Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

roadburner

venture said:

I just read where one of the Subaru WRXs used in Baby Driver only went for a bit under $20k at auction. Another WRX from the film went for nearly $70k so my son and I didn't bother to bid. We sure wish we had now. In case you haven't seen it, here's the six minute sequence where the two cars were used. :@

Before I bought the Legacy I drove a WRX. I knew my wife would have gone nuts if I brought that home. Fun car.

I looked at a WRX STI before I bought the 2 Series; in the end my wife and I agreed it was a bit too similar to my Mazdaspeed 3- in retrospect I think I made the right call. 

benjaminh

fintail said:

I still see the Avalon as a 21st century traditional Buick (in a good way) than a real premium brand lux competitor. It is comfortable and reliable, and it is still quite homely. I don't think the current pretend-aggressive Toyota styling ethos will be considered a classic in the future.

This made me and my wife crack up. Any more of these? I actually did a test drive of a 2018 Avalon Hybrid about a month ago, and the interior and ride reminded me just a little a bit of an updated version of a Cadillac from the 1980s, maybe one kind of like this below. Actually the Avalon was a really nice ride. Better than Buick. The tech on the 2018 Avalon, however, was inferior to my 2016 Accord.

fintail

Nope, I just saw it online, although there might be other similar content out there, especially about Lexus - I know the "Predator" images were a fad when the spindle grille was introduced (the 61 Plymouth comparisons amused me more).

Somehow, that Cadillac steering wheel irks me a little, maybe the lack of symmetry for the buttons on the lower part.

benjaminh said:

This made me and my wife crack up. Any more of these? I actually did a test drive of a 2018 Avalon Hybrid about a month ago, and the interior and ride reminded me just a little a bit of an updated version of a Cadillac from the 1980s, maybe one kind of like this below. Actually the Avalon was a really nice ride. Better than Buick. The tech on the 2018 Avalon, however, was inferior to my 2016 Accord.

driver100

The steering wheel irks me because it looks like they forgot to hold the round part in place, and when someone pointed this out, they added a bar across the bottom to keep the wheel attached to the car.

tbirdmarco

 Glad you enjoyed the concourse I’ve never been one to attend one day glad you’re back home Mike who things coming along nice 

benjaminh

I'm considering getting an Accord Touring, which has "adaptive dampers." I'm guessing the system is similar to what's explained in this 1-minute Acura video. My questions for anyone who has owned or extensively driven a car with adaptive dampers are: does it really make a difference? Does it seem worth it? I sometimes like to drive a little bit aggressively around corners. Nothing extreme, just having a little fun once in a while. I assume that's the kind of situation where adaptive dampers make a difference? Oh, and on rough roads it'll smooth things out with a softer suspension—but how well does it adapt to that. And I wonder how much electricity all this takes....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr_FMmtvLjY

benjaminh

These systems have been around as options on luxury cars for a long time. This video looks like it has a c. 20 year old Lexus demonstrating well the differences...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8sVDenpPOE

driver100

benjaminh said:

I'm considering getting an Accord Touring, which has "adaptive dampers." I'm guessing the system is similar to what's explained in this 1-minute Acura video. My questions for anyone who has owned or extensively driven a car with adaptive dampers are: does it really make a difference? Does it seem worth it? I sometimes like to drive a little bit aggressively around corners. Nothing extreme, just having a little fun once in a while. I assume that's the kind of situation where adaptive dampers make a difference? Oh, and on rough roads it'll smooth things out with a softer suspension—but how well does it adapt to that. And I wonder how much electricity all this takes....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr_FMmtvLjY

Ben, Reviewers seem to like the "Adaptive Dampers" fine....no negatives that I could find. One review said:

We also wonder aloud why Sport versions, sandwiched between LX and EX, boast bigger wheels, but skip the adaptive suspension setup on Touring models that makes for a crisper ride.

