Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

stickguy

cute ad. and the new Forte is a nice looking car!

cdnpinhead

I'm fairly confident that the majority of people driving cars today couldn't tell the difference if only one wheel were driven, never mind on which axle.

So long as it looks swoopy enough and has tons of electronics and a non-black interior, they'll sell (or, more likely lease) them from hell to breakfast.

Mr_Shiftright

Once in a while we've actually had that question in Forums: "How can I tell if my car is FWD or RWD?"

qbrozen

cdnpinhead said:

I'm fairly confident that the majority of people driving cars today couldn't tell the difference if only one wheel were driven, never mind on which axle.

So long as it looks swoopy enough and has tons of electronics and a non-black interior, they'll sell (or, more likely lease) them from hell to breakfast.

considering how many damned cars have black interiors, I'm pretty sure even that is not a prerequisite.

Mr_Shiftright

Buick's New and Good-Looking GS Gets a MEH rating

roadburner

Mr_Shiftright said:

Buick's New and Good-Looking GS Gets a MEH rating

It is attractive; Too bad the overall performance isn't there, a fourteen second quarter isn't very impressive and every report on handling has been underwhelming- and all for "just" $40,000...

Mr_Shiftright

No excuse for this, really. It has enough HP to be entertaining.

stickguy

sounds like something I might like. Sucker for hatches of this style. I can take my chances with a 14 second quarter. Super comfy seats are a big plus.

ab348

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Buick's New and Good-Looking GS Gets a MEH rating

It is attractive; Too bad the overall performance isn't there, a fourteen second quarter isn't very impressive and every report on handling has been underwhelming- and all for "just" $40,000...

I do not find it attractive at all. The previous version was far better looking IMO, and inside, this one is not good at all. As a GM fan this car is a huge disappointment. Top that off with performance that is mid-pack at best and I suspect the model may not make it to the end of its 4-year production contract with PSA at the former GM plant in Russelsheim, at least for North American markets.

benjaminh

After a week apart I got to drive my new TLX for more than an hour today, all in Sport mode, which is the way to go for the 2.4. One highway run of c.70 mph with AC had a car calculated 36.5 mpg. If that's not a fluke, and if the car's mpg calculator is accurate (the one on my Accord was) then the highway mpg is very close to what I got in the 2016 Accord. Still finding all sorts of little quality touches, such as the nice feeling carpet, and the hidden storage area in the trunk (no spare tire, just fix a flat). I'd rather have a tire, I think, but the honest truth is that I haven't changed a tire since about 1995. Since then I've always let AAA do it, or tow it, and I haven't had any regrets.

henryn

benjaminh said:

Still finding all sorts of little quality touches, such as the nice feeling carpet, and the hidden storage area in the trunk (no spare tire, just fix a flat). I'd rather have a tire, I think, but the honest truth is that I haven't changed a tire since about 1995. Since then I've always let AAA do it, or tow it, and I haven't had any regrets.

It has been several years since I last used a spare tire. And then, bang, last Saturday, blow out on my minivan. I hit something out on the freeway, never saw what it was. My wife (now ex) used AAA and other "road service" (USAA insurance) several times, and the average wait was 1 to 2 hours.

It took me about 15 minutes to get back on the road Saturday, and I thought that was rather long actually. Unfamiliarity with the mid-mounted spare, I actually had to dig out the owner's manual. IT guys really hate to RTFM.

Fix a flat doesn't cut it, in my opinion. This incident Saturday, there was a hole in the sidewall. I don't think any amount of "goop" would have done the trick.

I see now where some new cars offer a spare tire as an "optional, extra cost item". Is that your situation, @benjaminh ? If so, I would cough up the bucks.

YMMV

stickguy

Henry, I am with you. No spare tire is a hot button issue. Last blow out I had was at night, on a holiday, in the middle of nowhere. At least with the donut on I could get to a hotel, then next day find a tire store. The tire was shredded so yeah, no can of fix a flat was helping.

