry, let it run out of money completely and THEN take steps impoverishing the seniors and screwing working people, because 20 years before we didn't want to do it.

We would rather demonize those few politicians who warn about it and come with perhaps imperfect plans to solve it.

PF_Flyer

driver100 said:

PF_Flyer said:

A little retro TV today with a slick ride considering it was 1961

When did Buzz and Todd get that Vette?

Yea, how did they afford it?

They mighta been friends with Kookie, who did pretty well as a parking lot attendant!

Mr_Shiftright

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Strict environmental laws make more sense if you are a longterm or "big picture" type of thinker. It's hard for humans to consider consequences beyond their own lifetimes, maybe impossible for most.

Are you saying we are inferior because we just think in the here and now?

I say, man has been able to solve problems as we move along, the next generation has to make some improvements too, and they will come up with something new we haven't even thought of yet....and that is my thinking into the future!

No not "inferior" --it's just the way humans are. Our brains were originally wired to solve short-term solutions.

Right now, it *might* be advantageous to evolve into more longterm brains for certain problems. We can do it when we want to, and we can forget to do it, too.

So I guess an example of "short-term failure" might be that we tore up all our railway right-of-ways and built highways.

And an example of "long-term success" might be damming rivers to control floods and drought....or the Panama Canal.

driver100

Dino: I was kind of playing devil's advocate a bit. I do agree we should plan for the future as much as possible, but, we also have to be realistic. Canada is imposing carbon taxes, and has wasted enormous sums trying to get green energy such as windmills going. All that is happening is people are paying outrageous amounts for electricity, and we are going to lose our businesses and make costs higher for consumers, by implementing a carbon tax which will do little to save energy.

You can only do so much, if you try to solve all the problems of the future now, there won't be enough left to give to the future.

Mr S., I was playing devil's advocate too, and what you say is true too. But, we are developing new ways to generate electricity, new fuels for cars, we can desalinate water from the ocean, we can grow food in the desert, we can make people live longer and healthier....we can even make a can of beer with only 99 calories. I think we do both, do what we have to do now and try our best to plan for the future, it is a balancing act.

I think a big change we all need to try and prepare for is, how to make a guaranteed income a reality.