Quibbles aside, the Accord will be joined early next year by an Accord Hybrid that should be the efficiency champ. It pairs a 2.0-liter inline-4 with an electric motor and more compact batteries shifted underneath the rear seat.

All in, the 2018 Accord is a sharp sedan that’s far better than it needed to be.

In other words: worth the wait.

Most reviews say the Accord and Camry are the leaders in this category. What happened to the D3 competition, that was supposed to match the furrin cars?

driver100

qbrozen said:

Feels like I stepped into the middle of retirement community car debate. ;b

Funny.....but, one day you will set aside your toys and you will be the one discussing whether to buy a Camry or a Forrester.

ab348

benjaminh said:

I'm considering getting an Accord Touring, which has "adaptive dampers." I'm guessing the system is similar to what's explained in this 1-minute Acura video. My questions for anyone who has owned or extensively driven a car with adaptive dampers are: does it really make a difference? Does it seem worth it?

The current ATS has Magnetic Ride Control which is GM-speak for that. My previous did not. It does seem to make a noticeable difference. The ride on normal "rough" roads and in normal driving is less harsh, but when driving in a spirited manner it seems more responsive and handles better. Whether it is worth it I cannot say as that would be subjective. It is certainly better from a dynamic POV.

qbrozen

benjaminh said:

I'm considering getting an Accord Touring, which has "adaptive dampers." I'm guessing the system is similar to what's explained in this 1-minute Acura video. My questions for anyone who has owned or extensively driven a car with adaptive dampers are: does it really make a difference? Does it seem worth it? I sometimes like to drive a little bit aggressively around corners. Nothing extreme, just having a little fun once in a while. I assume that's the kind of situation where adaptive dampers make a difference? Oh, and on rough roads it'll smooth things out with a softer suspension—but how well does it adapt to that. And I wonder how much electricity all this takes....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr_FMmtvLjY

Not sure what it does for a relatively light, front-drive, low-traction vehicle, but having it in my CTS convinced me it is a fantastic feature in that application.

ab348

driver100 said:

Most reviews say the Accord and Camry are the leaders in this category. What happened to the D3 competition, that was supposed to match the furrin cars?

Media bias. They always like the newest model introduced the best, plus there is a longstanding mindset among auto journos that Honda can do no wrong.

28firefighter

The Civic Si has adaptive dampers on it. Definitely a cool feature at such a low price point car.

imidazol97

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

Most reviews say the Accord and Camry are the leaders in this category. What happened to the D3 competition, that was supposed to match the furrin cars?

Media bias. They always like the newest model introduced the best, plus there is a longstanding mindset among auto journos that Honda can do no wrong.

Typical bias now. The media guys find something to dislike about one car that's not the preferred brand and harp on it. On a favored brand, the dislikes are subtly mentioned if noted at all.

I still laugh about reading in another forum here about some seats in the "favored" brands that aren't comfortable for taller folks. The driver's seat! I hadn't heard that mentioned as a topic before. But the Gen 8 Malibu had used a rear seat that has legroom but a nonstandard entry with the C-pillar and B-pillar placement, and all one heard is how awful that was that GM used that chassis for the Mallibu. Of course the front driver seat being uncomfortable doesn't matter; a rear seat which will be occupied less than .01% of a car's life unless it's kids in a family use, gets all kinds of negative press. Does this inequity sound familiar?

imidazol97

Adaptive struts are covered in my 1993 factory service manual for leSabre, Park Avenue, and Bonneville. So they were in use in production by GM them. Guessing without looking it up, I suspect they were used on the Park Avenue Ultra and Pontiac SSEI models.

I do know there were lots of people who didn't like the replacement cost when they wore at 80K or so which is typical strut life. They were replaceable with regular models with a fair degree of satisfaction. The spring rates are different, I assume.

Mr_Shiftright

stickguy said:

I am always surprised to see that Mitsu is still in the US. And that apparently people still (occasionally) buy them!