I believe the TLX (at least prior to 2018 redesign) had a spare as an option. The ILX definitely did. Heck, if you pulled out the tray insert, the bracket with the screw hole to attach the tire bold was already there. And at one point they listed it as an accessory option on the build it page.

the new RDX at least still has a spare. I would have to check a TLX to see if the tire well is still there.

benjaminh

@henryn : Good points! I might at some point regret this design. We'll see. AAA response time in my area is usually about 15 minutes, although no doubt that varies. I changed maybe 4 tires between 1980 and 1995, and each time found it a challenging and annoying job. I don't really want to do it again. Because of good luck, good maintenance, and good tires, somehow I don't recall that we've had a flat in the last 7 or 8 years in either my wife's car or my car. My wife's new CR-V has a full-size spare, which is something I haven't seen in a long time. Interesting that our two new cars in their own ways go to extremes on this. @stickguy it's not clear to me if a spare would even fit in the TLX. Maybe those plastic trays can be removed? Not sure. Honestly it doesn't look like it. They seem well built and built-in.

Anyway, you get a pressure sensor on each tire on the TLX. And here's a pic of some of the controls and buttons that are better than on my wife's CR-V.

Michaell

I noticed the lack of a spare tire on my test drive of the CPO 2015 TLX last weekend. I'm very much on the fence about this issue.

If it's an option, I wonder if / where / how much it would cost to obtain.

stickguy

the plastic insert should pop out. I know for sure in the ILX it did.

benjaminh

Almost everything about the TLX seems to be significantly higher in quality than an Accord, and often that higher quality comes with some added weight. I assume some designers several years ago said, more or less: here's a way we can save c.40 pounds all at once. And how many people really change their own tires at this point?

Anyway, a few more pix of the new TLX, and a few little observations....The rear windows go completely into rear doors, and that didn't even quite happen with my Accord. Seems to be c. 5 LEDs in the side mirror turn signals compared to I think one with an Accord, trunk hinges are covered and protected, etc. The interior plastic wood or plood actually seems to be something like fake marble, which my son instantly named "plarble" lol! I had the owner's manual out because I was trying to figure out how to program the built-in garage door opener. Ultimately my son had to help me, because it involved him hitting a button actually on the garage door opener itself while I simultaneously pressed and held the Hondalink button.

sda

Keep the comparison review of the Accord/TLX/CR-V coming! Speaking of which, do you find the TLX to be significantly quieter than the Accord and how so? I do believe you can run regular gas without damage in the TLX without too much performance degradation...if Premium gas is recommended and not required.

stickguy

Premium is recommended in my RDX too, but runs fine on regular. The engine is identical best as I can tell to the Pilot, Accord, etc. I think it even has the same code designation. Same compression ratio, even same power output. The TLX, not sure how much different it is than the Accord motor. Odds are it is fine on regular but might cut performance slightly but only at higher revs.

The new RDX is pretty much a 2.0T Accord motor too.

stickguy

with tires, it is not just a matter of not wanting to change your own. You can still call AAA. The difference is, if you have a spare, they put it on and you are on your way. No spare, and you are riding in the front seat of a tow truck, or standing on the side of the road waiting for an Uber, while you hope that the tow truck drops your car someplace that can find a tire right away. Just hope you don't get a flat when they are closed!

kyfdx

My wife's car doesn't have a spare.. or, the one before this one.. Since 2013, no issues.

I don't worry about it... not my car.

benjaminh

sda said:

Keep the comparison review of the Accord/TLX/CR-V coming! Speaking of which, do you find the TLX to be significantly quieter than the Accord and how so? I do believe you can run regular gas without damage in the TLX without too much performance degradation...if Premium gas is recommended and not required.

Yes, the TLX is quieter than our 2013 and 2016 Accords. This is esp. noticeable over slightly rougher pavement where we got a fair amount of tire/road noise in the Accords. This is muted with the TLX. Starting in 2018 Honda has started using some of the noise reduction engineering adapted from the TLX for the Accord. My guess is that there will probably still be a difference with the TLX even compared to the new generation of Accord, but not as much.

And tonight, I'll confess, I took another pleasure cruise in the TLX—although first I had to go to the gas station to get my first fill-up of premium. And yes, they told me at the Acura dealer that using regular won't hurt your engine, but honestly why would you sacrifice c. 20 horsepower with a car that's designed to use every horse it has. My feeling is that if you aren't going to put premium in a premium car when it's recommended that maybe you should get something else?