They are actually pretty durable cars.

fezo

Unusually bad publicity: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/detroit-grand-prix-start-delayed-pace-car-crash-210125968.html

Next up: VP driver training.

28firefighter

fezo said:

Unusually bad publicity: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/detroit-grand-prix-start-delayed-pace-car-crash-210125968.html

Next up: VP driver training.

"I mean to do that. Was demonstrating the safety features of our most recent Corvette."

houdini1

driver100 said:

benjaminh said:

I'm considering getting an Accord Touring, which has "adaptive dampers." I'm guessing the system is similar to what's explained in this 1-minute Acura video. My questions for anyone who has owned or extensively driven a car with adaptive dampers are: does it really make a difference? Does it seem worth it? I sometimes like to drive a little bit aggressively around corners. Nothing extreme, just having a little fun once in a while. I assume that's the kind of situation where adaptive dampers make a difference? Oh, and on rough roads it'll smooth things out with a softer suspension—but how well does it adapt to that. And I wonder how much electricity all this takes....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr_FMmtvLjY

Ben, Reviewers seem to like the "Adaptive Dampers" fine....no negatives that I could find. One review said:

We also wonder aloud why Sport versions, sandwiched between LX and EX, boast bigger wheels, but skip the adaptive suspension setup on Touring models that makes for a crisper ride.

Quibbles aside, the Accord will be joined early next year by an Accord Hybrid that should be the efficiency champ. It pairs a 2.0-liter inline-4 with an electric motor and more compact batteries shifted underneath the rear seat.

All in, the 2018 Accord is a sharp sedan that’s far better than it needed to be.

In other words: worth the wait.

Most reviews say the Accord and Camry are the leaders in this category. What happened to the D3 competition, that was supposed to match the furrin cars?

They have been missing for the last 40 years !

roadburner

imidazol97 said:

Adaptive struts are covered in my 1993 factory service manual for leSabre, Park Avenue, and Bonneville. So they were in use in production by GM them. Guessing without looking it up, I suspect they were used on the Park Avenue Ultra and Pontiac SSEI models.

I do know there were lots of people who didn't like the replacement cost when they wore at 80K or so which is typical strut life. They were replaceable with regular models with a fair degree of satisfaction. The spring rates are different, I assume.

My 1993 Pathfinder SE had adaptive struts. They worked fine. Ditto for the setup on my 2 Series, although I'd like to drive an M235i with the "base" M Sport suspension- it's not available on the six cylinder 2ers in the US. BMW developed its EDC system in the late '80s. It worked well but today if you want to replace them your primary option is to ship them to Poland(!) to have them rebuilt.

imidazol97

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Electronic_Modulated_Suspension

Looking at history for electrically/electronically- controlled struts/shocks, TEMS seems to be the first in 1983.

Active suspensions were in place earlier with Citroen widely noted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_suspension

fintail

MB had the disturbingly complex Active Body Cotnrol in production from 1999 onwards. These can sometimes go very wrong, especially in early 2000s era cars, which were not the pinnacle of the brand. They had various forms of air suspension and hydraulic suspension (not sure how "active") from 1961 onward through the 70s, also quite complex and a maintenance gamble.

fezo

"MB had the disturbingly complex Active Body Cotnrol in production from 1999 onwards. " OF COURSE they did. If you're not going to be overly complex, what's the point of an MB?..

fezo

"I'd like to drive an M235i with the "base" M Sport suspension- it's not available on the six cylinder 2ers in the US. BMW developed its EDC system in the late '80s. It worked well but today if you want to replace them your primary option is to ship them to Poland(!) to have them rebuilt."

And this surprises you how?...

fintail

Why use 5 parts when 80 will do?

fezo said:

"MB had the disturbingly complex Active Body Cotnrol in production from 1999 onwards. " OF COURSE they did. If you're not going to be overly complex, what's the point of an MB?..

driver100

fintail said:

Why use 5 parts when 80 will do?

fezo said:

"MB had the disturbingly complex Active Body Cotnrol in production from 1999 onwards. " OF COURSE they did. If you're not going to be overly complex, what's the point of an MB?..

There has to be a good reason for paying twice as much for your car

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EKQY9Gjb_3Y

fintail

Exactly, look at it this way - these cars are bargains in terms of parts and complexity.

driver100 said:

There has to be a good reason for paying twice as much for your car

driver100

I remember once driving a K-Car. It was like driving a wagon with a steering wheel. If you want a refined ride, better handling, better steering, smoother and more powerful engines, more safety, more features.....there is a cost involved. What is that old saying about, "You get what you pay for".

stickguy

Mike, MLB draft starts tonight. Let us know if your grandson gets drafted!

abacomike

stickguy said:

Mike, MLB draft starts tonight. Let us know if your grandson gets drafted!

Stick, he’s not in the draft pool because he wants to play college ball first with outstanding coaches.  He also wants to get his degree first.  But if a pro team offers him a contract, that’s when he has to make a decision.  Several pro teams are scouting him this fall to see his performance at the college level.

He graduates tomorrow morning.  He is then flying to Nebraska because the baseball coaches want to work with him for 6 weeks.  Physical fitness coach wants to train his arm muscles and posture and work on strengthening his legs and back.  The school will fly him back in July and then my son is driving him to the campus to get him settled.  Then my son flies home (leaves my grandson’s car with him for transportation) and then my son flies here with my other grandson for 4-5 days.

If anything changes, I will let you know.

graphicguy

Had the adaptive dampers on (all) my CTS. I can only compare those to the “non-magnetic ride control” on the many loaners I had. If you get spirited, they did make the car feel less “floaty” and seemed to keep the body away from leaning in turns. As far as a difference in ride? Didn’t feel much of a difference.

That said, my TLX doesn’t lean or feel floaty, either. And, it has traditional dampers.

I’m seeing a lot of the ‘19 Camry and Accords on the streets. From my eyeballs, they appear to be selling well.

I believe the only reason the Avalons, Camry and Accord are being discussed in here is because all of those cars have become some danged good they derserve a look see from those of us who like sport(ier) cars.

qbrozen

You won't convince me any of those are sporty. I tricked myself into that once and regretted it.

tjc78

My Mom had an 09 Camry SE (or whatever the sport trim was) All bark, no bite. 

abacomike

I’m taking that driving improvement course offered by AARP.  $20 for non-AARP members.  3 hours a day for 2 days.  It’s good for 3 years as a discount on your auto insurance.  For me, it saves me $160 a year - definitely worth the $20 and 5-6 hours of course time.

My condo community offers it once a month and it’s 1/2 Block from my Apt.

abacomike

Talk about heat, it was 96 degrees yesterday at my condo community and it may get to 98 today.  Add high humidity to that and you have jungle weather. Summer has arrived along with afternoon thunder storms every day.

My brother and his SO rented a cabin just outside of Asheville, NC.  Had him on FaceTime yesterday and it was 72 degrees at 1:00 PM.  

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

benjaminh said:

I'm considering getting an Accord Touring, which has "adaptive dampers." I'm guessing the system is similar to what's explained in this 1-minute Acura video. My questions for anyone who has owned or extensively driven a car with adaptive dampers are: does it really make a difference? Does it seem worth it? I sometimes like to drive a little bit aggressively around corners. Nothing extreme, just having a little fun once in a while. I assume that's the kind of situation where adaptive dampers make a difference? Oh, and on rough roads it'll smooth things out with a softer suspension—but how well does it adapt to that. And I wonder how much electricity all this takes....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr_FMmtvLjY

Ben, Reviewers seem to like the "Adaptive Dampers" fine....no negatives that I could find. One review said:

We also wonder aloud why Sport versions, sandwiched between LX and EX, boast bigger wheels, but skip the adaptive suspension setup on Touring models that makes for a crisper ride.