Anyway, the lower mpg of 22 was my c. 3 miles of stop and go traffic to the Costco gas station for my premium fill up.

And don't get excited about that upper mpg of 40. I think it's valid (although I need to check with this tank how accurate the mpg meter is), but this was a highway run of about 20 miles with light traffic going an almost steady c. 60-62 mph, although with the AC on fairly high and the car in Sport mode. This was on a series of 55 mph freeways around Louisville. So it's seemingly good mpg, but the reality is I'm usually going more like c.72 mph on 70 mph freeways back and forth between Louisville and Lexington. But if it's accurate, 40 mpg is about as high as I would have gotten in my Accord for this run.



@sda : You might check out a TLX, esp. if you can find one of the last of the 2018s. For a last generation Accord owner imho the TLX Tech a big upgrade, really a wow. I'm still getting lots of smiles from the four wheel steering. And the ELS stereo is really great for listening to SiriusXM and CDs.

stickguy

I am planning to stop at the Acura dealer Saturday afternoon, for their "summer event". Free lunch and a test drive, what's not to love? Will give the wife a chance to scope and (and hopefully drive) an RDX, and will also spend some time in a TLX too (won't need to drive that one).

benjaminh

That new 2019 RDX really is a knock out. But you'll pay a lot at this point for one, unless you're getting the base model. One big advantage of the TLX, as I know I've already said in some detail, is that you can potentially lease one for significantly less than a comparable Accord.

roadburner

kyfdx said:

My wife's car doesn't have a spare.. or, the one before this one.. Since 2013, no issues.

I don't worry about it... not my car.

No spare in the i3 or 2er; the ti has a spare that has never been used in the 23 years I've owned the car.

stickguy

oh, we would not be buying one now. Just deciding if we want to put it on the wish list and plan around it. I would be quite happy with a much more affordable TLX too.

Either car would have to be a tech package. That part is non-negotiable. But I don't need the advance package.

henryn

My worst tire changing experience was on my 2000 F250 diesel, the one I used to pull the 5th wheel travel trailer. I was cruising down Interstate 10 and the right rear tire just let go. This was well out in the country, on the approach to the Brazos River bridge, actually. The break down lane was small, and the dropoff was pretty steep. That F250 was very big, and very heavy, and it came with a tiny bottle jack. I wasn’t really sure it was going to lift the truck, but it did. Precarious is a word that comes to mind for that huge truck perched in the air on that tiny bottle jack.

I got the lug nuts off, but the aluminum wheel had welded itself to the hub. I looked around, found a big chunk of concrete, and used that to try and break the wheel loose. I’m laying under the truck, whacking the back side of the wheel with the concrete chunk, and an 18 wheel tractor trailer comes whizzing by at 80 mph. Sliding by my parked, jacked up truck by about 18 inches, maybe less. So naturally the truck sways back and forth on that tiny bottle jack and I’m thinking, “What a way to die. Crushed under a damned truck trying to fix a flat tire.”

There was another occasion. Not dangerous, but embarrassing. I was pulling the 5th wheel and had a blow out. If you’ve ever owned a travel trailer, then you will already know that they tend to eat tires. I looked around for a good place to get off the road, and spotted some kind of business with a big empty parking lot and pulled in. I’m jacking up the travel trailer (I always carried a really good jack with that thing), and my wife comes around and says, “You realize this is a funeral home, right?”

I look around, and she’s right, it’s a funeral home. I tell her it doesn’t matter, no one is there. Except … They obviously had a service of some kind scheduled, and the parking lot starts filling up. I swear it didn’t take me more than 10 minutes to swap out that tire, but in that 10 minutes the parking lot went from empty to full. And every single person who came in was looking at me like I was transgressing against their dead relative.

Some days …

benjaminh

henryn said:

My worst tire changing experience was on my 2000 F250 diesel, the one I used to pull the 5th wheel travel trailer. I was cruising down Interstate 10 and the right rear tire just let go. This was well out in the country, on the approach to the Brazos River bridge, actually. The break down lane was small, and the dropoff was pretty steep. That F250 was very big, and very heavy, and it came with a tiny bottle jack. I wasn’t really sure it was going to lift the truck, but it did. Precarious is a word that comes to mind for that huge truck perched in the air on that tiny bottle jack.