Quibbles aside, the Accord will be joined early next year by an Accord Hybrid that should be the efficiency champ. It pairs a 2.0-liter inline-4 with an electric motor and more compact batteries shifted underneath the rear seat.

All in, the 2018 Accord is a sharp sedan that’s far better than it needed to be.

In other words: worth the wait.

Most reviews say the Accord and Camry are the leaders in this category. What happened to the D3 competition, that was supposed to match the furrin cars?

Other than Caddy Chevy had that on the Camaro and Ford offered it on Mustang for 2018. Now you got me wanting to trade up.

stickguy

I absolutely love the Asheville area. To me, that is the perfect place to move to. I would go in a heartbeat if my wife wasn't obsessed with staying closer to her family up near Old Farmer land. Personally, I think they should move too, but getting no traction on that.

ab348

I went to Central Florida (the bustling metropolis of Deland!) on business in June once. Every time you walked outside it was like going into a steam room. All of us Canadians had the AC in our hotel rooms set to 65 degrees I think. We were all baffled at first to see the Deland locals wearing cotton undershirts under their business attire. Up here we tend to do that in the winter to stay warm, but they did it to soak up the sweat. Things you learn!!

stickguy

just read car and driver last night. They had a quick test of a Camry XSE V6. Overall, quite complimentary on the upgrades to styling and interior. And it was fast. Got pricey though with options. But biggest drawback, dynamically the car was overwhelmed by the engine. Suspension, tires, brakes all not up to the task. So fine if you putt around, but mostly, need to stick with the 4 banger too!

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

I remember once driving a K-Car. It was like driving a wagon with a steering wheel. If you want a refined ride, better handling, better steering, smoother and more powerful engines, more safety, more features.....there is a cost involved. What is that old saying about, "You get what you pay for".

My son bought a K-car for 300 bucks that had no floor. Got 10,000 miles out of it before he wrecked it. Junked it for $100. On a per mile cost basis that's better service than any MB.

abacomike

Talk about putting around, one of the major reasons I went with the S450 over the S560 was the fact that an 8 cylinder engine was totally unnecessary in the S Class.  There are absolutely no differences, including options, except for the V6 biturbo and the V8 biturbo.

0-60 with the V6 biturbo is 5,3 seconds.  How much faster does anyone need to get to 60 mph?  Fuel economy is another factor - I am averaging 25 mpg (31.5 mpg on the interstate) while the V8 sucks gas averaging 4-5 mpg less.

I just turned 5000 miles on the car and it is 7 months old.  Still rides like I got the car yesterday.

abacomike

stickguy said:

just read car and driver last night. They had a quick test of a Camry XSE V6. Overall, quite complimentary on the upgrades to styling and interior. And it was fast. Got pricey though with options. But biggest drawback, dynamically the car was overwhelmed by the engine. Suspension, tires, brakes all not up to the task. So fine if you putt around, but mostly, need to stick with the 4 banger too!

I really like the new Camry’s styling, with the exception of the front grillework.  Toyota has really put a lot of emphasis on styling throughout their line.

bwia

*MARRIAGE SOFTWARE....*

A young husband wrote this to a *Systems Analyst -*

_(Marriage Software Div);_

*Dear Systems Analyst,*

I am desperate for some help! I recently upgraded my program from *Girlfriend 7.0* to *Wife 1.0* and found that the new program began unexpected _Child Processing_ and also took up a lot of space and valuable resources. This wasn't mentioned in the _product brochure._ 

In addition *Wife 1.0* installs itself into all other programs and launches during systems initialization and then it monitors all other system activities.

Applications such as *"Boys' Night out 2.5"* and *"Golf 5.3"* no longer run, and crashes the system whenever selected.

 Attempting to operate selected *"Soccer 6.3"* always fails and *"Shopping 7.1"* runs instead. 