I got the lug nuts off, but the aluminum wheel had welded itself to the hub. I looked around, found a big chunk of concrete, and used that to try and break the wheel loose. I’m laying under the truck, whacking the back side of the wheel with the concrete chunk, and an 18 wheel tractor trailer comes whizzing by at 80 mph....

Yeah, stuff like this is why I'm never going to bother with changing a tire ever again.

stickguy

I would prefer not to either. The AAA guy can do that. Just have to have the tire on hand to put on!

benjaminh

stickguy said:

I would prefer not to either. The AAA guy can do that. Just have to have the tire on hand to put on!

I'll just live on the wild side when it comes to spare tires (or lack) and see what happens. No doubt I'll let you know and cry uncle if somehow disaster strikes. But my guess is that the odds of a flat are low on the roads I drive. My second guess is that if I get one the fix-a-flat might work to get me to the gas station. My third guess is that even if a AAA tow truck has to take me to the gas station I'll be ok with it, since I've done that before a few times and it's not a big deal imho. Other things being equal I'd take a spare, but given how much I like almost everything else about the TLX I doubt I'll miss it much. Again, we'll see. I might end up eating my words....

ab348

Interesting link from KBB that popped up in my online reading this AM. Long-term evaluation notes about their TLX:

https://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/2018-acura-tlx-a-spec-long-term-review/2100005090/?psid=cstw1&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

stickguy

He certainly seems To be quite picky. And if you want a 200k Porsche, buy one!

benjaminh

@ab348 : Any chance you'd post some pics of your ATS? I like the looks of those but I've never been in one....

benjaminh

Today I went with my TLX and my folding bike to a park on the outskirts of town called—believe it or not—Pope Lick Park. About a 20 minute drive each way, 60-70 mph on the highway, and then some two lane roads. Got about 35 mpg on the little trip with ac on the whole way, which seemed pretty good. We have good parks here in Louisville, and some have very nice bike paths. In fact, I think the "Louisville Loop" in its various places is one of the better urban/rural bike paths in the country. Anyway, here's one of my uses of my entry-level luxury sedan for today—and in the last pic you can see my ugly mug to see the face of the guy who has been bothering you off and on for almost 20 years here. By the way, the volume dial on the steering wheel of the TLX has been copied for the 2018 Accord. But having driven both, I can say that although they look almost the same the Accord's is a cheap feeling piece of hard plastic, while the TLX's is a rubberized dial that feels and works better.

ab348

benjaminh said:

@ab348 : Any chance you'd post some pics of your ATS? I like the looks of those but I've never been in one....

Sure thing. Most of these were taken shortly after delivery.
















I just realized I don't have engine compartment or trunk pics. I'll have to get on that.

kyfdx

I love the interior... looks like you are missing a pedal.

benjaminh

@ab348 : Nice car! Hate to admit it, but your interior seems slightly fancier than my new TLX Tech. Thanks for sharing. What kind of mpg are you getting? You have the performance 3.6? No doubt you would totally smoke me 0-60. I think my 0-60 with my 4-cylinder TLX is c. 7.5, while yours is maybe c.6.5?

benjaminh

Hope some other "entry level luxury-sport" owners will share their pix too.++

qbrozen

benjaminh said:

@ab348 : Nice car! Hate to admit it, but your interior seems slightly fancier than my new TLX Tech. Thanks for sharing. What kind of mpg are you getting? You have the performance 3.6? No doubt you would totally smoke me 0-60. I think my 0-60 with my 4-cylinder TLX is c. 7.5, while yours is maybe c.6.5?

If its the 3.6, it should be way better than 6.5. I think it may be the 2.0T, unless I'm getting my ATS owners mixed up.

EDIT: just looked it up and both versions are mid 5s, with the v6 just a couple of tenths quicker

pensfan83

I love the red...it goes so good with the interior colors.

ab348

Mine is a RWD "Premium Performance" with the 3.6. The 0-60 time is supposedly mid-5s. All I know is that it is really quick, especially in the midrange. Haven't bothered with gas mileage calculations yet. I haven't done a lot of highway driving with it so the computer numbers it displays would likely be pretty dismal (I haven't looked at it recently). It is just a super-fun car to drive. I wish the interior had a little less black and a little more Kona Brown, but I'm glad it isn't all black.

benjaminh

My mpg on my big commute to get my son—Louisville to Lexington and back—was one of my excuses for getting the new TLX. I thought I'd take a significant mpg hit for moving from an Accord to an Acura, but if the mpg meter on the new TLX is accurate the mpg is very similar. I got c.36 mpg on the way over and c.38 mpg on the way back. This is a c.80 mile drive with AC on going c.70-75 mph. I know I'm getting premium gas instead of regular, but I'm still impressed that mpg is the same as a CVT car that weighs c.200 lbs less....

benjaminh

@ab348 : Your seats in your ATS look really comfortable. ++ And if you get the chance, I would be interested to see what your engine compartment looks like.

benjaminh

With still more than half a tank of gas in my new TLX curiosity got the better of me on the mpg front, and I decided to fill it up so that I could do a manual calculation to check against the car's trip calculator. I drove 225 miles with 6.4 gallons, which gives an average of 35.15 mpg for c. 85% highway driving—which is quite good. The only problem is that my trip computer said that I got 36.2 mpg for those 225 miles. Hmmm. I thought the trip computer's mpg numbers, which were seemingly slightly better than my Accord's, were maybe a little too good to be true. But the real number is still better than I expected, esp. given that the EPA highway rating on the TLX 2.4 is 33.

My son the engineer/computer coder said that my method of manually checking the mpg could have a margin of error as well. Who is to say that the shut of works exactly the same each time, or that you have the filler in the same amount? I guess he has a point? In any case, I'll try to remember to test it again manually on the next tank and see what I get.

Bottom line is that I'm still happy with the mpg of the TLX 2.4. On the highway seems just as good as an Accord 2.4.

cdnpinhead

I can tell you that my TSX mpg computer averages about 5% high over 142K miles, quite consistently. Every other readout that I can check (speed, miles, temp, etc.) are dead on. It never reads low, just varying degrees of high. The marketing guys won this one -- a tiny percentage of people hand-calculate MPG.

roadburner

On some BMWs you can get into a service menu that lets you adjust the OBC mpg calculation. Funny thing, every BMW I've owned with an OBC has tended to be 5% optimistic. Ditto for the Mini. However, the 2 Series OBC is usually 8% pessimistic. Go figure...

benjaminh

Brought the folding bike in my TLX to another nice park today. The twisty rural roads are fun even when following the speed limit (which I pretty much did). The auto-dimming mirror in this car has a rather thin frame. The Acura Link button lets you call a concierge for restaurant recommendations and reservations, theater/concert tix, etc, and I'm subscribed to it for free for a certain number of months—I forget how many. I think I need to take a trip and use it. The other button is similar to an Onstar emergency button, I guess. My Honda Accord didn't have either of these buttons. Below a few pix of the strangely idyllic bike paths around Louisville. Being from California, I still marvel at the lack of crowds in some places here even after 20 years....

benjaminh

TLX pix—engine compartment edition. @sda : You might be interested to compare your Accord's engine compartment to the TLX. Right away I noticed the battery looked to be almost twice the size of the one in my Accord. Two fans, no prop rod for hood, etc. But it misses a feature that my 1988 Oldsmobile 98 had—an under hood light lol!

sda

The TLX is certainly dressed up under hood.  You got my curiosity about the radiator fans.  The Accord has two as well. They look very similar overall.

ab348

To take my mind off other events, I got some pics of the ATS engine and trunk compartment today.

Mostly what you see under the hood is the engine cover, not much else.





The trunk is nicely finished although not huge. The battery is in the compartment on the left side.

cdnpinhead

benjaminh said:

But it misses a feature that my 1988 Oldsmobile 98 had—an under hood light lol!

Haven't you heard? Almost no one looks under the hood in the daylight these days, let alone at night. That's part of how BMW got away with eliminating the dipstick lo these many years ago.