I cannot seem to keep *Wife 1.0* in the background whilst attempting to run any of my _favorite applications._ Be it online or offline.

 .

I am thinking of going back to *"Girlfriend 7.0"*, but uninstall doesn't work on this program. Can you please help?

_.... The Systems Analyst replied:_

*Dear Customer,*

This is a very common problem resulting from a basic misunderstanding of the functions of the *Wife 1.0 program.* 

Many customers upgrade from _Girlfriend 7.0_ to _Wife 1.0_ thinking that _Wife 1.0_ is merely a *UTILITY AND ENTERTAINMENT PROGRAM.*

 Actually, *Wife 1.0* is an _OPERATING SYSTEM_ designed by its *Creator* to run everything on your current platform.

You are unlikely to be able to purge *Wife 1.0* and still convert back to _Girlfriend 7.0_, as *Wife 1.0* was not designed to do this and it is impossible to _uninstall, delete or purge the program files from the System once it is installed._

Some people have tried to install _Girlfriend 8.0 or Wife 2.0_ but have ended up with even more problems. *_(See Manual under Alimony/Child Support and Solicitors' Fees)._*

Having *Wife 1.0* installed, I recommend you keep it Installed and deal with the difficulties as best as you can. 

When any faults or problems occur, whatever you think has caused them, you must run the.........

*C:\ APOLOGIZE\ FORGIVE ME.EXE* Program and avoid attempting to use the _*Esc-Key_ for it will freeze the entire system.

It may be necessary to run *C:\ APOLOGIZE\ FORGIVE ME.EXE* a number of times, and eventually hope that the operating system will return to normal.

*Wife 1.0,* although a very high maintenance programme, can be very rewarding.

To get the most out of it, consider buying additional Software such as *"Flowers 2.0"* and *"Chocolates 5.0"* or *"HUGS\ KISSES 6.0"* or *"TENDERNESS\ UNDERSTANDING 10.0"* or *"even Eating Out Without the Kids 7.2.1"* _(if Child processing has already started)._

*DO NOT* under any circumstances install *"Secretary 2.1"* _(Short Skirt Version)_ or *"One Nightstand 3.2"* _(Any Mood Version)_, as this is not a supported Application for *Wife 1.0* and the system will almost certainly *CRASH*.

*BEST WISHES!*

Yours,"

Systems Analyst.

*#To all husbands/ future husbands*

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

Talk about heat, it was 96 degrees yesterday at my condo community and it may get to 98 today.  Add high humidity to that and you have jungle weather. Summer has arrived along with afternoon thunder storms every day.

My brother and his SO rented a cabin just outside of Asheville, NC.  Had him on FaceTime yesterday and it was 72 degrees at 1:00 PM.  

It was in the low 50s all day in upstate NY yesterday, in the upper 40s where I was driving in VT. Had to turn on the heat and defrosters.

Wanna trade?

houdini1

As far as car preferences go, it is simply different strokes for different folks, and if not for Honda and Toyota, Detroit would still be churning out K-cars and selling them for $50 grand.

nyccarguy

houdini1 said:

As far as car preferences go, it is simply different strokes for different folks, and if not for Honda and Toyota, Detroit would still be churning out K-cars and selling them for $50 grand.

Wait for the hipsters to get a hold of a "mint condition" K-Car.

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

It was in the low 50s all day in upstate NY yesterday, in the upper 40s where I was driving in VT. Had to turn on the heat and defrosters.

Wanna trade?

We had a freeze in Nova Scotia Sunday night with temps in low-lying areas a few degrees below freezing. It has devastated farmers of many fruit and veg products and has hit our wine industry very hard, unfortunately. Sad.

imidazol97

abacomike said:

Toyota has really put a lot of emphasis on styling throughout their line.

...except for the front ends on the Camry and Lexi models.

stickguy

Not all styling is attractive.